LINUX v. Windows

[nietzsche]

which distro did you use as a linux beginner? which one do you use now?

@ any linux user in this thread

I've tried many distros over the years, I've been always around communist hippies that like free things, but only this time I'm staying, this time I'm very pleased with it.

I'm using Linux Mint and it's the one that convinced me, it's based on Ubuntu.

In the past I used slackware, red hat, a little bit of mandrake, ubuntu some years ago, and a couple of others.

[BigBallinStalin]

Multitasking:

When I was in windows, I remember that at times I wanted to do something, like create an image or change the tags of mp3s or something, and i would decide against it because I would have to open 3 or 4 apps besides the ones i was already using, and it would be a mess to minimize and all that shit.

In linux you can use workspaces, and ever since I'm in linux I do much more stuff than when I was in Windows because of that, I change workspaces and there, everything organized all the time. And it helps too it that I can just look for an app for doing something and I always find someone: just a few minutes ago i grew tired of taking a screenshot (tho the screenshot feature in gnome is way more advanced that in windows) and then selecting from it what i wanted in gimp, so I thought there must be a tool like snipping tool, so i googled, and surely shutter exists! installed easily from the software manager list and it turns out is waay more advanced that snipping tool

Windows can't help it if your brain is puny, thus incapable of handling such "complex" tasks.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

[BigBallinStalin]

Ubuntu was my first distro and I still use it on my desktop. The earlier versions I tried (10.04 and 11.04) weren't that great, especially 11.04 as Unity was still really buggy in that version - 10.04 was nice but I didn't like that it came with Firefox 3 and there was no easy way to update to Firefox 4 or 5 at the time - I wanted the tab groups because I have tons of tabs open most times, so I sort of only used it sporadically and did most of stuff in windows still - but when ubuntu 12.04 came out I was like "dang, this is the shiznit right here" and I haven't gone back to windows ever since. It just simply offers everything I need from an OS.

Currently I also have lubuntu on my old laptop - the thing that was so slow with xp that it was pretty much unusable, now runs smoothly. Imagine that. The only problem is I can't get it to connect with my dsl modem but that's probably a hardware issue (it was the same on xp), probably network card is broken or some shit.

As for other distros, I've heard good things about mint & fedora - they're the ones I'd try if I had a spare computer that wasn't an old piece of crap. Lubuntu is perfect for an old computer though, it's lightweight and runs very fast but still has a graphical interface and everything you expect from a modern OS - also it's great for laptops as the power consumption is very small.

Agreed, but allowing the users to swap keyboard layouts was difficult. There was no easy program available for lubuntu to do this.

I had a lot of issues with certain headset-microphones. Installing pulseaudio pavucontrol and then swapping to Gnome ALSA couldn't resolve the issue.


Overall, I was extremely pleased with the flexibility and ability to control these computers with Ubuntu and lubuntu.

For my own computer, I don't want to switch from XP because of all the hardware issues. If I was to make a new computer, then I'd design it with linux in mind. I was extremely impressed, and I know that if I spent some time learning how to use linux more efficiently, I'd save myself from long-term frustration with windows.

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

[natty dread]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

[BigBallinStalin]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

It's just one of those issues where I have to spend 10 minutes to 6 hours resolving with a slim chance of being unable to find a solution at the moment.

Like I said, it's worth it in the long-run, but not in the short.

[nietzsche]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

Do you mean you don't understand the linux directory system?

You can get used to it, in fact, with these new linux distributions you don't even needed that much like in the past, all you need to know is were stuff is in your home directory.

And if you indeed mean the actual application, the Windows Explorer, well it's quite buggy, and it's very powerful because it's in fact MS attempt to create a shell, it includes shell, file management, internet browsing and possibly some alchemy.

Yeah I can remember having some trouble getting used to how thing's are organized in linux directories, but having started in MSDOS I knew a bit about moving between directories in command line. I do remember that I sort of memorized what each directory was in the past, but forgot, such is my memory. And now I don't even need it, I've only been to /etc to manually install java 7. All I'm worried about is space, I have a ssd and I have a dual boot, so I need to get rid of my windows partition.

(disclaimer, I'm not that old, I started in MSDOS because I started really young)

[maxfaraday]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

I think he means how files of one program are scattered in several folders (etc, usr, home, bin...)

[natty dread]

I do remember that I sort of memorized what each directory was in the past, but forgot, such is my memory.

When in doubt, wikipedia it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_directory_structure

Directory Description
/ the slash / character alone denotes the root of the virtual filesystem tree.

/bin

stands for "binaries" and contains certain fundamental utilities, such as ls or cp, needed by all users.

/sbin

stands for "system (or "superuser") binaries" and contains fundamental utilities, such as init, usually needed to start, maintain and recover the system.

/etc

contains configuration files and system databases.

/dev

stands for "devices". Contains file representations of peripheral devices.

/dev/null

also known as the "bit bucket" or "black hole", this pseudo-device discards all contents written to it, and is typically used to pipe away unwanted data.

/dev/random

this pseudo-device returns pseudorandom numbers (subject to the limitations of random number generators in computing) when read from. It uses system noise to generate random numbers and blocks if not enough entropy in the noise is available. Random is commonly used by programs such as SSH that absolutely need cryptographically strong random data to generate an encryption key.

/dev/urandom

similar to /dev/random, except it always returns (cryptographically less strong) pseudorandom numbers, even if there is not enough entropy in the system noise available.

/dev/zero

An endless supply of null's (0x00). Useful for "zeroing" a disk drive (i.e. dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/... bs=64k)

/home

contains the home directories for the users.

/mnt

contains filesystem mount points.

/lib

contains system libraries.

/root

the home directory for the superuser root.

/tmp

a place for temporary files. Many Unices clear this directory upon start up.

/usr

originally the directory holding user home directories, its use has changed, and it now holds executables, libraries, and shared resources that are not system critical, like the X Window System, KDE, Perl, etc. (The name "Unix System Resources" is a post hoc backronym[citation needed].) However, on some Unix systems, some user accounts may still have a home directory that is a direct subdirectory of /usr, such as the default as in Minix.

/usr/bin

this directory stores all binary programs distributed with the operating system not residing in /bin, /sbin or (rarely) /etc.

/usr/include

stores the development headers used throughout the system.

/usr/lib

stores the required libraries for executables within /usr or elsewhere.

/usr/local

resembles /usr, except that its subdirectories are used for additions not part of the operating system distribution, such as custom programs or files from a BSD Ports collection. Usually has subdirectories such as /usr/local/lib or /usr/local/bin.

/var

a short for "variable." A place for files that may change often.

/var/log

contains system log files.

/var/mail

the place where all the incoming mails are stored. The user can access his/her own mail only, unless he/she has admin rights.

/var/spool

spool directory; contains print jobs, mail spools and other queued tasks.

/var/tmp

A place for temporary files preserved between system reboots.

/proc

contains all processing data (process information about a running operating system).

/opt

contains add-on software.

/media

default mount point for removable devices.

/srv

server data (data for services provided by system).

/boot

contains all the important files which are required for successful booting process.

/sys

contains information related to hardware.

[BigBallinStalin]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

I think he means how files of one program are scattered in several folders (etc, usr, home, bin...)

Yeah, that. That drives me crazy. I call it the "Fog of Linux."

[BigBallinStalin]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

Do you mean you don't understand the linux directory system?

You can get used to it, in fact, with these new linux distributions you don't even needed that much like in the past, all you need to know is were stuff is in your home directory.

And if you indeed mean the actual application, the Windows Explorer, well it's quite buggy, and it's very powerful because it's in fact MS attempt to create a shell, it includes shell, file management, internet browsing and possibly some alchemy.

Yeah I can remember having some trouble getting used to how thing's are organized in linux directories, but having started in MSDOS I knew a bit about moving between directories in command line. I do remember that I sort of memorized what each directory was in the past, but forgot, such is my memory. And now I don't even need it, I've only been to /etc to manually install java 7. All I'm worried about is space, I have a ssd and I have a dual boot, so I need to get rid of my windows partition.

(disclaimer, I'm not that old, I started in MSDOS because I started really young)

I remember the MSDOS days. They sucked. Typing in multiple commands instead of simply cutting, tabbing to, and pasting folders and files takes much longer.

To answer the question, I don't really care what the program is called, as long as I can organize files and folders in the same manner. As long as I can fully manipulate one directory, which has all my personal folders and files, then eventually I wouldn't care about what's happening in the Fog of Linux.

[natty dread]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

I think he means how files of one program are scattered in several folders (etc, usr, home, bin...)

Yeah, that. That drives me crazy. I call it the "Fog of Linux."

It's pretty much the same in windows though. You have the main folder in program files, then there's all sorts of folders in documents & settings, application data, and then there's the registry entries (in xp at least) which you could consider another "place" where an application stores information... and then there's the dll files.

The only difference I can see is that linux directory structure has shorter names for directories that aren't maybe as instantly obvious as the windows directories, but imo that's actually a good thing - makes them easier to remember and easier to switch directories when you're using the command line.

It's pretty simple actually - the main binaries & other program data is in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin (yeah, that division is a bit stupid I admit, there seems to be no clear consensus for what uses what) and the user-specific settings etc. are in your home directory under a .name directory, and /etc usually has general configuration files... and any shared libraries are in /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib, because other programs may want to use them so it makes more sense for them to be separate from the bin directory.

[AndyDufresne]

Must resist the Linux proselytizing...


--Andy

[BigBallinStalin]

Preach, brother, preach.

[nietzsche]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

I think he means how files of one program are scattered in several folders (etc, usr, home, bin...)

As natty said, (damn I agree with natty), so do Windows programs.

The big advantage in Linux tho, is that there is a LOT of documentation, for everything, for every level. The man pages, but google is easier. Seriously everything is documented, if you need to know where certain file is you can find about it in 10 seconds, along with info on the file, sintaxis if it is a conf file... etc.

If you need a place to put your data, everything from documents to media to porn, you can always trust another partition, and mount it automatically or with a double click on the desktop. I always have my DATA partition, which I use from linux or win, never erase it so I can install and uninstall windows/linux without problem.

[maxfaraday]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

I think he means how files of one program are scattered in several folders (etc, usr, home, bin...)

As natty said, (damn I agree with natty), so do Windows programs.

The big advantage in Linux tho, is that there is a LOT of documentation, for everything, for every level. The man pages, but google is easier. Seriously everything is documented, if you need to know where certain file is you can find about it in 10 seconds, along with info on the file, sintaxis if it is a conf file... etc.

If you need a place to put your data, everything from documents to media to porn, you can always trust another partition, and mount it automatically or with a double click on the desktop. I always have my DATA partition, which I use from linux or win, never erase it so I can install and uninstall windows/linux without problem.

I wasn't disagreeing with natty, I was just telling him that he misunderstood BBS's post.
I said it before, linux is the best, there's no need to argue about that.

[nietzsche]

One complaint: I really enjoy Windows Explorer. I like visualizing and modifying HD space through this style... I don't like my programs to lump things in different folders and "organize" it for me, because they often fail at 100% completing that task (iTunes comes to mind). Using Terminal/shell commands takes too long too.

What do you mean? What program organizes things for you? I think the file manager in ubuntu works pretty much the same as windows explorer. And if you don't like a file manager, you can always change it...

I think he means how files of one program are scattered in several folders (etc, usr, home, bin...)

As natty said, (damn I agree with natty), so do Windows programs.

The big advantage in Linux tho, is that there is a LOT of documentation, for everything, for every level. The man pages, but google is easier. Seriously everything is documented, if you need to know where certain file is you can find about it in 10 seconds, along with info on the file, sintaxis if it is a conf file... etc.

If you need a place to put your data, everything from documents to media to porn, you can always trust another partition, and mount it automatically or with a double click on the desktop. I always have my DATA partition, which I use from linux or win, never erase it so I can install and uninstall windows/linux without problem.

I wasn't disagreeing with natty, I was just telling him that he misunderstood BBS's post.
I said it before, linux is the best, there's no need to argue about that.

I know what you meant, I was addressing BBS concern. I didn't understand exactly what he was talking at first, until you said it.

Let's you and me and natty and Haggis dance in a circle chanting Linux is the best.

[natty dread]

(damn I agree with natty)

cats and dogs are living together in peace!

I always have my DATA partition, which I use from linux or win,

If you use the same partition in windows, you have to use ntfs... which is crappy... and a security risk...

I trust my encrypted /home partition more. Even if the cops confiscate my computer they'll never be able to extract the evidence from my home folders...

[Haggis_McMutton]

[Army of GOD]

hm, so I was having "laptop problems", installed Linux and my problems went away.

I'm only like 10 minutes into using it and I'm annoyed that (1) I can't find how to start terminal (2) how to get the god damn side bar on the bottom because I'm too used to the Windows taskbar and some other stuff but it already seems much better than Windows.

I guess I'll eventually figure out what was screwing with my Windows 7, but I don't feel the need to do it immediately. I just needed to fix my laptop so I can watch the upcoming Broncos season (you know, because f*ck New York and the Jets).

[natty dread]

hm, so I was having "laptop problems", installed Linux and my problems went away.

I'm only like 10 minutes into using it and I'm annoyed that (1) I can't find how to start terminal (2) how to get the god damn side bar on the bottom because I'm too used to the Windows taskbar and some other stuff but it already seems much better than Windows.

I guess I'll eventually figure out what was screwing with my Windows 7, but I don't feel the need to do it immediately. I just needed to fix my laptop so I can watch the upcoming Broncos season (you know, because f*ck New York and the Jets).

Congrats for shedding the shackles of M$ slavery.

Which distro, which desktop environment? In GNOME and Unity at least, ctrl-alt-T should open terminal. If you're using Unity, then you're SOL with getting the sidebar to the bottom. Unity is kind of weird, it's definitely not for everyone, and takes getting used to. I kind of like it but lots of people hate it. All I can say in that situation is to install another desktop environment, if you want something that's similar to what you're used to in windows you could try XFCE or LXDE.

[nietzsche]

And you can have a different desktop environment without having to reinstall the whole system. You just get the packages and log out and log on in the different desktop enviroment. I love gnome3 + cinnamon though it's a work in progress.

http://lifehacker.com/5762081/wtf-deskt ... -explained

In linux mint 13 switching between installed desktop environments is very easy, you just change it at the log on stage. To install it you just use the Software Manager, I don't know how exactly it's done in Ubuntu but I bet it's as easy as in Mint.

[natty dread]

In linux mint 13 switching between installed desktop environments is very easy, you just change it at the log on stage. To install it you just use the Software Manager, I don't know how exactly it's done in Ubuntu but I bet it's as easy as in Mint.

Changing DE:s is the same on any system that has a standards-compliant X display manager. The XDM is what starts up the X session, ie. where you type in your password and select the user and DE.

Ubuntu has "Ubuntu Software Center" instead of software manager, but it's the same otherwise.

[Army of GOD]

hm, so I was having "laptop problems", installed Linux and my problems went away.

I'm only like 10 minutes into using it and I'm annoyed that (1) I can't find how to start terminal (2) how to get the god damn side bar on the bottom because I'm too used to the Windows taskbar and some other stuff but it already seems much better than Windows.

I guess I'll eventually figure out what was screwing with my Windows 7, but I don't feel the need to do it immediately. I just needed to fix my laptop so I can watch the upcoming Broncos season (you know, because f*ck New York and the Jets).

Congrats for shedding the shackles of M$ slavery.

Which distro, which desktop environment? In GNOME and Unity at least, ctrl-alt-T should open terminal. If you're using Unity, then you're SOL with getting the sidebar to the bottom. Unity is kind of weird, it's definitely not for everyone, and takes getting used to. I kind of like it but lots of people hate it. All I can say in that situation is to install another desktop environment, if you want something that's similar to what you're used to in windows you could try XFCE or LXDE.

Ubuntu. I was able to find terminal pretty easy and quickly threw that on the sidebar (or whatever you call it).

Installed wine and then Trackmania. I already like it more than Windows...

[natty dread]

Next, you'll need to learn how to unpack tarballs and compile programs from source. It's kind of like an initiation ritual, after that you'll be one of us forever. Then you'll grow a neckbeard and spend all your time preaching about open source on internet forums.

[john9blue]

don't do it aog! you must not succumb to the dark side! stay here with us. we have a beautiful sexy glossy gui... and an easy to navigate file system... and games, LOTS of games. don't you like games? here, play some pinball.