Team games Invite Abuse

[betiko]

well, i play some of those games once in a while, and beleive it or not, i do think it's fun to coordinate everything and having the tension to know if the other team is going to start its turn or not and everything.
I have been doing some team freestyles about a year ago and got farmed as well because my team had a full roster already in and a team 2 arrived and coordinated stuff.
so if there is something wrong here, it's team freestyles, not the fact of playing team freestyle the best way possible.
I also think freestyle in general is gross abuse; as i have a slow computer and i m far from the CC servers; i can play vs some american guys and he can have killed 6 territories i still don't see the 1st one he killed yet.
freestyle is just a complete different game from sequential; just make 2 scoreboards and everyone will be happy. In the meanwhile, don't blame people for playing games with settings they like (i personally do it for medal hunting trips+freestyle+nuclear+manual+random all at once, you can't beat those settings for effective medal hunting)
GLG plays ONLY low ranks and 99% on his farming settings and he got warned for playing only this way; not for playing a few of those.
Also I wanted to ad that it's really not about the team 2 that joins; it's really about getting the start advantage... there are so many tricks used by freestyle players anyway.

[Lindax]

Freestyle should just be abolished...

Or made a separate part of the site, with it's own scoreboard.

Lx

[codeblue1018]

well, i play some of those games once in a while, and beleive it or not, i do think it's fun to coordinate everything and having the tension to know if the other team is going to start its turn or not and everything.
I have been doing some team freestyles about a year ago and got farmed as well because my team had a full roster already in and a team 2 arrived and coordinated stuff.
so if there is something wrong here, it's team freestyles, not the fact of playing team freestyle the best way possible.
I also think freestyle in general is gross abuse; as i have a slow computer and i m far from the CC servers; i can play vs some american guys and he can have killed 6 territories i still don't see the 1st one he killed yet.
freestyle is just a complete different game from sequential; just make 2 scoreboards and everyone will be happy. In the meanwhile, don't blame people for playing games with settings they like (i personally do it for medal hunting trips+freestyle+nuclear+manual+random all at once, you can't beat those settings for effective medal hunting)
GLG plays ONLY low ranks and 99% on his farming settings and he got warned for playing only this way; not for playing a few of those.
Also I wanted to ad that it's really not about the team 2 that joins; it's really about getting the start advantage... there are so many tricks used by freestyle players anyway.

Agree, two scoreboards would be great; I'd like to see it. As far as tec's team; the way they play mate, they will ALWAYS start first or it will be dropped if team 2 doesn't fill. They make it so their invited player will be the last player that joins and all will be online at the same time and then the turn is taken and the game is basically over after their first turn. This is why this is cheap play. It's not the game play itself perse, it's the way it's started/joined and the turn is taken in concert. It's basically free points. Understand what people see as a problem here? It's a simple, legalized way to play freestyle, which gives their opponents virtually no chance at winning. as I said, it's cheap.

[tsioumiou]

What you are describing is not invite abuse and is not against the rules.

I agree. But what if they do this, and then the situation occurs that ljex describes: instead of unwitting lambs for the slaughter a couple of knowledgeable players join and also invite a team mate that doesn't join immediately (basically doing the same as "the accused") to neutralize the advantage of "the accused" and suddenly "the accused" all drop the game? That IMO is gross abuse of unwritten rules, even worse than the ranching that GLG was warned for. I would love to hear the opinion of a C&A mod on this. Maybe someone should file a "test case".

Just as you have the right to join a game whenever you want...you may also drop out of any game whenever you want and for whatever reason you want.
Again, not abuse.

Is foe'ing a player because you don't want to play them again abuse?...how about foe'ing a player because you are chasing the random medal and need unique defeats and don't want to 'waste time' playing the same players again to get it?
The answer is no, again. You have the right to foe anyone, for any reason you want.

LMS, think outside the friendship box mate. You are correct; it's not cheating. It's ranching unsuspecting players no matter how you paint it. Prime example is what ljax described. They are also joining team 2 games, minus the third player of course until such time team 1 gets a team together; freemiums, inexperienced players. Bottom line, its cheap play mate in which most experienced players could climb the scoreboard with ease as they are currently doing. Takes no skill whatsoever. Its amazes me what others will do to rise up the ranks; very respectable

I am.
These guys may be friends but I can tell you that they aren't the only ones doing it and some of the other players employing this smart way to play are definitely NOT my friends. I'll even go so far as admitting I have waited until all the other players joined before joining a freestyle game too. (GASP) I don't think its a "cheap" way to play and God knows the scoreboard is bogus anyway as a determination of the best player on CC, it's merely a representation of the player best at collecting points....the two are not the same, not even close.

I know how to collect points and have done it...thing is I don't give a damn about them or my rank. Do you really think that MY current rank is an accurate representation of my skill on CC? I have gone from 3744 to 1120 in 3 weeks and back to 3200 in a month, again and again simply by choosing the "right" style of game, and so could anyone else and they don't have to be so called "farming or ranching" games to do it. My 6 years of CC experience and nearly 10,000 games played, clan experience, team experience, map experience, specialty map diversity....I could go on and on....is an accurate representation of my CC skill.

Next thing you know we will have a cute little term describing the unfair advantage one team has over another because they all are communicating in real time over SKYPE and that is unfair to inexperienced players who don't...

edit:
AND, my respect for Tec805 (et al) comes from their incredible skill at playing, specifically, the Stalingrad map. We have been in some epic games on that map both with and against each other. Those guys know what they are doing on any map and I suspect are just having a good time playing the game the way they want to from time to time and there isn't a damn thing wrong with that.

What are you talking about guys?

This is 100% abuse

Second team has NO CHANCE AT ALL from the min they join

On triples doodle even with an extremely bad dice they can easily eliminate at least one player. How can this be allowed? Ive been hearing about farming strategies for years now but i think this is the worst kind ever.

[The Voice]

I am concerned labeling this as abuse might be the start of a very slippery sloop that leads to the eventual banning of freestyle altogether. Sequential (really anything/everything) can be abused. So, if team 1 (whoever they are; it's not very clear to me who you've seen doing this) didn't coerce players from team 2 to join through private messages and invites, this will probably be deemed as nothing more than a cheap tactic.

[jgordon1111]

Started three freestyle games to get some of my clan into playing freestyle. Trips Team 2 swooped in and all played at the same time it was over in round one in all 3 games. the players i was trying to get to take up freestyle never joined another one. Said it was no fun to just get slaughtered.

Myself ,USA
Clan member in UK
Clan member in canada

But did learn a valuable lesson,Never ever play team freestyle.

[king achilles]

It's unfair to blame freestyle. It depends on how a person plays it. This has already been brought to our attention and we also agree that this is a very cheap tactic. It's another potential abuse in the making. You wait for the other team to be filled up before having one of your teammate finally join the game so you can get the first turn of that freestyle game. It's another way to manipulate freestyle.

But then again, if you set up a freestyle team game and your team is just waiting for team 2 to get filled, it will be difficult to know when will that happen so it is most likely that team 2 will get the first turn. The slight advantage for team 1 is that they are the ones who created the game with their preferred setting and map (all this for "the glory of getting the first turn").

So, if team 1 chose the map and settings, and then this tactic to make sure that they get the first move, a big disadvantage will go to their opponents. If done regularly, it's an established team, making their own games, manipulating freestyle.

Would you like this be done to you?

[L M S]

Its not abuse, its the best way to play the particular setting.
'Dunking' the bun in a glass of water is not abuse at the National Hot Dog Eating Contest, although I imagine some do label it a cheap tactic, but everyone who wins employs the same strategy now for sure. Imagine what they all said about the first contestant to do it...................bottom line is that it's just the best way to do it and not against the rules.

If you feel the 'need' to fix this and a VERY LARGE PORTION of the problem with freestyle....and...farming....and...."ranching" (so dumb) then, get rid of invites for public games and eliminate the private game option.
Simple as that.

Invites should only be available for tourney's and clan wars. We made it just fine before invites (our regular teams still managed to all play together) and this actually was a much more entertaining and diverse experience.
The site was much healthier when neither of these things existed.

[simmons4]

This is about team games doubles, triples or quads freestyle casual.

What happens:

If the game is triples then only 2 players join team 1 while they wait until for team 2 to join (usually low rank players).

When team 2 joins, team 1 when they are ready (and also believe team 1 are offline), invite the 3rd member of their team and start all together.

TEAM 2 HAS NO CHANCE.

This is happening on small maps like doodle where the elimination of at least one player from the opposite team is certain if all 3 players start together on triple games.


This type of farming is worst than most the silly farming accusations/threads that i have seen in this forum.

PS This is happening mostly from generals and higher.

Not sure if there is a thread already about it (if yes someone send me the link plz ).

some of tsioumiou games

Game 4545638
Game 4585982
Game 4058742
Game 4062187
Game 4160975
Game 4216692
Game 4353918
Game 4373434
Game 4422316

[smegal69]

codeblue1018 ...... why not make this about the players in the game and not the clan they are in.



if you going to throw shit make sure yours don't stink

Game 9066757 3 cooks,1 cadet
Game 9870687 3 privates,1 cook
Game 9976265 2 cooks,1 cadet and a scary Sargent
Game 9976268 3 cooks and a private
Game 9167338 1 cook,1 cadet and 2 privates

but don't worry i won't say a thing

[ljex]

Basically it comes down to who do you want to have the advantage of going first, your team or theirs? Personally I prefer the advantage. If you would like to play against us we would be happy to play you, but don't expect us to give you the first turn (sorry I turned down your offer to be on your team ljex, but you've been a little too confrontational in the past forum dealings to want to play on your side!)
☯

I have never invited you to a game so lets get things straight...i even told the player that did invite you to a game with me that you were not going to accept. I really dont care that much about the game to be honest though...they wanted to play it and i accepted doesnt really matter who i play with.

[ljex]

codeblue1018 ...... why not make this about the players in the game and not the clan they are in.



if you going to throw shit make sure yours don't stink

Game 9066757 3 cooks,1 cadet
Game 9870687 3 privates,1 cook
Game 9976265 2 cooks,1 cadet and a scary Sargent
Game 9976268 3 cooks and a private
Game 9167338 1 cook,1 cadet and 2 privates

but don't worry i won't say a thing

All of those were set up and left for any team to join without the use of the same tactic that was used by the various members of pack...nothing against the pack just dont feel like finding and listing the names.

I think what many have said is right, this is a slippery slope whichever way a ruling form C&A is made, im not sure what can or should be dont about it...but the fact remains that it is still different than the games you listed. Also both tactics are ranching, though i would wager that the vast majority of the community would say the "pack" method is worse than the "ljex" method

[codeblue1018]

codeblue1018 ...... why not make this about the players in the game and not the clan they are in.



if you going to throw shit make sure yours don't stink

Game 9066757 3 cooks,1 cadet
Game 9870687 3 privates,1 cook
Game 9976265 2 cooks,1 cadet and a scary Sargent
Game 9976268 3 cooks and a private
Game 9167338 1 cook,1 cadet and 2 privates

but don't worry i won't say a thing

Wow, great work. In fact, were you "attempting" to compare my games to that of tec's games? Lol. If so, you are very, very dillisioned. Let's try to explain again and perhaps this time you will comprehend. Tec and his team are starting freestyle team games on small maps; they will intentionally not have their third player accept the invite until such a time when the 2nd team has. Once they are online together, the third player will accept the invite and they will immediately start their turn and te game is now basically over. Sooo, that said; seeing as you are very astute; the games you listed of mine; was this practice ever done on our end? Not at all; in fact take a gander, there were times when they started first; secondly, our team was FULLY entered in the game which at times tool a week or two to start. So, first and foremost, have a clue on what you're talking about, look at my games a little closer so you dont look ridiculous and lastly, since you checked only a handful of freestyle team games; looks like your missing a couple thousand more. Great work!

[tsioumiou]

This is about team games doubles, triples or quads freestyle casual.

What happens:

If the game is triples then only 2 players join team 1 while they wait until for team 2 to join (usually low rank players).

When team 2 joins, team 1 when they are ready (and also believe team 1 are offline), invite the 3rd member of their team and start all together.

TEAM 2 HAS NO CHANCE.

This is happening on small maps like doodle where the elimination of at least one player from the opposite team is certain if all 3 players start together on triple games.


This type of farming is worst than most the silly farming accusations/threads that i have seen in this forum.

PS This is happening mostly from generals and higher.

Not sure if there is a thread already about it (if yes someone send me the link plz ).

some of tsioumiou games

Game 4545638
Game 4585982
Game 4058742
Game 4062187
Game 4160975
Game 4216692
Game 4353918
Game 4373434
Game 4422316

Those games are 2008-09. You really looked up my games lol trying to find 5-10 games out of 7000 to make a point for yourself. How desperate are you?
There was no invite button back then if i remember correctly . Am i right? So if you created a game you couldnt take advantage the way you can now. NOT EVEN CLOSE.


I am joining all kinds of games in this site unlike you.

Which is fine, however

now you made me look at your games history.



I haven't ever accuse anyone personally, in fact i don't even now who you are, YOU MADE ME



You sir should be banned for life from this site for all the points you have stolen!




And now you and your buddies will say "Oh its not against the rules"

Well I am telling you : Those points have been robbed. The poor guys on team 2 never had a chance. on MANY MANY of you games




I have an idea

lets all start using your strategy !

In 1 year cc will have 1000 generals and all the rest will be poor cooks that cant win a single point.
Then all the "skilled" generals can play together for balance.
What do you think?

[simmons4]

You really looked up my games lol trying to find 5-10 games out of 7000

actually thats out of the 158 trips and quads freestyle games you have played

[jghost7]

This is about team games doubles, triples or quads freestyle casual.

What happens:

If the game is triples then only 2 players join team 1 while they wait until for team 2 to join (usually low rank players).

When team 2 joins, team 1 when they are ready (and also believe team 1 are offline), invite the 3rd member of their team and start all together.

TEAM 2 HAS NO CHANCE.

This is happening on small maps like doodle where the elimination of at least one player from the opposite team is certain if all 3 players start together on triple games.


This type of farming is worst than most the silly farming accusations/threads that i have seen in this forum.

PS This is happening mostly from generals and higher.

Not sure if there is a thread already about it (if yes someone send me the link plz ).

some of tsioumiou games

Game 4545638
Game 4585982
Game 4058742
Game 4062187
Game 4160975
Game 4216692
Game 4353918
Game 4373434
Game 4422316

Those games are 2008-09. You really looked up my games lol trying to find 5-10 games out of 7000 to make a point for yourself. How desperate are you?
There was no invite button back then if i remember correctly . Am i right? So if you created a game you couldnt take advantage the way you can now. NOT EVEN CLOSE.


I am joining all kinds of games in this site unlike you.

Which is fine, however

now you made me look at your games history.



I haven't ever accuse anyone personally, in fact i don't even now who you are, YOU MADE ME



You sir should be banned for life from this site for all the points you have stolen!




And now you and your buddies will say "Oh its not against the rules"

Well I am telling you : Those points have been robbed. The poor guys on team 2 never had a chance. on MANY MANY of you games




I have an idea

lets all start using your strategy !

In 1 year cc will have 1000 generals and all the rest will be poor cooks that cant win a single point.
Then all the "skilled" generals can play together for balance.
What do you think?

This entire discussion is laughable. A very simple solution is available to you, yet you continue to prattle on about how abused you are. You can A) Don't play freestyle. B) Foe and move on. C) Play freestyle and try to be last to join.
It is simple. Honestly, who wants to go second on a freestyle game? Don't be a dick and act like you would want to. It is obviously in the best interest of the team to go first in those games, that is how freestyle is set up. If you would change it, then you must change the setup of freestyle and have the countdown as was suggested earlier. This would be a fine suggestion. Or even remove invites from freestyle as they do in speed games. I am not a fan of freestyle therefore I do not play it often. I suggest, if you are having a hard time with it, that you do the same. Move on over to the Suggestions forum and see if you can solve the problem in that venue. That would at least be a step towards resolving your perceived issues. Bitching here, with your emotional arguments will solve nothing and recreate a mini flame war.

Thanks,

J

[BGtheBrain]

*****

[betiko]

I got a solution: when both teams joined a freestyle, the game should not be able to start before 12 or 24h. like this there is no advantage into joining last and everyone is aware of the start time of the game. if you don't show up, well that's just too bad.
after don't blame a team to be more organized than the other, because isn't that the point of a team??

[aad0906]

The point is the unsuspecting noobs who join these games. They have no clue why the 3rd person on team 1 is not accepting the invite.

Reminds me of another case where someone was doing something legal, but everyone knew it just wasn't right.

It just makes me laugh when people think they're so good, but then you come to find out they just know a little trick to give them an advantage.

This guy is right.

I got a solution: when both teams joined a freestyle, the game should not be able to start before 12 or 24h. like this there is no advantage into joining last and everyone is aware of the start time of the game. if you don't show up, well that's just too bad.
after don't blame a team to be more organized than the other, because isn't that the point of a team??

This guy, apart from having an awesome sig, makes a very good suggestion!

In the meantime, I'll be browsing the (freestyle) games waiting for players for noobs who are about to get raped and warn them

[jghost7]

The point is the unsuspecting noobs who join these games. They have no clue why the 3rd person on team 1 is not accepting the invite.(See Below)

Reminds me of another case where someone was doing something legal, but everyone knew it just wasn't right.(Specify the case. I have heard of one that had this type of response, and in the end, we had to settle for a desperate and irresponsible solution.)

It just makes me laugh when people think they're so good, but then you come to find out they just know a little trick to give them an advantage.(Just who are you referring to here? Who are you aiming this bait/flame at?)

The point is that there will always be a unsuspecting noob somewhere doing something for the first or thirtyfirst time. Such is life. At some point they will figure things out. Either way, it is not helping to vent everyone's frustrations out here. As it stands, freestyle games are setup as such. The only real way to fix it is to change how freestyle runs. It is not rocket science. That is why I put out there to take it over to the suggestions forum. That way they can take a look in earnest to see if there is a way to improve the game type to maybe exclude this type of play.

Thanks,

J

[BGtheBrain]

*****

[eddie2]

I think you have forgot to add that players on team 1 also play shots for there team mates if they are not online at the moment needed to play the shots. this is babysitting abuse because it is ussually done with 20 hours left on the clock to prevent them losing a bonus. the whole freestyle needs to be looked at and rules preventing all the abuse stopped.

[aad0906]

I think you have forgot to add that players on team 1 also play shots for there team mates if they are not online at the moment needed to play the shots. this is babysitting abuse because it is ussually done with 20 hours left on the clock to prevent them losing a bonus. the whole freestyle needs to be looked at and rules preventing all the abuse stopped.

That would actually be against existing rules, if you suspect this to happen you should file a C&A and the mods can look into this.

[jghost7]

The point is the unsuspecting noobs who join these games. They have no clue why the 3rd person on team 1 is not accepting the invite.(See Below)

Reminds me of another case where someone was doing something legal, but everyone knew it just wasn't right.(Specify the case. I have heard of one that had this type of response, and in the end, we had to settle for a desperate and irresponsible solution.)GLG, obviouslyLOL, Like I said.

It just makes me laugh when people think they're so good, but then you come to find out they just know a little trick to give them an advantage.(Just who are you referring to here? Who are you aiming this bait/flame at?)This is a general statement aimed at the recurring instances in CC and/or life where someone/anyone acts like they are very good at something, but in reality have just found a way to make things easier for them. Bait? No. Flame? No. Its an observation. If the people in question would take offense to this statement, they need thicker skin, or less questionable tactics. Who said anything about being very good at something? It sure sounded as if you assumed whomever you were referring to stated that they were so good and also that they are not and maybe in other ways too.... You probably should proofread your posts if you didn't think this could be taken as a flame or bait.

The point is that there will always be a unsuspecting noob somewhere doing something for the first or thirtyfirst time. Such is life. At some point they will figure things out. Either way, it is not helping to vent everyone's frustrations out here. As it stands, freestyle games are setup as such. The only real way to fix it is to change how freestyle runs. It is not rocket science. That is why I put out there to take it over to the suggestions forum. That way they can take a look in earnest to see if there is a way to improve the game type to maybe exclude this type of play.The issue is not with the unsuspecting noobs, it is with the exploitation of the unsuspecting noobs. Honestly, you are coming off as clueless or are purposely ignoring the real issue. The issue is with freestyle and not with the 'exploitation of unsuspecting noobs'. You are just trying to use them to further exploit the crack left open by the GLG ruling. Don't be a dick. This tactic is being used not just against low ranking players(noob seems offensive yes?) , it is being used against all comers. And the very obvious reason is to go first. Allowing someone else to go first in a freestyle game on purpose would seem noobish to me. Let me also add that I don't think you should be telling anyone here who they can or can't play on this site. If I wanted to play low ranking players all the time, then you would just have to suck it up cupcake! I paid to play and there is no rank restriction for games. So, don't try to bring that up as a reason. Everyone has the right to decline to play if they so desire. Besides, the number of players that play freestyle games are not as high and the selection of players available for such games are a bit slimmer than for the other types of games.

Thanks,

J

Anyways, people can say what they want to justify these tactics. Fact is this. It may take time and it wont be easy, but just like real life, when someone finds a way to gain an unfair advantage, eventually (sometimes slowly) the law catches up. LOL @ "the law"... I am not trying to justify anything. It seemed that you may have needed some education on the subject and so I took it upon myself to try. Your reference to the law is hilarious. This is a gaming site and not 'the law'. I assume that you were referring to the rules of the site(I hope) and see that you still don't get it. Why do you think the flaw lies with the rules and not the game type? Do you truly think that crusading on behalf of more 'laws' will fix it? The more rules you add the crappier things get. Whats next? Oh I am not allowed to play you until you improve your rank? I might get banned. Oh Bother! That is just plain stupid. Why not instead focus on what might actually improve the site/game and try fixing that?

GLGHandled improperly.
Caymanmew or whatever the name is. Intentionally missing the deplpoy phase of City Mogul Manual so he/she can go first.Another game type issue!
People setting up games with 5 player to attract NR.Hogwash! This is a pretty shitty thing too. If I wanted to set up a 5 player, and it is an option that I could select, then I would do so. Otherwise, you should take away 5 player games as an option.

ALL of these things were at one time within the rules. The rules can change to prevent taking advantage of players.Like I said before, fix the game. Quit thinking like a dick and thinking you can make up a rule for everything you don't like about the site. In your world the rules page would be the largest on the site.

By the by, I am not trying to rile you up, it seems simple to me and you don't seem to get it. Sorry if you take offense to the wording.

Thanks,

J

[eddie2]

I think you have forgot to add that players on team 1 also play shots for there team mates if they are not online at the moment needed to play the shots. this is babysitting abuse because it is ussually done with 20 hours left on the clock to prevent them losing a bonus. the whole freestyle needs to be looked at and rules preventing all the abuse stopped.

That would actually be against existing rules, if you suspect this to happen you should file a C&A and the mods can look into this.

there has already been a couple of reports for this in c and a... the problem i see is if the players are from the same country then the other team have no way to tell if it is them or not playing... but it is something that is being abused.