Tea Party Misogynist Limbaugh Demands Free Government Porn

[comic boy]

further to the point tgd made earlier, why on earth is prostitution still illegal ?

[oVo]

Furthermore, every single one of those problems you list are because of the federal government being too involved in the private market. They wasted money on bailing out businesses, mandated that banks provide mortgages to people who couldn't afford it, and continually block development of oil fields that would drive down the price of gasoline.

Who's Koolaid are you drinking? It's the deregulation of banking, lack of involvement, lack of oversight and accountability by the Feds that allowed the Wall Street and investment bankers across the USA run wild with greed. There was NO GOVERNMENT MANDATE that banks provide mortgage loans to people who lacked the income or collateral to qualify or in good confidence secure a loan. Bankers and their minions took it upon themselves to make investments and mortgage loans collecting billions in commissions and then bundled those bad financial investments to sell them and cash in even more.

This wasn't a bunch of rogue bankers, it was greedy bastards taking advantage of a system with no checks & balances or regulation who were never held accountable. Instead they were bailed out by a President who looked the other way as his cronies cashed in, until the bottom fell out and the biggest investment companies in the world were in jeopardy.

You may find this hard to believe, but oil companies can't just drill everywhere sucking non-renewable resources out of the ground expecting to bring down the price of a barrel of oil with no impact on the world. Future generations expect to continue inhabiting this planet long after we're gone. Energy policy can't take on the same attitude as the Bush era bankers who neared an event horizon for the financial world with their selfish "acquire as much profit as possible regardless of the risks" financial schemes and self centered greed agenda.

[Night Strike]

Furthermore, every single one of those problems you list are because of the federal government being too involved in the private market. They wasted money on bailing out businesses, mandated that banks provide mortgages to people who couldn't afford it, and continually block development of oil fields that would drive down the price of gasoline.

Who's Koolaid are you drinking? It's the deregulation of banking, lack of involvement, lack of oversight and accountability by the Feds that allowed the Wall Street and investment bankers across the USA run wild with greed. There was NO GOVERNMENT MANDATE that banks provide mortgage loans to people who lacked the income or collateral to qualify or in good confidence secure a loan. Bankers and their minions took it upon themselves to make investments and mortgage loans collecting billions in commissions and then bundled those bad financial investments to sell them and cash in even more.

This wasn't a bunch of rogue bankers, it was greedy bastards taking advantage of a system with no checks & balances or regulation who were never held accountable. Instead they were bailed out by a President who looked the other way as his cronies cashed in, until the bottom fell out and the biggest investment companies in the world were in jeopardy.

In your hatred for Bush, you sure are pretty good at rewriting history. It was the Democrats, led by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who forced bankers to give out sub-prime loans to people who would not normally qualify for loans. They did this mostly through intimidation and threatening that the bankers would be drug before Congressional committees to answer accusations of being racist for not providing the loans. In either 2005 or 2007 (forgot which year), Bush approached Congress and told them that major reforms had to take place in institutions such as Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae because the housing market was set up for a massive collapse. Barney Frank refused to hear it because he knew the housing market was completely stable and could never collapse. We know what happened in 2008.

Progressives have a pretty clear history of causing problems to arise, blaming them on the free market, and then instituting large new governmental regulations that stop it from happening again (even though they are the ones who started it). The two most recent and clearest examples are the Dodd-Frank law and the Fast and Furious scandal. They use the government to create problems, and then use those problems to justify more government power over free citizens.

[Night Strike]

Oops, I forgot to post this information as well: The standard for the government is to expect more than 40% of their governmental loans to fail. The private industry has failures of less than 3%. Yet ovo, player, symmetry, and many others think it's better for the government to handle everything? We are doomed if we hold on to your views.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/07/senate-must-say-no-to-another-big-government-construction-program-that-isnt/

[oVo]

That link is a Fox News: Opinion I'll dig you up some facts
about the mortgage/derivatives financial bust and it's not Barney Franks'
and dems forcing anyone to do anything with bogus threats or legislation.
This was the workings of Wall Street and others taking advantage
of the lack of federal regulations, while giving campaign kickbacks
to maintain their perks with no accountability for their actions.

[thegreekdog]

That link is a Fox News: Opinion I'll dig you up some facts
about the mortgage/derivatives financial bust and it's not Barney Franks'
and dems forcing anyone to do anything with bogus threats or legislation.
This was the workings of Wall Street and others taking advantage
of the lack of federal regulations, while giving campaign kickbacks
to maintain their perks with no accountability for their actions.

It was both. The Democrats (and George Bush I) wanted affordable housing to do two things: (1) get people in houses; and (2) help out the housing market. Both of those things worked until 2007/2008/2009.

I blame the entire thing on people purchasing houses they could not afford, but if I have to blame any politicians, I blame all of them, not one particular group in one particular party.

[Juan_Bottom]

Blame the banks more. Countrywide just lost a lawsuit for giving higher rates to blacks and Mexican Americans based on racial profiling. They would lie to borrowers and punish anyone who tried to inform them. Really they just took advantage of human nature. Who read every page of their mortgage? Nobody, that's who.

[Night Strike]

That link is a Fox News: Opinion I'll dig you up some facts
about the mortgage/derivatives financial bust and it's not Barney Franks'
and dems forcing anyone to do anything with bogus threats or legislation.
This was the workings of Wall Street and others taking advantage
of the lack of federal regulations, while giving campaign kickbacks
to maintain their perks with no accountability for their actions.

FYI, the opinion piece was written by a Senator; someone who would actually have access to and knowledge of target rates that go into writing a piece of legislation or funding a program/department. It's not like I wrote the piece and passed off those numbers as facts. Plus, if you actually read the piece, you would notice that there are several citations, such as this one from Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-12/toll-road-woes-show-risk-of-u-s-loans-lawmakers-aim-to-expand.html. An opinion piece can still be based on facts and can't just be dismissed out of hand simply because you see the word "opinion".

[oVo]

Do you know what happens when trillions of dollars in derivatives are rendered worthless?

Nova: Mind Over Money

Frontline:
Inside the Meltdown
Breaking the Bank
The Warning

[thegreekdog]

Blame the banks more. Countrywide just lost a lawsuit for giving higher rates to blacks and Mexican Americans based on racial profiling. They would lie to borrowers and punish anyone who tried to inform them. Really they just took advantage of human nature. Who read every page of their mortgage? Nobody, that's who.

My wife and I did. And we changed language in our mortgage document.

That argument (who reads their mortgage?) is moronic and I detest it. Yeah, maybe I don't read the warning label on the back of the bleach bottle. But I paid $2 for that bleach. If you're paying multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars for a fucking house, you damn well better read the fucking mortgage.

[Phatscotty]

That link is a Fox News: Opinion I'll dig you up some facts
about the mortgage/derivatives financial bust and it's not Barney Franks'
and dems forcing anyone to do anything with bogus threats or legislation.
This was the workings of Wall Street and others taking advantage
of the lack of federal regulations, while giving campaign kickbacks
to maintain their perks with no accountability for their actions.

It was both. The Democrats (and George Bush I) wanted affordable housing to do two things: (1) get people in houses; and (2) help out the housing market. Both of those things worked until 2007/2008/2009.

I blame the entire thing on people purchasing houses they could not afford, but if I have to blame any politicians, I blame all of them, not one particular group in one particular party.

Oh, I blame some more than others. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Bill Clinton, Alan Greenspan, and the Democrats who took congress in 2006 (about 16 months before everything went to shit) namely, Nancy Pelosi.

[Symmetry]

While it would be nice to blame a small cadre of US politicians for the global financial crisis and blame it all on some bunch of dumb Americans conned into taking out mortgages, I suspect that the global financial crisis was, well, a little more global, and more to do with the financial system, worldwide. Of course, talk like that doesn't work for politicians playing partisan, or their donors, or those that buy into the premise that it was the other party what did it.

[kentington]

Symmetry:
I wish I could play the partisan game. That would mean one side was correct. There were a few who were a lot more responsible. But this is just one area and they are the ones who were caught.
I also blame the people who thought they could buy a house they couldn't afford. The old adage : "If it's too good to be true; it probably is."

[Symmetry]

Symmetry:
I wish I could play the partisan game. That would mean one side was correct. There were a few who were a lot more responsible. But this is just one area and they are the ones who were caught.
I also blame the people who thought they could buy a house they couldn't afford. The old adage : "If it's too good to be true; it probably is."

Think you might have misread my post, although to be fair, irony in my head doesn't always translate well into words, but the point was that I would look more toward the system of global finance for the global financial crisis. Pols are certainly involved, but it ain't because they were forced by all those unwilling millionaires who bank-roll their campaigns to provide mortgages for some poor Americans.

As I said, it would be fun to blame the collapse of a global economy on, say Nancy Pelosi and few Dems, but this was a system wide failure, globally. Take the financiers out of the blame equation and portray them as poor victims, forced to make deals they never wanted is kind of an odd stance.

[kentington]

Symmetry:
I wish I could play the partisan game. That would mean one side was correct. There were a few who were a lot more responsible. But this is just one area and they are the ones who were caught.
I also blame the people who thought they could buy a house they couldn't afford. The old adage : "If it's too good to be true; it probably is."

Think you might have misread my post, although to be fair, irony in my head doesn't always translate well into words, but the point was that I would look more toward the system of global finance for the global financial crisis. Pols are certainly involved, but it ain't because they were forced by all those unwilling millionaires who bank-roll their campaigns to provide mortgages for some poor Americans.

As I said, it would be fun to blame the collapse of a global economy on, say Nancy Pelosi and few Dems, but this was a system wide failure, globally. Take the financiers out of the blame equation and portray them as poor victims, forced to make deals they never wanted is kind of an odd stance.

I understood your irony. I was just saying that I wish all the real blame could fall on one side of our government. That would mean we could just stick to the other side and everything would be great. But there was a lot more to blame for this situation and the ones mentioned were just the people who were caught with their hands in the money. So, they are the scapegoats.
I agree with you that there is lot more to it. I just wish there wasn't.

[oVo]

Unfortunately many of these so called "financiers" reaped millions in commissions before the global market imploded and a few still managed to get bailed out as well.

AIG, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch were all in deep shit, while Lehman Brothers went under along with many banks across the USA.

Some CEOs who were "held accountable" by getting the sack had to settle for mere millions more in benefits and bonuses when they left. The victims of this debacle were the investors who woke up one day in 2008 to discover the "managed funds" in their portfolios had evaporated almost over night.

[thegreekdog]

Unfortunately many of these so called "financiers" reaped millions in commissions before the global market imploded and a few still managed to get bailed out as well.

AIG, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch were all in deep shit, while Lehman Brothers went under along with many banks across the USA.

Some CEOs who were "held accountable" by getting the sack had to settle for mere millions more in benefits and bonuses when they left. The victims of this debacle were the investors who woke up one day in 2008 to discover the "managed funds" in their portfolios had evaporated almost over night.

Who bailed out the financiers?

The most blame belongs to the US government honestly.

[Juan_Bottom]

Blame the banks more. Countrywide just lost a lawsuit for giving higher rates to blacks and Mexican Americans based on racial profiling. They would lie to borrowers and punish anyone who tried to inform them. Really they just took advantage of human nature. Who read every page of their mortgage? Nobody, that's who.

My wife and I did. And we changed language in our mortgage document.

That argument (who reads their mortgage?) is moronic and I detest it. Yeah, maybe I don't read the warning label on the back of the bleach bottle. But I paid $2 for that bleach. If you're paying multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars for a fucking house, you damn well better read the fucking mortgage.

It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just that human nature doesn't go with your plan. Even if people did read their 180 piece document most of them wouldn't understand it. Those two things are probably somehow intertwined.

[Night Strike]

Blame the banks more. Countrywide just lost a lawsuit for giving higher rates to blacks and Mexican Americans based on racial profiling. They would lie to borrowers and punish anyone who tried to inform them. Really they just took advantage of human nature. Who read every page of their mortgage? Nobody, that's who.

My wife and I did. And we changed language in our mortgage document.

That argument (who reads their mortgage?) is moronic and I detest it. Yeah, maybe I don't read the warning label on the back of the bleach bottle. But I paid $2 for that bleach. If you're paying multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars for a fucking house, you damn well better read the fucking mortgage.

It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just that human nature doesn't go with your plan. Even if people did read their 180 piece document most of them wouldn't understand it. Those two things are probably somehow intertwined.

So it's the job of the government to come in and correct personal stupidity or irresponsibility? What has happened to personal responsibility? If you don't understand a legally binding document, you either hire a lawyer or refuse to sign the agreement until the writing-party changes the language.

[Juan_Bottom]

Basic human nature doesn't agree with you either. Back in the day, these things were around 10 pages long and written in simple language. I'd guess that a combination of clever corporate lawyers and brain doctors came up with this system that we have today to take advantage of people. In all the loans that I've ever processed, and there have been thousands, nobody ever refused to sign because of the language on any page. In fact, I've called off more signings for shady practice than borrowers have.

[oVo]

Who bailed out the financiers?

In the US as initiated by the President and Congress,
it was the Federal Reserve Bank.

[Night Strike]

Basic human nature doesn't agree with you either. Back in the day, these things were around 10 pages long and written in simple language. I'd guess that a combination of clever corporate lawyers and brain doctors came up with this system that we have today to take advantage of people. In all the loans that I've ever processed, and there have been thousands, nobody ever refused to sign because of the language on any page. In fact, I've called off more signings for shady practice than borrowers have.

So the only solution is to cry and beg to the federal government to pass new laws and regulations? In the free market, if people didn't understand a legal document that they felt was very important, they just wouldn't sign it. They'd either demand that the provider improve the language or find someone else who would. Let's try some free market solutions instead of more government regulations.

[oVo]

So the only solution is to cry and beg to the federal government to pass new laws and regulations?

This site has rules for both the game and forum to promote fair play and civil interaction among players. There is a reason these guidelines/regulations exist here. The financial industry is no different and for obvious reasons it can't be left to regulate itself. Imagine Bernie Madoff exploiting a "free market" and that his educated clientele should have known the profit margins realized through lean times were just too damn good to be legit. Well, there's always free cheese in a mouse trap. The Feds overseeing the market are so understaffed (and underfunded) that they never would have discovered his ponzi scheme at all without economic experts tipping them off, and it still took years for them to catch on.

[pimpdave]

Look up the recent history of lysine price fixing for another example of why the free market is horseshit and doesn't do what the CEOs love to claim it does.

[thegreekdog]

Who bailed out the financiers?

In the US as initiated by the President and Congress,
it was the Federal Reserve Bank.

Which is why I continue to blame politicians.

Basic human nature doesn't agree with you either. Back in the day, these things were around 10 pages long and written in simple language. I'd guess that a combination of clever corporate lawyers and brain doctors came up with this system that we have today to take advantage of people. In all the loans that I've ever processed, and there have been thousands, nobody ever refused to sign because of the language on any page. In fact, I've called off more signings for shady practice than borrowers have.

Some (including me) would argue that the reason the mortgage documents are hundreds of pages long is because of government interference ("Oh, you have to have something here regarding inspections" or "Oh, you have to have something here regarding home owners' insurance.")

My lease for my first apartment, for example, was 25 pages long and included specific references to Pennsylvania law as to the reason why those provisisions were included in the lease.