The Atheist Tradition of Ruining America

[pimpdave]

It's possible that Tea Party Persecution Squads are burning down places where atheists congregate, such as non-christian bookstores or other places where things like rational thought and/or science exist.

[tkr4lf]

Where the hell is Chang at? I thought for sure I'd see a post from him on this topic.

Been away for a few days.I just can't believe figures like 2% for the number of atheists in the US.Surely Scientologists,Taoists,Buddhists,etc alone would account for that many alone.As for non religious atheists,how many are willing to admit it in a country where there is still a level of persecution/ discrimination that is inconceivable in any other first world country?This is probably changing quite rapidly but still is a major problem..

Woah... atheists are persecuted and discriminated against? Where in the hell have I been?

Is it like pre-Civil Rights Act? Are there "God-fearing folks only" signs everywhere? I'll look for those signs next time I go out.

It's nothing like that, but discrimination does exist.

When I was taking court mandated classes for drug rehabilitation, a discussion of the twelve step program and religion came up. I broke with my usual MO of only divulging my religious beliefs when either asked or challenged, and spoke to the group at length about my problems with the twelve step program and its religious nature, etc. I got some looks, I can say that much.

After that, nobody really spoke to me much. Apparently, when there are a room full of christians (well, as christian as a bunch of crack heads, pot heads, alcoholics, drug dealers, etc. can be) and you are the lone atheist who has professed his beliefs, they don't quite do the Christ-like thing, instead they prefer to ignore you, pretend your opinions don't count, that you are evil, something like that. For some reason a large amount of christians think that without a god, a person must be moral-less. Of course, that's not true, but to them it is. So, I got treated like crap the rest of the time I was enrolled in those classes. Good fun.

TL;DR: No, atheists don't have it as bad as, say, blacks or gays, but, yes, we're still discriminated against. (Wow...just imagine being a black, gay, atheist. You're royally fucked.)

[thegreekdog]

By that logic, I'm also discriminated against in some cases for being Catholic... and Greek... and Italian... and having a goatee... and being overweight. It's a shitty story dude, and I'm sorry about that, but, well...

There's discrimination and there's malicious discrimination that has a large effect on a person's ability to succeed. In sum... no whining about being an atheist is permitted unless you can't eat in a restaurant or have a history of being enslaved and persecuted mercilessly with the okay of a government.

[natty dread]

In sum... no whining about being an atheist is permitted unless you can't eat in a restaurant or have a history of being enslaved and persecuted mercilessly with the okay of a government.

In sum, your argument is "someone else is getting discriminated against worse so your discrimination doesn't count".

[thegreekdog]

In sum... no whining about being an atheist is permitted unless you can't eat in a restaurant or have a history of being enslaved and persecuted mercilessly with the okay of a government.

In sum, your argument is "someone else is getting discriminated against worse so your discrimination doesn't count".

Yes. I'm under the impression that you agree since I believe you've made similar arguments in the past.

[BigBallinStalin]

But, TGD, at movie theaters, there's price discrimination! The elderly, the students, and sometimes service members all get discounts, while the honest, hard-working folk are forced to pay a higher price! DISCRIMINATION!!!

[thegreekdog]

But, TGD, at movie theaters, there's price discrimination! The elderly, the students, and sometimes service members all get discounts, while the honest, hard-working folk are forced to pay a higher price! DISCRIMINATION!!!

There's also discrimination in the United States against Christians, white people, and men. I've read numerous posts from atheists indicating the ridiculousness of people pointing out the negative effects of these types of discrimination. I'm pretty sure natty dread has indicated the same in the past (in response to a Phatscotty or Viperoverlord or Night Strike post). I just thought he was being consistent... unless of course it's only discrimination if he agrees with it... which, you know, would be shocking since we've never seen that before.

[oss spy]

Person 1: People discriminate against me!
Person 2: I'm Jewish! My people were in the Holocaust! You have nothing to complain about!

You see, I myself am atheist. I'm also Polish, Dutch, and German.

From what TGD said, here's what I have learned about myself:

1. TGD has nothing to complain about because Poles were killed during the Holocaust by Germans.
2. TGD has nothing to complain about because Holland was conquered by Germans.
3. I'm an awful person because my ancestors were conquering and killing my ancestors.

My life is fucked up. I demand restitutions.

[pimpdave]

Yo, your German ancestors were conquered and killed by Romans too, bro. So like, you're a victim all three ways, dude.

I also heard your ancestors got beat hard by Napoleon. How's that make you feel?

[oss spy]

Yo, your German ancestors were conquered and killed by Romans too, bro. So like, you're a victim all three ways, dude.

I also heard your ancestors got beat hard by Napoleon. How's that make you feel?

I got back at both of them in WWII, don't worry.

[pimpdave]

HOW DARE YOU VICTIMIZE THE PEOPLE OF FRANCE LIKE THAT YOU MONSTER

[Juan_Bottom]

I HAVE HALF A MIND TO GIVE ENGLAND SOME OLD DESTROYERS

[Pirlo]

It's so much worse here outside of america. I can't count how many times my head's been cut off when I've been caught worshipping.

I envy you guys. I just wish I could live in a place where I could worship without getting my head cut off.

I love your sarcastic style

[chang50]

Where the hell is Chang at? I thought for sure I'd see a post from him on this topic.

Been away for a few days.I just can't believe figures like 2% for the number of atheists in the US.Surely Scientologists,Taoists,Buddhists,etc alone would account for that many alone.As for non religious atheists,how many are willing to admit it in a country where there is still a level of persecution/ discrimination that is inconceivable in any other first world country?This is probably changing quite rapidly but still is a major problem..

Woah... atheists are persecuted and discriminated against? Where in the hell have I been?

Is it like pre-Civil Rights Act? Are there "God-fearing folks only" signs everywhere? I'll look for those signs next time I go out.

Well we don't get burned alive anymore,so I guess we should be grateful for that

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Where the hell is Chang at? I thought for sure I'd see a post from him on this topic.

Been away for a few days.I just can't believe figures like 2% for the number of atheists in the US.Surely Scientologists,Taoists,Buddhists,etc alone would account for that many alone.As for non religious atheists,how many are willing to admit it in a country where there is still a level of persecution/ discrimination that is inconceivable in any other first world country?This is probably changing quite rapidly but still is a major problem..

Woah... atheists are persecuted and discriminated against? Where in the hell have I been?

Is it like pre-Civil Rights Act? Are there "God-fearing folks only" signs everywhere? I'll look for those signs next time I go out.

• http://the-heretics-haven.blogspot.com/2012/01/saga-of-jessica-alquist.html
• http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/downey_24_4.htm
• http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-08/us/atheist.soldier_1_tours-discrimination-bible?_s=PM:US
  
• Child custody laws:

  As Child custody laws in the United States, are often based on the "best interest of the child" principle, they leave family court judges ample room to consider a parent’s ideology when settling a custody case. Atheism, lack of religious observation and regular church attendance, and the inability to prove one's willingness and capacity to attend to religion with his children, have been used to deny custody to non-religious parents[63]

• Some consider the Boy Scouts of America to be discriminatory (although since they are a private organization I think they should have whatever rules they want).

There's a lot of it out there. Excuse this for being anecdotal, but I knew someone who had a Darwin sticker on their car that was subsequently keyed and the sticker defaced. I know that if I told any of my clients' family that I was atheist, a huge shit storm would follow. I like to think the company I work for would back me, but yeah, I would definitely lose my crew.

-TG

[natty dread]

But, TGD, at movie theaters, there's price discrimination! The elderly, the students, and sometimes service members all get discounts, while the honest, hard-working folk are forced to pay a higher price! DISCRIMINATION!!!

There's also discrimination in the United States against Christians, white people, and men. I've read numerous posts from atheists indicating the ridiculousness of people pointing out the negative effects of these types of discrimination. I'm pretty sure natty dread has indicated the same in the past (in response to a Phatscotty or Viperoverlord or Night Strike post). I just thought he was being consistent... unless of course it's only discrimination if he agrees with it... which, you know, would be shocking since we've never seen that before.

Hey TGD, have you stopped being a racist yet?
Why must you be such a racist, TGD?


Oh and btw, white people, men or christians can get discriIminated against, I've never claimed they can't. So I'm not sure what the f*ck you're on about with your strawman arguments this time.

[jonesthecurl]

Where the hell is Chang at? I thought for sure I'd see a post from him on this topic.

Been away for a few days.I just can't believe figures like 2% for the number of atheists in the US.Surely Scientologists,Taoists,Buddhists,etc alone would account for that many alone.As for non religious atheists,how many are willing to admit it in a country where there is still a level of persecution/ discrimination that is inconceivable in any other first world country?This is probably changing quite rapidly but still is a major problem..

Woah... atheists are persecuted and discriminated against? Where in the hell have I been?

Is it like pre-Civil Rights Act? Are there "God-fearing folks only" signs everywhere? I'll look for those signs next time I go out.

Well we don't get burned alive anymore,so I guess we should be grateful for that

Yeah. Once was enough for me. Bloody hurt too.

[thegreekdog]

But, TGD, at movie theaters, there's price discrimination! The elderly, the students, and sometimes service members all get discounts, while the honest, hard-working folk are forced to pay a higher price! DISCRIMINATION!!!

There's also discrimination in the United States against Christians, white people, and men. I've read numerous posts from atheists indicating the ridiculousness of people pointing out the negative effects of these types of discrimination. I'm pretty sure natty dread has indicated the same in the past (in response to a Phatscotty or Viperoverlord or Night Strike post). I just thought he was being consistent... unless of course it's only discrimination if he agrees with it... which, you know, would be shocking since we've never seen that before.

Hey TGD, have you stopped being a racist yet?
Why must you be such a racist, TGD?


Oh and btw, white people, men or christians can get discriIminated against, I've never claimed they can't. So I'm not sure what the f*ck you're on about with your strawman arguments this time.

They can! Oh joy! Now hopefully you'll rush to the defense of white Christian males when Viperoverlord makes his next discrimination thread. I'm super excited.

I'm all about the strawman arguments when people try to make the ridiculous assertion that atheists are discriminated against, implying that we do something about it, when there are much more important acts of discrimination going on.

[thegreekdog]

Where the hell is Chang at? I thought for sure I'd see a post from him on this topic.

Been away for a few days.I just can't believe figures like 2% for the number of atheists in the US.Surely Scientologists,Taoists,Buddhists,etc alone would account for that many alone.As for non religious atheists,how many are willing to admit it in a country where there is still a level of persecution/ discrimination that is inconceivable in any other first world country?This is probably changing quite rapidly but still is a major problem..

Woah... atheists are persecuted and discriminated against? Where in the hell have I been?

Is it like pre-Civil Rights Act? Are there "God-fearing folks only" signs everywhere? I'll look for those signs next time I go out.

• http://the-heretics-haven.blogspot.com/2012/01/saga-of-jessica-alquist.html
• http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/downey_24_4.htm
• http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-08/us/atheist.soldier_1_tours-discrimination-bible?_s=PM:US
  
• Child custody laws:

  As Child custody laws in the United States, are often based on the "best interest of the child" principle, they leave family court judges ample room to consider a parent’s ideology when settling a custody case. Atheism, lack of religious observation and regular church attendance, and the inability to prove one's willingness and capacity to attend to religion with his children, have been used to deny custody to non-religious parents[63]

• Some consider the Boy Scouts of America to be discriminatory (although since they are a private organization I think they should have whatever rules they want).

There's a lot of it out there. Excuse this for being anecdotal, but I knew someone who had a Darwin sticker on their car that was subsequently keyed and the sticker defaced. I know that if I told any of my clients' family that I was atheist, a huge shit storm would follow. I like to think the company I work for would back me, but yeah, I would definitely lose my crew.

-TG

I don't think I've made myself clear on this issue. I have no doubt that there is discrimination against atheists or agnostics. It may be pervasive. I do not think it's important enough, relative to other forms of discrimination, to warrant the use of political, monetary, and social capital to eradicate it. These links you've posted above are disturbing. I can find links, if you want, to disturbing discrimination items regarding other religious or other races. The article relative to the armed forces, for example, can be applied to Muslims I suspect. And I suspect I could find numerous articles on the same.

As for anecdotal evidence, my boss is atheist... he's a major partner in a major firm. I have multiple clients who are atheists or agnostic who are CEOs and CFOs and VPs of Tax. None of those people are black. None of them are Muslim. Am I pulling out a strawman here? Hell yes, but it's relevant to the discussion. As I indicated above, there's discrimination and there's pervasive, evil, life-altering discrimation. There's getting your car keyed and there's getting killed because you're gay. There's getting left alone in the cafeteria and there's getting stopped by police and deported because you're Mexican.

[Phatscotty]

Like I have always said.... you want to see religious fundamentalism in our time, look at some Atheists. Some of them which you can find on display almost anywhere are by far the most hateful, most intolerant, most close minded people around. They are the most hollow too, and if you ask me they have replaced the emptiness left from the place others fill with morality or fear of a higher power and possess spirit, with hate. Usually unhappy also.

Not all, just some. The spirit which helps a person struggle through a tough time and can provide unimaginable great strength in the highest moment of need, can also be used to do evil and spread hate and unhappiness and make the world a crappier place.

[Lootifer]

Like I have always said.... you want to see religious fundamentalism in our time, look at some Atheists. Some of them which you can find on display almost anywhere are by far the most hateful, most intolerant, most close minded people around. They are the most hollow too, and if you ask me they have replaced the emptiness left from the place others fill with morality or fear of a higher power and possess spirit, with hate. Usually unhappy also.

Not all, just some. The spirit which helps a person struggle through a tough time and can provide unimaginable great strength in the highest moment of need, can also be used to do evil and spread hate and unhappiness and make the world a crappier place.

...



.... PLEASE BE TROLLING!

[natty dread]

They can! Oh joy! Now hopefully you'll rush to the defense of white Christian males when Viperoverlord makes his next discrimination thread.

I don't even know how you got to that conclusion. I've never made a blanket statement of agreeing with ViperOverLord on his views.

But hey, don't feel bad about it. Maybe rational thinking and logical conclusions just aren't your cup of tea, perhaps?

I'm all about the strawman arguments

Yes, I can see that.

when people try to make the ridiculous assertion that atheists are discriminated against,

And your argument against that assertion is basically "nuh-uh".

implying that we do something about it, when there are much more important acts of discrimination going on.

So, you're of the opinion that the entire world should only concentrate on one problem at any given time?

Yeah, that sounds efficient. And by efficient, I mean utterly moronic.

If you brush off problems on the basis that there are worse problems, then eventually you have to brush off all the problems in the world except the absolutely worst one.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I don't think I've made myself clear on this issue. I have no doubt that there is discrimination against atheists or agnostics. It may be pervasive. I do not think it's important enough, relative to other forms of discrimination, to warrant the use of political, monetary, and social capital to eradicate it. These links you've posted above are disturbing. I can find links, if you want, to disturbing discrimination items regarding other religious or other races. The article relative to the armed forces, for example, can be applied to Muslims I suspect. And I suspect I could find numerous articles on the same.

As for anecdotal evidence, my boss is atheist... he's a major partner in a major firm. I have multiple clients who are atheists or agnostic who are CEOs and CFOs and VPs of Tax. None of those people are black. None of them are Muslim. Am I pulling out a strawman here? Hell yes, but it's relevant to the discussion. As I indicated above, there's discrimination and there's pervasive, evil, life-altering discrimation. There's getting your car keyed and there's getting killed because you're gay. There's getting left alone in the cafeteria and there's getting stopped by police and deported because you're Mexican.

I fully recognize that there is worse discrimination like the scenarios you stated; my intent was merely to point out that there is discrimination out there. And there have been killings, although yeah they aren't as prevalent as say racial or gay killings: http://www.parallelpac.org/murder.htm

Like I have always said.... you want to see religious fundamentalism in our time, look at some Atheists. Some of them which you can find on display almost anywhere are by far the most hateful, most intolerant, most close minded people around. They are the most hollow too, and if you ask me they have replaced the emptiness left from the place others fill with morality or fear of a higher power and possess spirit, with hate. Usually unhappy also.

Not all, just some. The spirit which helps a person struggle through a tough time and can provide unimaginable great strength in the highest moment of need, can also be used to do evil and spread hate and unhappiness and make the world a crappier place.

That's dumb. Which is worse: religious zealot kills you because you're gay, or atheist insults your intelligence because you believe in god?

-TG

[BigBallinStalin]

Like I have always said.... you want to see religious fundamentalism in our time, look at some Atheists. Some of them which you can find on display almost anywhere are by far the most hateful, most intolerant, most close minded people around. They are the most hollow too, and if you ask me they have replaced the emptiness left from the place others fill with morality or fear of a higher power and possess spirit, with hate. Usually unhappy also.

Not all, just some. The spirit which helps a person struggle through a tough time and can provide unimaginable great strength in the highest moment of need, can also be used to do evil and spread hate and unhappiness and make the world a crappier place.

You could say the same of any extremist, regardless of his religious, ethnic, or ideological affiliation.

"Some of [insert group to Hate-Hate-Hate-Hate upon] are like this and like that and like this and uh."

[BigBallinStalin]

So, you're of the opinion that the entire world should only concentrate on one problem at any given time?

Yeah, that sounds efficient. And by efficient, I mean utterly moronic.

If you brush off problems on the basis that there are worse problems, then eventually you have to brush off all the problems in the world except the absolutely worst one.

Decisions, which dedicate resources to achieve a certain goal, are made on the margin. If the state or some organization has limited resources, then they must dedicate them to whatever they perceive to be their most highly valued use--at the cost of not dedicating these resources to other uses (i.e. opportunity cost).

If the state's goal is to mitigate discrimination, then it makes sense to mitigate the effects of discrimination which create the most harm.