Matrix Mafia Endgame, Town and Survivors win!

[jonty125]

No one questions this? This would solve nothing and is impossible to enforce.

I and several other did mention we disagree

ok it seems like im the second choice. well i assume mafia might target me maybe? not really sure though. im not directing but if someone could watch me. tracking is pointless as im a VT but if the tracker feels the need then go ahead. anyway IM NOT DIRECTING!.

Why would mafia kill you? Your seen as scummy and if you're town who likes scum you'll survive.

My vote stays on S7C but will drop hammer on vodean.

[pmchugh]

ok it seems like im the second choice. well i assume mafia might target me maybe? not really sure though. im not directing but if someone could watch me. tracking is pointless as im a VT but if the tracker feels the need then go ahead. anyway IM NOT DIRECTING!.

Why would the mafia target you if you survive tonight? You are tripping off everyone scumdars... They will probably want you to live so that we lynch you

Hi again MoB, you appear not to have voted anyone yet. This post seems rather like filler too. Do you find clever/vodean suspicious? You stated you found vodean suspicious earlier and now you seem to be saying clever is too, so I don't understand why your vote is not on either. Also do you have any thoughts on who is suspicious outside of them two?

p.s. I know I haven't voted but that is because I think neither wagon is good.

PMC, where is the confusion at? I suggest you reread my posts if you do not know my position on these bandwagons. I have said it multiple times that I think there is a scum bandwagon on Clever right now. I really do think this lynch is very important today, because we are divided. Depending upon how one of them flips it will be priceless later in the game.

You say that I think clever is scum, can you point out where I even hinted at that notion? I think clever is town this game. as IB said the "Please don't kill me" isn't helping his case, and his last post trying to direct night actions isn't helping either though. I just questioned his post as to why he thinks he will be a target tonight as the mafia would rather keep him alive so that we are inclined to lynch him.

Sorry I missed your vote, that makes more sense. Although there is no need to post a picture, a quote would have done lol.

[vodean]

guys hold on! i am town. tonight, jak and doom can check. please dont kill me.

Fasposted by vodean. Thanks for reminding me!
FOS Deadly for attempting to throw on pressure (on what seems will be our BW of the day)

Ghostly, I was the 2nd person to cast a vote on vodean back on page 74.

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

So far this is the first case of somebody that can enter the matrix being VT.

I think we need to test this claim and get this whole Matrix/Zion meta strategy out of our systems. Plus, I disagree with quite a few things vodean said.

I kinda feel really bad though, she just read 74 pages and I am voting her? vote vodean

With Jak and Doom claiming a lot more information, I don't want to risk another power role to claim. I think we should proceed with vodean today.

vote vodean

Fasposted by vodean. Thanks for reminding me!
FOS Deadly for attempting to throw on pressure (on what seems will be our BW of the day)

Ghostly, I was the 2nd person to cast a vote on vodean back on page 74.

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

So far this is the first case of somebody that can enter the matrix being VT.

I think we need to test this claim and get this whole Matrix/Zion meta strategy out of our systems. Plus, I disagree with quite a few things vodean said.

I kinda feel really bad though, she just read 74 pages and I am voting her? vote vodean

With Jak and Doom claiming a lot more information, I don't want to risk another power role to claim. I think we should proceed with vodean today.

vote vodean

wait so you're going to kill me when there is a better case against clever? the extent of the case against me is that i said some things that were wrong, which i can explain by having to read 70 pages of stuff, and that i claimed early. i apologize for that, but i was honest and did stir up good conversation. so please, if we are going to lynch someone while not going for a power role, let it be clever. a significant FOS in your direction. and everyone that jumped on the BW after that post, the only reason you could have for doing so would be to kill me, since i already claimed... that seems scummy.

instead of me, lets put pressure back on clever.

if i do end up dying, jak and doom, please look into MoB and clever...
town, support them, they are not perfect, but have steered us in some fairly ok directions. now that they claimed, they need out support, but can do more work.

vote clever

[DoomYoshi]

unvote vote clever

My vote on pmc because he was the first to rolefish.

My vote is on clever now for being ridiculous.

Mafia Target? A VT as mafia target? Did you really actually say that Clever?
I haven't seen you push forward any annoying cases that may have bothered the mafia so your argument doesn't hold. (I mean cases which annoy the mafia members since they are backed into a corner).

[DoomYoshi]

@vodean: we don't have magical cop powers. Jak is a tracker, so we can't verify 100% town.

[jak111]

Really Clever? You'd be a target? Doom and I now have a major arrow over our heads with the lover condition (which I would have not told anyone about if we didn't need help on one of us to protect us both).

My case on Vodean is more in the jumping around and calling everyone scum for voicing their opinions and voting to go with their opinions. Would you rather everyone claim and no one can be voted for? I'm only willing to let you slide today because Clever is digging himself a deeper hole. It's majorly scummy to ask a watcher to watch a sheep VT, and say it's because you 'contribute' which is a load of bull. The original case on you was because you sheep vote Clever, that's NOT contributing.

Unvote, Vote Clever.

Don't think yourself clear Vodean. Accusing everyone of being scum is desperate and scummy at the same time. You picked 6-10 scummy players, when I myself only have 2-3.

[edocsil]

I will be gone until Monday. Have a good holiday.

[pmchugh]

My vote on pmc because he was the first to rolefish.

Well you could have been the twins or some other not necessarily town group, I backed off when you guys basically softed neo/trinity.

Well it looks like clever is on his way to the deathbed. It would be nice if you could round up your thoughts on other people and who you think could be scum before you get lunched clever.

[thehippo8]

Well it looks like clever is on his way to the deathbed. It would be nice if you could round up your thoughts on other people and who you think could be scum before you get lunched clever.

This is a strange comment pmc! Why would you care what Clever thinks if you want him dead. Surely if you think he's scum then you distrust him. You can't have it both ways.

This game is like watching reeds blowing in the breeze! This way, that way, it's enough to make me giddy! Maybe we can stop the fence sitting and make some decisions people?

@Jak - y'all sounding a little high and mighty there. Maybe you wanna go back and have a re-read before you simply cause a regurgitaion!

Anyways, if y'all wanna lynch Clever go ahead! I voted Vodean on the basis of the aforementioned discussion. I'd really like to hear what the fence sitters think, maybe you can convince me why the Vodean case is puffery and the Clever case is solid - but I suspect it's the other way - for now anyway!

[pmchugh]

Well it looks like clever is on his way to the deathbed. It would be nice if you could round up your thoughts on other people and who you think could be scum before you get lunched clever.

This is a strange comment pmc! Why would you care what Clever thinks if you want him dead. Surely if you think he's scum then you distrust him. You can't have it both ways.

This game is like watching reeds blowing in the breeze! This way, that way, it's enough to make me giddy! Maybe we can stop the fence sitting and make some decisions people?

@Jak - y'all sounding a little high and mighty there. Maybe you wanna go back and have a re-read before you simply cause a regurgitaion!

Anyways, if y'all wanna lynch Clever go ahead! I voted Vodean on the basis of the aforementioned discussion. I'd really like to hear what the fence sitters think, maybe you can convince me why the Vodean case is puffery and the Clever case is solid - but I suspect it's the other way - for now anyway!

I'm not voting clever. I don't think he is scum, although it is still sometimes useful to make people sweat and produce a lot of WIFOMy material. Also I will vote you if you don't stop using "y'all"

If you are calling me a fence sitter, I am sitting on no fences. I am on the no lynch side of both fences.

[thehippo8]

@pmc - hmm, socan you suggest what your thoughts really are then, or are you keeping your powder dry? And sorry about the [unmentionable word] - I've been watching GCB and it gets infectious!

[pmchugh]

@pmc - hmm, socan you suggest what your thoughts really are then, or are you keeping your powder dry? And sorry about the [unmentionable word] - I've been watching GCB and it gets infectious!

To be honest I am not up enough in this game to have a concrete case. The stand outs for me are everywhere and mob, maybe IB but until I bother my arse for a proper read through I don't have much to say.

[shieldgenerator7]

Alright, caught up (how did I read "vodean" as "neb" )

First off I have a few things to say about S7C. Honestly I am ashamed to admit I haven't noticed any changes in his play style, but to those of you who say he has changed his play style, I say he's trying out different playing stlyes to see how they work out. Props to S7C!
ON the flipside, I do not comprehend WHY scum would target you tonight being a VT and all, even if you are vibrantly active. Tho if it was a ploy to distract attention away from jak and doom, nice try dude. It doesn't seem like it turned out so well tho. I will refrain from voting as I don't know how many votes are out there right now.

NOTE TO MAFIA: jak and doom are NOT good night targets. They will be protected / busdriven / watched, and not only will you waste a night kill targeting them but you might also risk being killed by your own bullet (b/c of busdriver as evidenced by freezie's death), and also the watcher will find out who you are if indeed we have another watcher in this game (which is unlikely). SO trying to NK them would result in a wasted kill = more chance for town to survive, and more chance for them to catch you. In conclusion, do NOT target jak or doom tonight. See ya tomorrow mafia (we'll get you yet )

Haha, you found my post pre-emptively voting you, huh Vodean? (this was a while back on page 73)
Well you have sure stirred things up and contributed a lot. I won't vote on the concept that you are a replacement and I don't want your huge read-thru to be for nothing. (this also happened to ghostly in pokemon after posting his notes and FOSs)

I find it scummy that doom wanted all VTs to claim today, but he and jak are cleared (or rather, semi-cleared; as they could still be fakeclaiming, tho with no CC it is very unlikely) so they are town in my eyes. (and thus can pretty much do whatever they want)

I have noticed what vodean said about the link between hippo, S7C, and edoc; and even just now hippo is trying to deflect the BW from S7C onto vodean. NOt sure if that's a for sure mafia linkage but will keep that in mind. NOTED.

-SG7 ( )

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

clever(8)- leehar, dj, vodean, ghostly, soundman, IB, doom, jak
hippo(1)- jonty
vodean(8)- edoc, chuck, clever, betiko, hippo, mob, neb, everywhere

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

[shieldgenerator7]

Ok so it's a tie between vodean and S7C, and no point now in voting them unless you want to lynch them. It'll take me a few more time to think before I vote and to assess reasons to vote them

[pmchugh]

NOTE TO MAFIA: jak and doom are NOT good night targets. They will be protected / busdriven / watched, and not only will you waste a night kill targeting them but you might also risk being killed by your own bullet (b/c of busdriver as evidenced by freezie's death), and also the watcher will find out who you are if indeed we have another watcher in this game (which is unlikely). SO trying to NK them would result in a wasted kill = more chance for town to survive, and more chance for them to catch you. In conclusion, do NOT target jak or doom tonight. See ya tomorrow mafia (we'll get you yet

Is there a purpose to this other than to make yourself look like you are doing something?

[shieldgenerator7]

NOTE TO MAFIA: jak and doom are NOT good night targets. They will be protected / busdriven / watched, and not only will you waste a night kill targeting them but you might also risk being killed by your own bullet (b/c of busdriver as evidenced by freezie's death), and also the watcher will find out who you are if indeed we have another watcher in this game (which is unlikely). SO trying to NK them would result in a wasted kill = more chance for town to survive, and more chance for them to catch you. In conclusion, do NOT target jak or doom tonight. See ya tomorrow mafia (we'll get you yet

Is there a purpose to this other than to make yourself look like you are doing something?

yes there is a purpose beyond that one; it's to help the mafia make good NK decisions (if you don't get what I'm doing I'll tell you by the end of the game )

[pmchugh]

I get what you are trying to do, I think everyone does. Do you really think in saying that you will save jak and/or doom? Do you not think that watchers and doctors already know where the safe place to be is and that mafia already know the WIFOM risk involved in picking them? I just don't see how your post makes any difference, apart from to appear like you are doing something. Maybe I am over estimating some other players in the game but if I were mafia or a town PR I would not be effected by your post.

Ironically I think doom and jak are safer now that they name claimed.

[thechuck51]

i do believe your claims there were just those small things i was wondering about. I will reread the scenes to make sure i was interpreting them correctly.

Aye, do that. I've been debating with him whether or not we should tell today through things only we knew. (Although he didn't know I was roleblocked, I didn't make a code for that because I didn't think I'd be roleblocked). But besides that, we've been out with any information that can help town. Anything that only helps us is still our little secret.

Also, if it was a townie who role blocked me last night, pick a new target, I was about to clear another VT. (whether or not Hippo is clear is still questionable but he has the benefit of doubt from me for he didn't go anywhere).

I believe your claims but I think you are wrong about the night scenes. I know that we shouldn't waste too much time reading into the flavor but I can't help myself.

Here is what I think happened each night:

Night 1 - An agent (not smith) attacked a man in a white suit (in my opinion seraph) who was saved by a woman (the oracle or maybe switch) in a car. Smith attacked a man in a suit (Neo/Doom) who was busdriven with morpheus/freezie who was killed. (Any protection you offered doom wasn't needed. I think its seraph because of the white suit and the woman can;t be you/trinity because you were protecting neo/doom.)

Night 2 - An agent (not smith) attacked a man (not neo/doom) who was able to escape (hider??). Smith attacked Cowboyz/Mifune who was killed.

I am going through this not to question your claim but because I think it is important that we all agree the best we can so when people start to come forward with information we can make the best decisions. If everybody thinks this is a waste of time I will try not to post about it anymore.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

unvote vote clever

My vote on pmc because he was the first to rolefish.

My vote is on clever now for being ridiculous.

Mafia Target? A VT as mafia target? Did you really actually say that Clever?
I haven't seen you push forward any annoying cases that may have bothered the mafia so your argument doesn't hold. (I mean cases which annoy the mafia members since they are backed into a corner).

read my post again it wasnt the fact that i was vt but that i was being useful to town. idk what you mean i feel im being kinda useful. i guess its really opinion based

[vodean]

im not accusing them all of being scum, or even scummy, but perhaps worth looking into. all im saying is that at times they seem a little off. Thats what ive been saying the last 3 pages. Also, im graduating this weekend, so my activity might be a little iffy. If you are planning to lynch me, please refrain from doing so until monday, or unless i respond at L-1.

SG7, thanks for understanding what i see in clever, hippo, and edoc (finally, SOMEONE sees it). it does not mean that they are necessarily scum, but does mean that if one is, they likely all are.

Clever, you have not been useful to any extent greater than any other VT could be. I have only been useful in that i stirred up a lot of conversation, and since i've been here, cases against you and MoB have gotten much stronger. But anyone COULD have done that. So my vote stays on you.

As for SG7, while i dont think that he's mafia, his last post, telling the mafia what to do was either REALLY REALLY dumb (if it doesnt work or if he is mafia) or quite smart (i think i know what he's playing at)

[jonty125]

unvote Didn't realise my vote was on hippo, will probably choose between S7C and vodean after the weekend.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

im not accusing them all of being scum, or even scummy, but perhaps worth looking into. all im saying is that at times they seem a little off. Thats what ive been saying the last 3 pages. Also, im graduating this weekend, so my activity might be a little iffy. If you are planning to lynch me, please refrain from doing so until monday, or unless i respond at L-1.

Clever, you have not been useful to any extent greater than any other VT could be. I have only been useful in that i stirred up a lot of conversation, and since i've been here, cases against you and MoB have gotten much stronger. But anyone COULD have done that. So my vote stays on you.

OH REALLY

Clever, no. you are not scummy because you defended people. your buddies hippo and edoc are the ones scummy because the consistently defend me. jak defends me sometimes, but then in the next post he goes and attacks me... im not sure what to make of him. if you are VT, im sorry, but you make scummy posts, and in previous days pushed for VT to be killed

fastposted x3

I am a VT. I dont KNOW whats going on. I just see whats in front of me. Clever is scummy, and when people pressure him, edoc and hipppo defend him. that sounds pretty dirty. if, like jak and doom they were to mason-claim, it might alleviate suspicion (although now, with one pair already claimed, it would put pressure on both of them, because one of them would likely be lying, or mafia-masoned ), so lets go with this, our best lead so far.
fastposted x2
If you do lynch me, then kill clever. If he is scum, kill hippo and edoc. if not, push jak and doom some more. then look into Betiko (you), leehar, and chuck.

ok, im not saying that they are all mafia. that would be ridiculous. at one point or another, you also bw'ed on them. that is the result of posting day 1 observations day 3... at this point im just saying that it seems a little scummy.

i DO think that it is worth lynching clever. if i am wrong, we leave hippo and co. alone, and move on (perhaps back to jack and doom), or perhaps on to IB, leehar, chuck, and edoc, who seem normal most of the time, but with the occasional scummy post.
that is 8 people, 1/3rd. its an appropriate ratio (the max, but appropriate). i dont think that they are ALL mafia. just that at least one group among them are, which brings the ratio down. yes. i did FOS others, but that was for one or two posts.

like i've been saying the whole while, lynch me if you want, but listen to what i've said in the following days.
Also, no one has counter-claimed, so my claim is quite possible, and its a fairly major character

im still for this lynch... hes had 48 hours to think about it and pick a nobody to claim as that would most likely not have been included... he could have had plenty of time to mull over it with his scumbuddies hippo, edoc, sg7, everything, and chuck.
that is sketchy flavor analysis...
he was talked to... but that scene was about mifune's death only. not the kid

SO ALL IN ALL? you did think we were scummy and i just proved it. now it seems as if your trying to dig yourself out of it. you pretty much said you were also useless to town. so why would you want me dead...if you dont think im scum WHY WOULD YOU WANT ME DEAD! havent been helpful beyond the normal extend of a vt? what does that even mean. who can be more helpful than that. noone has cause we havent gotten any night actions yet. i would like to know what you mean by that

[Iron Butterfly]

ok it seems like im the second choice. well i assume mafia might target me maybe? not really sure though. im not directing but if someone could watch me. tracking is pointless as im a VT but if the tracker feels the need then go ahead. anyway IM NOT DIRECTING!.

I just checked the boards so have not read up to 85. Why would we watch a VT? Why would Mafia target a VT?

[Some7hingCLEVER]

ok it seems like im the second choice. well i assume mafia might target me maybe? not really sure though. im not directing but if someone could watch me. tracking is pointless as im a VT but if the tracker feels the need then go ahead. anyway IM NOT DIRECTING!.

I just checked the boards so have not read up to 85. Why would we watch a VT? Why would Mafia target a VT?

ya i realize this now ..it was dumb thinking i didnt realize they would probably want me to live to spark bandwagons tommorow. my bad