Dan Savage

[jak111]

I agree wth every word Savage says.If he was talking about any other subject than religion there would be no problem at all.Special pleading for religion makes it almost a crime to be critical of it in a way that would be normal for anything else.Although when you've had your own way mostly for the best part of 2 thousand years,in the case of Christianity,we should expect hissyfits,or spoilt brat syndrome as I call it.

+1 It's a taboo topic ever since it came out, they can dish out hate and they can't take it in. May I reference people to the Holy Wars? There's plenty of examples of hate from the christian community toward anyone who is not. But it's topics like these and the fluff raised on it that make me want to say this, STOP BEING A HYPOCRITE.

Can someone please, give a correct description of a cult and I'll show you exactly what I mean. If you're taking offense to this, then stop posting videos about a guy speaking out for sexuality rights. "Love thy neighbour" I call bs, no one follow that simple line.

It's only quite recently that Christians stopped murdering people like Savage for speaking honestly about religion.I'm sorry but I am not too worried by a few hurt feelings when weighed against nearly 2 millennia of crimes against dissenting voices.Times may have changed but scratch the surface of modern,moderate Christianity and I suspect you'll find plenty willing to repeat the crimes of earlier ages.

Well, Communism in the 20th century has killed far more people than all religious wars combined since the beginning of time.

I'm not so sure religion is the best thing for your examples....

Now that we're moving onto politics, lets talk about Monarchy. Do you support that? If you do, you sir, are a hypocrite. If you're against Communism and you support Monarchy it makes no sense. One a group of people are in charge and there's not as many people to pay off in the government for it to run unlike a lot of other governments ~Cough~. Monarchy is run by a single family, there is no chance for you to have any power unless you're in that family.

What examples do you have to support Communism killed more than religion ever since the beginning? I can point at the Holy Wars.. MILLIONS died. I can point at the KKK, because they believed White English Christians were superior they lynched other 'minorities'. To be honest, "White English Christians" are a huge minority in the world no matter how high they like to think themselves. English.. There's Billions who can't even speak it... White... Again there's billions of Africans and Asians who aren't white... Christians, yet again Billions who are not Christian. So the mix of the 3 is a minority. Or, let's look at the war going on now. Christian Americans are against Muslims from the Middle East for suspected terrorism. So because of their religion, race, and where they were born they're obviously a terrorist, right? Wrong. Did you know that Muslims in America wanted to build a Mosque on ground zero (where the twin towers fell) and there were death threats made to them by Christian Americans who decided that they didn't like Muslims being near the fall site of the towers.

You want to talk about bullying? The biggest bully are Christians. I agree, the book isn't telling them to do it, if they followed love thy neighbor this wouldn't be happening, but instead it's the people following the religion. They almost act like nazis. At least the nazis had a single target. (This is in no way supporting nazis but I stand by the fact that they didn't hate EVERYONE who wasn't them). Hell, at least they supported their own. The last time I went to a church, I came back, and ALL they can talk about is how un"Christian" the people sitting next to them were.

They are the biggest hypocrites in the WORLD. They can call muslims terrorists and call out atheists for preferring proven facts over a book that was written by men who lived about 2000 years ago. Also, that reminds me, anyone who thinks jesus was a white man and so was his mother and father, news flash guys and girls, he was born in Africa so he'd be black, not white.

So, if Christians can't take a bit of heat they should keep their beliefs where they tell others to put them. In their heads where they belong. if you're going to be public about them, be ready for someone to say something. I find it funny when Christians get all antsy because they voice out their beliefs hoping to draw more people to their religion without expecting some criticism. Is it that much of a cult that no one can question their intentions? If not then why fear people who voice their own opinions against something you seem so willing to voice out, hmm?

Fastposted x3.
scotty, you already belittled Communism. Stop being such a hypocrite.

[PLAYER57832]

You want to talk about bullying? The biggest bully are Christians. I agree, the book isn't telling them to do it, if they followed love thy neighbor this wouldn't be happening, but instead it's the people following the religion.

This is the point, though. Since many of use would argue they are not truly following the commands of the faith, then it cannot be said to truly be religion that is the problem. Instead, it is any strongly held belief, of which religion is one, communism can be one and yes, adherance to a monarchial system can be as well. It is a factor of humanity and people wanting simple, external "system" answers instead of looking at full complexity of problems that causes the real harm.

[jak111]

You want to talk about bullying? The biggest bully are Christians. I agree, the book isn't telling them to do it, if they followed love thy neighbor this wouldn't be happening, but instead it's the people following the religion.

This is the point, though. Since many of use would argue they are not truly following the commands of the faith, then it cannot be said to truly be religion that is the problem. Instead, it is any strongly held belief, of which religion is one, communism can be one and yes, adherance to a monarchial system can be as well. It is a factor of humanity and people wanting simple, external "system" answers instead of looking at full complexity of problems that causes the real harm.

Well that would be fine if given that case, but in this thread a 'christian' brought this case up when he started the thread complaining about it all. I very much accept someones beliefs or philosophies. However, I do not accept voicing them out and expecting no back fire from anyone. I voice my opinions here expecting retaliation but hopefully it does not come to that if they actually try to understand what I am saying.

I've read the bible and I read parts of the quran. Honestly people need to focus on really the only good thing I found in the bible. Love Thy Neighbor. I can say that again and again and people won't really get my point. It's why, while I'm not a Buddhist myself, I support them because their main philosophy is "Live and let live", it's simple, to the point, and no real arguments can be made on what it means. I haven't really read much of the quran, only parts like I said, but my friend who has read it said it has less violence in it than the bible. So that'd trump the "muslims are terrorists" I hear from too many people a week >.<.

Forget the religion its self, forget our views on it. Would you agree with me Player, that there are too many people who follow a religion and twist it to their own ways or they shut out any outside input on anything because they don't want anything questioned?

People who follow a religion to be sane and have some sense of moral, good for them. For me however moral is just a natural thing that comes from respect for others.

Though referring to the government thing or even where people are from. Truly, it's never the type of government its self, or the land that they were born on that makes them. However, when a majority can fall in the lines of something bad, then there needs to be a bit of change to something. People who don't like change are, excuse my wording here, morons. I don't know where time began, I don't know what made it start, and I don't know where the hell space just decides to stop in a solid wall and wonder what is beyond that. But change is a constant thing in the entire universe, it may take thousands to BILLIONS of years for change, but it's a natural process.

Which reminds me, anyone in here believe in aliens? Like not the green dudes from Mars, but a living organism on a different planet? There's soooo many planets out there that there's just no simple way that Earth can be the only thing with life on it. (Also when the day comes that it's proven, hopefully not too many religious people get ants in their pants because their not the center of the universe).

[Ray Rider]

Intolerance in the name of tolerance!

This is in our high schools? wtf?



Hundreds of high school students walked out. Good for them.

I agree, good for those kids who had the courage to walk out on this guy using a school as his platform to attack Christianity. His argument doesn't even make sense; he has no idea about what he's talking about and then tries to propagate his uneducated, biased view of what Christians believe and what the Bible teaches when he doesn't even know the difference between the religious, civil, and moral laws of the Old Testament or the history of slavery and its abolition. I actually feel sorry for him.

[pimpdave]

The real reason to walk out of a Dan Savage speech is because he's boring and condescending. Why they showed up in the first place is beyond me.

[Phatscotty]

Intolerance in the name of tolerance!

This is in our high schools? wtf?



Hundreds of high school students walked out. Good for them.

I agree, good for those kids who had the courage to walk out on this guy using a school as his platform to attack Christianity. His argument doesn't even make sense; he has no idea about what he's talking about and then tries to propagate his uneducated, biased view of what Christians believe and what the Bible teaches when he doesn't even know the difference between the religious, civil, and moral laws of the Old Testament or the history of slavery and its abolition. I actually feel sorry for him.

I would bet a large sum of money the majority of people applauding the profanity laced tirade were high school teachers.

[Maugena]

The Bible.
We'll just talk about The Bible for a second. Uh.
People often point out that they can't help it. They can't help it-the anti-gay bullying.
'Cuz it says it right there in Leviticus. It says right there in Timothy. It says right there in Romans.
That being gay is wrong.
We can learn to ignore the bullshit in The Bible about gay people. The same way... the same way we have learned to ignore the bullshit in The Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation.
We ignore bullshit in The Bible about all sorts of things.
The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document.
Slave owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War and justified it.
The shortest book in The Testiment is a letter from Paul to a Christian slave owner about owning his Christian slave.
And Paul doesn't say Christians don't own people.
Paul talks about HOW Christians own people.
We ignore what The Bible says about slavery because the Bible got slavery wrong.
Tim Har-Sam Harrison, Letter to A Christian Nation points out that The Bible got the easiest moral question that humanity has ever faced, wrong. Slavery.
What are the odds that The Bible got something as complicated as human sexuality wrong? 100%.
The Bible says that if your daughter's not a virgin on her wedding night-if a woman isn't a virgin on her wedding night, she shall be dragged to her father's doorstep and stoned to death.
Callista Gingrich lives.
And there is no effort-there is no effort to amend State Constitutions to make it legal to stone women to death on their wedding night-if they're not virgins. At least not yet, we don't know where the GOP's going these days...
People are dying because people can't clear this one last hurdle. They can't get past this one last thing in The Bible about homosexuality.
Um.
One other thing I wanna talk about is... heh...
So you can tell the Bible guys in the hall they can come back now because I'm done beating up the Bible.
It's funny someone who's on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansied assed some people react when you push back.
I apologize if I've hurt anyone's feelings. But. I have a right to defend myself.
And to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible and insisting we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is exactly what he said, word for word. I just spent the past 10 minutes typing everything he said down because I wanted to listen to what he said and slap you dumbfucks in the face with your own bigotry.

IN CASE YOU DID NOT FUCKING NOTICE, PHATSCOTTY, SAVAGE DID NOT SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT MODERN PEOPLE OR SINGLING OUT ANYONE, IT WAS THE BIBLE ITSELF UNTIL THE VERY END.
THE PEOPLE THAT WALKED OUT WALKED OUT BEFORE HE CALLED THEM OUT.

It's fucking sick how you can twist something into something it's not, Phatscotty. I'm ashamed of you and all that have the same mindset as you.

what? WHY?

Because it's all right to bully Christians, but not gays or nerds or anyone else. Duh!

When people bully Christians it's not "bullying". It's something else. What it is you'd have to ask the atheistic bullies, I haven't the faintest clue what it is if not bullying.

This is not bullying. When you're the aggressor: Christians against gays, YOU'RE the bully. Gays would never have said anything if it wasn't for 'Christians' pushing an anti-gay agenda.

what? WHY?

Because it's all right to bully Christians, but not gays or nerds or anyone else. Duh!

When people bully Christians it's not "bullying". It's something else. What it is you'd have to ask the atheistic bullies, I haven't the faintest clue what it is if not bullying.

Just so we're clear, which parts of that video do you consider bullying? All of it?

I didn't watch the video, I read the news story. The speaker went on an anti christian tirade and called those who walked out "pansy assed" among other things. Yeah, bullies like to call people names like that.

It’s funny as someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansy-assed people react when you push back

So the anti bullying advocate's plan to combat bullying is to bully back. Genius!

LMAO. He's a tool.

And you're blatantly ignorant! Wheeeeeeeeee!

What Dan Savage does not realize, or more likely does but chooses to mislead, is that the people who used to Bible to justify slavery is only half of the story. Abolitionists also used the Bible as their justification for why slavery should be ended.

But this is a common problem with a lot of people. It's not the Bible that is to blame, is the peoples twisting of it, using it to justify their agenda. The people who twist faith are at fault, not always the faith itself. Maybe Mr. Savage will become more intelligent someday and less divisive, expand his understanding. Suppose not while he is making a living spewing his bullshit though.

Also a great example of how some people close their minds and leave rationale and reason behind them. They are the most intolerant people of all, and hide behind tolerance.

Your logic = the turd in your toilet. Please flush. ;3

Everyone that is in disagreement with Dan, you are the bane of civil/societal progress.

I'm sorry, but yeah.
When you're wrong, you're wrong.
Perhaps my name-calling is ban-worthy?
Am I a bully?

[Baron Von PWN]

See maugena's transcript.

He says people who freak out over his criticism of the bible are being "pansyassed" in the context that he's criticizing the bible as being a document that can be used to justify the beating of gays.

I mean really to walk out because he's saying its stupid and bigoted to strictly adhere to one part of leviticus relating to homosexuality but ignore the others is a little ridiculous.

[Phatscotty]

Well, Communism in the 20th century has killed far more people than all religious wars combined since the beginning of time.

I would have to see the source for your data. Or, rather, it seems your totals depend on specific definitions for religious wars.

If you instead refer to the number of people killed in the name of religion or even just specifically Christianity as opposed to those killed for communism, I believe religious repression far outstrips the deaths do to communism.

But I agree with your ultimate point. Killing for beliefs is a fundament of strong belief, not religion, per se. It just happens that religious belief is one of those things about which people historically feel strongly enough to actually allow disputes to escalate to killing or war. Even noting that economics and such always are involved as well, the "match stick" is usually some kind of belief.

Its a lot easier to garner troops to depose a bad ruler or to "free" an oppressed population than it is to promote the economic interests of some company or the heads of a nation.

Well, how many people were killed in the Crusades? 30,000? 50,000? 70,000?

The crusaders cannot carry Stalin's waterbucket. Mao is laughing at them trying to.

[BigBallinStalin]

Well, Communism in the 20th century has killed far more people than all religious wars combined since the beginning of time.

I would have to see the source for your data. Or, rather, it seems your totals depend on specific definitions for religious wars.

If you instead refer to the number of people killed in the name of religion or even just specifically Christianity as opposed to those killed for communism, I believe religious repression far outstrips the deaths do to communism.

But I agree with your ultimate point. Killing for beliefs is a fundament of strong belief, not religion, per se. It just happens that religious belief is one of those things about which people historically feel strongly enough to actually allow disputes to escalate to killing or war. Even noting that economics and such always are involved as well, the "match stick" is usually some kind of belief.

Its a lot easier to garner troops to depose a bad ruler or to "free" an oppressed population than it is to promote the economic interests of some company or the heads of a nation.

Well, how many people were killed in the Crusades? 30,000? 50,000? 70,000?

The crusaders cannot carry Stalin's waterbucket. Mao is laughing at them trying to.

So, as long as I create an organization which kills less people than the organizations led by Stalin, Mao, and/or Hitler, then it's legitimate?

[nagerous]

Those homophobes who walked out were all caught on camera, shamed for the entire world to see.

[Phatscotty]

Those homophobes who walked out were all caught on camera, shamed for the entire world to see.

wow. Just wow

[Phatscotty]

Well, Communism in the 20th century has killed far more people than all religious wars combined since the beginning of time.

I would have to see the source for your data. Or, rather, it seems your totals depend on specific definitions for religious wars.

If you instead refer to the number of people killed in the name of religion or even just specifically Christianity as opposed to those killed for communism, I believe religious repression far outstrips the deaths do to communism.

But I agree with your ultimate point. Killing for beliefs is a fundament of strong belief, not religion, per se. It just happens that religious belief is one of those things about which people historically feel strongly enough to actually allow disputes to escalate to killing or war. Even noting that economics and such always are involved as well, the "match stick" is usually some kind of belief.

Its a lot easier to garner troops to depose a bad ruler or to "free" an oppressed population than it is to promote the economic interests of some company or the heads of a nation.

Well, how many people were killed in the Crusades? 30,000? 50,000? 70,000?

The crusaders cannot carry Stalin's waterbucket. Mao is laughing at them trying to.

So, as long as I create an organization which kills less people than the organizations led by Stalin, Mao, and/or Hitler, then it's legitimate?

No

[BigBallinStalin]

Well, Communism in the 20th century has killed far more people than all religious wars combined since the beginning of time.

I would have to see the source for your data. Or, rather, it seems your totals depend on specific definitions for religious wars.

If you instead refer to the number of people killed in the name of religion or even just specifically Christianity as opposed to those killed for communism, I believe religious repression far outstrips the deaths do to communism.

But I agree with your ultimate point. Killing for beliefs is a fundament of strong belief, not religion, per se. It just happens that religious belief is one of those things about which people historically feel strongly enough to actually allow disputes to escalate to killing or war. Even noting that economics and such always are involved as well, the "match stick" is usually some kind of belief.

Its a lot easier to garner troops to depose a bad ruler or to "free" an oppressed population than it is to promote the economic interests of some company or the heads of a nation.

Well, how many people were killed in the Crusades? 30,000? 50,000? 70,000?

The crusaders cannot carry Stalin's waterbucket. Mao is laughing at them trying to.

So, as long as I create an organization which kills less people than the organizations led by Stalin, Mao, and/or Hitler, then it's legitimate?

No

Then why even mention that Stalin killed more people than the Church, the kings, and their soldiers during the Crusades?

[jak111]

Phatscotty, just admit you brought up a subject with very little research into a video you posted on here, expecting support. All those kids who walked out are either 1.) Bored of speeches (I know I sometimes walk out on speeches at school because they drag them on too long). Or 2.) Homophobic. Which is what the guy in the video is fighting against. So yea, do some research bud.

[Phatscotty]

Phatscotty, just admit you brought up a subject with very little research into a video you posted on here, expecting support. All those kids who walked out are either 1.) Bored of speeches (I know I sometimes walk out on speeches at school because they drag them on too long). Or 2.) Homophobic. Which is what the guy in the video is fighting against. So yea, do some research bud.

The kids walking out is not the point of the video. I only commented on them. It's about the Bully, and severely inappropriate language and topic matter in a high school.

thank you for your comments

[nagerous]

What the speaker is saying is that people who use the Bible as an excuse for their vile homophobia should not be given a free pass. I don't see how that makes him a bully.

[Phatscotty]

What the speaker is saying is that people who use the Bible as an excuse for their vile homophobia should not be given a free pass. I don't see how that makes him a bully.

Yeah, I heard that when he screamed "THE BIBLE IS BULLSHIT!" What "vile homophobia" do you speak of??? Who is getting a free pass to spew hatred? oh yeah, Dan Savage....

Where are all the people who are so passionate about separation of church and state?

Is this the homophobe you sepak of?

One student in the audience, Rick Tuttle, remarked, “I thought this would be about anti-bullying…It turned into a pointed attack on Christian beliefs.”

Dang, what a Homophobe!

[patches70]

Yeah, the poor guy Savage. When he was a kid I bet bullies laughed at him and mocked him. Probably called him a pansy, idiot, brain dead and other such language. Probably cursed at him.

Now he's all grown up and does major anti bullying campaigns by calling Christians pansies, mocking them and other such language that he no doubt picked up from bullies.

My, how funny it is that people become what it is that they hate.......

[nagerous]

Read Maugena's post, nowhere in the speech did he say 'The Bible is Bullshit.' He actually said 'we ignore the bullshit in the Bible about homophobia' which is a fair statement because those passages are bullshit. He made sound reasonable points like the fact that there are many other passages in the Bible, which are now ignored as they are considered outmoded and outdated for the majority of modern day Christians, yet some people still use passages from the Bible which are critical of homosexuals to justify disgusting views.

Watch the video again.

[patches70]

Sure, it sucks when people pick on people because of their sexuality, race, nationality and beliefs. Bullies like to do such things.
Seems Savage has a lot of anger in his heart and he doesn't differentiate individuals, only grouping all Christians together and deriding their beliefs.

Dan Savage is a bigot. Not just against Christians mind you, you doesn't like Transexuals either and has often been criticized for that as well. He's also been called out in the past for racist statements as well. But no matter, ignore the hatred he spews because he spews it at those you all hate as well.

All bigots filled with vile hatred and lack of tolerance. You are funny people to be so blind. He's no better than the people he rails against.

[Phatscotty]

Read Maugena's post, nowhere in the speech did he say 'The Bible is Bullshit.' He actually said 'we ignore the bullshit in the Bible about homophobia' which is a fair statement because those passages are bullshit. He made sound reasonable points like the fact that there are many other passages in the Bible, which are now ignored as they are considered outmoded and outdated for the majority of modern day Christians, yet some people still use passages from the Bible which are critical of homosexuals to justify disgusting views.

Watch the video again.

......and then provided 9 more examples after homophobia of why the Bible is bullshit, but of course that was not meant to imply the Bible is full of shit. Your description does not exactly square with his comment about how "The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document..." either. He was bullying Christians, LOUD and clear.

As for how I see it, a homosexual as yelling at the top of his lungs to a bunch of children about how the Bible is wrong about what is says about homosexuality. His examples do not even come close to backing up that point, but that's just more context.

One thing Savage does know, is that he is trying to promote his beliefs onto vulnerable children in a high school.

[Maugena]

Those homophobes who walked out were all caught on camera, shamed for the entire world to see.

Indeed, haha.

One student in the audience, Rick Tuttle, remarked, “I thought this would be about anti-bullying…It turned into a pointed attack on Christian beliefs.”

#1. It's an attack on one Christian belief.* (The why will be discussed below.)
#2. This is only a single part of the entire lecture/speech. (At least it seems.)

Yeah, the poor guy Savage. When he was a kid I bet bullies laughed at him and mocked him. Probably called him a pansy, idiot, brain dead and other such language. Probably cursed at him.

Now he's all grown up and does major anti bullying campaigns by calling Christians pansies, mocking them and other such language that he no doubt picked up from bullies.

My, how funny it is that people become what it is that they hate.......

Man, this might be grounds for me to finally FOE someone...
If clear-cut words can't help you figure out what's going on, your opinion is completely inconsequential.

Phatscotty: Why are you ignoring the obvious?

*BECAUSE IT PROMOTES HATRED AGAINST THOSE THAT ARE HOMOSEXUAL. DONE.

[patches70]

Oh snap! You is a gonna foe me? My oh my, be still my heart. Go for it big guy.

Doesn't matter, you'll never see the anger and hate in the guy. It's no different from the anger and hate he claims to fight. People get themselves consumed with that rage and become objects of hate and intolerance themselves. You just let yourself get whipped up into a frenzy yourself without even thinking.

It's a common trait among bigots. Congratulations. You are a hater as well. May you have a long and happy hate.

[Symmetry]

Oh snap! You is a gonna foe me? My oh my, be still my heart. Go for it big guy.

Doesn't matter, you'll never see the anger and hate in the guy. It's no different from the anger and hate he claims to fight. People get themselves consumed with that rage and become objects of hate and intolerance themselves. You just let yourself get whipped up into a frenzy yourself without even thinking.

It's a common trait among bigots. Congratulations. You are a hater as well. May you have a long and happy hate.

Oh dear, bit of a train wreck of a post going on here. Anger and hate are not intrinsically bad things Patches, although you equate them with bigotry. Anger at the historic treatment of homosexuals, or hatred of bigotry, are not the same as anger toward gay rights campaigners, or hatred of homosexuality.

That's just lazy moral equivalence. You can usually do a bit better than that.