The Obama Truth Team

[BigBallinStalin]

Wait, hold up.. hold up... ah, okay. Just had a great shit. I'm sorry, where were we?

[thegreekdog]

... I am still waiting to hear some truth with regard to my previous.

...

I can answer one of you questions. To be the head of law review in law school, one need not write an article for the law review. I believe in all three years I was in law school, the head of law review never wrote an article for it.

[Neoteny]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

[thegreekdog]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

I'm quite happy the president is directing Congress to raise capital gains tax rates. Oh, he's not? Really? Nevermind then.

[Neoteny]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

I'm quite happy the president is directing Congress to raise capital gains tax rates. Oh, he's not? Really? Nevermind then.

He will. He's waiting for the buzz around his most recent socialistic reforms to die down. Obama may not look it, but he's the smartest man in Washington. He knows that the US people need to be force-fed his communist agenda, but at a rate that is semi-palateable. It will happen soon.

[Night Strike]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

I'm quite happy the president is directing Congress to raise capital gains tax rates. Oh, he's not? Really? Nevermind then.

He will. He's waiting for the buzz around his most recent socialistic reforms to die down. Obama may not look it, but he's the smartest man in Washington. He knows that the US people need to be force-fed his communist agenda, but at a rate that is semi-palateable. It will happen soon.

Well at least you're honest about where you stand. You're dead wrong, but at least you're honest.

[thegreekdog]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

I'm quite happy the president is directing Congress to raise capital gains tax rates. Oh, he's not? Really? Nevermind then.

He will. He's waiting for the buzz around his most recent socialistic reforms to die down. Obama may not look it, but he's the smartest man in Washington. He knows that the US people need to be force-fed his communist agenda, but at a rate that is semi-palateable. It will happen soon.

Well at least you're honest about where you stand. You're dead wrong, but at least you're honest.

Do you not understand that Neoteny is joking? Let's discuss this seriously.

Name the things the president has done that makes you think he's a socialist or communist or whatever evil agenda you think the president has. He's literally done nothing that indicates he's anything other than a crony capitalist. This is, I suspect, Neoteny's point (and my point, although I'm less sarcastic about it than Neoteny is). Seriously. Name some things. Some bills he's signed into law.

[Night Strike]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

I'm quite happy the president is directing Congress to raise capital gains tax rates. Oh, he's not? Really? Nevermind then.

He will. He's waiting for the buzz around his most recent socialistic reforms to die down. Obama may not look it, but he's the smartest man in Washington. He knows that the US people need to be force-fed his communist agenda, but at a rate that is semi-palateable. It will happen soon.

Well at least you're honest about where you stand. You're dead wrong, but at least you're honest.

Do you not understand that Neoteny is joking? Let's discuss this seriously.

Name the things the president has done that makes you think he's a socialist or communist or whatever evil agenda you think the president has. He's literally done nothing that indicates he's anything other than a crony capitalist. This is, I suspect, Neoteny's point (and my point, although I'm less sarcastic about it than Neoteny is). Seriously. Name some things. Some bills he's signed into law.

To be honest, there's essentially no difference between socialism and crony capitalism. They both use the government to redistribute wealth and pick and choose which businesses are good and which ones are bad. And this president has consistently surrounded himself with avowed socialists and communists and he's working to govern from their frame of view. Crony capitalism is the gateway for socialist policies to become enacted.

[Neoteny]

I'm pretty serious. The liberal platform of actually improving things sticks in the craw of most conservatives. They are so worried about the blacks corrupting their children, the gays taking their derbs, and the Hispanics riding the welfare program like a burro that they dig in their heels at the slightest whiff of possibility. So, we liberals have to lie. Be devious. Instead of "federalizing the entire health industry" we say "healthcare reform." Instead of "socialization of your children" we say "increasing opportunities for secondary education." It's become the only way we can sneak these policies past the American public.

Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind,for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.

[BigBallinStalin]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

"NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!," howls BBS, who then writhes on the floor and dies.

[Neoteny]

It's true though. If everyone spent deficitally, we would be out of this recession like whoa. It's almost magical. But it's not. It's the science of economics without Republican spin. Turn off Bill-O BBS.

[Phatscotty]

It's pretty stupid to think we can just cut our way out of a recession. The only way out of a recession is to increase spending, both at the personal and governmental levels. Growth is only achieved through spending. Austerity and cuts and such only inhibit growth and slow the possibility of any recovery ever actually happening while the poor have to fix everything with their hard-earned money, so that the rich can spend their scalped bucks on overpriced fish eggs.

What you say is the opposite of what worked for Iceland......Iceland did the cuts, Iceland followed through with their austerity plan....look at it now. Iceland turned it around very quickly and is doing very well.... Austerity worked.

Look at Greece, they did what you suggest. They increased spending, they spent all the way past 100% of GDP....and now people are setting themselves on fire in banks. Increasing spending did not work for Greece or create any growth....Here are some excerpts from the suicide note from a Greek who hung himself in public this morning..

His anguished suicide note, which identified him only by the name Alexandros, said Greece could be saved only with a leader like former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher.

He wrote that he always worked hard but had become a businessman late in life and had got himself into debt.

"I hope my grandchildren will never be born in Greece because from now on it won't be populated by Greeks any more," he wrote, according to the police sources.

"At least they will know a foreign language as Greek will be abolished by then unless there is a politician with balls, like Thatcher's, to fix both us and the state," he wrote.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/05/3 ... IP20120530

Why did your theory fail in Greece, and why did the opposite of your theory work in Iceland?

[Neoteny]

Aside from being the most intellectually disingenuous post I've ever seen, that was a good post. I mean, I prefer to get my economics from, you know, economists (there are one or two decent ones) rather than dead electricians. But what else should I expect from someone that thinks an appeal to emotion counts as an argument?

Oh, yeah, outright lies.

Lie #1: Iceland's recovery is due to cuts and austerity.

It's not. Iceland's recovery has much more to do with two factors, both related to not being in the EU: the first is sovereign control of its currency. The state actively encouraged devaluation of its currency, inflation, and domestic purchasing, which also had the effect of making exports more competitive. The austerity associated with the piddly IMF bailout (which is miniscule compared to the Greek bailouts, and the debt Iceland was facing) amounted to beaurocratic housekeeping and, notably, higher taxes. It was also delayed a bit to minimize its negative impact. This is combined with increased spending on welfare and other programs to help the hardest hit of the population, including mortgage-owners which were based on foreign currency.

The second important factor in Iceland was that the government took over the bloated banks and then allowed them to fail. This cannot happen in the EU because the nations fear a domino effect in the Euro zone and elsewhere when foreign creditors are out of their investment. Iceland said "f*ck em, shoulda known better than to trust a bank to be responsible with money." That's how capitalism actually works, particularly in a smaller country where the impact on other countries is minimal.

Lie #2 Greece acted by MMT standards

Not at all. They seemed to have forgotten how to act during a strong economy. Real world perspectives require adjustments, instead of ALWAYS CUT or some such. You spend out of a recession, and make it up while you are in good shape.

Implicit lie #3 That it is remotely fair to compare the two situations.

Iceland is not a member of the EU. Greece is. Iceland was not coerced into absurdity by the big business, anti-third world, and likely rapist IMF. Iceland's politicians failed to regulate banks, which amassed uncontrollable debt. Greek politicians failed to control themselves. Iceland followed Keyensian-derived strategies. Greece did whatever the f*ck they wanted.

Keep it real, son.

[Phatscotty]

Iceland cut, Greece spent. Iceland recovered, Greece vaporized.

keepin it trill

[Lootifer]

Iceland cut, Greece spent. Iceland recovered, Greece vaporized.

keepin it trill

Good to see you are reasonable in your debating technique

(he refuted your points, you just trundled on over his...)

[Neoteny]

Iceland cut, Greece spent. Iceland recovered, Greece vaporized.

keepin it trill

Shameless.

Iceland is going through tough cuts now that the economy has stabilized and rebounded. They made it through by giving the middle finger to your class warfare economics, which is hobbling Iceland and Portugal, and might finish what the last decade of Greek politicians started.

But you don't give a shit about that, so long as your ideology of business worship is protected.

[Phatscotty]

Iceland cut, Greece spent. Iceland recovered, Greece vaporized.

keepin it trill

Good to see you are reasonable in your debating technique

(he refuted your points, you just trundled on over his...)

It's not debate. Just stating the truth simply. It's not my fault if they can't handle the truth and will always blame someone and something else. Just keepin it trill

I don't care about the excuses.

[Neoteny]

The troll hath spoken. And he did so with his usual blinders on, with a hard-on for repressing personal freedom.

[Lootifer]

Iceland cut, Greece spent. Iceland recovered, Greece vaporized.

keepin it trill

Good to see you are reasonable in your debating technique

(he refuted your points, you just trundled on over his...)

It's not debate. Just stating the truth simply. It's not my fault if they can't handle the truth and will always blame someone and something else. Just keepin it trill

I don't care about the excuses. Release the troll if you must

Oh man, your initial pre-edit post was way more report-worthy.

The trolling is delicate in here compared to your obvious baiting before.

[Phatscotty]

Iceland cut, Greece spent. Iceland recovered, Greece vaporized.

keepin it trill

Good to see you are reasonable in your debating technique

(he refuted your points, you just trundled on over his...)

It's not debate. Just stating the truth simply. It's not my fault if they can't handle the truth and will always blame someone and something else. Just keepin it trill

I don't care about the excuses. Release the troll if you must

Oh man, your initial pre-edit post was way more report-worthy.

The trolling is delicate in here compared to your obvious baiting before.

You reported my post? wtf? I did not make any "points" to refute. I stated a fact, beyond refute. Iceland suffered the largest meltdown in world history

Relative to the size of its economy, Iceland’s banking collapse is the largest suffered by any country in economic history.[1]

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2012_Icelandic_financial_crisis

He said spending was the only way out of a recession, and he said that cutting spending doesn't work to end a recession. Iceland chose the cutting path, Iceland completed it's austerity program and got out of recession very rapidly. I just posted evidence that he was wrong, at least in Iceland's case. It doesn't really matter what he says in counterpoint....it does not change the fact I stated.

There is no debate needed to recognize a fact.

[Lootifer]

In the war against [snip] I will use whatever tools I can.

I dont want to get banned so ill let you decide what i snipped.

[Phatscotty]

In the war against [snip] I will use whatever tools I can.

I dont want to get banned so ill let you decide what i snipped.

What you snipped is the fact the Iceland beat the worst recession in history, and in record time....because they cut rather than spent. And I'm not sure this forum is a place for you to wage your "war"...

I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. Why you make it your business to get into someone elses conversation?

btw, spurious reports can also get you in trouble....

[Neoteny]

Yeah, loot. What Scotty said is irrefutable. Did you read the suicide note?

[comic boy]

How can you doubt the man who has repeatedly told us that Ron Paul would be president

[Neoteny]

Hell, he was pretty confident Ronny would just get the 'Pub nomination.