Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[DoomYoshi]

To cut off you off before you can: ghostly's preceding vote count gave it away a bit in retrospect. If you would have used that as an initial defense, I would let it slide. You can't use it now, cuz it means you had to research it.

[new guy1]

Im sorry. Please rephrase that. I dont get what you just said. Like Im not being sarcastic (as I usually am in my defenses) I actually didnt get what you said.

[new guy1]

Okay, I think I got it now that I read it a few more times over. Your trying to say that I cant use it to defend myself because I waited too long? Last I checked people bring cases from as early as day 1 to make a case against someone they find scummy, so why can I not go back at what I see as an appropriate time (since we are discussing the topic) and use it to somewhat defend myself? I did no research, Im just recollecting my thoughts from the past day.

[DoomYoshi]

Okay, I think I got it now that I read it a few more times over. Your trying to say that I cant use it to defend myself because I waited too long? Last I checked people bring cases from as early as day 1 to make a case against someone they find scummy, so why can I not go back at what I see as an appropriate time (since we are discussing the topic) and use it to somewhat defend myself? I did no research, Im just recollecting my thoughts from the past day.

It is outrageous to believe that you kept detailed vote count notes and jumped to a conclusion about a vote stealer without even a slight note as to what set you off.

It was possible that it is what made you think about the vote stealer. However, since you didn't bring it up right away, you can't in retrospect say "this is what made me think this way". It was only a possibility. It is no longer a possibility.

[new guy1]

Im getting tired of this. I guess I didnt get what you meant because I answered what I thought you meant and it wasnt right. I do not know why "vote stealer" popped in my head right off, I only know that it did and that is what I posted immediatly.I didnt think there would be so much commotion over a brief assumption.

[safariguy5]

I will say that a stolen vote is usually denoted by having it in red and this is really the reason to keep questions of mod oversight out of it. I don't want to rip ghostly because he's doing his best as mod, but given the relative sporadic vote counts, the long periods of time in between them could theoretically have caused him to miss a vote or unvote somewhere, so I'm not going to assume that we have a vote stealer, especially since no notification was given to the person targeted. If it was some sort of mafia silencer, I can see, but unless pmc is hiding something from us, I'm forced to conclude we don't have a vote stealer.

[pmchugh]

I will say that a stolen vote is usually denoted by having it in red and this is really the reason to keep questions of mod oversight out of it. I don't want to rip ghostly because he's doing his best as mod, but given the relative sporadic vote counts, the long periods of time in between them could theoretically have caused him to miss a vote or unvote somewhere, so I'm not going to assume that we have a vote stealer, especially since no notification was given to the person targeted. If it was some sort of mafia silencer, I can see, but unless pmc is hiding something from us, I'm forced to conclude we don't have a vote stealer.

I am almost certain my vote was taken away, ghostly would surely have noticed from reading the comments that my vote was on chap and if you actually check all VC's from day 2 I don't have a vote in any of them. My vote was definitely removed or ghostly has majorly screwed up. Most roles which steal votes usually only do so for one day so unless I was targeted again I should have it back, we really need a VC to tell.

GHOSTLY- GIVE US A VOTE COUNT

Now to be honest I missed this whole newguy being the vote stealer accusation yesterday when doom made it and it really doesn't help that he never quoted the line. So here it is:

PMC voted though... did you miss it or not? If you can confirm that. I am not familiar with if a mod is allowed to say that or not.

And here is the VC:

Official Simplified Vote Count

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch


ChapCrap – Jak111, Rodion, S7C, DoomYoshi, everywhere, djfireside, Safari, thechuck (L-1)
New Guy1 – ChapCrap
S7C – Leehar
Safariguy – SG7
Rodion – New guy1

deadline is 5/24/12 9pm EST (~ 12 hours from now). Concerns, PM me. All votes here ARE correct as far as I know.

It seems like a perfectly legitimate post to me, I don't even understand what is supposed to be scummy about saying you are not sure whether he was allowed to confirm it or not. Doom has just declared it as scummy, with no insight as to why beyond "no one else has ever asked this", I feel like I could add another "bias" to the discussion thread over that. He even went to the point of saying he should be vigged over it, that is quite ridiculous.

As for asking whether it was a vote stealer or a mod mistake, (which seems to be the line you have taken more recently) this is just plain not scummy. It is perfectly normal to question whether a mod has a vote count correct or not given that he states it is correct to his knowledge, there is a vote missing and that vote would have caused a lynch. The only way to make this into a case would be to show that newguy was attempting to toe the line precisely because it made him look townie, in which case you are going to need more evidence than that one post.

[chapcrap]

Adolf, you piece of junk, I'm gonna come back as a zombie for you!!

[DoomYoshi]

What possible reason would a mod not be allowed to say if he missed a vote?

I did quote the post. Fos pmc for skimming.

[DoomYoshi]

And now, after new guy conceded that he was thinking a vote stealer existed; pmc is denying that new guy was thinking of a vote stealer. Get your story straight guys.

[pmchugh]

And now, after new guy conceded that he was thinking a vote stealer existed; pmc is denying that new guy was thinking of a vote stealer. Get your story straight guys.

That is not what I said:

It is perfectly normal to question whether a mod has a vote count correct or not given that he states it is correct to his knowledge, there is a vote missing and that vote would have caused a lynch.

This all implies that newguy was thinking of a vote stealer and was wanting it to be further confirmed by the mod.

What possible reason would a mod not be allowed to say if he missed a vote?

I did quote the post. Fos pmc for skimming.

What possible purpose would there be of mafia asking if the mod was allowed to say?

[everywhere116]

I'm still not completely sold on the recent case against New Guy, but before I go on, I want one thing clarified: Doom, your entire case basically stems from New Guy's reaction to the "incorrect" vote count in this post, correct?

Well, since we're at a deadline and people chose to switch to me instead of away from me, I'll claim.

I'm Maj. F.H. Jackson, WWII pyrotechnician. Basically, I'm a town bomb. I soft claimed this a bunch.

I can't find anything on him beyond a wiki page and a mention in a list of soldiers, anyone got anything better?

I never seen you soft claim this at all (i looked back through all of day 2 and some of day 1), and bomb is a pretty safe mafia claim. Even with the risk of double kill I think this is a pretty decent gamble unvote vote chap

As for who hammers I would ask it not to be jak for obvious reasons. I am willing to do it. Other than myself saf would be a decent option, claimed VT and in my eyes suspicious.

PMC voted though... did you miss it or not? If you can confirm that. I am not familiar with if a mod is allowed to say that or not.

[new guy1]

Thats what his case stems from, or at least what I got from it. I dont think it holds water, but you know I have a bias...

[DoomYoshi]

Correct everywhere.
That sentence made no sense unless he knew, or strongly suspected, there was a vote stealer. If he suspected it, why did he suspect it before anyone else?
If he knew, then he is either the vote stealer, or in the mafia with one.
Also, he had a big defense prepared yesterday, but overnight conveniently forgot it. Why would he forget his defense unless his scum buddies told him that it wouldn't work?

He already admitted that he was suspecting a vote stealer. So, the question now is: on what possible grounds could a single missed vote cause someone to immediately suspect a vote stealer? As I have already posted, it is a very obscure role and probably the last thing I would think.

To say that he forgot his defense causes a further hole. We are to believe that new guy takes super accurate vote counts, but no notes of what he was going to defend himself with? Or what caused him to suspect a vote stealer?

I think now that there was no big post at the end of yesterday, it was just a stall tactic.

[pmchugh]

Correct everywhere.
That sentence made no sense unless he knew, or strongly suspected, there was a vote stealer. If he suspected it, why did he suspect it before anyone else?
If he knew, then he is either the vote stealer, or in the mafia with one.

The mod had specifically said that the vote count was correct to his knowledge and it would have been a lynch had my vote been counted, this is a fairly good indication that the mod had checked it over and that a vote stealer was present.

Also, he had a big defense prepared yesterday, but overnight conveniently forgot it. Why would he forget his defense unless his scum buddies told him that it wouldn't work?

He did promise a post which he did not deliver.

I shouldn't really be sticking up for new guy, but I think this case is ridiculous and given the fact you asked him to be vigged over it actually earns you an FOS

[pmchugh]

GHOSTLY VOTE COUNT PLEASE

[DoomYoshi]

Correct everywhere.
That sentence made no sense unless he knew, or strongly suspected, there was a vote stealer. If he suspected it, why did he suspect it before anyone else?
If he knew, then he is either the vote stealer, or in the mafia with one.

The mod had specifically said that the vote count was correct to his knowledge and it would have been a lynch had my vote been counted, this is a fairly good indication that the mod had checked it over and that a vote stealer was present.

Also, he had a big defense prepared yesterday, but overnight conveniently forgot it. Why would he forget his defense unless his scum buddies told him that it wouldn't work?

He did promise a post which he did not deliver.

I shouldn't really be sticking up for new guy, but I think this case is ridiculous and given the fact you asked him to be vigged over it actually earns you an FOS

If it is a good indication why did new guy pick up on it before you?

The weird thing here is that new guy was the number 2 case yesterday. Why am I alone out here?

[pmchugh]

If it is a good indication why did new guy pick up on it before you?

Em maybe because he posted directly after the VC? There was pretty much no time between the vote count and his response, in fact that is probably the most suspicious thing about it.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, so he noticed. I will give benefit of doubt on that point.

Now a few unanswered questions:
1) why did new guy use a tricky question to the mod rather than a public statement that there might be a vote stealer?
2) how is it that new guy noticed immediately that there was a problem With the vote count unless he is keeping accurate notes?
3) if he is keeping accurate notes, how is the thought process that made him suspect a vote stealer AND the defense missing from them? In other words, how is every pertinent piece of information missing?
4) where the hell is the big end of day post?
5 where is ghost with the VC?

[new guy1]

Ok, so he noticed. I will give benefit of doubt on that point.

Now a few unanswered questions:
1) why did new guy use a tricky question to the mod rather than a public statement that there might be a vote stealer?
2) how is it that new guy noticed immediately that there was a problem With the vote count unless he is keeping accurate notes?
3) if he is keeping accurate notes, how is the thought process that made him suspect a vote stealer AND the defense missing from them? In other words, how is every pertinent piece of information missing?
4) where the hell is the big end of day post?
5 where is ghost with the VC?

1) I figured if it was a mod error then it would be solved. If it was not a mod error and there was a vote stealer then I could move on from there.
2) I did not NOTICE, it was the first thing that came to mind. I already explained that the games Ive been in have had vote stealers and so I figured it was getting to be a common role to be thrown around.
3) My defense is missing because IDK why. I would have thought that I would put it in a notepad or in sticky notes, but apparently I didnt. I had about a 5 line post (nothing too big) in response to something or suggesting a course of action or something. I cant remember what it was about which makes it all the harder to find. I searched 3 hours last night so unless a gift of god is bestowed upon me I dont think that I will be able to recover it, however I will again search for backstory as to what my post would have said etc.
4) Was this directed to me or ghost?
5) His computer is crashing often and is going to try again tonight, but no promises. If you want, I can let him on my computer long enough to do one.

[pmchugh]

For point 5, only I have "voted" so it shouldn't take him long.

[DoomYoshi]

I voted new guy also.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ok, so he noticed. I will give benefit of doubt on that point.

Now a few unanswered questions:
1) why did new guy use a tricky question to the mod rather than a public statement that there might be a vote stealer?
2) how is it that new guy noticed immediately that there was a problem With the vote count unless he is keeping accurate notes?
3) if he is keeping accurate notes, how is the thought process that made him suspect a vote stealer AND the defense missing from them? In other words, how is every pertinent piece of information missing?
4) where the hell is the big end of day post?
5 where is ghost with the VC?

1) I figured if it was a mod error then it would be solved. If it was not a mod error and there was a vote stealer then I could move on from there.
2) I did not NOTICE, it was the first thing that came to mind. I already explained that the games Ive been in have had vote stealers and so I figured it was getting to be a common role to be thrown around.
3) My defense is missing because IDK why. I would have thought that I would put it in a notepad or in sticky notes, but apparently I didnt. I had about a 5 line post (nothing too big) in response to something or suggesting a course of action or something. I cant remember what it was about which makes it all the harder to find. I searched 3 hours last night so unless a gift of god is bestowed upon me I dont think that I will be able to recover it, however I will again search for backstory as to what my post would have said etc.
4) Was this directed to me or ghost?
5) His computer is crashing often and is going to try again tonight, but no promises. If you want, I can let him on my computer long enough to do one.

4 was at you new guy.

and i can put up a unoficial vote count. if you want. i know he is going to new orleans right now till wednesday so ill get one up to pick up the slack.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

UNOFICIAL VOTE COUNT!!

clever- pmc

new guy- doomyoshi

doomyoshi- rodion


I dont see why we needed this vote count...only like three people voted. and i guess its cause pmc is anxious to see if he has his vote back..well i cant confirm that so this is probably useless.

[pmchugh]

UNOFICIAL VOTE COUNT!!

clever- pmc

new guy- doomyoshi

doomyoshi- rodion


I dont see why we needed this vote count...only like three people voted. and i guess its cause pmc is anxious to see if he has his vote back..well i cant confirm that so this is probably useless.

Ya the whole point is to see whether I can vote..