HP: fight for freedom. Game over. Wizards won.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Also I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who made that statement you quoted.

Yeah, I put in your name, but meant everywhere. Momentary derp.

You're leaping quite a few steps there, tails.

How does this actually clear Iron Butterfly, or indicate Pancakemix is scum?

How did you get to the conclusion that PCM was a roleblocker from this set of actions? And how does that clear IB?

Well, I am told of each person who visits my target. N3 pancake visited chap (the only person), and chap was blocked and couldn't use his track action. That's why I asked:

Just got word that I still had my tracking power... So, I must have been blocked last night. Probably by the mafia because they found out I was on to them.

Is there any way you can prove this?

-Tails

phicsed in bold

-Tails

[Iron Butterfly]

Perhaps I am speaking the obvious. With an 18 player game how many Death eaters would you expect to be left? I would say minimum of three. Thats a minimum. In trying to find Voldemort I am trying to look at player who appears Town but don't draw to much attention to themselves.

To answer your question Spiesr," who did I visit last night?" I am going to with hold that info, for now. in that it serves no other purpose then to let them know I suspect them. If someone tracked me they will know who I visited. The person I visited is still alive. I will say this about being blocked by Hippo. I have never been notified by freezie that I have been blocked. I do not know if I was blocked or I got the wrong guy.

While I believe Spiesr to be to be Town, we saw what happened when he suggested Hippo give what info he can if Dazza is a bomb.

As far as Tails and Wolf are concerned. Someone is lying..obviously. I will not offer comment as my comments could be used against either one. I have my thoughts...but for the moment I do not want to taint that debate with me taking sides...for now at least.

[spiesr]

tl;dr I'm pretty sure I got a tracker action N1 due to a mod mix up.

In that case then you need to force the mod to confirm if the correct result of your night 1 action was: "Nobody visited Hippo" or not. At this point a lot of what we do today will be based off of this, so it is imperative that he tell you with 100% certainty what your result should have been.

[mc05025]

You're leaping quite a few steps there, tails. Although I guess as far as defenses go, I think this says it all:

I believe Tails is lying. I visited Thehippo night 1. Vote Tails

Vote Tails

Even if you are right, voting him seems strange. He said he is Lily and there is no counter claim.

How can you explain that? In what way in your opinion he can be a scum? or you do not care killing innocents?
the same to you Strike

[pancakemix]

You're leaping quite a few steps there, tails. Although I guess as far as defenses go, I think this says it all:

I believe Tails is lying. I visited Thehippo night 1. Vote Tails

Vote Tails

Even if you are right, voting him seems strange. He said he is Lily and there is no counter claim.

How can you explain that? In what way in your opinion he can be a scum? or you do not care killing innocents?
the same to you Strike

Because it's about the inconsistency. Strange that you'd gravitate straight to the name. You seem more concerned with flavor than with cold, hard facts.

[chapcrap]

In mafia its hard as hell to prove something no one else knows. I was cleared as a Deatheater by Chapcrap AND I proved Dazza was scum. I have more validity to my claim then anyone has. We still have no clue who or what MC is and hes been hiding his head.

I'm still catching up since the day started, but I want it to be clear that I did not clear you.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Iron Butterfly is clear. I am Lily Potter, Wizard Watcher.

N1 I watched thehippo, nobody visited him.
N2 I watched spartacus, nobody visited him.
N3 I watched chapcrap, he was visited by pcm. At this point, I guessed pcm was a roleblocker, was leaning toward scum but didn't have proof.
N4 I watched Iron Butterfly, he was visited by both thehippo and pcm. I figured then that pcm was scum, and since hippo turned up town roleblocker that only proved my suspicion.

So yeah, IB is clear. I am suspicious of everywhere as well since he's so eager for IB's lynch.

vote pcm

-Tails

Questions:

1. Please pardon me for this momentary burst…WTF! You DIDN’T watch jonty?!!?! Come on! I thought you were a vet here!...okay, I feel better.
2. Chapcrap was visited by pcm. Chapcrap claims he was blocked. Pcm MUST be the roleblocker, right?
3. Both thehippo and PCM visited Iron Butterfly. What was Iron Butterfly’s result on N4? It almost sounds like Iron doesn’t know if he was blocked or not. And there is no way he could have gotten any result, as both thehippo and PCM blocked him. Talk about a double team.

I believe Tails is lying. I visited Thehippo night 1. Vote Tails

For the portion of nebs post that relates to my last post.

1. I know for a fact I was not role blocked n1.
2. If hippo had been busdriven. Tails would see the busdriver and would still see me as he would also have his target switched.

Questions:

1. How could this happen, when the claimed watcher said nobody visited thehippo? Strike knows he did not get blocked for a fact, so there’s no doubt in his mind.
2. Is there such a role that would have “ninja” capabilities, but not for kills? Would Voldemort be able to manipulate people’s minds without them knowing it? Yes, yes, all meta…

You're leaping quite a few steps there, tails. Although I guess as far as defenses go, I think this says it all:

I believe Tails is lying. I visited Thehippo night 1. Vote Tails

Vote Tails

Lol…I take your OMGUS to mean absolutely nothing, pcm. But it’s been noted.

Spiesr…I’m not going to quote you whole deal…but it doesn’t read very well to me. I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that whole thing, but all you did was try to discredit what everybody was saying…all the while not offering one ounce of help. I don’t like it. Please be more helpful.

Finally…thehippos actions

N1 block Iron Butterfly – Iron still got a result on Dazza…meaning Iron had to be bussed with jonty, in order for his investigation to be successful. We know now that jonty could have been bussed…so this makes sense.
N2 block Iron Butterfly – Iron got no result on Chap, so this makes sense.
N3 block Neb – lol…that’s just funny. I guess I seemed scummy to him.
N4 block Iron Butterfly – Interesting to go back to the guy that just got the mafia busdriver lynched! Besides fitting with his burst of stupidity after the lynch…but it’s probably better that he’s no longer blocking Iron, allowing him to hunt Voldemort.

What does this mean?

1. Iron is clear in my mind. His case on Dazza, his results not in contradiction with being blocked. I’m good with Iron.
2. Tails claiming Lilly…pretty good claim. His results makes some sense, and we could test this by going after pancakemix.
3. Strike Wolf…I don’t know what to make here. There’s no reason for him to claim. Either he is town and has the best interest for town by getting information out there…or he’s mafia and outted himself pretty badly. I tend to believe the former.
4. Everywhere seems really scummy here…he has a Chapcrap-like laser focus on Iron, and is refusing to see reality. It bothers me that players get so focused in on the reality in their heads, and ignore the facts in front of them.
5. Pancakemix. I think we have to go after him, in order to test Tails. His OMGUS is a dead giveaway to me…not to mention the OMGUS came immediately on top of Strike’s vote.
6. Spiesr…hmmm…


Neb


Fastposted...really pancakemix? MC is ignoring the facts? "Hello pot. I'm the kettle."
Chap...yes, you've already demonstrated how great your "guilty" accusation of Iron was. Nothing like prematurely claiming a player is guilty and then having that completely fall apart. I tend to discount your views a little bit more after that major flub.

[chapcrap]

How is no one asking strike any questions?

strike wolf:

• How do you know you weren't roleblocked?
• Why did you visit hippo?
• What is your role?
• Who else have you visited?

Also, IB, you need to let us know about your action last night. Revealing the person isn't really necessary, but we need to know if you were blocked or got information.

Tails claim made a little sense to me initially because he had someone visit me on night 3. However, after thinking about it more, it just seems a little scummy now. Especially so if strike is telling the truth. The problem with Tails claim is that no one can verify any of it. The only alive person who you saw visit someone is pcm. And you're accusing him. It just really seems like a fake claim to me right now.

Chap...yes, you've already demonstrated how great your "guilty" accusation of Iron was. Nothing like prematurely claiming a player is guilty and then having that completely fall apart. I tend to discount your views a little bit more after that major flub.

That wasn't a major flub. Ever hear of a fake claim given to mafia? Either way, I didn't clear IB. All my result said was Not a Wizard, so he could still be a Death Eater. Although, sacrificing his busdriver is a pretty crazy move, which makes it seem a lot less likely that he is mafia.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Double posting because I wanted to make sure that lynch happened...

Anyway, some things I know:

• There is a mafia busdriver
• Iron Butterfly is scum
• I would bet that Neb, hippo, and mc are pretty close to scum

You clearly posted "Iron Butterfly is scum," when he was not. In fact, you didn't even get a message that said he was scum, just one that said he was not a wizard. That is clearly a flub.

Anyway, let's not dwell on the past. I'm curious to know who you tracked last night. Did you get any good results? You should not have been blocked as both pancakemix and thehippo were on Iron. Please tell me you performed an action last night...

[spiesr]

Spiesr…I’m not going to quote you whole deal…but it doesn’t read very well to me. I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that whole thing, but all you did was try to discredit what everybody was saying…all the while not offering one ounce of help. I don’t like it. Please be more helpful.

I am not sure what exactly you want for "help." I don't know exactly what went down anymore than anybody else at this point. Is tearing down incorrect lines of reasoning and bad arguments not helpful?

How is no one asking strike any questions?

Perhaps a better question: Pancakemix, can you confirm or deny that you visited Iron Butterfly nights 3 & 4?

[strike wolf]

You're leaping quite a few steps there, tails. Although I guess as far as defenses go, I think this says it all:

I believe Tails is lying. I visited Thehippo night 1. Vote Tails

Vote Tails

Even if you are right, voting him seems strange. He said he is Lily and there is no counter claim.

How can you explain that? In what way in your opinion he can be a scum? or you do not care killing innocents?
the same to you Strike

because his night 1 actions contradict with what I know.

Tails said no one visited Thehippo night 1. I know I visited Thehippo night 1 and I know I was not role blocked so logically what Tails said does not fit with what I know to be the reality of the events.

I also can't believe simply what Tails said about the mod possibly mistaking him for a tracker. It's too easy to say after I accused his action of being inaccurate. I would need to hear Pancake confirm that he visited the people that Tails claimed he visited on those respective nights or some other solid information for me to believe the claim.

Neb makes a valid point on the Tails night 1 question. I will answer the questions directed at me pending Pancake's answers regarding if he did visit those two and tails regarding if Freezie made a mistake.

[everywhere116]

Well, with recent events, only one thing is clear: We need more information. I am willing to wait until all questions posed t strike, pancake, tails, etc. have been answered. Unvote

[Iron Butterfly]

My thoughts on Tails saying he received a Typo. First there is a difference between a Typo and receiving the wrong information.

Freezie has corrected his mistakes in the past. Safari had to claim because the color green was different then others with his PM. He could of easily been lynched because of it. Freezie intervened and set the record straight and I find this situation no different. If Tails results were messed up because Freezie made a mistake then then I would think Freezie would let us know and make an announcement.

I do not believe that Freezie would let a plyer be lynched because of an error on his part.

I am assuming this information is just coming to light to Tails? I am assuming that this information was discovered after Wolf counter claimed?

[strike wolf]

My thoughts on Tails saying he received a Typo. First there is a difference between a Typo and receiving the wrong information.

Freezie has corrected his mistakes in the past. Safari had to claim because the color green was different then others with his PM. He could of easily been lynched because of it. Freezie intervened and set the record straight and I find this situation no different. If Tails results were messed up because Freezie made a mistake then then I would think Freezie would let us know and make an announcement.

I do not believe that Freezie would let a plyer be lynched because of an error on his part.

I am assuming this information is just coming to light to Tails? I am assuming that this information was discovered after Wolf counter claimed?

Publicly no. Freezie wouldn't say. I made a mistake in Tails action. That would confirm too much. When he announced the green part in Safari's claim it didn't necessarily clear safari completely as the role could still be counted as unconfirmed. I would however expect Freezie to correct it within PMs with Tails.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

1. Please pardon me for this momentary burst…WTF! You DIDN’T watch jonty?!!?! Come on! I thought you were a vet here!...okay, I feel better.
2. Chapcrap was visited by pcm. Chapcrap claims he was blocked. Pcm MUST be the roleblocker, right?
3. Both thehippo and PCM visited Iron Butterfly. What was Iron Butterfly’s result on N4? It almost sounds like Iron doesn’t know if he was blocked or not. And there is no way he could have gotten any result, as both thehippo and PCM blocked him. Talk about a double team.

1. I dunno... I assumed he would've been protected and scum wouldn't target him. It's definitely one of the things I regret.
2. Perhaps jailer, but yes, most likely roleblocker.
3. Doesn't really matter. From my understanding of IB's role, he would only know if it worked if his target ended up dead. It's not common that a killer is told their kill is successful because they'll just see it in the scene.

Tails claim made a little sense to me initially because he had someone visit me on night 3. However, after thinking about it more, it just seems a little scummy now. Especially so if strike is telling the truth. The problem with Tails claim is that no one can verify any of it. The only alive person who you saw visit someone is pcm. And you're accusing him. It just really seems like a fake claim to me right now.

And I would fakeclaim, why? I'm ashamed that you guys are giving me so little credit, that I would haphazardly fakeclaim and bungle so. I think I can count the number of times I've fakeclaimed on one hand, and they were much more carefully crafted. Seriously, what's the cost/benefit of me trying to save IB if he were my scum mate? For whomever said it was possible that IB and I were scum (I think SW), that is incredibly short sighted. That would only serve to ensure my death as well as the imminent death of IB.

So since saving-IB-as-scummie doesn't make sense, let's consider the try-to-get-pancake-killed scenario. Again, I would do this why? Instead of making a regular case and using the typical scum manipulations and disinformation, it makes more sense that I would fakeclaim with actions? Are you serious? Does anybody actually consider how difficult it is to come up with night actions that don't contradict with others when you're fakeclaiming? And I would do this to lynch one measly townie, only to ensure my own demise the subsequent day?

Come on, guys.

-Tails

[everywhere116]

Again, I would do this why? Instead of making a regular case and using the typical scum manipulations and disinformation, it makes more sense that I would fakeclaim with actions? Are you serious? Does anybody actually consider how difficult it is to come up with night actions that don't contradict with others when you're fakeclaiming?

But it DOES contradict others. You say no one visited Hippo night 1, Strike says that he did and that he wasn't roleblocked. The only hope of both of you telling the truth is is freezie made a mistake.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Again, I would do this why? Instead of making a regular case and using the typical scum manipulations and disinformation, it makes more sense that I would fakeclaim with actions? Are you serious? Does anybody actually consider how difficult it is to come up with night actions that don't contradict with others when you're fakeclaiming?

But it DOES contradict others. You say no one visited Hippo night 1, Strike says that he did and that he wasn't roleblocked. The only hope of both of you telling the truth is is freezie made a mistake.

Wrong! If it isn't obvious to people by now, this is not your typical mafia role game. Snape was unique, iron butterfly is unique, jonty was unique...I'm guessing there could be a unique role that can do things we have not thought about. Both tails and strike came out with no pressure.they are both vets here. I'm sure neither one would be so bold a to take a town out by exposing themselves. I'd like to hear pancake respond, and possibly claim before doing anything else.

Pancake?

[alt1978]

I am reading...a little confused...and will try to decipher this weekend. Just wanted to post...but I think I may have to break out a flow chart

[Djfireside]

Well this has turned rather interesting. I have compiled a whole list of things but in going through I kept running into questions so I will pose them first then continue on but want to see what comes of these?

Here are a few of the thoughts going through my head followed by questions:
=============================================================================
Snape was third party, strange role wizard hunter in that doesnt mention the lover part which makes me think that possibly James, Lily and Snape were all third party in some sick love triangle. The way spart played it seemed a bit off when he claimed out of the blue outting himself when MC was being pushed.

Strike claim goes against Tails and tails protects IB while strike hits at him.

There are two submariners for the most part, namely Bleed_green and not as much ALT.

Tails list appears to have some holes that need to be filled in or used to pressure others.

Night 2 and 3 seem most pivital being one had no kill and another has conflicting hits.
================================================================================
So on to what I wanted to do in the first place

MC: Why did you lie about your role initally? yes you may have to repeat yourself from somewhere else but without quotes, why?

Chap: Have you used your watch yet and did it come up with anything?

Bleed: Hi, this is a game to post in will ya?

Pancake: Based on the accusation, I dont want to out anyone just yet but do you have a night action?

IB: Who did you try for last night?

Strike: You said you visited Hippo, do you have any proof or other action that may backup your claim?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

K, N1 thehippo was visited by strike and pancake. I pm'ed freezie with a screen cap of the original N1 action, and he sent me the actual results. It was apparently just an accidental omission when translating his notes into pms.

But it DOES contradict others. You say no one visited Hippo night 1, Strike says that he did and that he wasn't roleblocked. The only hope of both of you telling the truth is is freezie made a mistake.

Maybe you kinda missed my point there. That's precisely what I was saying. I wouldn't fakeclaim in such a situation, except under extreme duress, because of exactly what's happening. To fabricate night actions invites too many opportunities for a counter which would lead to my lynch.

-Tails

[pancakemix]

Perhaps a better question: Pancakemix, can you confirm or deny that you visited Iron Butterfly nights 3 & 4?

I did not.

Pancake: Based on the accusation, I dont want to out anyone just yet but do you have a night action?

I do.

@Neb: Sue me for siding with the guy who clears me. And my comments to MC were based solely on the fact that he jump straight into believing Tails because of who he claimed, not on the claim itself.

[Djfireside]

I guess there is a second question for you based on new info PCM, Did you visit hippo N1?

[pancakemix]

I guess there is a second question for you based on new info PCM, Did you visit hippo N1?

No, I generally don't act when I first replace. I usually haven't read enough to make an informed action at that point.

[strike wolf]

So either Tails is lying and IB is probably guilty...or Pancake is lying and it appears that both Tails and IB are most likely innocent.

[spiesr]

Chap: Have you used your watch yet and did it come up with anything?

Now,I don't remember Chapcrap ever actually telling us what specific powers he has. So, how did you know that he has a watcher power?