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R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Connecting the Dots

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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Tue May 29, 2012 3:10 am

In 1864, Vice-President Hannibal Hamlin decided he had enough spare time to simultaneously serve as a cook in the coastal artillery.

    "Hamlin reported on July 7. He drilled, stood guard, and cooked with the rest of the men. No enemy ships ever appeared, and the Company never fired anything more than a practice shot from the four cannon emplaced there from the nearby Naval Shipyard. Corporal Hamlin's tour of duty on the Maine coast over, he did a little campaigning for the Republican ticket and then returned to Washington, and finished the balance of his vice presidential term."

    http://www.maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/ind ... &v=article

An astute political move by Romney. He can shore-up millions of votes without having to actually change any of his policies. Maybe Vice-President Rand Paul can give eye exams to the ladies in the White House typists pool with all the free time he'll have locked away in Romney's coat closet.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Baron Von PWN on Wed May 30, 2012 11:15 pm

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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed May 30, 2012 11:30 pm

Theodore Roosevelt complained a lot during his vice-presidency. He really couldn't do much about anything.

I think Dick Cheney made the most of the vice-presidency.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Thu May 31, 2012 12:25 am

Even though no one asked me, this is how I see things evolving ...

    Romney-Generic Ticket, Obama-Biden Wins: If the Campaign for Liberty completes its takeover of a majority of the Republican state central committees by year end, which it seems on-track to do, they can force-feed Rand Paul to the GOP as presidential nominee in 2016 in the same way the Republican Old Guard force-fed Romney to the GOP this year.

    Romney-Paul Ticket, Obama-Biden Wins: CfL force feeds Romney to GOP in 2016. But the CfL will lose non-Republican supporters once Rand Paul drops the iconoclast brand and simply becomes the warm-up act to Romney's headline.

    Romney-Generic Ticket, Romney-Generic Wins: Regardless of how well the CfL does in internal Republican Party politics they won't be able to deny a sitting president the re-nomination in 2016. It's unclear if they'd be able to influence the 2014 congressional elections in a major way.

    Romney-Paul Ticket, Romney-Paul Wins: The CfL will be fully absorbed into the Republican Party. Vice-President Rand Paul will not be able to run against his own President in 2016, he'll finish his career in relative obscurity and the Campaign for Liberty will transition into a run-of-the-mill PAC, being granted a few minor policy concessions. The "Ron Paul Revolution" will be renamed the "Ron Paul Turn Signal."

The ideal situation for the CfL IMO is an Obama-Biden victory (in an ideal situation it will be a narrow victory - even better if it's with a minority of the popular vote ... best of all if it's coupled with a Democratic loss of the Senate). The worst thing that could happen for them is if Rand Paul got the VP nomination and then went on to win. This would be the best scenario for the Republican Old Guard, though, as it would quash the insurrection through absorption.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby thegreekdog on Thu May 31, 2012 6:47 am

I still believe Obama-Biden will win, but I have a bad feeling about Rand Paul. Rand is much more mainstream than his father and will also have to compete in 2016 with more old guard Republicans with younger features (like Rubio). So, either Rand becomes even more mainstream Republican to win the nomination in 2016 or he doesn't and becomes his father.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby pmchugh on Thu May 31, 2012 8:20 am

Rand is quite possibly the worst name ever.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 31, 2012 9:30 am

pmchugh wrote:Rand is quite possibly the worst name ever.


His father was a big map fan:

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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:07 am

Almost an actual revolution in Louisiana ... it's refreshing to see the Ron Paul spokesman polished, calm and professional sounding while the IDRP spokesman is quivering, stammering, looking around wildly as if he's the next person about to be arrested and denouncing a conspiracy ... a little bit of a reverse from the normal ...


Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby jay_a2j on Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:22 am

If Paul pulls this off, this forum will not be able to contain my sheer joy and optimism for the future of this nation! =D>
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby comic boy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:29 pm

jay_a2j wrote:If Paul pulls this off, this forum will not be able to contain my sheer joy and optimism for the future of this nation! =D>


Yes because Sarah Palin set such a fine example last time , did her appointment also excite you ?
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:21 pm

pmchugh wrote:Rand is quite possibly the worst name ever.


That's Mr. Vice President Rand Paul to you pal

8-)
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
pmchugh wrote:Rand is quite possibly the worst name ever.


That's Mr. Vice President Rand Paul to you pal
8-)


I would think you WOULDN'T want this, for precisely the reasons that thegreekdog laid out. I agree with him in that analysis. Much better to be patient about it.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:31 pm

A great article written about the R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution

Writes Reason’s Brian Doherty
Paul’s campaign admits they know Romney will win the Republican Party’s presidential nomination. This has led many to wonder exactly what Paul’s trying to accomplish at the August GOP convention in Tampa. Prominent speaking slot? Platform influence? Sway over the vice presidential slot?

But what the GOP establishment needs to wonder is: what do his supporters want, and why?

Paul himself will likely not be a political player past 2013, when he leaves the House seat he’s held since 1997. But his supporters skew so young, they’ll be shaping the Party’s future far longer than Romney’s fans will.

Paul can attract over 7,000 students to come hear him speak, a level of enthusiasm no other GOP figure can muster. He’s now got 110,000 signed-up members for his “Youth for Ron Paul” group.

Why are they so passionate about this unlikely political champion?

Most politicians sell comfort—that American is the greatest, rich and mighty and right, and what small problems we have can be solved by electing our guy and getting rid of the other guy. Ron Paul wins passionate devotion selling a vision of great discomfort.

He tells us American foreign policy is misguided and understandably earns us enemies. He sees America not on the rise, but in decline because of Federal Reserve-primed booms and busts and a crushing debt burden.

He decries the American government for not protecting our liberties but rather unjustly oppressing its citizens over everything from medical marijuana to raw milk.

Unfortunately for Paul’s fans, the radical solutions the Paul worldview demands—an end to overseas military adventurism, ending government’s ability to manipulate paper currency, severe cuts in spending on all the myriad income-shifting promises Washington makes–don’t register as “practical solutions” to those who helped create the crises those policies have led us to. And that’s both the Democrats and Paul’s own Republican Party.

Even though Paul’s budget plan, with its three-year glide path to a balanced budget with no tax hikes, was found by U.S. Budget Watch, a non-partisan research group, to be the only budget plan offered by GOP candidates this year that would not balloon the national debt, the Republican Party is scared of him. Even though his supporters continue to win control of delegations (Maine, Minnesota, and Louisiana) or state party structures (in Iowa and Nevada), the Party doesn’t want to embrace him.

Because if Ron Paul is right about the dangers of government overextension both at home and abroad, it means the GOP has to actually be serious about this limited government, living-within-our-means stuff that is supposed to be the very marrow of conservatism.

If they have to swallow some sour apples about returning the U.S. military to its original goal of just actually defending the U.S. and make the government respect citizens’ civil liberties, that should be a small price to pay to attract the loyalty, votes and money of a rising generation of activists.

Paul’s people have given money and rallied in amounts and numbers far exceeding such other GOP hopefuls as Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum. Paul’s fans gave nearly as much money to his campaign as those other two candidates combined.

The Goldwater movement in 1960 was seen as too young, too radical and too outside the mainstream by the GOP establishment of its day.

The religious right during the 1988 Pat Robertson campaign was seen as an overly loud and pushy minority.

But just as those minorities grew and dominated the GOP, the libertarian-leaning energy of the Ron Paul movement is primed to shape the future of the Republican Party.

With their unique seriousness about reining in a government drowning in debt, neither the Republican Party nor the country can afford to ignore the concerns of Paul’s devotees.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:43 pm

Phatscotty wrote:A great article written about the R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution


If Rand takes the VP spot you're going to have to change this to -

Phatscotty wrote:A great article written about the B[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]uty Pageant
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:47 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:A great article written about the R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution


If Rand takes the VP spot you're going to have to change this to -

Phatscotty wrote:A great article written about the B[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]uty Pageant


yeah, we've already talked about this! Agree to disagree. I hear your points, and they are valid. But I still hold to my previous comments as well



Phatscotty wrote:Yeah I know about all that. Honestly I have not even begun to start thinking about voting for Romney. As you know I am still holding out some hope for a Ron Paul long shot, but realistically I think the best we can achieve is a cabinet position, and I hope that is in the Treasury Department. I am excited about this rumor with Rand as VP because that might increase the odds that his dad can get a cabinet deal and the convention wouldn't get ugly either.

I'm just staying realistic that it's not likely the Tea Party or anyone resembling the Doctor Paul's philosophies is going to just get elected president one day. They have to get their foot in the door, and as much as I agree the Veep is meaningless, it is a foot in the door, as well as a spot on a future presidential ticket. Don't forget either that I confidently expect the real Tea Party people (people who will actuall vote like the Pauls) will at least triple their number in 2012 and become a serious voting block. Romney can ignore the Vice, but it's not so easy when he needs 100 votes in the house and 18 in the senate....

However, I know what you mean. So long as we are moving forward and growing. A Paul in the White House would be a clear shift even if only symbolically. And I think everyone, myself included, is going to be in for a BIG surprise this November.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Phatscotty wrote:A Paul in the White House would be a clear shift even if only symbolically.


empty symbolism ... I thought we were up in arms about that or something ...

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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:18 pm

I understand your concerns. It's just a rumor. The reasons you state account for me being 35% against the idea, but the reasons I state account for 65% of liking it.

but now Rand Paul just endorsing Romney about 30 minutes ago tells me Romney and Paul came to some kind of deal, because we must assume Rand has spoken to his father about it.

I doubt the veepstake will happen, but it's fun to talk about. I admit some of this is just me wanting to get the Tea Party in the White House, but that's just a little bit of it. However, if Romney wants to win, he MUST embrace the Tea Party. I only hope the Tea Party will force him to be accountable. And of course, Ron Paul Sec Treasury!

Here is something I just read that suggests it will never happen,
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... -ron-paul/

WASHINGTON, June 5, 2012 — There has been much speculation about the meeting between Rand Paul and Mitt Romney. Rand has been mentioned as a possible vice-presidential pick for Romney, presumably to woo Ron Paul supporters who have lost faith in their candidate's chances.

On the surface, this looks like a smart idea. Congressman Paul has accumulated many more delegates than the media claims he’s won. His chances may be slim, but he has the power to cause a convention floor-fight if he chooses. Romney would like to avoid anything resembling a divided Party at the convention in Tampa. That would damage his credibility and weaken him going into the general election, hence the meeting with Senator Paul.

However, if more people understood the reasoning of Ron Paul's supporters, Rand would not be part of the VP discussion.

Getting the support of the Paul revolution would be a dream come true for the Romney campaign, but won't happen. Romney lacks many qualities that Paul’s supporters look for in a candidate. These include honesty, integrity, consistency and substance. Romney has none of these, and we haven't even gotten to his positions on the issues yet.

Ron Paul has already refused to endorse Romney as the Republican nominee, and will not endorse him even after the convention. This makes a Rand Paul vice-presidency extremely unlikely. Senator Paul is not going to put his father in the position of choosing between his son and his principles.

Romney is smart. He knows that Rand Paul is not likely to accept the VP spot out of respect for his father and their vastly different views on conservatism. Rand might not even endorse Romney due to his ideological honesty. Romney and Paul differ on issues such as the USA Patriot Act, the National Defense Authorization Act, the Federal Reserve, and our foreign policy in general. With so little common ground it is a far stretch to consider him accepting a vice-presidential nod from the former Governor of Massachusetts.

If you are not convinced that Senator Paul would not accept a spot on the ticket with Romney, remember Rand Paul's last two speeches at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). In 2010, Rand reminded the hawkish crowd that if Republicans weren't willing to consider military spending cuts, then they were “big government conservatives[s]” who “could not lay claim to balancing the budget.” He closed his speech by boldly attacking the concept of party loyalty. “It's not enough to have Republicans in charge. We're not inherently exceptional as Republicans.”
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:40 pm

Phatscotty wrote:but now Rand Paul just endorsing Romney about 30 minutes ago tells me Romney and Paul came to some kind of deal, because we must assume Rand has spoken to his father about it.


Well, every nice thing I've said about Ron/Rand Paul I hereby retract. This whole "Revolution" thing was obviously just another Madison Avenue PR trick. Yet another steam valve strategy - funnel popular discontent into an outlet you already control instead of risking it going to one you don't. The IDRP learned that one the hard way after Nader 2000.

Now that they know the Pauls are just establishment sock-puppets reciting the anti-war, anti-tax lines they're told to recite, hopefully the Ronulans will turn to Gary Johnson. Though it seems doubtful. The bulid-up in passion and energy has been too intense for most people to have the intellectual fortitude to change course.

In 1992, Buchanan stunned the Party by winning early, including the New Hampshire primary. But the candidate abruptly cancelled his effort in exchange for a prime time speaking spot at the nationally televised Republican Party convention. He too swore to change the GOP for the better. Looking back, Buchanan’s historic speech and his revolution within the party changed little or nothing. The Republican Party has since given the country two Presidents – the George Bush father and son team. If Ron Paul hopes to achieve different results by following the same path, he may be in for a rude awakening. And he may not be the only one.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ron-pau ... des-defeat
Last edited by saxitoxin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:41 pm

but, in reality, I'm thinking "who the hell is Rand supposed to endorse?"...

Obama?????
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:46 pm

Phatscotty wrote:but, in reality, I'm thinking "who the hell is Rand supposed to endorse?"...

Obama?????


There's no law anyone has to endorse anyone else. An endorsement ties you to a person's success and failure and is not a ceremonial ribbon to be given as easily as a Mormon girl's school sophomore gives her virginity.

If there were a law he had to endorse someone, he could have endorsed Gary Johnson, Virgil Goode, any number of people. But there's no such law.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:50 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:but now Rand Paul just endorsing Romney about 30 minutes ago tells me Romney and Paul came to some kind of deal, because we must assume Rand has spoken to his father about it.


Well, every nice thing I've said about Ron/Rand Paul I hereby retract. This whole "Revolution" thing was obviously just another Madison Avenue PR trick. Yet another steam valve strategy - funnel popular discontent into an outlet you already control instead of risking it going to one you don't. The IDRP learned that one the hard way after Nader 2000.

Now that they know the Pauls are just establishment sock-puppets reciting the anti-war, anti-tax lines they're told to recite, hopefully the Ronulans will turn to Gary Johnson. Though it seems doubtful. The bulid-up in passion and energy has been too intense for most people to have the intellectual fortitude to change course.

In 1992, Buchanan stunned the Party by winning early, including the New Hampshire primary. But the candidate abruptly cancelled his effort in exchange for a prime time speaking spot at the nationally televised Republican Party convention. He too swore to change the GOP for the better. Looking back, Buchanan’s historic speech and his revolution within the party changed little or nothing. The Republican Party has since given the country two Presidents – the George Bush father and son team. If Ron Paul hopes to achieve different results by following the same path, he may be in for a rude awakening. And he may not be the only one.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ron-pau ... des-defeat


I wouldn't tie Rand Paul's strategy with Ron Paul's. Rand Paul has a history of voting against Liberty, and it's been an embarrassing topic for Ron Paul to even jokingly comment about.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:54 pm

Well, it's gonna be Romney vs. Obama. So, if he wants to endorse Gary Johnson, then we have 4 more years of Obama. = fail
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:56 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Well, it's gonna be Romney vs. Obama. So, if he wants to endorse Gary Johnson, then we have 4 more years of Obama. = fail


Ron Paul behaves in tune with his principles which are in accord with freedom and liberty.

Rand Paul doesn't, or he lacks such principles.

That pretty much sums it up.
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:59 pm

PhatScotty wrote:Well, it's gonna be Romney vs. Obama. So, if he wants to endorse Gary Johnson, then we have 4 more years of Obama. = fail


I guess that's fine if you're okay with ObamaCare, War, Executions-Without-Trial, Deficit Spending and so forth provided the guy doing it is a wealthy, middle-age, corrupt, white career politician instead of a wealthy, middle-age, corrupt, half-white career politician.

    "I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don't want and get it." - Eugene Debs
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Re: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution: Rand Paul as Vice President!?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:16 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
PhatScotty wrote:Well, it's gonna be Romney vs. Obama. So, if he wants to endorse Gary Johnson, then we have 4 more years of Obama. = fail


I guess that's fine if you're okay with ObamaCare, War, Executions-Without-Trial, Deficit Spending and so forth provided the guy doing it is a wealthy, middle-age, corrupt, white career politician instead of a wealthy, middle-age, corrupt, half-white career politician.

    "I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don't want and get it." - Eugene Debs


You know I'm not. What I am okay with is a Tea Party that can make an impact against the things you named and I would further call priorities. What else will do it? I think it's the best shot we have. A lot of work has been done and a lot of roads have been paved, hopefully that will become evident in November.
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