Sweden Adopts Gender Neutral Pronoun

[Symmetry]

BBS- this seems a little bit like a strawperson argument you're setting up here, or that you're alluding to unrelated issues that you have a beef with.

You kind of got increasingly vague as your post went on though. Which group of American feminists don't want internal change?

A good test is to see what a feminist thinks about Camille Paglia.

Not sure what your point is.

The Camille Paglia test is a good start. She's also a feminist, but she doesn't accept mainstream feminist thought. Maybe you're not familiar with the field, and I don't on-hand have a neat and accurate summary of the history of feminism in the US. If you really care, I could find one later and recommend it to you.

Would you call yourself an American feminist?

Not of the kind I've been talking about.

I'm reasonably familiar, and have read some of Paglia's stuff, but she's kind of a weird example to use, and you still haven't specified which group of feminists you particularly dislike. Do you mean feminists that Paglia dislikes?

She's kind of a broadside cannon with her arguments.

If you had to identify with a group of American feminists, other than Paglia, where would you see yourself? Or would you not see yourself as as an American feminist at all?

[BigBallinStalin]

"you still haven't specified which group of feminists you particularly dislike."

Sure, I have:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169713&view=unread#p3707072

"She's kind of a broadside cannon with her arguments"

People who adhere to that discourse rooted in Marxism really dislike it. Poor holistic thinkers! Much of this I already explained here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169375&p=3701262&hilit=Marxist+discourse#p3701262

"If you had to identify with a group of American feminists, other than Paglia, where would you see yourself? Or would you not see yourself as as an American feminist at all?"

As an individual, it's best not reduce someone's identity to stereotypes and "common sense" thinking. Instead it's more practical to give someone the benefit of the doubt. As in, you don't really know who someone really is--even if you know their skin color, gender, etc. A more accurate approach is to listen to what the person says, how that person behaves, etc. But in some cases, that approach might not be the most effective only by itself, but this caveat is mostly related to national security.


As a feminist or any feminist group marginally shifts toward exaggerating the effects of an exogenous culture, downplaying the individual's agency, and overestimating the effectiveness of imposing change through the state, then I marginally shift away from that type of feminism.

[Symmetry]

"you still haven't specified which group of feminists you particularly dislike."

Sure, I have:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169713&view=unread#p3707072

"She's kind of a broadside cannon with her arguments"

People who adhere to that discourse rooted in Marxism really dislike it. Poor holistic thinkers! Much of this I already explained here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169375&p=3701262&hilit=Marxist+discourse#p3701262

"If you had to identify with a group of American feminists, other than Paglia, where would you see yourself? Or would you not see yourself as as an American feminist at all?"

As an individual, it's best not reduce someone's identity to stereotypes and "common sense" thinking. Instead it's more practical to give someone the benefit of the doubt. As in, you don't really know who someone really is--even if you know their skin color, gender, etc. A more accurate approach is to listen to what the person says, how that person behaves, etc. But in some cases, that approach might not be the most effective only by itself, but this caveat is mostly related to national security.


As a feminist or any feminist group marginally shifts toward exaggerating the effects of an exogenous culture, downplaying the individual's agency, and overestimating the effectiveness of imposing change through the state, then I marginally shift away from that type of feminism.

Nah, you simply said that you don't like certain feminists who argue in a certain way, without specifying any group or even individual feminist who argues in that way. Bit of a cop out, condemning feminism for an argument that, at best, you feel "some feminists"(unspecified) make.

Now even if you do genuinely believe that some feminists (unspecified) make the argument you object to, why the resistance to identifying yourself with American feminism? You don't object to feminism in total do you?

[thegreekdog]

I read through two pages of this thread and no one brought up that the word is "hen."

Hen.

A female chicken.

A female chicken.

A female chicken.

I'm so disappointed in youse.*

*youse - gender neutral pronoun; I could have also used "y'all" or "all y'all" or "yins."

[BigBallinStalin]

I read through two pages of this thread and no one brought up that the word is "hen."

Hen.

A female chicken.

A female chicken.

A female chicken.

I'm so disappointed in youse.*

*youse - gender neutral pronoun; I could have also used "y'all" or "all y'all" or "yins."

The invisible hand of patriarchy is at it again!!!

[thegreekdog]

I think you mean henriarchy.

I'm debating whether to use "hen" as a substitute for all gender-specific words for a while. I'm leaning towards yes. What do you hens think?

[BigBallinStalin]

I think you mean henriarchy.

I'm debating whether to use "hen" as a substitute for all gender-specific words for a while. I'm leaning towards yes. What do you hens think?

Stop it with your henrarchical language! You're making me scared!!!

[BigBallinStalin]

I thought these conditions were pretty clear: "exaggerating the effects of an exogenous culture, downplaying the individual's agency, and overestimating the effectiveness of imposing change through the state."

I guess they aren't for you? I'm not sure. Most self-labeled feminists and feminist scholars, with whom I have enjoyed conversing, exemplify the above conditions.

Now even if you do genuinely believe that some feminists (unspecified) make the argument you object to, why the resistance to identifying yourself with American feminism? You don't object to feminism in total do you?

(1) Because of the conditions already stated above, and because my 2nd to last paragraph here.


(2) What exactly does "feminism in total" (a.k.a. "totes feminism") mean?

[Symmetry]

I thought these conditions were pretty clear: "exaggerating the effects of an exogenous culture, downplaying the individual's agency, and overestimating the effectiveness of imposing change through the state."

I guess they aren't for you? I'm not sure. Most self-labeled feminists and feminist scholars, with whom I have enjoyed conversing, exemplify the above conditions.

Now even if you do genuinely believe that some feminists (unspecified) make the argument you object to, why the resistance to identifying yourself with American feminism? You don't object to feminism in total do you?

(1) Because of the conditions already stated above, and because my 2nd to last paragraph here.


(2) What exactly does "feminism in total" (a.k.a. "totes feminism") mean?

Fairly simple- would you, in a general sense, identify as an American feminist?

[BigBallinStalin]

Haha, okay, the machete is growing very dull from beating around the bush. I'm sure you're aware of the various waves and branches of feminism, so the term "feminism" can vary in meaning.

By "American," I mean "in the US," which does not exclude non-US influences on American feminism. I just haven't discussed feminism with any non-American feminists.


So, why don't you define "American feminism" or if you want "feminism"?

[Symmetry]

Haha, okay, the machete is growing very dull from beating around the bush. I'm sure you're aware of the various waves and branches of feminism, so the term "feminism" can vary in meaning.

By "American," I mean "in the US," which does not exclude non-US influences on American feminism. I just haven't discussed feminism with any non-American feminists.


So, why don't you define "American feminism" or if you want "feminism"?

American feminism is your term, and I find it kind of ill defined within your posts, but the question is simple:

Would you identify as:

a) A feminist.
b) An American feminist.
c) neither.

...?

This wasn't intended as a troublesome question, and I can't define the way that you identify yourself, I can only ask the same question in different ways.

It boils down to- are you a feminist?

[BigBallinStalin]

Haha, okay, the machete is growing very dull from beating around the bush. I'm sure you're aware of the various waves and branches of feminism, so the term "feminism" can vary in meaning.

By "American," I mean "in the US," which does not exclude non-US influences on American feminism. I just haven't discussed feminism with any non-American feminists.


So, why don't you define "American feminism" or if you want "feminism"?

American feminism is your term, and I find it kind of ill defined within your posts, but the question is simple:

Would you identify as:

a) A feminist.
b) An American feminist.
c) neither.

...?

This wasn't intended as a troublesome question, and I can't define the way that you identify yourself, I can only ask the same question in different ways.

It boils down to- are you a feminist?

Haha! This is rapidly reaching diminishing returns. I've already made my position clearer in regard to whatever question you like to keep changing.

Anyway, do you want to define "feminism" in order for me to answer that? Or shall we continue riding Symmetry's Merry-Go-Round?

[Symmetry]

Haha, okay, the machete is growing very dull from beating around the bush. I'm sure you're aware of the various waves and branches of feminism, so the term "feminism" can vary in meaning.

By "American," I mean "in the US," which does not exclude non-US influences on American feminism. I just haven't discussed feminism with any non-American feminists.


So, why don't you define "American feminism" or if you want "feminism"?

American feminism is your term, and I find it kind of ill defined within your posts, but the question is simple:

Would you identify as:

a) A feminist.
b) An American feminist.
c) neither.

...?

This wasn't intended as a troublesome question, and I can't define the way that you identify yourself, I can only ask the same question in different ways.

It boils down to- are you a feminist?

Haha! This is rapidly reaching diminishing returns. I've already made my position clearer in regard to whatever question you like to keep changing.

Anyway, do you want to define "feminism" in order for me to answer that? Or shall we continue riding Symmetry's Merry-Go-Round?

Surely not a merry-go-round? A simple question-

Are you an American feminist?

With a simple follow up- are you a feminist?

I'll add a third question, if not, why not? To both.

Your position has not been made clear, as of yet.

Dude, if you don't want to answer the questions, that's fine. Say so.

[Army of GOD]

Peyton Personning

[Symmetry]

Somehow I expect I won't be getting much in the ways of yays or nays.

[BigBallinStalin]

[Symmetry]

Symmetry's rule:

"As a discussion with BigBallinStalin grows longer on these forums, the probability that he will start to post random picture files approaches 1"

[Army of GOD]

Symmetry's rule:

"As a discussion with BigBallinStalin grows longer on these forums, the probability that he will start to post random picture files approaches 1"

Are you sure you didn't mean Phatscotty?

[Symmetry]

Symmetry's rule:

"As a discussion with BigBallinStalin grows longer on these forums, the probability that he will start to post random picture files approaches 1"

Are you sure you didn't mean Phatscotty?

Scotty's moved on to videos, plus he's still kind of interesting and fun to talk to. You've been out of the game too long.

[BigBallinStalin]

Symmetry's rule:

"As a discussion with BigBallinStalin grows longer on these forums, the probability that he will start to post random picture files approaches 1"

Are you sure you didn't mean Phatscotty?

Haha, those conversations I expect to begin with much less utility--compared to the Symmetry-BBS conversations, but sometimes, I'm pleasantly surprised. Usually the initial utility of conversing with Phatscotty doesn't offset my opportunity costs (i.e. I got better things to do).

He can be a great poster; it just depends on his intentions.

[saxitoxin]

You forgot to add a giant fireball at the far right point in the graph where Symmetry declares everyone is out to get him.

[BigBallinStalin]

In a world where Symmetry asks questions but never clarifies...

and where the victims constantly explain, but Symmetry refuses to acknowledge ....

[Actual Dramatization of Symmetry]

show

One man...



Two turntables...

show

Using the thumping beats of disco, Disco Stalin draws in vast swarms of ecstatic, screaming gay men. Symmetry becomes overwhelmed, orgasms thrice, and then dies.


The party disperses, the victims are freed, Justice has been served.

The world of CC is safe... for now...

[Symmetry]

You forgot to add a giant fireball at the far right point in the graph where Symmetry declares everyone is out to get him.

Ah, a cameo by Saxi, no doubt with an explanation of how my posts don't bother you at all.

[Symmetry]

I see we've gone with the pictures for BBS, and the "why are you so defensive" line for Saxi. All for asking if BBS was a feminist.

[saxitoxin]

You forgot to add a giant fireball at the far right point in the graph where Symmetry declares everyone is out to get him.

Ah, a cameo by Saxi, no doubt with an explanation of how my posts don't bother you at all.