PKMN Chap 2: Day 6(5/18)

[shieldgenerator7]

lshicastr Doom your bold tags are messed up, same as in OP

[jonty125]

So what IS your opinion nag?

Not aimed at me, but I'll throw my thoughts into the pot. I see it as slightly scummy how he kept dodging SG7's questions with his misquoted defense (he was actually misquoted, but only slightly). And feel that he was making a mountain out of a molehill over it.

[Eldario]

Vote PMC, did not vote in my previous post since I was not sure on the vote count and felt that he should have a chance to claim

[pmchugh]

I have returned from the Easter, hopefully my second appearance will be a bit more active and constructive.

But I don't understand why, if as PMC says "I did not want to vote zimmah, and I did not belive that Zimmah was scum", then why did you, de facto vote for him?
Where Team Rocket mayhaps standing behind you with a vicious Wobbuffet, threatening your life?, Or where you in fact taking personal vengeance for that time when Zhimmah chose the Charmander you where going to choose on your 10th birthday?, Or is the simple truth that you are, de facto the evil mastermind behind it all?


(P.S. why could I not come up with this earlier.... )

Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

[jonty125]

I have returned from the Easter, hopefully my second appearance will be a bit more active and constructive.

But I don't understand why, if as PMC says "I did not want to vote zimmah, and I did not belive that Zimmah was scum", then why did you, de facto vote for him?
Where Team Rocket mayhaps standing behind you with a vicious Wobbuffet, threatening your life?, Or where you in fact taking personal vengeance for that time when Zhimmah chose the Charmander you where going to choose on your 10th birthday?, Or is the simple truth that you are, de facto the evil mastermind behind it all?


(P.S. why could I not come up with this earlier.... )

Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

[strike wolf]

I have returned from the Easter, hopefully my second appearance will be a bit more active and constructive.

But I don't understand why, if as PMC says "I did not want to vote zimmah, and I did not belive that Zimmah was scum", then why did you, de facto vote for him?
Where Team Rocket mayhaps standing behind you with a vicious Wobbuffet, threatening your life?, Or where you in fact taking personal vengeance for that time when Zhimmah chose the Charmander you where going to choose on your 10th birthday?, Or is the simple truth that you are, de facto the evil mastermind behind it all?


(P.S. why could I not come up with this earlier.... )

Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

The deadline's already been extended to next friday if I remember correctly.

Replacement for crazymilkshake found. Possible replacement for Fircoal found (unless he wants to continue playing). Further information will come soon.

Since activity on the whole has picked up, and there are new players coming in, I can extend the deadline to Friday April 20. That will be the only extension though.

And I do remember correctly.

[pmchugh]

OK I missed the deadline extension thats fine.

I have returned from the Easter, hopefully my second appearance will be a bit more active and constructive.

But I don't understand why, if as PMC says "I did not want to vote zimmah, and I did not belive that Zimmah was scum", then why did you, de facto vote for him?
Where Team Rocket mayhaps standing behind you with a vicious Wobbuffet, threatening your life?, Or where you in fact taking personal vengeance for that time when Zhimmah chose the Charmander you where going to choose on your 10th birthday?, Or is the simple truth that you are, de facto the evil mastermind behind it all?


(P.S. why could I not come up with this earlier.... )

Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

I'm still re-reading, I am not going to claim just yet, as I believe in the towns ability to turn this one around before that. If someone wants to force a claim they can by promising a vote (presuming they haven't already voted) but I will ask that they hear me out first.

[kratos644]

I'm going to temporarily unvote to give you a chance to defend yourself. See I can be reasonable
This way you can't be put to -1 from the next vote placed on you at least.

[pmchugh]

Firstly I am going to attempt to explain my own motives in this game and then I am going to run you through my opinions of the day.

My initial reaction to the zimmah case was that it didn't make sense but it was also important to keep up suspicions on other players. This is reflected in the summary line of my first post in response to freezie:

I think that there is some serious ill logic by zimmah but that doesn't absolve you of using ill logic in your rather aggressive style of defense.

I continued along this line of reasoning, you will see me asking zimmah questions so that he may defend himself but I never in these early days actually cast suspicion on him. In fact the people who were getting my suspicions were:

There are plenty of people who look rather suspicious in the way they have slowly egged this case on without having the guts to throw a vote in and the chances are you wont get lynched over something so small unless a deadline comes around.

However none of this excuses you, can you please explain your train of thought because I still do not follow. If you think it wasn't a joke does that mean you believe freezie genuinely claimed miller?

On the next page I vote for one of these people:

Ahh a classic "I don't think he's scum but his action was scummy. I'll watch the bandwagon but only vote if nothing else comes up" post

vote shield

For the attempted town tell that just sounded like he was scared to commit to either opinion.

I then started to stick up for zimmah and I even had to explain why I was sticking up for him:

Shield may be an easy lynch but zimmah is the easiest lynch. It is easy to agree with everyone, it is easy to pick out the flaws in his logic, it is easy to lynch the first guy who says something which doesn't quite add up, it is easy to blend in with the crowd.. it is difficult to change the focus and if you were his partner not only is it difficult but it is also risky.

However from that point on I started to get frustrated that he wasn't answering questions and then someone actually made a good point against him (that is separate from the initial case):

As for my thoughts on zimmah; I think he's been so bull-headed with his absurd notion because he didn't want to get called out for not sticking to his guns.

Best point made against him so far. Even now he has not taken back his vote on freezie.

From then on I have pretty much had to defend myself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK here are my reads on all the players. This early in the game I am probably not going to be too accurate especially given the number of low count posters. I also have too many town reads

Town Reads
Strike Wolf- Seems to be rational and paying close attention to the game. It should be noted that he is playing the "against the grain" strategy by sticking up for freezie, zimmah and me while still questioning them. Obviously it is my opinion this is a town move.

Edoc- He seemed to be one of the few people who believed zimmah to be a genuine case. He has cast suspicion on a variety of people since and as such seems to be playing as town.

Kratos- Although he made a case against me he was the most sensible in doing so. He even mentioned it in advance of doing so and then continued to look for alternative scum when the votes heated up on me.

Leaning Town
Haggis- Although he has posted little what he has posted has all made sense. He put forward a reasonable case against jonty and although he was on the zimmah wagon at least he gave him something to answer to.

Shield- Shield is being his usual self. He actually has a few scum reads but it wouldn't be right if he didn't. Overall I rate him as leaning town because he actually made a case on tails and I liked his use of meta on nag and edoc. Warning- he has been BWing though.

Jonty- Despite good points raised against him he doesn't strike me as maf. Mainly because he has kept a high post rate and dropped lots of opinions and questions, this strategy would be risky as mafia.

Iron Butterfly- I'm surprised that he has came out in my defence considering he was one of the "this game is boring" people. This initially made me think he was town because he is looking beyond his annoyance to see who is actually maf. I am unsure however if he used the boring thing purely as an excuse for not posting though.

Null reads
Eldario- Has generally seemed OK but too few posts for me to form an opinion.

Clever- He seems to be jumping about opinions. First he thought the zimmah case was not worth considering, then he pushed the zimmah case and then he pushed on me for pushing the zimmah case! Not sure what to make of this.

Zimmah- After all that time I still don't know what to think on him. I think the best point in his defence was that "mafia wouldn't be that obvious". However he has largely been unhelpful all day despite being the centre of attention.

Sully- If he was any one else he would be in mafia section but I just don't know what to make of sully ever as he maf tells so hard I kinda want to policy lynch him but that wouldn't reveal enough information, there are better kills out there.

Fircoal- Seemed ok at the start of the day but has become far too inactive to give a read.

Leaning Mafia
freezie- Quick turn around from sticking up for me to suspected me- I don't understand why. Also attempted to push third party claim onto zimmah, this is often done by mafia when they see suspicious behaviour. This was reduced by the fact it was "lyncher" that he chose but he is still not completely off the hook IMO.

Tails- Mostly one liners trying to not give anything away. Reared his head only to dismiss the case made by sg7 and then dropped under the radar again.

Nag- This one I have mainly stated in the last few posts I have made, however I would like to add that he has been quite OMGUS and wishy washy. On zimmah he simultaneously claimed there was nothing to be gained from the discussion and also that he thought he could be scum with freezie. Then he admitted he didn't suspect me right up until when I suspected him, OMGUS. (also omgusd ironB in the same post).

Milkshake/Rodion- I was tempted to put this in null reads cause of the lack of posts but I really disliked milkshakes one post. I will go into detail on request.

Pancake- He is my number one target for a lynch today.

Firstly at the start of the day he contributed little, mostly one liners and all of them were just blending in with the town:

was zimmah here for DoomYoshi's first pokemon mafia? I don't remember. If he wasn't then he might not have gotten the joke and would have thought freezie was serious.

Does it matter? I wasn't in that game and I got it that it was one...

Seconded. Freezie brought it up in signups and Zimmah even quoted it. Not sure where the disconnect is.

The next quote is a little more revealing:

Zimmah, I think the actual problem with your case on freezie is that it relies on him having incentive as mafia (a point on which there is no evidence to suggest) to appeal back to that claim should he be investigated. The thing is, he won't. Because it was a joke. And you know this. Yet you insist on pushing this and all you have done is called the ire of the town upon yourself.

I will grant you, however, that it does appear that jonty skimmed.

It is almost like he is telling zimmah off for playing badly. I am always suspicios of this type of post because it suggests knowledge of zimmahs alignment.

This is exactly what I said freezie WOULDN'T do because he COULDN'T do it. If he tried, he'd be laughed at all the way to the gallows.

Despite this he continues to offer up small arguments in favour of the zimmah case.. just trying to blend in IMO.

Vote PMC

Quit beating a dead fucking horse.

I've been silent for however long this has been going because the discussion was fucking boring. I don't want to watch an unstoppable force beat on an immovable object. It's lame, and if 10 pages of discussion aren't an indication, it's not going to get resolved. Everyone else has said "let's drop this", and few even saw it as a scumtell. Why are you choosing to bring up again that which no one wants to discuss.

Note that pancake was one of the first to vote me, and nowhere in the entire post does he once suggest that I am mafia. His vote is purely because he is sick of what I am doing. (suck on that freezie ) This is not entirely scummy since he was one of the first to vote, but what is scummy is the timing of his disappearance. He has let the BW build without ever commenting on whether he thinks I am mafia or not. It seems he is deliberately lurking in the hope that you guys push me to claim and he gets off scot free.

Vote PMC

Quit beating a dead fucking horse.

I've been silent for however long this has been going because the discussion was fucking boring. I don't want to watch an unstoppable force beat on an immovable object. It's lame, and if 10 pages of discussion aren't an indication, it's not going to get resolved. Everyone else has said "let's drop this", and few even saw it as a scumtell. Why are you choosing to bring up again that which no one wants to discuss.

well you being silent does absolutely nothing for us..instead of being silent why dont you say something to get the game moving ...that really makes me mad ..."oh im not gonna talk because you guys are just going back and forth" well why dont you say something that gets us off the subject cause if anyone had that mentality where would we be? *steps off soap box* sorry just had a mini rant

I just now said something to get this to move on. Before that, it relies on something to actually draw from. I suppose I could have pulled that out at any time, but at this point PMC just seems to be dragging the case for no real reason after everyone has agreed this needs to stop.

Also, don't apologize for saying what you're thinking. Just say it. We're not judging you (until we think you're scum. Then we're very much judging you ).

This is his last post and it is of similar ilk to previous ones. Again he fails to point out why I am mafia for what I am doing and again he offers a player advice, this time to clever in his last line. Again suggesting knowledge beyond that of a townie.

unvote vote pancake

[Iron Butterfly]

You put in a lot of time with your post and observations.

This is how I view day one with 18 people. I have yet to play a game where mafia is lynched day one. The closest is a Town poisoner and that was by luck. In my opinion day one is smoke and mirrors or chasing shadows. On day one it seems to be who we can get to claim and you appear to be first.

As far as me defending you, well it wasn't so much me defending you as it was that Negarious scummy logic in asking you to defend
yourself. His opinion was formed, your defense wouldn't change his mind BUT he was doing so to appear more active. So he didn't really care what you had to say.

When I asked him a second time to answer my questions...he still avoided the question. I asked why he would need to create busy work for you if his opinion was already formed and your defense wouldn't sway him. THAT I find suspicious. I am surprided no one else picked up on it.

Tails is also on my radar. He makes a one sentence post about how folks are still talking about the Zimmah case. THAT is even more scummy.

[pancakemix]

It is almost like he is telling zimmah off for playing badly. I am always suspicios of this type of post because it suggests knowledge of zimmahs alignment.

I was trying to mediate and get things to a level where he'd listen to reason as far as why his case didn't make sense. Then I gave up, as it wasn't worth the trouble.

Despite this he continues to offer up small arguments in favour of the zimmah case.. just trying to blend in IMO.

Read it again. I'm repeating myself here by telling him his case holds no water. I've been against the zimmah lynch from the start. Show me where I voted him.

Note that pancake was one of the first to vote me, and nowhere in the entire post does he once suggest that I am mafia. His vote is purely because he is sick of what I am doing. (suck on that freezie ) This is not entirely scummy since he was one of the first to vote, but what is scummy is the timing of his disappearance. He has let the BW build without ever commenting on whether he thinks I am mafia or not. It seems he is deliberately lurking in the hope that you guys push me to claim and he gets off scot free.

So your case on me is that I didn't suggest that you were scum? How am I supposed to defend myself against that? It's Day 1, for christ's sake. How could I hope to "suggest that you're mafia" if there's zero evidence to actually lead to that conclusion? Now, I could say you acted scummy (which you did, and I did say as much), but such suggesting would mean I have concrete evidence. I do not, but your actions have spoken to this direction.

If I had tacked "Seems scummy to me" onto the end of my post, would that have qualified as suggesting you were mafia? I should start adding that to the end of all my posts to avoid such an unfortunate misunderstanding again.

As for activity, I only speak if there's something worth saying. That's how I roll. I didn't post in here at all yesterday.

This is his last post and it is of similar ilk to previous ones. Again he fails to point out why I am mafia for what I am doing and again he offers a player advice, this time to clever in his last line. Again suggesting knowledge beyond that of a townie.

Wait, I can't make jokes now? Then f*ck this shit. I'm outta here.

See what I did there?

Seriously, though, how the hell does that suggest I know more than I'm letting on? And why the f*ck would I DROP HINTS THAT I AM MAFIA? And I'm sorry I'm giving helpful advice to a newer player. The same advice somebody else also gave them.

On top of that, not making direct accusations of someone being mafia is more of a scumtell than the perpetuation of a case nobody thinks is going anywhere. All this time, I never would have guessed. Also that when one has to go to lengths to explain ones seemingly irrational motives that this gives them the right to OMGUS vote the people who see said actions as irrational. This game has been educational. I LOVE LEARNING!

Oh, I'm sorry. That's a joke. I forgot I'm not allowed to do that.

Seems scummy to me.

Aw, shit. This'll take some getting used to.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Firstly I am going to attempt to explain my own motives in this game and then I am going to run you through my opinions of the day.

My initial reaction to the zimmah case was that it didn't make sense but it was also important to keep up suspicions on other players. This is reflected in the summary line of my first post in response to freezie:

I think that there is some serious ill logic by zimmah but that doesn't absolve you of using ill logic in your rather aggressive style of defense.

I continued along this line of reasoning, you will see me asking zimmah questions so that he may defend himself but I never in these early days actually cast suspicion on him. In fact the people who were getting my suspicions were:

There are plenty of people who look rather suspicious in the way they have slowly egged this case on without having the guts to throw a vote in and the chances are you wont get lynched over something so small unless a deadline comes around.

However none of this excuses you, can you please explain your train of thought because I still do not follow. If you think it wasn't a joke does that mean you believe freezie genuinely claimed miller?

On the next page I vote for one of these people:

Ahh a classic "I don't think he's scum but his action was scummy. I'll watch the bandwagon but only vote if nothing else comes up" post

vote shield

For the attempted town tell that just sounded like he was scared to commit to either opinion.

I then started to stick up for zimmah and I even had to explain why I was sticking up for him:

Shield may be an easy lynch but zimmah is the easiest lynch. It is easy to agree with everyone, it is easy to pick out the flaws in his logic, it is easy to lynch the first guy who says something which doesn't quite add up, it is easy to blend in with the crowd.. it is difficult to change the focus and if you were his partner not only is it difficult but it is also risky.

However from that point on I started to get frustrated that he wasn't answering questions and then someone actually made a good point against him (that is separate from the initial case):

As for my thoughts on zimmah; I think he's been so bull-headed with his absurd notion because he didn't want to get called out for not sticking to his guns.

Best point made against him so far. Even now he has not taken back his vote on freezie.

From then on I have pretty much had to defend myself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK here are my reads on all the players. This early in the game I am probably not going to be too accurate especially given the number of low count posters. I also have too many town reads

Town Reads
Strike Wolf- Seems to be rational and paying close attention to the game. It should be noted that he is playing the "against the grain" strategy by sticking up for freezie, zimmah and me while still questioning them. Obviously it is my opinion this is a town move.

Edoc- He seemed to be one of the few people who believed zimmah to be a genuine case. He has cast suspicion on a variety of people since and as such seems to be playing as town.

Kratos- Although he made a case against me he was the most sensible in doing so. He even mentioned it in advance of doing so and then continued to look for alternative scum when the votes heated up on me.

Leaning Town
Haggis- Although he has posted little what he has posted has all made sense. He put forward a reasonable case against jonty and although he was on the zimmah wagon at least he gave him something to answer to.

Shield- Shield is being his usual self. He actually has a few scum reads but it wouldn't be right if he didn't. Overall I rate him as leaning town because he actually made a case on tails and I liked his use of meta on nag and edoc. Warning- he has been BWing though.

Jonty- Despite good points raised against him he doesn't strike me as maf. Mainly because he has kept a high post rate and dropped lots of opinions and questions, this strategy would be risky as mafia.

Iron Butterfly- I'm surprised that he has came out in my defence considering he was one of the "this game is boring" people. This initially made me think he was town because he is looking beyond his annoyance to see who is actually maf. I am unsure however if he used the boring thing purely as an excuse for not posting though.

Null reads
Eldario- Has generally seemed OK but too few posts for me to form an opinion.

Clever- He seems to be jumping about opinions. First he thought the zimmah case was not worth considering, then he pushed the zimmah case and then he pushed on me for pushing the zimmah case! Not sure what to make of this.

Zimmah- After all that time I still don't know what to think on him. I think the best point in his defence was that "mafia wouldn't be that obvious". However he has largely been unhelpful all day despite being the centre of attention.

Sully- If he was any one else he would be in mafia section but I just don't know what to make of sully ever as he maf tells so hard I kinda want to policy lynch him but that wouldn't reveal enough information, there are better kills out there.

Fircoal- Seemed ok at the start of the day but has become far too inactive to give a read.

Leaning Mafia
freezie- Quick turn around from sticking up for me to suspected me- I don't understand why. Also attempted to push third party claim onto zimmah, this is often done by mafia when they see suspicious behaviour. This was reduced by the fact it was "lyncher" that he chose but he is still not completely off the hook IMO.

Tails- Mostly one liners trying to not give anything away. Reared his head only to dismiss the case made by sg7 and then dropped under the radar again.

Nag- This one I have mainly stated in the last few posts I have made, however I would like to add that he has been quite OMGUS and wishy washy. On zimmah he simultaneously claimed there was nothing to be gained from the discussion and also that he thought he could be scum with freezie. Then he admitted he didn't suspect me right up until when I suspected him, OMGUS. (also omgusd ironB in the same post).

Milkshake/Rodion- I was tempted to put this in null reads cause of the lack of posts but I really disliked milkshakes one post. I will go into detail on request.

Pancake- He is my number one target for a lynch today.

Firstly at the start of the day he contributed little, mostly one liners and all of them were just blending in with the town:

was zimmah here for DoomYoshi's first pokemon mafia? I don't remember. If he wasn't then he might not have gotten the joke and would have thought freezie was serious.

Does it matter? I wasn't in that game and I got it that it was one...

Seconded. Freezie brought it up in signups and Zimmah even quoted it. Not sure where the disconnect is.

The next quote is a little more revealing:

Zimmah, I think the actual problem with your case on freezie is that it relies on him having incentive as mafia (a point on which there is no evidence to suggest) to appeal back to that claim should he be investigated. The thing is, he won't. Because it was a joke. And you know this. Yet you insist on pushing this and all you have done is called the ire of the town upon yourself.

I will grant you, however, that it does appear that jonty skimmed.

It is almost like he is telling zimmah off for playing badly. I am always suspicios of this type of post because it suggests knowledge of zimmahs alignment.

This is exactly what I said freezie WOULDN'T do because he COULDN'T do it. If he tried, he'd be laughed at all the way to the gallows.

Despite this he continues to offer up small arguments in favour of the zimmah case.. just trying to blend in IMO.

Vote PMC

Quit beating a dead fucking horse.

I've been silent for however long this has been going because the discussion was fucking boring. I don't want to watch an unstoppable force beat on an immovable object. It's lame, and if 10 pages of discussion aren't an indication, it's not going to get resolved. Everyone else has said "let's drop this", and few even saw it as a scumtell. Why are you choosing to bring up again that which no one wants to discuss.

Note that pancake was one of the first to vote me, and nowhere in the entire post does he once suggest that I am mafia. His vote is purely because he is sick of what I am doing. (suck on that freezie ) This is not entirely scummy since he was one of the first to vote, but what is scummy is the timing of his disappearance. He has let the BW build without ever commenting on whether he thinks I am mafia or not. It seems he is deliberately lurking in the hope that you guys push me to claim and he gets off scot free.

Vote PMC

Quit beating a dead fucking horse.

I've been silent for however long this has been going because the discussion was fucking boring. I don't want to watch an unstoppable force beat on an immovable object. It's lame, and if 10 pages of discussion aren't an indication, it's not going to get resolved. Everyone else has said "let's drop this", and few even saw it as a scumtell. Why are you choosing to bring up again that which no one wants to discuss.

well you being silent does absolutely nothing for us..instead of being silent why dont you say something to get the game moving ...that really makes me mad ..."oh im not gonna talk because you guys are just going back and forth" well why dont you say something that gets us off the subject cause if anyone had that mentality where would we be? *steps off soap box* sorry just had a mini rant

I just now said something to get this to move on. Before that, it relies on something to actually draw from. I suppose I could have pulled that out at any time, but at this point PMC just seems to be dragging the case for no real reason after everyone has agreed this needs to stop.

Also, don't apologize for saying what you're thinking. Just say it. We're not judging you (until we think you're scum. Then we're very much judging you ).

This is his last post and it is of similar ilk to previous ones. Again he fails to point out why I am mafia for what I am doing and again he offers a player advice, this time to clever in his last line. Again suggesting knowledge beyond that of a townie.

unvote vote pancake

lol i cant really say anything cause i definitaly did that i would just like to point out i have the right to my own opinion and it can change but day one is taking way to long lol.

[DoomYoshi]

ghostly447 has replaced Fircoal.

[shieldgenerator7]

pmc, if you have zimmah in your "null" category and pcm in your "mafia" category, why did you vote for zimmah in the first place?

FASTPOSTED

VOTE GHOSTLY WELCOME TO the Game, ghostly!

UNVOTE VOTE PMC I still retain my vote for now

-SG7 ( )

[pmchugh]

Oh God what have I got myself in for, only 3 responses and all of them directly related to what I said about them... even people I didn't say were scum. Please can people respond to the main points or at least what you found interesting about my observations, e.g. whether you think I am mafia and why and what you think of pancakes play. I don't have the energy to have 17 simultaneous conversations at the moment.

I was trying to mediate and get things to a level where he'd listen to reason as far as why his case didn't make sense. Then I gave up, as it wasn't worth the trouble.

Read it again. I'm repeating myself here by telling him his case holds no water. I've been against the zimmah lynch from the start. Show me where I voted him.

Exactly why it is more suspicious, you pointed out flaws in his argument but said sweet FA else. If you were against his lynch why didn't you say so? Why didn't you offer an alternative? Why didn't you do anything except increase pressure on Z?

So your case on me is that I didn't suggest that you were scum? How am I supposed to defend myself against that? It's Day 1, for christ's sake. How could I hope to "suggest that you're mafia" if there's zero evidence to actually lead to that conclusion? Now, I could say you acted scummy (which you did, and I did say as much), but such suggesting would mean I have concrete evidence. I do not, but your actions have spoken to this direction.

If I had tacked "Seems scummy to me" onto the end of my post, would that have qualified as suggesting you were mafia? I should start adding that to the end of all my posts to avoid such an unfortunate misunderstanding again.

No you didn't. If you had written, "Seems scummy to me BECAUSE of xyz" then that would have at least told why you were voting for me. Your post, the way it is now, reads that you are doing a "protest" vote cause I wouldn't shut up. Please elaborate what advantage mafia would gain from posting in such a way.

As for activity, I only speak if there's something worth saying. That's how I roll. I didn't post in here at all yesterday.

That is called submarining.

Wait, I can't make jokes now? Then f*ck this shit. I'm outta here.

Em I never criticised the joke part of your post.

Seriously, though, how the hell does that suggest I know more than I'm letting on? And why the f*ck would I DROP HINTS THAT I AM MAFIA? And I'm sorry I'm giving helpful advice to a newer player. The same advice somebody else also gave them.

Because if you were town you would be analyzing to see, is this a maf tell or a dumb tell? As a mafia player you already know it can't be a maf tell so yo u will treat it as a dumb tell right out the blocks. That is how I read your posts of this manner.

On top of that, not making direct accusations of someone being mafia is more of a scumtell than the perpetuation of a case nobody thinks is going anywhere. All this time, I never would have guessed. Also that when one has to go to lengths to explain ones seemingly irrational motives that this gives them the right to OMGUS vote the people who see said actions as irrational. This game has been educational. I LOVE LEARNING!

Wow sarcasm is such a great defense and fantastic way to put your point across!

You see what I did there?

FASTPOSTED by shield.

Well for one thing I only just came up with them categories now on a reread and also you don't (or shouldn't) always vote for who your number one suspect is. Voting on day 1 is usually to gauge a persons reaction more than anything. In order to place a vote you must have a reason or create a case, but most of the time the people in my mafia category are hard to explain, see freezie for example.

[strike wolf]

Firstly I am going to attempt to explain my own motives in this game and then I am going to run you through my opinions of the day.

My initial reaction to the zimmah case was that it didn't make sense but it was also important to keep up suspicions on other players. This is reflected in the summary line of my first post in response to freezie:

I think that there is some serious ill logic by zimmah but that doesn't absolve you of using ill logic in your rather aggressive style of defense.

I continued along this line of reasoning, you will see me asking zimmah questions so that he may defend himself but I never in these early days actually cast suspicion on him. In fact the people who were getting my suspicions were:

There are plenty of people who look rather suspicious in the way they have slowly egged this case on without having the guts to throw a vote in and the chances are you wont get lynched over something so small unless a deadline comes around.

However none of this excuses you, can you please explain your train of thought because I still do not follow. If you think it wasn't a joke does that mean you believe freezie genuinely claimed miller?

On the next page I vote for one of these people:

Ahh a classic "I don't think he's scum but his action was scummy. I'll watch the bandwagon but only vote if nothing else comes up" post

vote shield

For the attempted town tell that just sounded like he was scared to commit to either opinion.

I then started to stick up for zimmah and I even had to explain why I was sticking up for him:

Shield may be an easy lynch but zimmah is the easiest lynch. It is easy to agree with everyone, it is easy to pick out the flaws in his logic, it is easy to lynch the first guy who says something which doesn't quite add up, it is easy to blend in with the crowd.. it is difficult to change the focus and if you were his partner not only is it difficult but it is also risky.

However from that point on I started to get frustrated that he wasn't answering questions and then someone actually made a good point against him (that is separate from the initial case):

As for my thoughts on zimmah; I think he's been so bull-headed with his absurd notion because he didn't want to get called out for not sticking to his guns.

Best point made against him so far. Even now he has not taken back his vote on freezie.

From then on I have pretty much had to defend myself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK here are my reads on all the players. This early in the game I am probably not going to be too accurate especially given the number of low count posters. I also have too many town reads

Town Reads
Strike Wolf- Seems to be rational and paying close attention to the game. It should be noted that he is playing the "against the grain" strategy by sticking up for freezie, zimmah and me while still questioning them. Obviously it is my opinion this is a town move.

Edoc- He seemed to be one of the few people who believed zimmah to be a genuine case. He has cast suspicion on a variety of people since and as such seems to be playing as town.

Kratos- Although he made a case against me he was the most sensible in doing so. He even mentioned it in advance of doing so and then continued to look for alternative scum when the votes heated up on me.

Leaning Town
Haggis- Although he has posted little what he has posted has all made sense. He put forward a reasonable case against jonty and although he was on the zimmah wagon at least he gave him something to answer to.

Shield- Shield is being his usual self. He actually has a few scum reads but it wouldn't be right if he didn't. Overall I rate him as leaning town because he actually made a case on tails and I liked his use of meta on nag and edoc. Warning- he has been BWing though.

Jonty- Despite good points raised against him he doesn't strike me as maf. Mainly because he has kept a high post rate and dropped lots of opinions and questions, this strategy would be risky as mafia.

Iron Butterfly- I'm surprised that he has came out in my defence considering he was one of the "this game is boring" people. This initially made me think he was town because he is looking beyond his annoyance to see who is actually maf. I am unsure however if he used the boring thing purely as an excuse for not posting though.

Null reads
Eldario- Has generally seemed OK but too few posts for me to form an opinion.

Clever- He seems to be jumping about opinions. First he thought the zimmah case was not worth considering, then he pushed the zimmah case and then he pushed on me for pushing the zimmah case! Not sure what to make of this.

Zimmah- After all that time I still don't know what to think on him. I think the best point in his defence was that "mafia wouldn't be that obvious". However he has largely been unhelpful all day despite being the centre of attention.

Sully- If he was any one else he would be in mafia section but I just don't know what to make of sully ever as he maf tells so hard I kinda want to policy lynch him but that wouldn't reveal enough information, there are better kills out there.

Fircoal- Seemed ok at the start of the day but has become far too inactive to give a read.

Leaning Mafia
freezie- Quick turn around from sticking up for me to suspected me- I don't understand why. Also attempted to push third party claim onto zimmah, this is often done by mafia when they see suspicious behaviour. This was reduced by the fact it was "lyncher" that he chose but he is still not completely off the hook IMO.

Tails- Mostly one liners trying to not give anything away. Reared his head only to dismiss the case made by sg7 and then dropped under the radar again.

Nag- This one I have mainly stated in the last few posts I have made, however I would like to add that he has been quite OMGUS and wishy washy. On zimmah he simultaneously claimed there was nothing to be gained from the discussion and also that he thought he could be scum with freezie. Then he admitted he didn't suspect me right up until when I suspected him, OMGUS. (also omgusd ironB in the same post).

Milkshake/Rodion- I was tempted to put this in null reads cause of the lack of posts but I really disliked milkshakes one post. I will go into detail on request.

Pancake- He is my number one target for a lynch today.

Firstly at the start of the day he contributed little, mostly one liners and all of them were just blending in with the town:

was zimmah here for DoomYoshi's first pokemon mafia? I don't remember. If he wasn't then he might not have gotten the joke and would have thought freezie was serious.

Does it matter? I wasn't in that game and I got it that it was one...

Seconded. Freezie brought it up in signups and Zimmah even quoted it. Not sure where the disconnect is.

The next quote is a little more revealing:

Zimmah, I think the actual problem with your case on freezie is that it relies on him having incentive as mafia (a point on which there is no evidence to suggest) to appeal back to that claim should he be investigated. The thing is, he won't. Because it was a joke. And you know this. Yet you insist on pushing this and all you have done is called the ire of the town upon yourself.

I will grant you, however, that it does appear that jonty skimmed.

It is almost like he is telling zimmah off for playing badly. I am always suspicios of this type of post because it suggests knowledge of zimmahs alignment.

This is exactly what I said freezie WOULDN'T do because he COULDN'T do it. If he tried, he'd be laughed at all the way to the gallows.

Despite this he continues to offer up small arguments in favour of the zimmah case.. just trying to blend in IMO.

Vote PMC

Quit beating a dead fucking horse.

I've been silent for however long this has been going because the discussion was fucking boring. I don't want to watch an unstoppable force beat on an immovable object. It's lame, and if 10 pages of discussion aren't an indication, it's not going to get resolved. Everyone else has said "let's drop this", and few even saw it as a scumtell. Why are you choosing to bring up again that which no one wants to discuss.

Note that pancake was one of the first to vote me, and nowhere in the entire post does he once suggest that I am mafia. His vote is purely because he is sick of what I am doing. (suck on that freezie ) This is not entirely scummy since he was one of the first to vote, but what is scummy is the timing of his disappearance. He has let the BW build without ever commenting on whether he thinks I am mafia or not. It seems he is deliberately lurking in the hope that you guys push me to claim and he gets off scot free.

Vote PMC

Quit beating a dead fucking horse.

I've been silent for however long this has been going because the discussion was fucking boring. I don't want to watch an unstoppable force beat on an immovable object. It's lame, and if 10 pages of discussion aren't an indication, it's not going to get resolved. Everyone else has said "let's drop this", and few even saw it as a scumtell. Why are you choosing to bring up again that which no one wants to discuss.

well you being silent does absolutely nothing for us..instead of being silent why dont you say something to get the game moving ...that really makes me mad ..."oh im not gonna talk because you guys are just going back and forth" well why dont you say something that gets us off the subject cause if anyone had that mentality where would we be? *steps off soap box* sorry just had a mini rant

I just now said something to get this to move on. Before that, it relies on something to actually draw from. I suppose I could have pulled that out at any time, but at this point PMC just seems to be dragging the case for no real reason after everyone has agreed this needs to stop.

Also, don't apologize for saying what you're thinking. Just say it. We're not judging you (until we think you're scum. Then we're very much judging you ).

This is his last post and it is of similar ilk to previous ones. Again he fails to point out why I am mafia for what I am doing and again he offers a player advice, this time to clever in his last line. Again suggesting knowledge beyond that of a townie.

unvote vote pancake

lol i cant really say anything cause i definitaly did that i would just like to point out i have the right to my own opinion and it can change but day one is taking way to long lol.

So we get an essay from PMC and this is all we get from you as a reply. My vote stays on Jonty but you're making it very tempting to vote for you.

I have more to say but I have to get to class so it will have to wait for tonight, maybe tomorrow.

[zimmah]

interesting and detailed post pmc though it surprices me that you put me in null read yet you base your case on pancake on the assumption that he is my scumbuddy.

[ghostly447]

Confirm replacement. I will read up.

[Rodion]

Worthwhile topics

1 - Freezie with the miller claim: I played in the first pokemon game, so joke understood and no harm done.

2 - Zimmah finding Freezie suspicious: Zimmah did not play in the first pokemon game, but he didn't really use that as a defense. As far as I understood, Zimmah considered that Freezie was trying to joke while also breadcrumbing a miller claim in case a cop ever got a guilty on Freezie (like that would work in a million years?!).

3 - PMC's case on Shield: can we sidetrack the discussion a little bit so you explain me what a town tell is? To further save time, can you also explain "attempted town tell"? (in the mafia scum forums I've seen players claiming others "townslipped" for showing ignorance regarding a certain aspect of the game and I dislike the idea that "playing dumb" could earn you town cred).

On the actual case, "I don't believe he is mafia but I'm up for lynching him if you guys want to" is downright bad. There are mitigating circumstances though, as he mentioned he'd see if a better case appeared and he actually made one of his own as opposed to comfortably waiting for the moment in which we'd all give up, get Zimmah lynched by default and call it a day. I don't know if he made the Tail case out of pressure for being called out on his opinion by PMC, though.

4 - Shield's case on Tail: an inactive case. Everytime I play with Tail I have this feeling that he is inactive, so not indicative of alignment. Would not hurt to see you post more, though, bro! Make an effort for us, will ya?

5 - VS rushing the Zimmah lynch when there was no deadline : viewtopic.php?p=3460201#p3460201 (VS flipped town tracker). The gist of it is VS is a giant idiot and will always do dumb and scummy things. That is not indicative of his aligment, but the policy lynch idea fits like a glove here.

6 - Haggis' case on Jonty: similar to VS, the fact is Jonty always looks like what Haggis accused him of looking. Unfortunately, not indicative of alignment.

7 - Case on PMC for discussing Zimmah's lynch after people were tired of it: that's dumb. I'd have to reread, but iirc the only legit vote on that wagon is Kratos' (ironically, he unvoted). PCM's vote on him reminds me of the same grudge-vote he cast on me in Two Sides: A D1 ("I dislike what you are doing and hence will vote you"). Freezie believes Zimmah answered PMC's question (I disagree). Zimmah voted PCM for supposedly insisting on something that was settled (I don't think it was settled). Shield also votes because of the dead horse beating thing. Clever sheeped Kratos. Jonty didn't mention who he sheeped, but it's clear that he sheeped. Eldario's vote might actually be legit as well, but I'd have to reread what PMC said about his vote on Zimmah.
tl;dr: he is being BWed because you guys were ready to move on and he (imo, correctly) wasn't.

8 - PMC's list of reads: I do not understand why you have Clever as a null read. If I read the player paragraphs you wrote and had to assign categories to them, I'd have Clever as "leaning scum". Check that again:

Clever- He seems to be jumping about opinions. First he thought the zimmah case was not worth considering, then he pushed the zimmah case and then he pushed on me for pushing the zimmah case! Not sure what to make of this.

I'll discuss my BWing suggestions (other than policy lynching VS) after I get PMC to reply to "3" and "8".

[pmchugh]

interesting and detailed post pmc though it surprices me that you put me in null read yet you base your case on pancake on the assumption that he is my scumbuddy.

Not necessarily. The beauty of the advice tell is it works in both directions, see what I said about pancake on clever.

3 - PMC's case on Shield: can we sidetrack the discussion a little bit so you explain me what a town tell is? To further save time, can you also explain "attempted town tell"? (in the mafia scum forums I've seen players claiming others "townslipped" for showing ignorance regarding a certain aspect of the game and I dislike the idea that "playing dumb" could earn you town cred).

Town tell = Doing something that a townie would do. For instance, leading a case against a mafia player.
Attempted town tell = Saying something with no purpose other than to appear townie.

8 - PMC's list of reads: I do not understand why you have Clever as a null read. If I read the player paragraphs you wrote and had to assign categories to them, I'd have Clever as "leaning scum". Check that again:

Clever- He seems to be jumping about opinions. First he thought the zimmah case was not worth considering, then he pushed the zimmah case and then he pushed on me for pushing the zimmah case! Not sure what to make of this.

Clever is defo border line, I put him in null as there is a chance he could just be confused/indecisive as a townie. Perhaps I gave him too much leeway.

[ghostly447]

interesting and detailed post pmc though it surprices me that you put me in null read yet you base your case on pancake on the assumption that he is my scumbuddy.

Not necessarily. The beauty of the advice tell is it works in both directions, see what I said about pancake on clever.

3 - PMC's case on Shield: can we sidetrack the discussion a little bit so you explain me what a town tell is? To further save time, can you also explain "attempted town tell"? (in the mafia scum forums I've seen players claiming others "townslipped" for showing ignorance regarding a certain aspect of the game and I dislike the idea that "playing dumb" could earn you town cred).

Town tell = Doing something that a townie would do. For instance, leading a case against a mafia player.
Attempted town tell = Saying something with no purpose other than to appear townie.

8 - PMC's list of reads: I do not understand why you have Clever as a null read. If I read the player paragraphs you wrote and had to assign categories to them, I'd have Clever as "leaning scum". Check that again:

Clever- He seems to be jumping about opinions. First he thought the zimmah case was not worth considering, then he pushed the zimmah case and then he pushed on me for pushing the zimmah case! Not sure what to make of this.

Clever is defo border line, I put him in null as there is a chance he could just be confused/indecisive as a townie. Perhaps I gave him too much leeway.

ok i know i have been on like every pandwagon but ill be completly honest no day ones i have ever been in have gone so far as to actually finding a scum. usually its just lets lynch who looks the most scum and go off the night actions. so sorry i guess you guys are used to it i am simply not used to it. but as far as me jumping on bandwagons. i usually have a good reason for removing my vote and placing it on another person. i would have thought bandwagoning would be something like this

oh! ill bite Vote Jonty

confirm and [color#FF0000]vote jonty125[/color] so I can watch all those who bandwagon on me

this is bandwagonning.
this is not bandwagoning

was zimmah here for DoomYoshi's first pokemon mafia? I don't remember. If he wasn't then he might not have gotten the joke and would have thought freezie was serious.

i do get the joke, i wasn't in the first one but i did read it. fact remains that joke or not, freezie did contradict himself.

Zimmah, do you have any reason not to believe freezie was joking?

thats the point though. he has said he believes he was joking , yet he still goes for this case.

i never said i believed the joke

i would assume if you get a joke you believe it?
vote zimmah was pretty suspicious of him anyway but that sends me over the edge

like i said i have good reasons for moving or adding my vote. i dont bandwagon unless its a joke. like i have said day one should never be this long and its making me tired just trying to read this cause its the same cases over and over again so when new cases present themselves im inclined to listen and push the case to get the game moving.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

interesting and detailed post pmc though it surprices me that you put me in null read yet you base your case on pancake on the assumption that he is my scumbuddy.

Not necessarily. The beauty of the advice tell is it works in both directions, see what I said about pancake on clever.

3 - PMC's case on Shield: can we sidetrack the discussion a little bit so you explain me what a town tell is? To further save time, can you also explain "attempted town tell"? (in the mafia scum forums I've seen players claiming others "townslipped" for showing ignorance regarding a certain aspect of the game and I dislike the idea that "playing dumb" could earn you town cred).

Town tell = Doing something that a townie would do. For instance, leading a case against a mafia player.
Attempted town tell = Saying something with no purpose other than to appear townie.

8 - PMC's list of reads: I do not understand why you have Clever as a null read. If I read the player paragraphs you wrote and had to assign categories to them, I'd have Clever as "leaning scum". Check that again:

Clever- He seems to be jumping about opinions. First he thought the zimmah case was not worth considering, then he pushed the zimmah case and then he pushed on me for pushing the zimmah case! Not sure what to make of this.

Clever is defo border line, I put him in null as there is a chance he could just be confused/indecisive as a townie. Perhaps I gave him too much leeway.

ok i know i have been on like every pandwagon but ill be completly honest no day ones i have ever been in have gone so far as to actually finding a scum. usually its just lets lynch who looks the most scum and go off the night actions. so sorry i guess you guys are used to it i am simply not used to it. but as far as me jumping on bandwagons. i usually have a good reason for removing my vote and placing it on another person. i would have thought bandwagoning would be something like this

oh! ill bite Vote Jonty

confirm and [color#FF0000]vote jonty125[/color] so I can watch all those who bandwagon on me

this is bandwagonning.
this is not bandwagoning

was zimmah here for DoomYoshi's first pokemon mafia? I don't remember. If he wasn't then he might not have gotten the joke and would have thought freezie was serious.

i do get the joke, i wasn't in the first one but i did read it. fact remains that joke or not, freezie did contradict himself.

Zimmah, do you have any reason not to believe freezie was joking?

thats the point though. he has said he believes he was joking , yet he still goes for this case.

i never said i believed the joke

i would assume if you get a joke you believe it?
vote zimmah was pretty suspicious of him anyway but that sends me over the edge

like i said i have good reasons for moving or adding my vote. i dont bandwagon unless its a joke. like i have said day one should never be this long and its making me tired just trying to read this cause its the same cases over and over again so when new cases present themselves im inclined to listen and push the case to get the game moving.

EBWOP
sorry about that its me Some7hingCLEVER but ghostly447 computer broke down so he was using mine and then he never signed out soooo ya sorry that post was actually by me. sorry for the confusion.

-CLEVER

[pancakemix]

Exactly why it is more suspicious, you pointed out flaws in his argument but said sweet FA else. If you were against his lynch why didn't you say so? Why didn't you offer an alternative? Why didn't you do anything except increase pressure on Z?

I was explaining to him what was wrong. I said that already. Are you paying attention?

No you didn't. If you had written, "Seems scummy to me BECAUSE of xyz" then that would have at least told why you were voting for me. Your post, the way it is now, reads that you are doing a "protest" vote cause I wouldn't shut up. Please elaborate what advantage mafia would gain from posting in such a way.

I was under the impression that voting was basically a way of saying "I find player X suspicious". Apparently I was wrong. I'm learning a lot today, aren't I? I voted you, I gave a reason. I fail te see how a connection isn't being made here. And usually, I won't unvote someone unless they give me a good reason. So far, you've failed to do so.

Please explain what the bolded sentence is supposed to mean. Because this sentence, the way it is now, reads that you are presupposing I'm mafia and are trying to get me to tell you my plan or something.

That is called submarining.

No, it's called "I have a life outside of this website". I said look at the FORUM. Look at my past games. This is how things work for me. I'm not going to be on here 24/7 just because you don't like my activity level.

Because if you were town you would be analyzing to see, is this a maf tell or a dumb tell? As a mafia player you already know it can't be a maf tell so yo u will treat it as a dumb tell right out the blocks. That is how I read your posts of this manner

So, yes giving someone advice is scummy? But apparently this is only exclusive to me, because you said your posts.

Wow sarcasm is such a great defense and fantastic way to put your point across!

Wow, you put a lot of thought into that response to legitimate points against you! Your posts all make perfect sense now!

[pmchugh]

Exactly why it is more suspicious, you pointed out flaws in his argument but said sweet FA else. If you were against his lynch why didn't you say so? Why didn't you offer an alternative? Why didn't you do anything except increase pressure on Z?

I was explaining to him what was wrong. I said that already. Are you paying attention?

You completely shifted the question. What you were saying was increasing the pressure on him, you never even hinted that you thought the case was poor and you offered no alternatives. What you claim to believe and the manner in which you posted are contradictory.

No you didn't. If you had written, "Seems scummy to me BECAUSE of xyz" then that would have at least told why you were voting for me. Your post, the way it is now, reads that you are doing a "protest" vote cause I wouldn't shut up. Please elaborate what advantage mafia would gain from posting in such a way.

I was under the impression that voting was basically a way of saying "I find player X suspicious". Apparently I was wrong. I'm learning a lot today, aren't I? I voted you, I gave a reason. I fail te see how a connection isn't being made here. And usually, I won't unvote someone unless they give me a good reason. So far, you've failed to do so.

Please explain what the bolded sentence is supposed to mean. Because this sentence, the way it is now, reads that you are presupposing I'm mafia and are trying to get me to tell you my plan or something.

You misread. I was asking what the benefits of mafia pushing a dead case were. That is what you are accusing me of doing to Zimmah (although I disagree) and I have yet to hear why this is scummy.

That is called submarining.

No, it's called "I have a life outside of this website". I said look at the FORUM. Look at my past games. This is how things work for me. I'm not going to be on here 24/7 just because you don't like my activity level.

Submarining is not the same as being inactive. Submarining is choosing to be inactive, i.e. reading the thread, knowing what is going on, having time to post and still not posting anything because you don't want to give anything away. Fircoal was inactive, you openly admitted to submarining.

Because if you were town you would be analyzing to see, is this a maf tell or a dumb tell? As a mafia player you already know it can't be a maf tell so yo u will treat it as a dumb tell right out the blocks. That is how I read your posts of this manner

So, yes giving someone advice is scummy? But apparently this is only exclusive to me, because you said your posts.

Obviously giving advice is not an automatic mafia tell. You need to consider the manner, timing and way in which you give advice just as with every other possible tell. So yes, it was targeted at you specifically.

[ghostly447]

Got halfway through page 23 guys. I have quite a few notes. I will finish reading tomorrow and post everything, but here are all the notes I have so far (bit unorganized of course guys).

SG7 - Trying to move on from the Zimmah/Freezie case by finding an inactive and trying to go from there (during open discussion) -Tails-
PMC - Said his case on SG7 was better than any others (around page 18). His only reason is that SG7 said "I think the case may be worth looking into, but I wont vote"...PMC, I do this all the time, I even did it in Power Roles. I feel it is a safety net to not only make sure you are going to get a decent case, but to also not reveal a Power Role.
Zimmah - OVer reaction in my opinion. Maybe a lyncher, maybe scum. Or maybe he actually did try to change up as to avoid getting "flamed".
Freezie - I dont like the way freezie has let others do his talking for him. Its like he is trying to fade out now.

Zimmah Page 20 votes PMC to attempt to change direction of thought

Freezie and PMC both attempt to keep subject on Zimmah while Zimmah attempts to change the direction of thought to another player. Freezie also tries to build something against Victor.

*Freezie and VS connection??? Freezie's random vote on VS for "The sake of lynching someone" still not removed for a VERY long time.

Page 21: Edoc Says he will vote the next person to bring up the case. Very strong feeling about this. Connection Edoc with Freezie or Zimmah?

Page 23: Freezie separates from PMC. Page 24?: PMC Asks is it the best case (against him) that they can get? When clearly its been established people would rather move on from Zimmah.


Like I said, still reading, but I took these as I went through.