ATTN: People Who Believe in Creation Myths

[tkr4lf]

Eh, pot works just as well, if not better, than anti-depressants.

No it actually doesn't. If you're depressed and smoke pot it will only make your depression worse.

I have nothing against pot, I think it's a great way to relax and have a good time, but I really really REALLY despise those potheads who try to sell it as some kind of panacea for any and all ailments...

But it cures cancer!

facepalm.gif

Ha, I'm kidding, of course.

And I'm not saying pot can replace an anti-depressant, just that they function similarly, for me at least.

[natty dread]

Eh, pot works just as well, if not better, than anti-depressants.

No it actually doesn't. If you're depressed and smoke pot it will only make your depression worse.

I have nothing against pot, I think it's a great way to relax and have a good time, but I really really REALLY despise those potheads who try to sell it as some kind of panacea for any and all ailments...

But it cures cancer!

facepalm.gif

Ha, I'm kidding, of course.

And I'm not saying pot can replace an anti-depressant, just that they function similarly, for me at least.

Depression can't be cured with pot, nor can it usually be cured with anti-depressants alone... if you're really actually depressed I'd strongly suggest seeking some counceling/therapy.

[KoolBak]

Well I'll share what factual information I have. Any of you ever attend a real Catholic university? I did (Brothers of the Holy Cross / Notre Dame sister school)....was forced to take 4 years of theology as part of the curriculum (at the time, a daunting fact for a hopeful agnostic).

I recall clearly the first day of class, the ordained father comes in and says "The Bible is a work of fiction".....lmao! Should have seen the look on the other 20 students' faces...all good catholics, of course.

Eventually, his point was that religion is a base for FAITH......don't mix facts with faith. Direct from the Congregation of the Holy Cross

BTW, I got straight A's in theology (leant all 'bout Buddhism, Taoism, etc etc etc...very interesting). Many of the good lil catholics (straight A students) got C's.....lmao

[chang50]

Well I'll share what factual information I have. Any of you ever attend a real Catholic university? I did (Brothers of the Holy Cross / Notre Dame sister school)....was forced to take 4 years of theology as part of the curriculum (at the time, a daunting fact for a hopeful agnostic).

I recall clearly the first day of class, the ordained father comes in and says "The Bible is a work of fiction".....lmao! Should have seen the look on the other 20 students' faces...all good catholics, of course.

Eventually, his point was that religion is a base for FAITH......don't mix facts with faith. Direct from the Congregation of the Holy Cross

BTW, I got straight A's in theology (leant all 'bout Buddhism, Taoism, etc etc etc...very interesting). Many of the good lil catholics (straight A students) got C's.....lmao

It's well known that the religious are generally speaking spectacularly ignorant and uninformed on the subject of religion.Please note I said,generally..

[chang50]

I don't know why people even try to reason with you NS... you seem to be so far gone there's no rescuing you from your indoctrination.

Let me just ask you this. Are you even capable of considering the possibility that your religion is actually false, and what the implications would be if so?

Yes, I have contemplated it. And it would be a pointless existence if we were simply here because evolution randomly decided that we would be here at this point and will then fade into nothingness when we die. I instead choose to believe that we were all created for a specific purpose.

Do you really choose what you believe?Personally I either believe a proposition or not,as dictated by my conscience.'Choosing to believe',implies something less than sincerity in those beliefs.

[thegreekdog]

I have estimated my IQ to be around 160, thank you. Creationists are the mortal enemies of Atheists. God wills it.

Just how is Creationism respectable?

Who said creationism is respectable?

I think one has to have an IQ of 160 to be able to test their own IQ.

Ok, Creationism isn't respectable, but it's not retarded. Did you know that retarded means stupid?
Whatever moderator. Right now you're the last mod in the world who should be telling me to stuff it.

I'm not moderating in this thread (so let's get that out of the way). As far as I'm concerned, respectful discussion about religion is fine. Just like respectful discussion about gay marriage is fine.

Creationism (ISM) is not respectable, I agree with that, and it has no place in the scientific community and should not be taught in schools. Let's get that out of the way too.

Creationists should be taken on an individual basis, not lumped together and given no respect, especially when a creationist is not pushing his or her agenda. You can disrespect the idea without disrespecting the people who believe the idea. This thread wasn't created by a creationists. It was created by whatever pimpdave happens to be today (presumably atheist).

[betiko]

I just think it's incredible that in the US some parents can actually chose to make their children learn lies.
Why not teach them that the earth is flat, the center of the universe and that the sun moves around it? that's what church taught during the middle ages and people got killed during the inquisition for proving it was wrong..

[thegreekdog]

I just think it's incredible that in the US some parents can actually chose to make their children learn lies.
Why not teach them that the earth is flat, the center of the universe and that the sun moves around it? that's what church taught during the middle ages and people got killed during the inquisition for proving it was wrong..

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

Also, I had not heard in my history classes in college that people were killed during the inquisition for proving that the earth wasn't flat. I was taught that the medieval inquisitions were responses to heretics. Maybe you're talking about the Spanish inquisition, but that wasn't with respect to scientists and it wasn't during the middle ages. I guess you'll have to be more specific. Who was specifically killed and when?

[oVo]

For Dave
a simple explanation: illustrated

[natty dread]

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

Should it be though?

What if I choose to invent my own language and only teach it to my kid, and when s/he grows up s/he can't communicate with anyone except me. Should that be allowed?

[john9blue]

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

this is pretty vague though.

who has the final say in what a child is taught? parents? the government? society in general?

[thegreekdog]

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

Should it be though?

What if I choose to invent my own language and only teach it to my kid, and when s/he grows up s/he can't communicate with anyone except me. Should that be allowed?

Sure. This girl I went to high school with invented her own language.

Teaching a child creationism does nothing except make the child unsuccessful with science until he or she may go to college.

[BigBallinStalin]

No it actually doesn't. If you're depressed and smoke pot it will only make your depression worse.

I have nothing against pot, I think it's a great way to relax and have a good time, but I really really REALLY despise those potheads who try to sell it as some kind of panacea for any and all ailments...

But it cures cancer!

facepalm.gif

Ha, I'm kidding, of course.

And I'm not saying pot can replace an anti-depressant, just that they function similarly, for me at least.

Depression can't be cured with pot, nor can it usually be cured with anti-depressants alone... if you're really actually depressed I'd strongly suggest seeking some counceling/therapy.

I'll counsel you, baby. Just step inside my dimly light room and take off your clothes.

[InkL0sed]

no, they are just stupid.

and yes, i tolerate racists.

in fact i have a very high tolerance for all kinds of stupidity, because it's what i've had to live through my entire life.

It must be have been so hard, living with yourself all those years.

[tkr4lf]

I'll counsel you, baby. Just step inside my dimly light room and take off your clothes.

I've waited so long to hear those words...

[PLAYER57832]

I have a fairly strict code of conduct - live and let live. If people don't give me shit about my religious beliefs, I don't give them shit. That being said, my second rule is that I want everyone to abide by my first rule. So, when I see a thread like this where people are being ignorant, intolerant, and vile on both sides, it gets me rather angry.

For example - Creationists are no threat to American society. They may be vocal. They may be forcing creationism to be taught in schools. But who cares? You can stlll go on believing whatever the f*ck you want. I can come in to work tomorrow and say that I believe a giant moose created the earth 50 years ago. Who cares?

It matters a great deal when Creationists are stopping real science education from happening in our schools, and when the next generation is being threatened becuase teachers and administrations are having to spend time dealing with people who refuse to accept that science matters, who believe flat out fraudulant lies.

You complain about money being wasted on medical care you just happen to dislike, but somehow think it is perfectly OK to endanger the education of future generations because of some misguided sense of "tolerance".

[PLAYER57832]

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

Should it be though?

What if I choose to invent my own language and only teach it to my kid, and when s/he grows up s/he can't communicate with anyone except me. Should that be allowed?

Sure. This girl I went to high school with invented her own language.

Teaching a child creationism does nothing except make the child unsuccessful with science until he or she may go to college.

Absolutely untrue.

It is particularly untrue becuase Creationists are not content to let science teachers teach real science in school, they insist that their lies (and yes, the "evidence" of Creationism is a pack of lies be taught as legitimate theories.

For example, they want kids to learn that the Grand Canyon might have been created quickly, that the scientific evidence is not valid, that there are massive problems with fossils.

[bedub1]

For example - Creationists are no threat to American society. They may be vocal. They may be forcing creationism to be taught in schools. But who cares?

Yes, they are a threat to American Society. I want FACTs and SCIENCE taught in school. I don't want fairy tales taught in school. It makes children dumb and ignorant to fill their head with lies.

[thegreekdog]

For example - Creationists are no threat to American society. They may be vocal. They may be forcing creationism to be taught in schools. But who cares?

Yes, they are a threat to American Society. I want FACTs and SCIENCE taught in school. I don't want fairy tales taught in school. It makes children dumb and ignorant to fill their head with lies.

Who cares? There are plenty of moron children who aren't creationists.

It matters a great deal when Creationists are stopping real science education from happening in our schools, and when the next generation is being threatened becuase teachers and administrations are having to spend time dealing with people who refuse to accept that science matters, who believe flat out fraudulant lies.

Why does it matter? What are they doing to hurt YOU?

You complain about money being wasted on medical care you just happen to dislike, but somehow think it is perfectly OK to endanger the education of future generations because of some misguided sense of "tolerance".

I don't want my money to pay for teaching creationism either. So, if someone in my school district tries to get the school to teach creationism, I'll fight against it. But, at least for now, I don't care.

Look Player... bedub... you know how the whole "AH! CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS TO PAY FOR ABORTIOSN!" stuff is happening? Yeah, this here? This creationism stuff? This is the liberal version of that... the liberal bogeyman. Oooh ooohh... creationists coming to get you! RUN!

[Lootifer]

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

Should it be though?

What if I choose to invent my own language and only teach it to my kid, and when s/he grows up s/he can't communicate with anyone except me. Should that be allowed?

The problem isnt you teaching them your language, the problem is how you managed to get them to learn ONLY your language. Pretty sure language development is learned through a combination of parents, peers (yup they learn from the other learners) and the plethora of environmental influences/learning points (TV, internet, family, friends, random cafe encounters, pre-school techers, and many many more things); sure parents have a strong influence but are far from the only one.

[natty dread]

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

Should it be though?

What if I choose to invent my own language and only teach it to my kid, and when s/he grows up s/he can't communicate with anyone except me. Should that be allowed?

The problem isnt you teaching them your language, the problem is how you managed to get them to learn ONLY your language. Pretty sure language development is learned through a combination of parents, peers (yup they learn from the other learners) and the plethora of environmental influences/learning points (TV, internet, family, friends, random cafe encounters, pre-school techers, and many many more things); sure parents have a strong influence but are far from the only one.

I would "homeschool" the kid and make sure s/he didn't have contact anyone but me, and only speak the invented language around the kid. Until s/he turns 18 when I'd kick her out to the real world.

But hey, it's my choice, I can teach whatever I want to my kid.

[Lootifer]

Thats an extreme example which is clearly morally wrong compared to your more moderate version earlier on. but w/e

In other words you aint teching shit, you are brainwashing. Big difference.

[Night Strike]

I think it's legal to teach children whatever people want to teach them.

Should it be though?

What if I choose to invent my own language and only teach it to my kid, and when s/he grows up s/he can't communicate with anyone except me. Should that be allowed?

The problem isnt you teaching them your language, the problem is how you managed to get them to learn ONLY your language. Pretty sure language development is learned through a combination of parents, peers (yup they learn from the other learners) and the plethora of environmental influences/learning points (TV, internet, family, friends, random cafe encounters, pre-school techers, and many many more things); sure parents have a strong influence but are far from the only one.

I would "homeschool" the kid and make sure s/he didn't have contact anyone but me, and only speak the invented language around the kid. Until s/he turns 18 when I'd kick her out to the real world.

But hey, it's my choice, I can teach whatever I want to my kid.

You should go ahead and do that. Teaching kids about religion and creation does not hinder their social interactions. You just think it makes them all idiots, which is also patently false.

[Juan_Bottom]

What battle? I didn't realize there was a battle, nor am I a part of any battle.

And look, bottom line, the issue has nothing to do with level of intellect. It's all a matter of belief. Theists believe in a god, atheist believe that there is no god. I say believe, because there is no way to know. You can fool yourself into thinking that you "know" that there is no god, but you don't. It's unknowable. You believe that there isn't a god. And that belief is no different from somebody else's belief that there is a god.

And just because there isn't any evidence that there is a god, doesn't mean that your or my beliefs are correct. There isn't any evidence against there being a god either. For all we know there really is a god, and evolution is simply the mechanism he created to deal with life. We just don't know.

I guess my main point here, is that you have no right to be a total dick to anybody who believes in a god.

I'm actually really surprised to see you trying to sell me down the river in this thread. Have you ever read an literature on this subject or have you come to an Atheist's conclusion on your own? There actually is evidence contradictory to there being a God. There is a world of evidence that there is no Christian God. If you really respect the guesses of Christians then why are you even debating NS?

The real bottom line is that to hold a Christians or a Creationists position is to hold an inferior one to mine. Despite what you said, there is a proven negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity. That is, the stupider you are, the more likely you are to be religious.
There's no reason at all to pretend that I respect a creationists arguments. I don't respect them. Their arguments are pretty f*cking stupid and have no scientific weight. We've smashed them in every debate here and elsewhere. I've never once heard an intelligent argument from a Creationist. I've never had to pause and think before responding. I've never had to do any serious research because of some awesome new revelation from one.
They're not standing on equal footing with me. I'm not going to humor them and pretend that they are. You might as well pretend that a skinhead's ideas are worthy of being too. Neither a Creationist nor a racist has any science to back up their claims. And if you take a look at your position here, of claiming that I'm the radical for being disrespectful; stop and think for a second.... what I'm doing, is bashing a retarded idea that has no science or facts at all to back it up. That's a normal thing to do. Thomas Jefferson recommended it when confronted with an untenable idea. And it's an idea that you don't even believe in. So why are you apologizing for their folly? If their "beliefs" were valid, God would be a Theory and not a Hypothesis. By defending those ideas, you might as well be defending Racism. It's all from the same tree of ignorance. A belief is a belief... but believing in things contrary to all facts is retarded.

Look dude, I'm not trying to sell you down the river. I have no problem with you personally, just in your methods. You're rather extreme in how you go about dealing with people that hold different views than you. Extremism is rarely a good thing, especially when it comes to religion.

As for the literature, no, I haven't read any of it. I honestly don't care that much about it. I came to the atheist/agnostic conclusion myself. But I don't see a point in trying to proselytize. As long as people live and let live, then where is the harm in holding a certain religious belief? Sure, when/if there is something worthy of fighting, then you should fight. Hell, I would fight it in that instance. But to call people names and put them down because of their religious beliefs isn't right. As tgd said, just live and let live.

Creationism isn't a tenet of Christianity. It's just an idea that was proven to be wrong, like, over one hundred years ago.
You yourself seem to think that the idea is stupid, you just don't think it's ok to say so because you don't want anyone getting butthurt. I mean, I had to infer this because you didn't really address my point.
But not all ideas are equal, nor do they deserve equal treatment. I'd say the same if we were talking about Bigfoot hunters.

You know, I'd love to meet the guy who decided that Religion & Creationism were "untouchable." I'd make him watch a George Carlin video. If those people are embarrassed by their retarded beliefs then they need to address their beliefs.

I'm not moderating in this thread (so let's get that out of the way). As far as I'm concerned, respectful discussion about religion is fine. Just like respectful discussion about gay marriage is fine.

Creationism (ISM) is not respectable, I agree with that, and it has no place in the scientific community and should not be taught in schools. Let's get that out of the way too.

Creationists should be taken on an individual basis, not lumped together and given no respect, especially when a creationist is not pushing his or her agenda. You can disrespect the idea without disrespecting the people who believe the idea. This thread wasn't created by a creationists. It was created by whatever pimpdave happens to be today (presumably atheist).

OK, you just said "Creationism is retarded."

[Night Strike]

Creationism isn't a tenet of Christianity. It's just an idea that was proven to be wrong, like, over one hundred years ago.

Yes, creation is a vital tenant of Christianity. God created the world and everything in it as perfect, but when sin entered the world, it corrupted the perfect creations which has led to all the problems we have today (both in nature and in people). However, it was Christ's sacrifice that allows us sinful individuals to become sanctified and join Him in a perfect life and existence. He will also return at sometime in the future and reestablish the perfect Earth that existed before sin's corruption. Without the creation of a perfect world and sin's corruption of it, there would be no reason for Christ's death and resurrection.

You yourself seem to think that the idea is stupid, you just don't think it's ok to say so because you don't want anyone getting butthurt. I mean, I had to infer this because you didn't really address my point.
But not all ideas are equal, nor do they deserve equal treatment. I'd say the same if we were talking about Bigfoot hunters.

You know, I'd love to meet the guy who decided that Religion & Creationism were "untouchable." I'd make him watch a George Carlin video. If those people are embarrassed by their retarded beliefs then they need to address their beliefs.

You can disagree with Christianity all you want. What's bigoted is your flat out insistence that all Christians are automatically stupid for believing it and that because you don't believe in it you are inherently better than those that do. If I had taken your exact same comments towards Christianity and would have instead pointed them towards Muslims, you would have immediately (and rightfully) labeled me as a bigot and reported me. We only ask that you be treated the same way.