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Postby spurgistan on Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:36 pm

flashleg8 wrote:
spurgistan wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:What does global warming have to do with entropy?


Everything. What we have right now (at least, are supposed to have) is a earth system that balances out over time. Solar heat enters, some is stored in the earth systemsome is reflected back out to the solar system, and some is reflected back out. A lot of fragile climate patterns (wind, ocean current, etc.) are reliant on this balance. Well, then mr cunning human and his combustion enter the story. Greenhouse gas emissions result in more heat being trapped in the system, and many of these fragile processes break down into entropy. And, as Sergeant Barnes would say, "When the system breaks down, WE break down." (Love that quote) In effect, climate change IS entropy, in that it's the breakdown of a (more or less) organizied system.


I completely disagree with you first premise - that the earth system balances out over time. Climate systems have changed on every known planet in the solar system. Our own system has changed many times. There is no "[supposed to be] balanced system". The ecosystem reacts to the change and life forms either adapt or die.
The greenhouse gas process is not an effect of entropy. You are using the term incorrectly.


No, no, no - I was referring to the overall balance of energy going IN and OUT of the system disrupting the climate systems, not some sort of faux balance within the system itself. Maybe "organized" was a bit of a reach, but the fact is global warming will result in increasingly unpredictable weather conditions. To the best of my knowledge, this hews to the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
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Re: A safe debate

Postby Jenos Ridan on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:42 pm

vtmarik wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:
vtmarik wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:
Backglass wrote: A true "GOD" wouldn't pussy foot around with hints and clues and hidden meanings.


:-s How can you be an authority on the behavior of beings you don't believe in?


Objectivity.


How can you be objective, and have a preconceived notion?


You can't.

Hence the reason the entire debate is pointless and stupid. Both sides have preconceived notions, hence neither side can be objective, hence this is all mental masturbation.

Personally, I'll stick to physical masturbation and call it a day.


Actually, it is possible. All thanks to human pride and arrogance. The downside, this means you are a hypocrite.
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Postby flashleg8 on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:59 pm

spurgistan wrote:
flashleg8 wrote:
spurgistan wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:What does global warming have to do with entropy?


Everything. What we have right now (at least, are supposed to have) is a earth system that balances out over time. Solar heat enters, some is stored in the earth systemsome is reflected back out to the solar system, and some is reflected back out. A lot of fragile climate patterns (wind, ocean current, etc.) are reliant on this balance. Well, then mr cunning human and his combustion enter the story. Greenhouse gas emissions result in more heat being trapped in the system, and many of these fragile processes break down into entropy. And, as Sergeant Barnes would say, "When the system breaks down, WE break down." (Love that quote) In effect, climate change IS entropy, in that it's the breakdown of a (more or less) organizied system.


I completely disagree with you first premise - that the earth system balances out over time. Climate systems have changed on every known planet in the solar system. Our own system has changed many times. There is no "[supposed to be] balanced system". The ecosystem reacts to the change and life forms either adapt or die.
The greenhouse gas process is not an effect of entropy. You are using the term incorrectly.


No, no, no - I was referring to the overall balance of energy going IN and OUT of the system disrupting the climate systems, not some sort of faux balance within the system itself. Maybe "organized" was a bit of a reach, but the fact is global warming will result in increasingly unpredictable weather conditions. To the best of my knowledge, this hews to the 2nd law of thermodynamics.


Sorry, I might have misunderstood you there. I do agree that the build up of greenhouse gases will in turn lead to a retention of more energy within the ecosystem leading to global warming (I don't think anyone disagrees with this). It is also logical to predict that this increase of "stored" energy effects the current climate systems. But I still do not understand your link to the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
What exactly do you mean by this?
Do you mean that within the ecosystem climate systems are distribution mechanism for energy. That is surely evident for all ecosystems - global warming or not?
I am confused now (and increasingly off topic!), could you clarify your point.
(And how does all this relate to God again?)
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Postby spurgistan on Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:03 am

Well, the atmosphere is in the sky. So is God. Thus, the two are inextricably linked. So when we warm the atmosphere, God gets heavily irritated, and begins the Apocalypse, which only leads to further environmental degradation.
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Postby Jenos Ridan on Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:13 am

spurgistan wrote:Well, the atmosphere is in the sky. So is God. Thus, the two are inextricably linked. So when we warm the atmosphere, God gets heavily irritated, and begins the Apocalypse, which only leads to further environmental degradation.


Read Revelation, it says there will be a NEW earth. One without evil. I think that is a fair trade.
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Postby flashleg8 on Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:16 am

spurgistan wrote:Well, the atmosphere is in the sky. So is God. Thus, the two are inextricably linked. So when we warm the atmosphere, God gets heavily irritated, and begins the Apocalypse, which only leads to further environmental degradation.


:lol:
(I'm 90% sure your joking. But as I've learned from other posters on this site, you can never be sure...)
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Re: A safe debate

Postby luns101 on Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:32 am

Backglass wrote:I was in Las Vegas all last week "sinning". Boy was it fun. :twisted:


Well, they do say that's the place for it.

Backglass wrote:How bout that wedding huh? Been fitted for your ball and chain yet? :lol: You should let me plan your bachelor party. ;)


Man, she came over today and organized everything! How am I supposed to find everything when it is neat and organized. My old system of just throwing piles of clothes on the floor was doing just fine. Now I have to actually look in drawers.

Backglass wrote:...and none of your examples are "direct". Direct is a giant face in the cloud to the entire world at once (or some such). No smoke and mirrors or burning bushes for one. No dreams or voices at night. A true "GOD" wouldn't pussy foot around with hints and clues and hidden meanings.


Well, I would submit to you that the events mentioned in the Bible are direct. The fact that He used different ways to communicate to mankind is His prerogative. He doesn't answer to man's standard of proof.

I would just say that if countless miracles, the incarnation of the Son of God as Jesus Christ, his resurrection from the dead, the eyewitness accounts of such events, and the recording of them in Scripture isn't enough to convince someone, then why would a giant face in the cloud to the entire world make any more difference.

There probably would be a few people who would believe if something like that happened, but I doubt the majority of people would. It wouldn't be too long before they started looking for alternative explanations so they could go back to their old, comfortable ways. Miracles have a short shelf-life, which is one of the reasons Jesus refused to perform them at one point.
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Re: A safe debate

Postby genius6 on Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:37 am

luns101 wrote:I would just say that if countless miracles, the incarnation of the Son of God as Jesus Christ, his resurrection from the dead, the eyewitness accounts of such events, and the recording of them in Scripture isn't enough to convince someone, then why would a giant face in the cloud to the entire world make any more difference.


And when did these events supposedly take place place? 2000 years ago. Who witnessed them? People who are long dead. We're supposed to just take the Church's word for it that everything in the Bible is right and true, even though it is to their direct advantage to lie through their teeth about anything and everything to do with "God"? I mean, where does their power come from? Believers like you who blindly follow. Like sheep. If the church told you to walk off a cliff because God willed it I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to do so.
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Re: A safe debate

Postby luns101 on Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:50 am

genius6 wrote:And when did these events supposedly take place place? 2000 years ago.


You'll have to read it for yourself. I don't want to spoil the surprise.

genius6 wrote:Who witnessed them?


In a majority of cases, the person who wrote the book.

genius6 wrote:We're supposed to just take the Church's word for it that everything in the Bible is right and true, even though it is to their direct advantage to lie through their teeth about anything and everything to do with "God"?


Sounds like you've already made up your mind. Which church are you talking about BTW? Isn't it in the atheists best interest to lie through their teeth about evidence that conflicts with their worldview? Sounds like your criticism is extremely one-sided.

genius6 wrote:I mean, where does their power come from?


Again, which church are you talking about?

genius6 wrote: Believers like you who blindly follow. Like sheep. If the church told you to walk off a cliff because God willed it I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to do so.


Ahh, that's right. Let's continue with accusations against people who you know nothing about. And if any church told me to do anything, I would check it against what the Bible said. Your example is hyperbole.
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Re: Through scientific study we have developed a theory....

Postby nunz on Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:11 am

heavycola wrote:

OK first up, natural selection is anything BUT random... anyway...
I WENT to a religious school, where i was taught all about evolution. It is NOT a god denying idea! It is a scientific theory that fits the evidence, nothing more, nothing less. Questions like, why does the universe work according to these strict, life-giving laws? or, why does science do such a good job of describing our universe? are where the dispute lies, IMHO, and are for another argument. Evolution OTOH is science.


Therein lies the rub. I don't think it does fit the evidence. Survival of the fittest through natural selection via the mechanism of adaptation to me does not have the proof it requires to hold it as a valid theory.

Most of my arguments are not from a religious basis, rather a scientific one. The facts don't stand up to support evolution through selective adaptation. THe fossil record for example is an excellent example. If selective adaptation caused the development of new species then there would be a fossil record of slow change. There isn't. Period. The original Darwinian theory has been revised by evolutionists as being unsupportable. They are now aiming for a sudden change - large change in a hurry type theory which has its own flaws.

I am not being disingenuous. Neither am I arguing from a 'Christian' stand point. I am arguing from a scientific standpoint which finds the evidence completely unacceptable.

I would be prepared to accept evolution as a Christian if it was scientifically supportable but I don't believe it is.
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Re: Through scientific study we have developed a theory....

Postby heavycola on Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:24 am

nunz wrote:
heavycola wrote:

OK first up, natural selection is anything BUT random... anyway...
I WENT to a religious school, where i was taught all about evolution. It is NOT a god denying idea! It is a scientific theory that fits the evidence, nothing more, nothing less. Questions like, why does the universe work according to these strict, life-giving laws? or, why does science do such a good job of describing our universe? are where the dispute lies, IMHO, and are for another argument. Evolution OTOH is science.


Therein lies the rub. I don't think it does fit the evidence. Survival of the fittest through natural selection via the mechanism of adaptation to me does not have the proof it requires to hold it as a valid theory.

Most of my arguments are not from a religious basis, rather a scientific one. The facts don't stand up to support evolution through selective adaptation. THe fossil record for example is an excellent example. If selective adaptation caused the development of new species then there would be a fossil record of slow change. There isn't. Period. The original Darwinian theory has been revised by evolutionists as being unsupportable. They are now aiming for a sudden change - large change in a hurry type theory which has its own flaws.

I am not being disingenuous. Neither am I arguing from a 'Christian' stand point. I am arguing from a scientific standpoint which finds the evidence completely unacceptable.

I would be prepared to accept evolution as a Christian if it was scientifically supportable but I don't believe it is.


But I have never met or argued with a secualrist who discounted evolution. It seems to me that the only alternative presented anywhere is creationism (or ID, whatever you wish to call it). Creationism is not scientifically compatible.

The fossil record is incredibly patchy, for several reasons. Invertebrates dont; fossilise well, for example. The geological conditions and the medium have to have been just so. There are huge gaps, as we would expect. Blaming the paucity of the fossil record means nothing.

And yet 99% of the species that have ever existed are extinct. That does not suggest a perfect creator. if He exists, he also seems to really like insects and viruses - one estimate has 10 different kinds of virus for ever other species on earth. God loves designing viruses. And bugs. Of the 10 most numerously populated creatures, the first 8 are subsea worms. the 9th is flies and the 10th is relatively insignificant. Or soemthing like that.
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Postby nunz on Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:40 am

Guiscard wrote:
Kugelblitz22 wrote:Can you imagine the uproar if the science teachers marched into Sunday mass demanding that evolution be taught in the church?


I thought this thread was dead :D

That's an interesting point actually... Would any of the more militant theists like to respond? I strongly strongly doubt that evolution and the 'science' you are disagreeing with are taught on an equal basis in Sunday schools and suchlike.

Actually they are. Many churches teach evolution and answers to why christians disagree with it from a scientific standpoint as part of our 'religious education'.
See ... we might be more enlightened than schools as we can at least handle showing the divergent theories and our arguments against them. :-)
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As promised ....

Postby nunz on Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:14 am

I've started a topic giving positive proofs for creationism from a scientific view point.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=373784#373784

Feel free to read and respond.
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Postby Guiscard on Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:38 am

nunz wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
Kugelblitz22 wrote:Can you imagine the uproar if the science teachers marched into Sunday mass demanding that evolution be taught in the church?


I thought this thread was dead :D

That's an interesting point actually... Would any of the more militant theists like to respond? I strongly strongly doubt that evolution and the 'science' you are disagreeing with are taught on an equal basis in Sunday schools and suchlike.

Actually they are. Many churches teach evolution and answers to why christians disagree with it from a scientific standpoint as part of our 'religious education'.
See ... we might be more enlightened than schools as we can at least handle showing the divergent theories and our arguments against them. :-)


And schools (at least in Britain) teach the creationist standpoint and whay SCIENCE disagrees with it! I thought you wanted evolution and creation taught on an equal level? None of us Christian-hating atheist types are completely against the teaching of creationism. I'd rather it was taught then debunked...
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Re: A safe debate

Postby b.k. barunt on Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:42 am

vtmarik wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:
vtmarik wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:
Backglass wrote: A true "GOD" wouldn't pussy foot around with hints and clues and hidden meanings.


:-s How can you be an authority on the behavior of beings you don't believe in?


Objectivity.


How can you be objective, and have a preconceived notion?


You can't.

Hence the reason the entire debate is pointless and stupid. Both sides have preconceived notions, hence neither side can be objective, hence this is all mental masturbation.

Personally, I'll stick to physical masturbation and call it a day.
Looks to me like you're still indulging in the mental. If this thread is so "pointless", why do you persist in it?
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Re: A safe debate

Postby Backglass on Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:49 am

luns101 wrote:
Backglass wrote:I was in Las Vegas all last week "sinning". Boy was it fun. :twisted:


Well, they do say that's the place for it.


Actually I was there for a convention. Work, work, work. ;)

luns101 wrote:Man, she came over today and organized everything! How am I supposed to find everything when it is neat and organized. My old system of just throwing piles of clothes on the floor was doing just fine. Now I have to actually look in drawers.


And so it begins! Soon you will learn of a mystical device called a "hamper" and be told you must use it. Strange creatures these females. :P

luns101 wrote:Well, I would submit to you that the events mentioned in the Bible are direct. The fact that He used different ways to communicate to mankind is His prerogative. He doesn't answer to man's standard of proof.


And so we start with the cop-outs. "Mysterious ways", "doesn't answer to mans standard of proof", "wont show himself, you must seek him", etc.

It's convenient answers to explain myths about fantasies.

If gods really did exist, they would NOT hide in the shadows. These are just handy excuses to reason away the obvious fact that gods (for tens of thousands of years/religions) are an invention of man...created to explain away the pain, suffering and injustices of our world. Nobody wants to die...the finality of death is difficult to rationalize and so the fable of an afterlife and a "sky daddy" helps to make it easier to digest.
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Re: A safe debate

Postby luns101 on Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:57 pm

Backglass wrote:And so we start with the cop-outs. "Mysterious ways", "doesn't answer to mans standard of proof", "wont show himself, you must seek him", etc.

It's convenient answers to explain myths about fantasies.

If gods really did exist, they would NOT hide in the shadows. These are just handy excuses to reason away the obvious fact that gods (for tens of thousands of years/religions) are an invention of man...created to explain away the pain, suffering and injustices of our world. Nobody wants to die...the finality of death is difficult to rationalize and so the fable of an afterlife and a "sky daddy" helps to make it easier to digest.


Which I believe proves the point I'm trying to make. It's not a matter of convincing people with proof because the human mind is an incredible thing...if someone doesn't want to believe, all the evidence in the world will not change their mind. It's more a matter of someone's will.
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Postby got tonkaed on Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:50 pm

im willing to give credence to the notion that will is incredibly important in determing faith, but i also would argue will is going to be important in just about everything. I dont think pure intellect alone (no matter the degree of that intellect) allows individuals to make decisions. Although the issue hasnt come up very often, part of the reason that proofs of Christianity dont appeal to me quite as much, is for the simple reason that there are so many religions who ask for belief along similar lines of proof. If there was no religion in the world other than christianity and the lines of proof were given as they frequently have been, then that would certainly be one thing. But it is difficult to will oneself to accept the proof of one faith over the mulitiude of others when there are numerous religious texts, difficult to explain experiences and other elements which people would believe leads to the veracity of their faith. It may be an argument for a different level of conciousness, but it makes it difficult to accept any of the proofs of one particular faith, especially when each of those proofs can be counterargued.
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Re: A safe debate

Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:00 pm

Backglass wrote:
luns101 wrote:
Backglass wrote:I was in Las Vegas all last week "sinning". Boy was it fun. :twisted:


Well, they do say that's the place for it.


Actually I was there for a convention. Work, work, work. ;)

luns101 wrote:Man, she came over today and organized everything! How am I supposed to find everything when it is neat and organized. My old system of just throwing piles of clothes on the floor was doing just fine. Now I have to actually look in drawers.


And so it begins! Soon you will learn of a mystical device called a "hamper" and be told you must use it. Strange creatures these females. :P


Well since I'm all chatty kathy today I'll chime in here too. Jealous I didn't get to go to Vegas. :?

That hamper isn't bad, only issue is when you throw across the room and miss, I guess close is only good for horse shoes, curling and hand grenades.

My bigger complaint is the
Me, "Where's my ______ ?"
Her, "How should I know, I didn't touch it."
Me,"Ok did we have an intruder? It's not here where I left it a couple of hours ago because I'm too lazy to put it away."
Her, "Here it is, I guess I moved it when I was cleaning up the table." Game.
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Re: A safe debate

Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:46 pm

luns101 wrote:
Backglass wrote:And so we start with the cop-outs. "Mysterious ways", "doesn't answer to mans standard of proof", "wont show himself, you must seek him", etc.

It's convenient answers to explain myths about fantasies.

If gods really did exist, they would NOT hide in the shadows. These are just handy excuses to reason away the obvious fact that gods (for tens of thousands of years/religions) are an invention of man...created to explain away the pain, suffering and injustices of our world. Nobody wants to die...the finality of death is difficult to rationalize and so the fable of an afterlife and a "sky daddy" helps to make it easier to digest.


Which I believe proves the point I'm trying to make. It's not a matter of convincing people with proof because the human mind is an incredible thing...if someone doesn't want to believe, all the evidence in the world will not change their mind. It's more a matter of someone's will.
The bible doesn't explain away bad things, they can and do still happen even to people that believe in "sky daddy" or better yet are a card carrying member of some fine religion.

I find it facinating the way a fair number of the miraculas things Jesus did are presented in the bible. Showing people believing what they want to.

I would like to think I see some crazy thing like a guy getting his ear cut off by a sword then put back on would amaze me and make me think, Ok, how'd you do that? But check out the reaction here.

Luke 22 (New American Standard Bible)
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Luke 22
47While He was still speaking, behold, a crowd came, and the one called Judas, one of the twelve, was preceding them; and he approached Jesus to kiss Him.
48But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"

49When those who were around Him saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?"

50And one of them struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his right ear.

51But Jesus answered and said, "Stop! No more of this." And He touched his ear and healed him.

52Then Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders who had come against Him, "Have you come out with swords and clubs as you would against a robber?

53"While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours."

Jesus' Arrest
54 Having arrested Him, they led Him away and brought Him to the house of the high priest;
The last part is particularly interesting to me.


Jesus puts a severed ear back on a guy (that could have been a pretty handy skill at zizi the other day) then says, "Hey man, I've been hanging out at your churches every day, you hardly talk to me, what's up with the swords and clubs and stuff?"

Guys completely ignoring the ear thing, respond, "Uh, come with us dude tell it to the judge."

I love these stories but coupled with, strange church versions and what Glass is telling me it's all quite confusing.

First this is supposed to be written and compiled to convince me of what ever the guys that did it wanted me to believe. If I'm following common ideas regarding that. Something about "I'm on the brink of going to hell, aaaaaaaaaaa!" Don't eat pork etc.

I think if you actually read the bible there's so much that doesn't quite line up with the watered down versions churches tell you. ie. Jesus and his deciple guys were these hippy peacenic guys, prancing around being nice.

Uh, dude just flipped out jedi style here and cut off buddies ear. Hello?!?
Peace to you my friend, Yiiiiiiiiii *slash*!

I just don't understand how brilliant the guys would have to be to write this stuff out of imagination in so few drafts. Yet they didn't have windows and were still cooking over a stick that was on fire.
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Postby Jenos Ridan on Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:28 pm

Backglass wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:No, the illusion of there being nothing greater than self is the invention of Your mind.


I can imagine a godless universe. You cannot.


Because it isn't the reallity.

Backglass wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote: And as I said earlier, I don't care about the how; the only question important to me (and most people) is WHY! Since you desire to reduce all that is noble about man to equations and formulae, you are the one living in delusion.


:lol: "Reduce all that is noble about man to equations and forulae?!" Thanks so much for putting worlds in my mouth. Again the broad brush that an atheist somehow cannot enjoy music, the arts or the beauty of the world around us. It comical quite frankly. I just don't need a magical god to enjoy them.


I was talking about your intent, the motive behind the words. You are very transparent, and equally void of life. I'm not talking about the 'pleasures' of this world, I'm talking about spiritual joy, a sence of doing good for the greater glory. God is not a cruel slave driver, just a father wanting to re-establish a relationship with his children. It is most difficult to do so when most refuse to cooperate.


Backglass wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:All I can say is this, those who claim that they don't feel empty are simply lying to themselves.


Again with the inner torment. :roll: News flash: Not everyone feels empty on the inside without religion.


So you say. Just keep on thinking that way, 'cause all I'm here to go is spread the good news about God. Period.


Backglass wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:as for the crutch part, at least I have to desire and, therefore, the strength of will to seek after something noble in the midst of so much evil and chaos.


Huh? Is this how you reason away your cult? You are seeking something noble? Life is all around you...enjoy it. No need to seek fables and lore.


Again, Satan would have me distracted by this world and things in it. I made that mistake in the past and it is not easy to stay on the narrow path. Your way is the broad path spoken of in Matthew 7:13-14 which leads straight to destruction. Not that you are in league with evil, but by trying, you're being a tool. Most foolish.


Jenos Ridan wrote:In your view, I'm a weakling. In my view, you are deceived. In the end, it comes down to the old saying to the effect of the wise already got it and the fools refuse to heed it.


In my view gods don't exist...thats all. You keep on believing if it helps you get through the day without your rage.[/quote]

That's right, just keep on lying to yourself. It has worked prefectly so far.
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Postby unriggable on Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:33 pm

Oh my god! A book telling me everything discovred ever is wrong? How can I resist?

If there is a god, he must not a have a huge role in the events of the universe, as almost everything has a scientific explanation
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Postby got tonkaed on Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:09 pm

As always im a little hesistant to respond but i felt a little compelled. Jenos ive seen you post in a few different threads, and i think a couple times we have interacted. I respect your beliefs but i somewhat question some of the stances that you take and the percieved supremacy that you like to hold over people who dont share your views.
="Jenos Ridan
Because it isn't the reallity.

Dont get wrong, i understand that you believe in your faith very strongly and that its important to your life. But at the same time to claim that you know the cosmic reality, no matter what side of the debate you are on as firmly as you do, is a somewhat ethnocentric stance to take.

I was talking about your intent, the motive behind the words. You are very transparent, and equally void of life. I'm not talking about the 'pleasures' of this world, I'm talking about spiritual joy, a sence of doing good for the greater glory.


I also understand how coming to faith has given you a fufilled perspective over your life and that you used to feel empty. I dont know anyone on this forum personally, but i cant imagine part of spirtiual fufillment equates to calling people transparent and devoid of life. We merely cross paths on here for a few moments and to make such bold assertions is a questionable stance to take. I realize you want to spread that sense of joy to other people, but you have to realize, that joy you feel is not tied into the religion, but the feeling that you draw from being a part of it. A subtle distinction, but one that opens up people on different faith journeys, or not faith journey at all to feel similar feelings.

Again, Satan would have me distracted by this world and things in it. I made that mistake in the past and it is not easy to stay on the narrow path. Your way is the broad path spoken of in Matthew 7:13-14 which leads straight to destruction. Not that you are in league with evil, but by trying, you're being a tool. Most foolish.


Its good that you are living a life that you can be at peace with and that you feel is the right style of life. However you must realize other religions also have similar claims about the necesity to follow their path. Now i would assume that you may argue that Christianity is the true religion, but objectively its ultimatly a matter of preference. Though i dont always agree with backglass's methods, to claim that someone is in league with evil/heading toward destruction/and is a foolish tool, speaks volumes about you, and i dont think its a message that you really want to ascribe to.


That's right, just keep on lying to yourself. It has worked prefectly so far.


again implicit in this statement are heavily ethnocentric views. But lets pretend that you are right. Perhaps backglass is lying to himself, why does it matter to you all that much? i mean aside from the debating on here, you two probably wont come into contact. Backglass's personal religious views (or lack their of) probably wont force him to support any kind of religious cause which threatens your own in the religiously free united states. So Why? what does it matter that someone doesnt ascribe to your personal belief system? I know that im occasionally out of line (luns does a pretty good job of showing me when im being a bit ethnocentric and making invalid assumptions, i mean well btw) But i dont claim to know you jenas. I might occasionally make claims about wider groups of religious behavior, but i dont claim to know any of the individual practicioners. All i can really know is from the statements that you make in forum fashion like this. And i question whether or not that person is as secure and as at peace as you claim to be. [/quote]
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Postby unriggable on Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:27 pm

Is there anybody here who believes in a Young Earth?
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Postby Backglass on Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:22 pm

Jenos Ridan wrote:Because it isn't the reallity.


Prove it.

Jenos Ridan wrote:You are very transparent, and equally void of life. I'm not talking about the 'pleasures' of this world, I'm talking about spiritual joy, a sence of doing good for the greater glory.


Yup thats me..."Mr. Cellophane". :lol: The hilarious thing about you zealots is that if you don't believe the fairy tales hook line and sinker...your with "Satan"...which by the way, I don't believe in either. Also...there are no unicorns or centaurs in case you were wondering.

Jenos Ridan wrote:just a father wanting to re-establish a relationship with his children. It is most difficult to do so when most refuse to cooperate.


Sounds like an absent father who skipped town to me. When was the last time he spoke to you? (actual words now...no dreams or images in the grilled cheese).

Jenos Ridan wrote:So you say. Just keep on thinking that way, 'cause all I'm here to go is spread the good news about God. Period.


And I suppose all the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists are all secretly miserable as well? You sure know a lot about millions of people. Are you Jimmy Swaggart?

Jenos Ridan wrote:Again, Satan would have me distracted by this world and things in it. I made that mistake in the past and it is not easy to stay on the narrow path. Your way is the broad path spoken of in Matthew 7:13-14 which...blah blah blah (SNIP mindless cult ramblings)


Again...because you are/were a fuckup doesn't mean everyone is/was. Your choices were your own...not some mythical evil puppeteer. Take some personal responsibility would you instead of blaming evil spirits?

Jenos Ridan wrote:That's right, just keep on lying to yourself. It has worked prefectly so far.


I am also lying to myself about angels, demons and leprechauns I suppose. Sorry pal, I didn't drink the kool-aid. :lol:
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