HP: fight for freedom. Game over. Wizards won.

[alt1978]

his raises the question of why Spartacus would claim this action that would certainly result in him getting caught after we lynch mc05025. The answer: hell if I know. He hasn't been terribly logical so far, why start now? The best theory I can come up with is that he was screwed over by a claim that he can't back up anyway so he thought he might as well claim a result that would get somebody lynched. (Thus forcing a mislynch and letting him live one more day.) The only other option that I could see being available to him in his position would be to claim to have had his power target safariguy and just tell us stuff we already knew.

So, Vote Spartacus Jr.
And yeah, I echo the sentiments of frustration with this game/day that others have expressed. I feel that we are going to make the "wrong" lynch today. And that I won't really be able to hold that mistake against any of the people who vote for it due to the circumstances leading up to it. The blame here pretty much all falls on mc05025 for the way he handled his own defense. (And also those who screwed us out of our chance to lynch Spartacus2 yesterday...)

Great post speisr.
I think i was and have been wrong. i can understand where mc is coming from...and once he actually came out and explained who he was and why he did what he was doing...i can see it. The fact that sparticus chose a character that was somewhat scummy (submarining a bit yesterday) makes sense...because it wouldn't set off any alarms. I was one of the ones who spiesr is talking about preventing sparticus's lynch yesterday. I probably got safari killed (at least contributed largely).

To safariguy...I apologize.

To keep going down the same path just because i have committed to an idea is an even greater wrong. For now...I would like to

UNVOTE

and give it some more thought.

In reflecting on how i came to this point...all i can say is that i got too sucked into flavor. I couldn't get past snape not being a major...has to be in the game player. Safari even explained it to me...but i was too suspicious of harry dying night one to listen to him. I just couldn't for the life of me see snape not being counter-claimed...and not being good. So much so...that i was blinded by some things that didn't add up about sparticus's claim.

I don't apologize for not lynching sparticus yesterday...i apologize for not playing the game very well and getting caught up in flavor. I will try to see the mafia first and flavor only as background.

Again...my bad safari guy. In reflecting on it...I think i owe you a public apology.

[safariguy5]

I'm having a good time reading this. No worries about possible hurt feelings alt or anyone else. It's a game. If I wanted to be all stressed out, I'd go play some more risk.


And @ the ME3, Quarian vs. Geth= Intimidate+save both.

[SPARTACUS1974]

Well, well, well. I waited to see what wonders would happen and the wonder is why I wondered at all!! So, yes MC you are quite right to say kill Spart. Now we can do that tomorrow. Today is your lucky day ... unvote (if required): vote MC

So, I think this vote puts us back to L-1. I personally think that it would be a mistake to end the day before we can wring more information out of Spartacus. So, mc05025, you might want to take your extra vote off of yourself to get a little breathing room back. On the other hand, the results of this lynch should more or less confirm him one way or the other.
The flip side to that though is that I currently feel like I believe mc05025's current claim more than I believe Spartacus2. A lynch of Spartacus2 has the same confirm/deny effect on mc05025, so I feel that we should give this some serious thought here. I mean, aren't we going to have to lynch Spartacus at some point no matter what?
Anyhow, I suppose that if I am going to officially come down on mc05025's side I might as well try to cobble together some sort of defense for him. One thing that comes to mind off hand is that mc05025's insistence that people remove their votes from him immediately without any reason makes a little more sense when now that you can see that his plan for his defense was to add another vote to himself. It's somewhat more reasonable, but still poorly handled, that he would want the extra room before adding another vote to himself. (Why he thought he needed to vote himself is still beyond me...)
And then of course there is the big point of why did Spartacus2 not see mc05025's double voting power. I can only think of two options that make sense right now.
1. Spartacus lied.
2. mc05025 has a scum mate double voter who is helping him out.
The second option certainly can't be ruled out, but I think the first is more likely. This raises the question of why Spartacus would claim this action that would certainly result in him getting caught after we lynch mc05025. The answer: hell if I know. He hasn't been terribly logical so far, why start now? The best theory I can come up with is that he was screwed over by a claim that he can't back up anyway so he thought he might as well claim a result that would get somebody lynched. (Thus forcing a mislynch and letting him live one more day.) The only other option that I could see being available to him in his position would be to claim to have had his power target safariguy and just tell us stuff we already knew.

So, Vote Spartacus Jr.
And yeah, I echo the sentiments of frustration with this game/day that others have expressed. I feel that we are going to make the "wrong" lynch today. And that I won't really be able to hold that mistake against any of the people who vote for it due to the circumstances leading up to it. The blame here pretty much all falls on mc05025 for the way he handled his own defense. (And also those who screwed us out of our chance to lynch Spartacus2 yesterday...)

Okay, I'm coming around here to spiesr's view. Let's look...

ok here is the info i got last night my path was crossed by Fenrir greyback , his power works every other night when he turns from human to werewolf so for this
vote mc025

His power works every other night.

Ok Everywhere ... what happened with Survivor?

Well the tribe voted out Jonas, blindsiding him. This despite the fact that he was the best cook they had. I'm not sure what this has to do with the game though.

Sparty, you're going to have to clarify. You got MC's role PM, right? Who is Fenrir, what is his power, and why should we vote for him?

yes that is mc role his power is every other night not sure which he can attack sometimes they die other times the survive but are stoped from using there powers due to being injured . not sure if he is a deatheater or allied to them ?

SPART is clearly saying that his role is a werewolf with power every other night...blah, blah, blah.

I don't know why I didn't see it earlier, but the fact that MC was confident to prove his role is a daytime power, and then proved it with a double vote makes sense. Yes, there could be a mafia double voter out there covering for him...but unlikely. MC was too cocky and confident to prove his power was during the day, not night. If he would have just come out and said it, it would have been much clearer. I think his lying and beating around the bush distracted me.

So, with that in mind, SPART's disjointed explanations start to be clearer as to why they are disjointed and terrible. I don't think he's getting shiznit from the mod. I think he's made it all up, and I wish I could go back to yesterday and lynch him.

UNVOTE VOTE SPARTACUS

To further my point, SPART states below (very clearly, actually) that he gets moved around randomly with another wizard, and that if the wizard he is moved around with is visited by a night action, he will know. That means that Fenrir would have visited someone else last night and most likely killed or blocked that person. Unless someone got blocked last night, then MC was paired with Safariguy, who died. However, seems odd that Fenrir would be the only kill...unless he was the mafia agent. I would almost expect two kills with a Fenrir in the game. Okay, now I'm getting into mod=-land...but those are my thoughts, and my new vote.

You are Severus Snape ( Wizard Hunter )

You always had a fond for dark magic, soon recruited to the deatheaters in your youth,but you came to realize the true side you needed to be on when you joined Albus who had no respect for such magic.
So now you follow Albus' wishes and fight against the dark lord and his deatheaters.
green part.

my power is every other night i get moved around randomly with another wizard good and bad so if a deatheater tries to block us ,bus us , well any night activity i find out there roles.
the downside is as im using dark magic this is not good i can only use this info for a few times before i turn and go back to the dark side and rejoin the deatheaters.

the role can be very usefull to town if only for the first couple of nights to get info then after that before i turn you have to kill me i do not know the exact amount of times i can use this power but im guessing not to many between 2or3.

thats all i can say about my role without getting mod killed lol.


i suggest taking a look at the ones who are still screaming for a lynch.

So mc says something diff from what i saw nice play by him , so how hard is it to get a scum buddy to place a second vote? im sure mafia would have there own little plan if any of them get outed as they know each others roles .
just look at n1 how did harry die when saf was protecting him ? because mafia worked together somehow blocking saf then killing harry . so if they can do that im sure they can use the extra vote to help another scum mate.

as to James potter he is a flashback in the films so why would he be here now ? who will mc05 claim next the headless ghost.

[pancakemix]

6) Drake_259 Replaced by Pancakemix- where'd you go PCM?

Um, I'm here and I've been posting? Yesterday I was busy and I have to go to class in about 15 minutes, but before that I was trying to keep this day from becoming a waste and going by to fast. IMO, this has been avoided. Hopefully no one gets lynched before I get a chance to actually read all of this.

[Iron Butterfly]

The point I am making is that it is pretty short sighted to put forth the beleif that the only way mc can manipulate his vote is by the help of someone else. I have put forward a possibility of him being a JOAT, that would make more sense then someone else voting for him.

How can you rectify mc05025 being a JOAT with the information that Spartacus posted as his result? You have tried some vague hand wave about the mod hiding information. If Spartacus had claimed that his result just turned up the name of mc05025's role (like: Death Eater Werewolf or whatever) then I could by him not knowing what exactly mc05025 can or can't do. But, Spartacus claims (or at least appears to) that he got a description of what mc05025's abilities are. So, unless Spartacus' role returns incorrect results, he should have know that mc05025 could make an extra vote. Therefor I conclude that either mc05025 got someone else to cast that vote, or the what Spartacus poster is wrong. It would certainly help matters if Spartacus would actually answer the fucking questions that I have asked him about his powers and his result though...

My logic has been explained and it is as good an explanation as any. I played a Town Joat my last game my powers were Double.vote, invetigate, doc. I never claimed I was right but it does make sense to me. One can not say there is no such thing as a mafia JOAT. I do not know why his double vote was not included.

Frankly at this point I have no idea who is telling the truth. What frustrates me is that these roles should not be so complicated. I really have beleived that Sparticas is who he is but every time he speaks in his own defense I tend to cringe. We have also caught MC in a very big lie. Harry Potter fans knew it from the start.

By both players admission they are now expendable. MC is now a Vanilla Townie as he has said his role is now useless. Sparticas will turn Feathe eater.

The question we now must ask is that if we lynch the wrong player what will be the damage to Town by the other player and overall.. If Sparticas is telling the truth and we lynch Sparticas there is a stromg possibility that Mafia can get an extra kill in tonight if MC is a werewolf. We also lose a valuable tool as Sparticas has said he can use his power several times befor turning.

If we lynch MC and he is telling the truth we are not sure what the damage to Town will be by letting Sparticas live. We only lose a voting Town person.

MC has said that his suicide option is no longer possible...so I would like to know what "possibly" could have happened by his suicide. I do not see how telling that information could hurt town now. It would also help decide if he is really being truthful by adding one more piede to the puzzle.

For now I willUnvote MC

[Leehar]

I'm having a good time reading this. No worries about possible hurt feelings alt or anyone else. It's a game. If I wanted to be all stressed out, I'd go play some more risk.


And @ the ME3, Quarian vs. Geth= Intimidate+save both.

Talia's Quarian? Who's Geth then?

[strike wolf]

I'm having a good time reading this. No worries about possible hurt feelings alt or anyone else. It's a game. If I wanted to be all stressed out, I'd go play some more risk.


And @ the ME3, Quarian vs. Geth= Intimidate+save both.

Talia's Quarian? Who's Geth then?

Legion is Geth.

[Leehar]

the big huge guy? Or am I thinking of the wrong person?
At least I'm pretty sure Reapers are the baddies, so hopefully I'm not embarassing myself too much considering my sig :$

[Nebuchadnezer]

Please spam elsewhere...

[strike wolf]

That's Legion. I assume by the big guy you mean Grunt or Wreav?

anyways back on topic. I think some good points have been made. I'm going to say this either way, regardless of which way the tide turns in this game I am not voting MC05025. I believe his claim more than I believe Spartacus (I still think he should have been lynched yesterday) and Spartacus seems like the less risky lynch considering he's eventually going to become a death Eater (Or endgamed?) anyways. I'll disagree even out in the open MC would be at the least more useful than an outed commuter.

[Djfireside]

Im reading up and unfortunately was stuck trying to defend myself in another mafia and was so jammed into that I kinda let this one slide. Im going to gather my thoughts on this and as I was skimming through (dont worry im reading it again) Did MC's power ever come into effect. I know he got pretty far down on the voting scale but I never saw the demonstration. Off to find facts. Ill be back

[Bleed_Green]

Yesterday has come back to bite us in the ass squarely.

This is how I see it.

Spartacus actions were only useful if some did a night action would he gain information. He came back with MC is a werewolf every other night, but was counter with a lie that was caught. Then MC stats that it was time to be truthful which he comes out with James Potter as a Double Voter.

If we Lynch MC today and he comes back has James Potter we have Spartacus in a lie for tomorrows lynch.

If we lynch Spartacus today we will be in the same boat tomorrow since we can verify what he says on MC cause the werewolf actions won't take place until N4 which also Spartacus action takes place. Spartacus at that point could possibly be changed to a death eater since it was stated that it will be a random time that this will occur.

You are Severus Snape ( Wizard Hunter )

You always had a fond for dark magic, soon recruited to the deatheaters in your youth,but you came to realize the true side you needed to be on when you joined Albus who had no respect for such magic.
So now you follow Albus' wishes and fight against the dark lord and his deatheaters.
green part.

my power is every other night i get moved around randomly with another wizard good and bad so if a deatheater tries to block us ,bus us , well any night activity i find out there roles.
the downside is as im using dark magic this is not good i can only use this info for a few times before i turn and go back to the dark side and rejoin the deatheaters.

the role can be very usefull to town if only for the first couple of nights to get info then after that before i turn you have to kill me i do not know the exact amount of times i can use this power but im guessing not to many between 2or3.

thats all i can say about my role without getting mod killed lol.


i suggest taking a look at the ones who are still screaming for a lynch.

Above is Spartacus Role Claim:

Fillius was pretty proud of nis new barrier, which holded all known deatheaters aside. However, the wizards knew they had spies among them, but they also knew they couldn't act directly, as it would immediatly break their cover. So the night went on peacefully, aside the constant attacks on the barrier, of course..

Dawn broke early, or so it seemed for those who constatly fought off the enemy. But it wasn't the only thing who broke early; A breach had been open, and at least one deatheater broke into it. However, nobody were prepared, and only a single wizard was around to stop the hooded devil, and soon a fight broke off.

After what seemed an hour, another wizard saw flashes of red and green light, and rushed to see the poor wizard down to his knees, the deatheater victorious in his fight. The elder wizard shouted an alarm, and rushed to the wizard shouting:

You shall not get another wizard!


Sadly, it seemed he did.

Safariguy5--Molly weasley ( Wizard Bodyguard ) Has been killed

Day 3 starts. 14 days before deadline.

The above night shows that elder wizard witnessed the death of Safariaguy. Which very well could have been Spartacus since he does not know exactly who he crossed paths with and witnessed MC.

Both of their game play is standing out to be scummy!! I have to think this through a little more but just wanted to share what I seen so far...

[Djfireside]

Sorry this is long and im laying out facts so I will write them as I see them

Okay so we have Spart 2.0

You are Severus Snape ( Wizard Hunter )

You always had a fond for dark magic, soon recruited to the deatheaters in your youth,but you came to realize the true side you needed to be on when you joined Albus who had no respect for such magic.
So now you follow Albus' wishes and fight against the dark lord and his deatheaters.
green part.

my power is every other night i get moved around randomly with another wizard good and bad so if a deatheater tries to block us ,bus us , well any night activity i find out there roles.
the downside is as im using dark magic this is not good i can only use this info for a few times before i turn and go back to the dark side and rejoin the deatheaters.

the role can be very usefull to town if only for the first couple of nights to get info then after that before i turn you have to kill me i do not know the exact amount of times i can use this power but im guessing not to many between 2or3.

thats all i can say about my role without getting mod killed lol.


i suggest taking a look at the ones who are still screaming for a lynch.

He in turn is going to be evil. Whether he is yet or not is TBD. Keep him on the back burner. He is on trial but only based if MC is lying.

So he claimed that MC's role is:

ok here is the info i got last night my path was crossed by Fenrir greyback , his power works every other night when he turns from human to werewolf so for this
vote mc025

There is NO detail here. NONE! Why would you post this without the detail. LOOKS HORRIBLE

Can back after a few people came and explained who Fenrir was and got

yes that is mc role his power is every other night not sure which he can attack sometimes they die other times the survive but are stoped from using there powers due to being injured . not sure if he is a deatheater or allied to them ?

Okay... but why not say this to start? If you are going to be a information gatherer, Put it all out there. You messed this up before and you got lynched... If nothing more learn from it but you are only getting a small lashing because MC's antics are overshadowing yours...

Now on to MC. The fun part.

NOTE: I MAY TAKE OUT NOT NEEDED INFO LIKE HIM GOING TO SLEEP JUST TO GET IT SHORTER.

So Spartacus now I referring straight to you so that I can prove your story is craps without reviling my power.

Based to what you learnt about my character my power is only during night. Right? Is there any possibility that I have powers during the day too?
Did you learn all my powers or when I reveal my truth power you will say that you might did not know that I had that power too?

(because if needed to revile my power during that day I do not want to read any more stories from you. So if you have to say more things about me and prove yourself guilty without my help you are free to do so)

have to sleep. The rest tomorrow

Okay so here MC comes out and states that he has powers at night and day. Stating "Is there any chance I have day powers too?!?" So keep this in mind and im coloring it for later use. -1

So, before revealing information helpful for deatheaters I want to make a small investigation. Be patient. The proof (if needed) will come most likely tomorrow

Okay? Where was this? What investigation? None of your roles stated give investigations. -1

My role is not a central character

I am Regulus Arcturus Black

For those who do not read the books Regulus Black was the brother of Serious Black

He was initially a deatheater but when he found out how evil Voltemort was he changed his mind and suicide himself in order to find and destroy one of his Horkruxes (those things that kept Voldemort alive)

So my power is the ability to suicide in return of something I am not going to reveal.


As I said my power is during the day. During the day I can not suicide but I can vote myself using an extra vote. (so instead of my regular vote I have an extra vote to place to myself. In addition I am forced not to place it to myself but the mod only can place it. So the mod will place a vote to me which will be like
''??? vote mc05025'' so that people can not know who voted for me if I do not want to reveal it. If I die using that extra vote something will happen which I am not going to reveal

To make the long story short I have the power to make the mod write here ''??? vote mcHammer''
You will see that message when the mod is online
I am not going to reveal what will happen when I die after I have used the suicide vote but it is too soon to die like that and nothing will happen at the moment.

Okay so now he is a set voter on himself with a second power. Attempting to scare town by stating that he has other powers and we should be afraid? This only comes into play later becasue he claims same role just a bit softer. Is he trying to scare off scum into thinking they should leave him be? I dont get it.

Plus going around the bush about a power that I wont show and beating around the bush with it, yeah its a scare tactic but you are pushed to the limit and you are giving us this?

Which leads us to

So here is my truth identity. Not that I believe that I will convince you as you have already decided to follow Spartacus but at least I will die and my team lose not because of my mistakes .

This is the green part of my pm
I have already ask freezie to put the extra vote to me but he is too lazy.

You are James Potter ( Wizard Doublevoter )

Father of the most popular Harry Potter, you died to the hands of Voldemort after your friend
Peter betrayed you and Lily. Shadowy events brought you back to the living world, somehow,
and right in the middle of the fight against your very own killer. This time, however, you are
prepared...

So we have James Potter, Both of his selections are charecters that I would have not expected. James while more well known and holds a point in the game I could see possibly, out of 18 charecters available doesnt seem to fit. Thats just my belief.


Now that we have their statements out of the way lets look how the game progress.

Spart states that he can kill every other night. Two people died first night, one the second so this fits.

The double vote has been shown but that only really shows that there is a double voter about and while it could be MC telling the truth he has pushed himself too far down the scum path.

My vote stays for the following reason:

1) MC Made his own statement that he had night powers and asking about his day powers, which means that he should have both. Since he never accounted for night powers. LIE

2) MC made up a fake claim with similar powers but with a twist to his other fake claim. Then claimed another one. LIE

3) Spart just cant relay information and puts himself in the scum position and I dont believe him most of the time but MC hung himself on this one. If he truly was town and just came out to state who he was, it would have been different. His role is not something that is a game breaker for mafia to find out like harry was and there I would have expected a lie (DAMN IT BOY!) but all his turning the tides around and mixing things up for me killed it.

4) He hasnt actually tried to defend himself just string up lies and hasnt come up with any alterior solutions or anything.

As stated, my vote stays.

[Djfireside]

As a secondary thing, According to what Bleed stated it made me go and read back.

Bleed is wrong in stating that another wizard knows about this, Safari choose to protect someone and succeeded.

Well done!

So another point to look for is who Safari could have been protecting since it should be out in the open somewhere

[mc05025]

1. Spartacus lied.
2. mc05025 has a scum mate double voter who is helping him out.

Firstly I do not conciser my play good. The good play would have been lied about my truth identity and convince you I am innocent. Then killing Spartacus and anyone believe me as Spartacus was lying. I failed to convince you, so my whole plan failed and so I messed up the whole situation. So my play was bad. But that does not mean you have to kill me.

Why someone should helping me? How I can not be a double voter? why a scam should help me when innocent people are more likely to have the ability of the double voter. I can not follow your logic.

Do you still believe my craps about the suicide? lol. I said I made everything up.

[mc05025]

Okay so here MC comes out and states that he has powers at night and day. Stating "Is there any chance I have day powers too?!?" So keep this in mind and im coloring it for later use. -1

1) MC Made his own statement that he had night powers and asking about his day powers, which means that he should have both. Since he never accounted for night powers. LIE

As stated, my vote stays.

At that point I believed I can prove that I have the power of the double voter. So the only thing I was afraid was that after proving I have the power that Spartacus did not mention he would change his mind and say that I might had that power too.

So I asked him if I had any powers during day and waiting his answer would be a 'no'
Instead he said that he does not know if I had any powers during day (except from my power during night) which means that he was afraid I reveal a power during the day and so none will believe him.

So I never said or claim I had a power at night. (the way I ASKED him if I have powers during day too does not mean I said I had powers at night... I do not think that is that complicated)

[spiesr]

Spart states that he can kill every other night. Two people died first night, one the second so this fits.

The only person to die night 1 was Jonty.

[Djfireside]

So Spartacus now I referring straight to you so that I can prove your story is craps without reviling my power.

Based to what you learnt about my character my power is only during night. Right? Is there any possibility that I have powers during the day too?
Did you learn all my powers or when I reveal my truth power you will say that you might did not know that I had that power too?

(because if needed to revile my power during that day I do not want to read any more stories from you. So if you have to say more things about me and prove yourself guilty without my help you are free to do so)

have to sleep. The rest tomorrow

I can see what you are getting at but even your statement

Based to what you learnt about my character my power is only during night. Right? Is there any possibility that I have powers during the day too?

Did you learn all my powers or when I reveal my truth power you will say that you might did not know that I had that power too?

I know english is not your first language and I am working with that in mind I am but from my point of view, if you were going to try to catch him by drawing him out but you were not saying you didnt have those powers only that you may have day powers too.

If all you would have said was no, those are not my powers but I do have one and Ill prove it would have made this an entirely different discussion. But you didnt. And once that point passed all you did was jump around and hide and lie and basically look extremely scummy.

[pancakemix]

Alright, I finally have a minute. Here are my thoughts:

- MC, you shouldn't have lied. The case can be made that lying as town is not always a bad thing. It was here. I think the main problem was you said you were trying to hide something from the mafia. I'm not sure what exactly there was to hide. If you're just a double voter, there's nothing particularly special about that, certainly not enough to justify a lie such as the one you gave.

- Finally, Spart's web is coming undone. As I said yesterday, the claim, I think if communicated properly, could have been somewhat viable. Given the situation was not so ideal, Occam's Razor would suggest otherwise. As such, I stand by my position. Vote Spart

- I'll agree with what some have said that I don't think saf was the target of last night's kill. It's very likely he put his promise to die for town into full swing.

- I'm truly suspicious of those who immediately jumped on MC. There was a reason I wanted the discussion to continue and not have a speed lynch, and given how much debate there was yesterday, I'm amazed it got that far that quickly.

That's all for now. My battery's low and my connection's bad. I'll return later.

[Djfireside]

Spart states that he can kill every other night. Two people died first night, one the second so this fits.

The only person to die night 1 was Jonty.

You are right. I dont know why I thought two went down first night. that does put a bit of a hole into it. I have to say I am a bit torn between the two as I stated but was sticking my course because MC looked worse than spart at this point as stated. There just appears to be too much on MC but the secret voter portion and now the night kill has me waffling a bit again but the fact that he stated the double vote in the forum instead of just doing it and saying it after it was done. There are so many questionable things on both sides. Spart and his lack of information and coming back with it after tha fact, MC and his whole story... Did someone cast ridiculous?!?

[strike wolf]

Personal opinion on the double voter thing. It's possible to have a mafia voter. It's not even teh least likely role a mafia member could have however it's a role that becomes significantly more effective especially towards endgame for mafia when it can give them the win a day early (5 mafia. 11 alive 6 to lynch. the mafia could determine the lynch by themselves by virtue of the double vote). It would probably increase the chances of various town roles being in the game. I am not sure I should go into detail about which at this point as I am not convinced it would do more good than harm.

[everywhere116]

Vote Spartacus

While I will chastise MC for lying about his role, I do actually believe him. It wasn't anything I would have done in his situation, but I can reasonably chalk his actions up to the noob mistake of thinking that his role was more valuable than it actually was. I cannot get around Spartacus' claim. I cannot dismiss the horrid grammar mistakes in the green part of his PM. I cannot dismiss him contradicting himself on almost every page (this is more yesterday stuff, but is still relevant). I cannot see dismiss the incredible lack of detail in MC's, as we can see now, most likely false werewolf role. I cannot dismiss the fact that he said he will turn into a Death Eater and, once again, lacked detail.

[Iron Butterfly]

Alright, I finally have a minute. Here are my thoughts:

- MC, you shouldn't have lied. The case can be made that lying as town is not always a bad thing. It was here. I think the main problem was you said you were trying to hide something from the mafia. I'm not sure what exactly there was to hide. If you're just a double voter, there's nothing particularly special about that, certainly not enough to justify a lie such as the one you gave.

- Finally, Spart's web is coming undone. As I said yesterday, the claim, I think if communicated properly, could have been somewhat viable. Given the situation was not so ideal, Occam's Razor would suggest otherwise. As such, I stand by my position. Vote Spart

- I'll agree with what some have said that I don't think saf was the target of last night's kill. It's very likely he put his promise to die for town into full swing.

- I'm truly suspicious of those who immediately jumped on MC. There was a reason I wanted the discussion to continue and not have a speed lynch, and given how much debate there was yesterday, I'm amazed it got that far that quickly.

That's all for now. My battery's low and my connection's bad. I'll return later.

Sparts web is coming undone? Are you serious? Sparticas has NOT been caught in a lie. Because he did not mention MCs "day power" does not mean he is lieing. The worst Sparticas can be accused of is poor communication skills.

We now have several instances of MC lieing. Its one thing to make a fake claim out of fear but MCs was deep and intricate..it wasnt some fly by night fake claim. DJ has poked further holes and what I would call damning slips of the pen. In the context presented it is very telling.

DJ made a mistake about two deaths night one...but it is possible that Safari was blocked by MC. So we are now setting a precedent of letting people lie...several times. It was a DEEP DEEP lie. So the next person who gets caught and changes his story can "possibly" get a free pass?

Vote MC

I dont vote lightly and when I do i usually stick to my guns. I withdrew my vote out of real doubt. DJ picked up on some very small things that were very telling. I can not beleive people are giving such leeway to MC.

MC tried to blame folks because they felt we beleived Sparticas over him...NOT because he lied. My vote stands...let the chips fall where they may.

[dazza2008]

I think we need to lynch MC here. If we lynch Spart we will spend the whole of the game wondering if MC is telling the truth or not.

I know Spart needs to be killed soon too as he will change but I think that can wait till tomorrow or even tonight if we have a Vig.

[everywhere116]

I think we need to lynch MC here. If we lynch Spart we will spend the whole of the game wondering if MC is telling the truth or not.

I know Spart needs to be killed soon too as he will change but I think that can wait till tomorrow or even tonight if we have a Vig.

What makes you think we have a vig?