Matrix Mafia Endgame, Town and Survivors win!

[jak111]

wow, jak, thats two essays. in a row. wow.

Speaking of which, perhaps I should do my two essay's due for English :/.. lol.

[vodean]

neb is in exams. they end tomorrow
he should start being more active then.

Well that's fine, he's currently a dead VT in this game anyways, so he's eligible to replace if he wants to.

haha lol i meant leehar. sorry

[thechuck51]

im going to vote hippo first, since he actually defended clever, but chuck, wouldnt you say that leading the lynch of a mafia member would make me pretty town?

i am voting purely based on the fact clever claimed non zion VT and turned up scum. It has nothing to do with your actual gameplay. If jak's reveal provides an actual case I will pursue that but until it is proved otherwise I am suspicous of any claim that is non zion but VT.

There is one role that jak didn't include in his analysis. Since he didn't include, one must conclude that he already knows who has that role (assuming he didn't target me). This role is hider. I have hid behind hippo every night. I can assume the mafia is aware of that, as there is no other reason (except busdriver) to target a VT. Luckily, hippo is town, since if I hide behind a mafia, I die.

And I am Trinity... Also I'm the town tracker, so whoever roleblocked me last night can you please refrain from doing so again? I can say Hippo either is VT or didn't do anything N1, so that also shoots down Vodean's HIPPO IS SCUM argument, because I've seen otherwise.

So did jak clear hippo because he tracked him or because doom hid behind him without dying? If it is the latter who did jak track night 1?

Now that I've vented that, I suppose I could respond to the theories.


I had two theories in my mind when I first read the recruit. First, Smith kills PR's and recruits VT's. Second, Smith only gets a recruit every other two nights. It seems both theories have been coined already, good.

Mouse is a character from Matrix 1. He is part of the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar, Morpheus' ship, but he dies in the first film. Edoc'sil pretty much got everything right about him, he was freed from the matrix so not originally from Zion. Otherwise he couldn't possibly enter the matrix and get shot while Morpheus gets captured. If all Nebuchadnezzar crew had a power role, him being a VT wouldn't make sense, but he is not very significant in the film. Remember the part where they're in a building and Neo gets that deja-vu? Brick walls turn up where there should be mirrors? That scene.

Basically, he does in no way support the VT theory that thechuck coined and can therefore be considered an odd-one-out.

So you share your theory on the SK that is complete conjecture but my theory that is supported by the roles of all 6 people that have died so far is garbage because of how you interpret the importance of mouse's contribution to the movie? Tank was a pretty big role in the movie since if it wasn;t for him killing sypher trinity and neo would have died in the matrix and he was a VT so I see know reason to assume that roles are based on each characters significance in the movies and I see nothing that contradicts the zion=VT non zion=PR theory.

[DoomYoshi]

Good catch, the chuck. I tried to dissuade jak from targeting the hippo but failed. So he is now doubly cleared. He is not mafia and he is not agent smith.

[edocsil]

lol jak. Your an idiot if you did what I think took is implying. Did you really track hippo?

[betiko]

lol jak. Your an idiot if you did what I think took is implying. Did you really track hippo?

Dude he tracked him n2 not last night! My guess is sg7 or mob. I hope so; they didn't show up yet and they are my major suspects.

[aage]

lol jak. Your an idiot if you did what I think took is implying. Did you really track hippo?

Dude he tracked him n2 not last night! My guess is sg7 or mob. I hope so; they didn't show up yet and they are my major suspects.

Wasn't he blocked during night 2...?

Basically, he does in no way support the VT theory that thechuck coined and can therefore be considered an odd-one-out.

So you share your theory on the SK that is complete conjecture but my theory that is supported by the roles of all 6 people that have died so far is garbage because of how you interpret the importance of mouse's contribution to the movie? Tank was a pretty big role in the movie since if it wasn;t for him killing sypher trinity and neo would have died in the matrix and he was a VT so I see know reason to assume that roles are based on each characters significance in the movies and I see nothing that contradicts the zion=VT non zion=PR theory.

No, I'm saying that Vodean's Mouse - VT claim doesn't fit in. Doesn't necessarily mean the theory is wrong, Vodean could be lying. I believe that was your point, right? Sorry if I formulated it vaguely.


So I saw Jak posted... I guess I'll have to respond again, haven't I?

See, now this is the problem. I state something and everyone's panties get in a knot. If you want to do something while we wait then go ahead. Just because Aage is getting all worked up about doesn't mean we need to pay him much attention, he can complain all he wants to. Just because I'm waiting for someone's response doesn't mean the entire game needs to be on stand still.. you guys MAKE it on stand still by bull shitting around it.

My question would be: how are you surprised? Any theory we build can be shot down because you targeted someone critical, and the theory can be built way more easily if you just shared your results right away... And they're STILL not here. Are you now withholding the track because you're angry at me or something? This is pathetic.

Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:40 pm

He has until tonight to come forward with any information he may of gotten and WHY Ghost.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:36 am

still waiting

When were you planning on saying anything? You've kept town in the dark for over fifteen hours now.

As far as Edoc's post goes, I think Aage just blew that out of the water (the positive things you had to say about him that is). Because really Aage? You still don't believe Doom's a Hider? What do you want us to say? That he's a cop, tracker, watcher, bulletproof, bodyguard, role blocker, vig, busdriver, AND lover/mason all in one? This is a mafia game mate, Saf can't just give people a thousand different powers.

Are you strawmanning me? Did I ask for superpowers? No. But being a hider isn't exactly the power I would expect from The Chosen One. Especially now that he is suggesting gambling his life on playing makeshift-cop.

As for the withholding information, again, I'm not, you can complain all you want to Aage, I'm giving him a chance to come clean about it. If that doesn't fit your wants, too bad bud. What information do you have that you withhold from us? if you're not a VT you must have something, no? So stop being a hypocrite. Just because we're exposed PR's does not mean we must give out on demand, we pick and choose what we do, we're just more confirmed than most people. So don't give me the "But we know what you are, it's no use hiding information" Well, I think it is considering 2 PR's that are lovers and masoned together have survived this long. You get what we give you. Beggars can't be choosers.

On what grounds do you accuse me of withholding PR information? Did I ever claim? Did my predecessors ever claim? As far as I know they haven't, and I haven't, and I wasn't planning on it. Odd argument.

I know your intentions, doesn't mean I'll give you what you want Aage, for all we know you're smith or mafia. I'm not saying that you ARE either of them but you could be.

Regardless of alignment you should be handing out results. You seem to think you've caught Smith, so let's cut the crap. He seems to have been the biggest threat to town so far, so what else would you want from day 4?

You think you're always right and that we should bend to your will.

And I've only had twenty pages of game time Nice to see such quick conclusions. Especially in the light of...

no one can really change my mind

Thanks for clearing that up.

OMGUS, as I've come to be taught here on CC only can be used for people who vote someone for voting them. I learn things from others as I play, yes. But you really don't see how your attitude right now is a bossy one? You demand things that you have been told will be given at a later time in the exact same day. What more do you want? A pacifier? All jokes aside though, you do need to take a breather. Clear your head a bit.

OMGUS in this case just means using exactly the same argument as return accusation.


Sorry if this discussion is a drag, it seems both Jak and I don't want to drop it. On the other hand, he's probably not going to admit to the accusation so I'll knock it off for now. Once we have those tracker results, that is, which is what the whole thing practically is about.

[Leehar]

neb is in exams. they end tomorrow
he should start being more active then.

Well that's fine, he's currently a dead VT in this game anyways, so he's eligible to replace if he wants to.

haha lol i meant leehar. sorry

lol, what he said, sorry for dropping out on everyone. I just fell a bit behind after studying for exams, and then catching up seemed too much of a chore at the rate the game was seemingly moving.
I can't guarantee I'll catch up the last 40 pages, but I do pledge to stay active henceforth

[vodean]

[quote="aage" Sorry if this discussion is a drag, it seems both Jak and I don't want to drop it. On the other hand, he's probably not going to admit to the accusation so I'll knock it off for now. Once we have those tracker results, that is, which is what the whole thing practically is about.[/quote]
jak, please do not reply to that. we will not think less of you. aage, stop.

you guys are being so mature!!!

[betiko]

yep please, jak and aage, you guys are anoying and making us read tons of stuff for nothing.

regarding the flavour on vodean: i don't think it's necesairly relevant. I don't think that we can be certain that vodean could be a fake vt for the whole zion born thing. It could make sense, but it's not a guarantee. she already claimed so you're asking for a lynch chuck, and i would keep that lynch as a last lead in case the other leads turn bogus. Also I agree; you could pretend a fight between mafias to make one look more townish (done that in the past too), but I doubt you would sacrifice the mafia ninja. Even though their fight could've gone either way. But I think that vodean is very likely who she says she is (also vodean, can you once and for all cofirm you are female so everyone stops with the he/she thing?).

Regarding Jak: so he's holding information, and what? he is going to reveal it anyway. what if 2 people visited ghostly for example?? he could get double info. i totally approve his play.
regarding doom/neo: when i played night before christmas mafia modded by saf, jack, the main character from the movie was only a mason, nothing else!! So I do beleive neo could be a hider+mason+lover, it does make sense with saf's game. Also, a hider+a tracker masoned can come up with pretty interesting plans at night, I think it's a powerful combination.

I think all these discutions so far are all town vs town. No one thinks that SG7 has been extremely fake at the end of day 3? always acting overly surprised about stuff he obviously already knew; defending a lot clever, attacking me for going against him and clever, thinking clever's case on me was a good one..
Then came mob with his very strange posts! not the first acusations, but his answer to me... He realized his acusations were flawed and that clever was a lost cause, so he just started getting all nervous... I know mob when he's like that. I've been scum with him and he was acting nervous like that when someone brought some very embarassing acusations... Actually I was scum with SG7 and mob in that game!

Anyway, I'm less sure about mob, but SG7 is as scummy as a person that didn t claim can be. I'll just wait for jak's traker case to know who it was and what he was doing. I'm starting to wonder if it isn't aage who visited ghostly because he's overly defensive with the masons.

[edocsil]

yep please, jak and aage, you guys are anoying and making us read tons of stuff for nothing.

Regarding Jak: so he's holding information, and what? he is going to reveal it anyway. what if 2 people visited ghostly for example?? he could get double info. i totally approve his play.
regarding doom/neo: when i played night before christmas mafia modded by saf, jack, the main character from the movie was only a mason, nothing else!! So I do beleive neo could be a hider+mason+lover, it does make sense with saf's game. Also, a hider+a tracker masoned can come up with pretty interesting plans at night, I think it's a powerful combination.

His falsehoods are delaying the town in a gross fashion. Fine, they can hide stuff about their roles to keep themselves alive, but you cannot say "ohi I founda scummy!" and then just sit on it. Several of us do not trust Jak to understand the issues associated with his actions, and the day really cannot move on until his information is brought forth. It's enough of a delay of the game that if it isn't brought forth by this evening I am going to request mod action, as Jak has no right to waste a whole week of our time so he can feel important.

[vodean]

betiko, yes. i agree with pretty much every word in that post.

jak, please hurry up.

SG7, MoB, hippo, please explain.

Now, lets evaluate the cases, and then go from there.(These are the cases as i see them, purely from memory)

show: case on hippo

show: case on edoc

show: case on chuck

show: case on everywhere

show: case on MoB

show: case on SG7

show: case on betiko

show: case on ghostly

show: case on aage

show: case on vodean

I cannot confirm that i am female. please call me she.

[aage]

24 hours and still nothing from Jak. How about I will stop bashing your gameplay and you just do what you said you were going to do? I know there are many nicer way to say the things I have said, but I didn't employ those methods because I wanted to make a point: you're keeping town on a leash and I don't like it. Don't take it personal, please.

I think all these discutions so far are all town vs town. No one thinks that SG7 has been extremely fake at the end of day 3? always acting overly surprised about stuff he obviously already knew; defending a lot clever, attacking me for going against him and clever, thinking clever's case on me was a good one..

Yes. But without claimed-role information, I can't say anything about that.

I'm starting to wonder if it isn't aage who visited ghostly because he's overly defensive with the masons.

Yeah, I was the one visiting Ghostly and that's why I've asked him to share his information five times now... Even if he did track me and I had visited Ghostly, I think Jak would've mentioned it.

[Djfireside]

Through your cases I have more to note on a few

show: case on MoB

At the end of the Day MoB seemed very flustered and frankly I had no idea what the hell they were doing and I dont think they did either. They were tossing things around left and right and each time trying to protect clever. There are more but figured these two would illustrate that.

my predictions

clever - town
vode - town

everywhere - scum

strong fos - betiko

care to elaborate what you say about us 4? what makes you think that everywhere being priest has more chances of being scum than town? the flavour doesn't fit mafia. For me it's a role related to the oracle, therefore most likely beneficial to town.
we have 4 vts and i want to get rid of one. VT is the number 1 fakeclaim for scum, and clever is definitely for me the scummiest.

fastposted

- Oh my dear god please pretend I never posted this post. I will do I big post today, its long overdue. If safari posts scene/lynch, then I will post everything First thing tomorrow morning, or Lynch me.

Immediate thoughts on Clever. I think he is town. I think vode is the safer lynch (in contrast to my previous post that I said ignore.) Vode has the only character claimed VT that can go into the matrix. If that is not enough for everyone, I completely understand lynching clever, I think the information we get from his lynch is definitely worthwhile to keep us moving forward on the game.

Well you said that you would come with your thoughts on the matter but have disappeared again now that clever turned the opposite. You said you would come forward with response to why you were so adament against clever and various other topics or we should lynch you and disappear. FOS MoB for pretty much everything.

is it possible that dazza comes in here and claims with me? he wouldnt have to know what i claimed.

Looked at all of dazzas posts while he was in the game - he never ever made a comment on the meta of the characters. Never agreed or disagreed with the idea that VTs were all zion-born. Just something to note.... I would feel like we could have something if dazza seemed to agree that VTs were all zion.

As far as I could tell Dazza didnt state this, if they did that would have been a great find and I will go back and keep looking for it cause that would give a good tell but havent found it yet.

show: case on SG7

On the clever wagon he was full on defending clever the whole way through and got noted by a few people and garnished 4 votes for it. He was spoon feeding him his responses (Page 87) on rewording it to help him seem clean. I was letting him play out since they were friends but just seemed way to conveinent.

alright, I'm starting to get a town vibe from vodean, and am second guessing my "blind stab in the dark", and will
UNVOTE VOTE S7C what say you about this? why do you want me to claim?
Also S7C if you are NOT a VT you should tell us who you really are before we lynch you.
(warning: if anyone votes S7C before he responds you will immediately be labeled as scum)

-SG7 ( )

Jumped on safely and would state that if anyone else did it there would problems. Then quickly remove their vote off shortly after.

Same occured with the Everywhere test using S7C, jumped on for the Claim test and when Jonty and aage pushed it to lynch came back with

UNVOTE

Awwww! I came too late! Anyway, nice case S7C. I'll look more into it tomorrow in D4.

-SG7 ( )

So was itching to get back off quickly which was only 37 minutes after the test move. Also has disappeared with the current state.

I was split on clever and SG7 for their points in the previous day and while there are a few good points to go by I cant ignore SG7's actions and their joking scum claim on 88 stating mafia GF lol.

Either way still doesnt sit well with me especially now that clever flipped Scum.

Vote SG7


FP aage

[DoomYoshi]

I am pretty sure I know who jak tracked. Let's list off who you think jak would track and who you think would target ghostly as a thought exercise. By tonight, if jak hasn't revealed I will give the info.

[aage]

I am pretty sure I know who jak tracked. Let's list off who you think jak would track and who you think would target ghostly as a thought exercise. By tonight, if jak hasn't revealed I will give the info.

I suspect he tracked pmc, based on your own suspicions towards him. But there's easily five others on that list.

[jonty125]

I am pretty sure I know who jak tracked. Let's list off who you think jak would track and who you think would target ghostly as a thought exercise. By tonight, if jak hasn't revealed I will give the info.

I suspect he tracked pmc, based on your own suspicions towards him. But there's easily five others on that list.

Well, we can only speculate. I agree with DJ's case on SG7 and have already FOS'd him, but I'm waiting for jak/doom.

[vodean]

im all for putting a little more pressure on either chuck, SG7, everywhere (that would be for a lynch), or MoB. i agree that we should wait for jak though

[betiko]

I'm all about voting SG7 again, was waiting for jak, but what the hell, can always move to his new case if it's really worth it.
back to my usual suspect!

vote SG7

[thehippo8]

@ Vodean, why did you missso many names off your little essays (which by the way I really liked)? I was mulling over them andsaw DJ's post and realised you'd missed DJ and heaps of others. Unsure whether thatmeans you think they arenot worth commenting on or just havn't put your mind to them. Anyway, I will treat you as cleared given current consensus so ...unvote.

In answer to your specific question re clever. I got sucked in. As a consequence I've been sulking. But yes I was anti his lynch because I believed he was town. Boy was I wrong!!

I agree we need to start focussing on those who havenot claimed (actually that's been a refrain from me for ages) so ... vote sg7

[edocsil]

I am pretty sure I know who jak tracked. Let's list off who you think jak would track and who you think would target ghostly as a thought exercise. By tonight, if jak hasn't revealed I will give the info.

I suspect he tracked pmc, based on your own suspicions towards him. But there's easily five others on that list.

I would suspect you or me honestly, but I know that isn't the case for me at least.

[vodean]

@ Vodean, why did you missso many names off your little essays (which by the way I really liked)? I was mulling over them andsaw DJ's post and realised you'd missed DJ and heaps of others. Unsure whether thatmeans you think they arenot worth commenting on or just havn't put your mind to them. Anyway, I will treat you as cleared given current consensus so ...unvote.

In answer to your specific question re clever. I got sucked in. As a consequence I've been sulking. But yes I was anti his lynch because I believed he was town. Boy was I wrong!!

I agree we need to start focussing on those who havenot claimed (actually that's been a refrain from me for ages) so ... vote sg7

well, i didnt look at ANY other pages. i thought of DJ, but I think hes fairly town atm. maybe later. im only pointing out the people who have been scummy enough for me to remember (and me and aage). it seems like the consensus is on SG, and im happy with that, but do want to hear from jak before we get any more claims.

[Iron Butterfly]

My top two list include MOB and SG7.

MOB for a variety of reasons seems to play like this every game I have been in. He will eventually pop in with some terrific excuse and make a long post by playing catch up. Sarcasm intended.

SG7 is my vote for now unless Jak, sometime this year, decides to post his investigation results and they reveal something we can work with.

VOTE SG7

[jak111]

yep please, jak and aage, you guys are anoying and making us read tons of stuff for nothing.

Regarding Jak: so he's holding information, and what? he is going to reveal it anyway. what if 2 people visited ghostly for example?? he could get double info. i totally approve his play.
regarding doom/neo: when i played night before christmas mafia modded by saf, jack, the main character from the movie was only a mason, nothing else!! So I do beleive neo could be a hider+mason+lover, it does make sense with saf's game. Also, a hider+a tracker masoned can come up with pretty interesting plans at night, I think it's a powerful combination.

His falsehoods are delaying the town in a gross fashion. Fine, they can hide stuff about their roles to keep themselves alive, but you cannot say "ohi I founda scummy!" and then just sit on it. Several of us do not trust Jak to understand the issues associated with his actions, and the day really cannot move on until his information is brought forth. It's enough of a delay of the game that if it isn't brought forth by this evening I am going to request mod action, as Jak has no right to waste a whole week of our time so he can feel important.

Really, mod action Edoc? You're literally.. ~Keeps myself from making it personal~... The only people who hold the game up are people who say "Let's not do anything until he gives us what I want". I know Saf doesn't agree with me in most games I play with him, but I seriously doubt he'd modkill/force me into a single thing. He's a decent player and a good mod so far from what I have seen. Stop taking things so personally, because so far you have not contributed to anything today besides complain about me? Am I really that important in your life? I feel flattered.. now back off and cool down.

Anyway.. you guys are so impatient. Like seriously. My dad ended up in the hospital last night before the time I planned on posting, then I had to go to bed, then I had school. Chill.

To drag this on further because Aage and Edoc seem to think I love doing that, so I will do it a bit more intentionally just to satisfy them I do so enjoy making those two happy and giving them what they wish for

The.. person.. who.. I.. saw.. visit.. GhostlySG7 was..

^ Can you find it in the text?



Okay.. I'm done being a douche for the day. But I am seriously tired of getting crap from Edoc and Aage. I was out on a walk last night, visiting some friends. There I saw him under the street lamp heading toward Ghostly's house. It took me a minute to figure out who he was or why he was going there, but from his shape I could tell that it was shield. Then I asked myself, why? Why would he want to visit Ghostly? So today, coming before everyone I decided to announce that someone stopped by Ghostly's house, giving him a chance to come forward. Which the man decided not to, giving my word but being fashionably late, I gave his name to the public.

Sorry guys, I had to make that into a paragraph. Edoc's accusations are starting to get onto my emotional side. So, I'd like to take one second to say, cool it before unless you want the me everyone hates.. :/

Fasposted by IB

[vodean]

well...shit. we were all going there anyway.
vote SG7
can we get a vote count?