ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[Symmetry]

Ya know, I knew if I gave you a link, you would ignore it. You asked me for it!

Don't ever ask me for a link again

What did i do to get that response?

You ducked my challenge immediately after I completed your challenge

wtf dude.

Dude, specify, talk to me, be upfront, don't be so cryptic.

[Phatscotty]

Fine. here. It's 7 minutes (not 30 ), but you can get the gist in the first 180 seconds.
C'mon Symm! check out my source! The guy is quoting Neitzche for Pete's sake!

[Symmetry]

Dude, i've got the gist already. You don't have an argument that you can explain. You want me to watch a load of videos that you won't even do me the courtesy of explaining the basics of what they're about, and you won't explain the comtext.

Do you have any kind of argument or opinion of your own at this point Scotty?

Something that could not be better explained via a youtube link? Something that you could honestly say was yours rather than somone or something you agreed on?

[Phatscotty]

Dude, i've got the gist already. You don't have an argument that you can explain. You want me to watch a load of videos that you won't even do me the courtesy of explaining the basics of what they're about, and you won't explain the comtext.

Do you have any kind of argument or opinion of your own at this point Scotty?

Something that could not be better explained via a youtube link? Something that you could honestly say was yours rather than somone or something you agreed on?

A load? It's 1 video. Oh wait, I get it...this is what it looks like when you close your mind and choose to remain ignorant? Look at you fight against a silly video clip! Screaming and yelling the whole time like a brat.

You asked me for a link, I gave you one, you refuse it, then you ask me why I tell you to never ask me for a link again?

Go to sleep man. you are totally trashing your rep

[thegreekdog]

Ah, when you refer to it as a corporate boondoggle (a vague American term) rather than socialised healthcare (another vague American term), you expect your argument to become clearer?

Universal healthcare works everywhere else, surely that should be reason enough to give it a shot in the only major industrialised nation that doesn't have it, spends more on helthcare, and gets less from its healthcare system?

There you go! See? No ad hominems! I knew you could do it.

I'm not sure universal healthcare works everywhere else. I would be willing to try it in the United States if I thought that if it didn't work it would go away. However, as history has shown, once the government controls (or is involved in) something, the government is loathe to give it up.

I would refer you to the situation in the UK, where the Coalition government has been moving to do exactly that- give up control to the private sector. I'm not sure if I can call on "History", but I can draw your attention to current events.

It's not popular, and it goes against pretty much all medical expertise. Hence why the Conservatives promised not to do it in the previous election, and why, when they went ahead and broke that promise, they got such a massive drubbing in the most recent elections.

I don't know enough to comment on the situation in the UK. However, I suspect the Conservatives would indicate that the current UK healthcare system costs too much money (and probably that care is poor). I suspect the non-Conservatives (Labor, et. al.) would indicate that the Conservatives are trying to help out their fatcat friends.

Also - US anti-exceptionalism. When the government gets control it doesn't give it up.

[vodean]

you dont need to agree with it 100%... its still a true story.

I think you might find that it's the conclusion I disagree with. I have no opinion whatsoever on the validity of your story (unlike ViperOverlord's anecdote about Japanese healthcare- you should get him to tell you that one sometime, it's almost comically fun picking holes in how that one is obviously not true).

why do you think every example of communism EVER failed?

Failed at what? Cuba and Vietnam seem to have done pretty well compared to the regimes that the US wanted them to have. The USSR vs Tsarist Russia? Communism wins hands down. China under Communist rule? Seems to be considered the greatest threat to US dominance in the next decade.

Don't get me wrong, I have a very healthy skepticism with regards to communism. I just don't dismiss its efficacy.

Still, I'm not sure how your dad's unwillingness to visit one of Denmark's private hospitals proves that communism is a failure.

actually, since he is not a citizen, he did not have access to public hospitals after the emergency was abated. but the price controls and quota system, as well as other policies effectively mean that danish private hospitals are equivalent to american public hospitals, but with generally lazy doctors.

[natty dread]

I think a new logical fallacy needs to be invented: argumentum ad youtubum

In a nutshell, it goes "my argument is this X number of youtube videos, i won't bother to explain what i'm trying to communicate with them, or what message the videos are supposed to give, and if you require any further explanation you are trolling and that means i'm right!"

[Phatscotty]

I think a new logical fallacy needs to be invented: argumentum ad youtubum

In a nutshell, it goes "my argument is this X number of youtube videos, i won't bother to explain what i'm trying to communicate with them, or what message the videos are supposed to give, and if you require any further explanation you are trolling and that means i'm right!"

I don't know which of you two are dumber. I made the argument before I shared the link. The link backs up the argument.

Go shoot yourself

[BigBallinStalin]

The R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution turns violent.

[natty dread]

Go shoot yourself

BANG

But what does that mean.

What is phatscotty trying to say?

[Phatscotty]

I think a new logical fallacy needs to be invented: argumentum ad youtubum

In a nutshell, it goes "my argument is this X number of youtube videos, i won't bother to explain what i'm trying to communicate with them, or what message the videos are supposed to give, and if you require any further explanation you are trolling and that means i'm right!"

I don't know which of you two are dumber. I made the argument before I shared the link. The link backs up the argument.
Go shoot yourself

BANG

But what does that mean.

What is phatscotty trying to say?

You might consider at least trying to hide your pathetic nonsense

ObamaCare will be decalred anti-constitutional, and anti-American.

[PLAYER57832]

you dont need to agree with it 100%... its still a true story.

I think you might find that it's the conclusion I disagree with. I have no opinion whatsoever on the validity of your story (unlike ViperOverlord's anecdote about Japanese healthcare- you should get him to tell you that one sometime, it's almost comically fun picking holes in how that one is obviously not true).

why do you think every example of communism EVER failed?

Failed at what? Cuba and Vietnam seem to have done pretty well compared to the regimes that the US wanted them to have. The USSR vs Tsarist Russia? Communism wins hands down. China under Communist rule? Seems to be considered the greatest threat to US dominance in the next decade.

Don't get me wrong, I have a very healthy skepticism with regards to communism. I just don't dismiss its efficacy.

Still, I'm not sure how your dad's unwillingness to visit one of Denmark's private hospitals proves that communism is a failure.

actually, since he is not a citizen, he did not have access to public hospitals after the emergency was abated. but the price controls and quota system, as well as other policies effectively mean that danish private hospitals are equivalent to american public hospitals, but with generally lazy doctors.

I recieved Excellent care in the Danish healthcare system. Though not a citizen, I was a minor (teen) at the time and so there was no issue. My uncle and cousin experienced very serious accidents. At the time, I was very biased against socialized medicine and basically assumed the care they would get would be poor. It was my father who told me differently.

To contrast, my brother here in the US (in CA) almost died for a lack...and well, our local hospital here (PA) has a bad reputation for anything serious. (Such things are always debatable, but everyone I know has a horror story here.. not where I grew up).

[PLAYER57832]

NightStrike, have you ever lived in a country with Universal Healthcare?

Nope, and I wouldn't want to. If I have a medical issue, I like being able to see a doctor promptly and not have the government choose whether or not they will cover a procedure. [/quote]
You mean you like insurance companies to decide.

And I like the freedom of making my own health care choices instead of handing those choices over to the government.

Except when it comes to women's healthcare.

And where's the massive health care problem in the US?

look around, with eyes that are not covered by right wing glasses.

[Night Strike]

Night Strike, have you ever lived in a country with Universal Healthcare?

Nope, and I wouldn't want to. If I have a medical issue, I like being able to see a doctor promptly and not have the government choose whether or not they will cover a procedure.

You mean you like insurance companies to decide.

You can change your insurance and will be able to change it much more easily if the government would get out of the way. If you don't like the service a company provides, then you stop giving your money to that company and find a different one. You can't do that with the government. What's so hard to understand about that?

And I like the freedom of making my own health care choices instead of handing those choices over to the government.

Except when it comes to women's healthcare.

No, women have the same freedom of health care choices as men. You're confusing governmental interference of religion with making decisions for women.

And where's the massive health care problem in the US?

look around, with eyes that are not covered by right wing glasses.

Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved. Let the free market find the best health care and health insurance solutions without the government dictating every single specific thing that can or cannot be covered. Perhaps YOU should take of the government-is-always-good blinders.

[Symmetry]

NS- you're making a fairly big mistake. You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good.

In truth, you'll find that that nobody holds that view, and you're passionately defending against an non-existent foe. If you truly believe that governments should have no say in anything, as they only make thinks worse, well, that's a point that people will have points to argue against.

Cos' it's kind of crazy.

[BigBallinStalin]

NS- you're making a fairly big mistake. You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good.

In truth, you'll find that that nobody holds that view, and you're passionately defending against an non-existent foe. If you truly believe that governments should have no say in anything, as they only make thinks worse, well, that's a point that people will have points to argue against.

Cos' it's kind of crazy.

That's not really the case. From what I've been reading, he's against the idea that the government is always/tends to be capable and willing of providing better solutions. That's a big difference from "gov'ment always gud."

[Symmetry]

NS- you're making a fairly big mistake. You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good.

In truth, you'll find that that nobody holds that view, and you're passionately defending against an non-existent foe. If you truly believe that governments should have no say in anything, as they only make thinks worse, well, that's a point that people will have points to argue against.

Cos' it's kind of crazy.

That's not really the case. From what I've been reading, he's against the idea that the government is always/tends to be capable and willing of providing better solutions. That's a big difference from "gov'ment always gud."

Perhaps YOU should take of the government-is-always-good blinders.

Just going by what he said.

[BigBallinStalin]

Haha, but he is talking to PLAYER after all. Not "those who oppose your argument that government is always bad..."

Code: Select all

"You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good."

[Symmetry]

Haha, but he is talking to PLAYER after all. Not "those who oppose your argument that government is always bad..."

Code: Select all

"You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good."

So he criticizes opponents for saying "government always does good", gets called out on it, and your argument is that it's ok if he only argued it to Player?

[vodean]

NS- you're making a fairly big mistake. You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good.

In truth, you'll find that that nobody holds that view, and you're passionately defending against an non-existent foe. If you truly believe that governments should have no say in anything, as they only make thinks worse, well, that's a point that people will have points to argue against.

Cos' it's kind of crazy.

he holds that view... I hold that view, and im sure that if we put this to a poll on the general forum, with an interesting title so a lot of people look at it... many (perhaps a majority, at this point) will hold this view. people dont trust governments anymore.

[Symmetry]

NS- you're making a fairly big mistake. You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good.

In truth, you'll find that that nobody holds that view, and you're passionately defending against an non-existent foe. If you truly believe that governments should have no say in anything, as they only make thinks worse, well, that's a point that people will have points to argue against.

Cos' it's kind of crazy.

he holds that view... I hold that view, and im sure that if we put this to a poll on the general forum, with an interesting title so a lot of people look at it... many (perhaps a majority, at this point) will hold this view. people dont trust governments anymore.

Sorry, dude, I've argued with NS for a long time, and we've disagreed on pretty much everything. I doubt he'd consider you a spokesperson. Argue your own point, and NS will call me out on what he disagrees with when he feels like doing so.

[vodean]

NS- you're making a fairly big mistake. You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good.

In truth, you'll find that that nobody holds that view, and you're passionately defending against an non-existent foe. If you truly believe that governments should have no say in anything, as they only make thinks worse, well, that's a point that people will have points to argue against.

Cos' it's kind of crazy.

he holds that view... I hold that view, and im sure that if we put this to a poll on the general forum, with an interesting title so a lot of people look at it... many (perhaps a majority, at this point) will hold this view. people dont trust governments anymore.

Sorry, dude, I've argued with NS for a long time, and we've disagreed on pretty much everything. I doubt he'd consider you a spokesperson. Argue your own point, and NS will call me out on what he disagrees with when he feels like doing so.

im here and hes not. deal with it. doesn't make my point any less valid. and im sure NS will reply sooner or later, and then there will be two valid arguments against your ad hominem attacks. your argument is INVALID. your face is INVALID.

[Symmetry]

NS- you're making a fairly big mistake. You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good.

In truth, you'll find that that nobody holds that view, and you're passionately defending against an non-existent foe. If you truly believe that governments should have no say in anything, as they only make thinks worse, well, that's a point that people will have points to argue against.

Cos' it's kind of crazy.

he holds that view... I hold that view, and im sure that if we put this to a poll on the general forum, with an interesting title so a lot of people look at it... many (perhaps a majority, at this point) will hold this view. people dont trust governments anymore.

Sorry, dude, I've argued with NS for a long time, and we've disagreed on pretty much everything. I doubt he'd consider you a spokesperson. Argue your own point, and NS will call me out on what he disagrees with when he feels like doing so.

im here and hes not. deal with it. doesn't make my point any less valid. and im sure NS will reply sooner or later, and then there will be two valid arguments against your ad hominem attacks. your argument is INVALID. your face is INVALID.

Cute. I've argued with NightStrike, and you. sir, are no NightStrike.

[BigBallinStalin]

Haha, but he is talking to PLAYER after all. Not "those who oppose your argument that government is always bad..."

Code: Select all

"You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good."

So he criticizes opponents for saying "government always does good", gets called out on it, and your argument is that it's ok if he only argued it to Player?

Okay...

This:

Perhaps YOU should take of the government-is-always-good blinders.

doesn't equal

this: " he criticizes opponents for saying "government always does good"

_______________________________________________________


If I have not missed his post where he explicitly stated what you claim he stated, then it seems that you're just making shit up.

[Symmetry]

Haha, but he is talking to PLAYER after all. Not "those who oppose your argument that government is always bad..."

Code: Select all

"You're assuming that those who oppose your argument that government is always bad, or as you put it "Everywhere I look, I see the government making things worse the more they get involved" are arguing that government is always good."

So he criticizes opponents for saying "government always does good", gets called out on it, and your argument is that it's ok if he only argued it to Player?

Okay...

This:

Perhaps YOU should take of the government-is-always-good blinders.

doesn't equal

this: " he criticizes opponents for saying "government always does good"

_______________________________________________________


If I have not missed his post where he explicitly stated what you claim he stated, then it seems that you're just making shit up.

Use your words BBS. I know it's tough to ask you to reply without using pictures, but give it a go.