Mad Men Mafia - Day 2 (6/9) Town Wins!

[Yomiel]

Also, you haven't actually posted anything to defend myself from, other than saying I'm trying to rush the lynch, which you are all aware I ALWAYS do, and which I have already explained. This just further proves what I've been saying.

[/]

@yomiel, you are correct in saying our personal lives are our own business and should not be brought up.
@dim. you do realize as you post to bring up the past, you incite the situation further, right?

I try to be the good, every day I strive to be kind and responsible, and I am certainly not going to allow a game to make me lose my cool...

But this all is getting rather pathetic, if anyone thinks this is how the mod wants the game to be, or that this is in any way to play any game, I honestly am sorry, mafia is no longer the game for me.

The mod is working hard to help, so I will attempt one more time to save this game from insanity.

I hope everyone tries this, it will honestly help you become a better mafia player,
1. Unvote
2. reread
3. Say in plain english, without mentioning each others personality flaws, past, etc etc. that has nothing to do with alignment, who do you think is mafia, and why they are, in your opinion, more likely to be mafia than town.
4. read everyone's opinions carefully.
5.vote with discretion
6. if you are voted, calmly logically argue your counterpoint to their suspicion, or claim so as not to hold up the game.

end of discussion, everyone please try this just this once so we can get back on track and start anew, or go ahead and lynch or replace me.

fastposted a couple of times,
yomiel, do you think that name claiming and avoiding a mislynch is bad for the town?

[Yomiel]

I think that Vodean and Dim are Mafia. Vodean has just struck me as suspicious from the beginning, and you saw it too, since you also voted for him. Dim keeps trying to get me to claim, while acting like there's some great case against me that I need to defend myself against, when there really isn't.

I think claiming in any way is reckless, especially early in a game. Even a character name can give hints to the Mafia.

[DiM]

@dim. you do realize as you post to bring up the past, you incite the situation further, right?

i have to bring it up as an argument on my request for yomiel's replacement.

also yomiel seems to have no trouble talking about past occurrences even if they're nothing more than insane drivel.
like how we have a vow to keep him from playing mafia here
he also mentions past games here, here, here and plenty of other posts.

3. Say in plain english, without mentioning each others personality flaws, past, etc etc. that has nothing to do with alignment, who do you think is mafia, and why they are, in your opinion, more likely to be mafia than town.

i already explained in plain english why i vote for yomiel and asked him several times to give a proper response to this:

I'm not being targeted because of suspicion. Lynching someone for things like that is just being a poor sport.

actually you ARE targeted because of suspicion. and the suspicious thing was that you weren't trying to put pressure on people to force a claim or cause them to slip and say something incriminating. you were rushing to get a lynch no matter what. and this is a scum tell. however when people started voting for you, you immediately got all defensive and claimed being bullied. another scumtell. and if that's not all you're also refusing to claim. yet another scumtell.
i'd say the suspicion is pretty big right now. so do us all a favour and at least try to clear up some of that suspicion.

frankly i would not be surprised to see him turn out to be town. he already screwed up at least one game by acting like this and getting himself lynched. hence my firm belief he's nothing but a troll bent on screwing up games.

[Yomiel]

Several members, including edo and pancake, have actually publicly admitted that they are out to stop me from playing Mafia here. I also have the PMs still, I think.

Second, you have no business bringing up such personal stuff, especially when you don't even have your facts straight.

Third, it is other people who keep bringing up past games, like you just did.

/, I posted my suspects and my reasons again, quite clearly. Apparently, Dim is not willing to do the same, but instead prefers to continue pretending that he gave reasons that I have not defended myself against.

[DiM]

I think that Vodean and Dim are Mafia. Vodean has just struck me as suspicious from the beginning, and you saw it too, since you also voted for him. Dim keeps trying to get me to claim, while acting like there's some great case against me that I need to defend myself against, when there really isn't.

I think claiming in any way is reckless, especially early in a game. Even a character name can give hints to the Mafia.

LOLOLOLOL.

how about campin killer? you no longer think he's mafia? you said he's the biggest instigator here.
how about everywhere? he also voted for you. in fact he was the first to vote you.
what of LSU? he's not even in the game and yet you seem to think he's trolling you.

also i'd like to point everybody to the ncis game D1 where he accused 4 or 5 people of being "clearly mafia" just because they voted for him.

[/]

I think claiming in any way is reckless, especially early in a game. Even a character name can give hints to the Mafia.

perhaps, but is it not arguably worse to have not prevented ones own lynch as town?
not claiming, and being lynched results in
1.town losing a vote
2.town losing one day
3.town perhaps losing a power role
4. the mafia learning the role anyways because the mod makes a death scene.

claiming to prevent a lynch results in
1.mafia learning a role possibly

it is clear which is superior obectively, if you do not claim even if it is the only way to prevent your own lynch, I will assume you are mafia, even though you are only second or third in my suspicions.

[Yomiel]

Trying to force someone to claim by saying they will be killed otherwise is folly. The person will likely lie, regardless of who they are, because telling the truth would be stupid. For example, if I were a Cop and said I was, surviving the lynch would hardly matter, since the Mafia would just kill me anyway, and the Town would lose an important role. And this game does not have a lot of them.

And what about Dim? He not only ignored your request, but he keeps instigating and lying. Now he's falsely claiming I accused people of being Mafia just for voting me, and it's clear he is purposely trying to get me lynched and confuse everyone.

[/]

In this setup such logic is flawed, if you were to claim cop, there is a possiblity there is a doc, so the mafia would logically avoid you.
Even if you were theoreticaly killed tonight by mafia for claiming, it is still a superior move to being lynched, as it saves todays lynch to be used against scum, and forces scum to waste one kill, putting town ahead two steps.

also on this site town almost always tells the truth, as it is superior to allowing scum to obfuscate the situation.

the case on dim may be valid, I will re-examine when I have time.

[DiM]

Third, it is other people who keep bringing up past games, like you just did.

it's called meta.

/, I posted my suspects and my reasons again, quite clearly.

you did now, did you? quite clearly you say?
let's analyse a bit.

I think that Vodean and Dim are Mafia. Vodean has just struck me as suspicious from the beginning, and you saw it too, since you also voted for him.

so vodean was suspicious right from the start, right?

and yet your first vote was on campin.

then once everywhere voted for you, you forgot all about campin and voted for everywhere.
then once vodean had 2 joke votes and i made a joke post about how he's mafia in 50% of his games you immediately switched your vote to him and asked me to vote for him too and in your very next post you say vodean is at L-1 so somebody should whack him.
not even the slightest of intentions to let him claim or put up a defence. you simply wanted a quick kill at all costs.

for this kind of attitude i considered you for voting. when campin and vodean started putting pressure on you, you started calling both of them instigators, and accused them of making things personal. and it wasn't even the first time. you started accusing people of being instigators as early as page 3. then after vodean saw you're not being cooperative he voted for you and asked for a defence. obviously you offered no defence, blamed people of not playing properly and you said you have no respect for them.

then there are at least 10-15 posts where you refuse to claim or offer any defence and you keep complaining of being bullied.

fastposted 3 times.

[DiM]

And what about Dim? He not only ignored your request,

didn't ignore. see my post above.

but he keeps instigating and lying.

really? lying? when you make accusations it's customary to provide some sort of proof. again refer to my post above where i gave a lot of links to posts proving my points.

Now he's falsely claiming I accused people of being Mafia just for voting me,

wow, really? falsely? you know i can always get the links from the ncis mafia game but then you'd accuse me again of bringing other games into discussion.

and it's clear he is purposely trying to get me lynched and confuse everyone.

yeah. i'm trying to get you lynched. oh wait when i voted for you you already had 4 votes against you from everywhere, campin vodean and /. i guess they were trying to vote you for prom king not for lynching.
not to mention i quickly unvoted when i realised i was putting you at L-1 to avoid your lynch.
then i asked for your replacement twice and said i DON'T want a lynch but rather a replacement.
then i put you at L-1 again and urged you for a defence while i'm online so i can quickly unvote if your claim proved to be satisfying.

so your so called case against me is nothing but a sad joke.

[Yomiel]

/, I must go with what I believe, and that leads to me not claiming. I believe that is best.

The case for Dim is more than valid. He refused to post the stuff you asked, then only acknowledged my post doing so to start trying to make it seem weird that I didn't label more people as Mafia. He insults me and falsely claims that I think people are Mafia for voting me, which is not true and has been proven not true repeatedly. And you can tell from his posts he's not really reading what's going on.

Like, he complains that my first vote was for Campin, even though that was originally clearly a joke vote, which is something the people here insist on. Now I'm not allowed to do that? Then he complains about my vote for everywhere, which was stated to be because it seemed everywhere was claiming I had not voted, which was clearly not true and because her reasoning was weird. But in the end, I decided to go with Vodean and give her the benefit of the doubt. Even you noticed him skimming through the votes, though that was easy enough to dismiss. Then he also pretends I never defended myself, which I did. And he just keeps on lying and twisting facts. It's all beyond suspicious.

[DiM]

yomiel, you are being increasingly absurd. please take /'s advice and do this:

6. if you are voted, calmly logically argue your counterpoint to their suspicion, or claim so as not to hold up the game.


youmiel, / clearly explained you the pros and cons of claiming and she makes perfect sense. you need to say something in your defence to prevent a lynch. if you're town this is the only way to help the town. "going with your hunch" or with "what you believe" makes no logical sense to any of us and does not constitute proper defence.

anyway i have presented my case in a very objective and clear manner. presented plenty of proof and relevant info and i think that's all i can do.
if yomiel wants to continue this circus then i shall not participate any more because i feel this image perfectly describes what's going on here.

my vote on yomiel stays until i see him actually doing something logical to try and stay in the game.

if he's scum, then lynching him it great for us.
if he's town, then he's been given plenty of chances to defend and he's been given enough logical reasoning as to why he should try and avoid the lynch and yet he fails to listen to that advice.
if he's the jester, then he wins and that's that end of story.

[/]

/, I must go with what I believe, and that leads to me not claiming. I believe that is best.

Is there any direct flaw in my reasoning? If there is I would be glad to discuss it, otherwise one can only assume you are hiding your role for the benefit of the mafia, and you will be lynched, wasting a role, a day, and allowing the mafia an extra kill if we are wrong.

[Yomiel]

Against you, it's pointless. You're just not listening.

/ said her point of view, and I gave mine. I think that I made a good argument, whether you agree or not.

Dim, you're just not playing. You certainly weren't willing to listen to / yourself, and no matter what I do or say, you make false accusations and claim that I'm the one not playing. You haven't clearly presented anything.


/ how can you not see how suspicious Dim is acting and how flawed what he is saying is? Also, I told you exactly why it would be foolish to claim. Revealing my role only helps the Mafia, as would revealing my name. There is no reason for you to by trying to get me lynched when there is not case at all against me-it's a pointless lynch. Vodean had the same amount of votes, yet no one asked him to claim. I was only asked because it was known I wouldn't, because I never do so early in games. You're just playing right into Dim's hand now.

[Yomiel]

If I claim, the Mafia will kill me. There is no doubt. If I don't, they have to keep me alive, which is better for the Town.

[Yomiel]

And keep in mind that three of the four votes against me are personal, not for actual reasons related to the game. If this was a normal-sized game, it wouldn't be an issue. But since it's smaller, even having a handful of people so against me from the start pretty much guarantees the game will not be fair.

[/]

If I claim, the Mafia will kill me. There is no doubt. If I don't, they have to keep me alive, which is better for the Town.

If you have already said that much, the mafia now already knows they must kill you, it is pointless to hide now. Please say your role name, I will take full responsibility for the consequences.

[Yomiel]

No, I'd bet they wouldn't. Because they can still push me for a lynch.

And it's easy for you to say you're taking the consequences, but I'm the one who dies and the Town loses an ally. And how do we even know you're not Mafia?

There's just no case against me right now. The most you all have is me rushing the lynch, which anyone can see I've done in EVERY game I've played, including ones where I was revealed to be Town.

[ShaggyDan]

Don't have time to properly read. Swamped with work. Will post hopefully tomorrow if not the day after. Sorry.

[DiM]

this is too good to stay away. it's like chocolate. you know it makes you fat but you keep eating it

/ said her point of view, and I gave mine. I think that I made a good argument, whether you agree or not.

the trouble is / isn't buying your "good" argument either. in fact nobody is.

Dim, you're just not playing. You certainly weren't willing to listen to / yourself, and no matter what I do or say, you make false accusations and claim that I'm the one not playing. You haven't clearly presented anything.

false acusations? lies? you have any proof for that? because in case you missed it i made a post with a lot of proof. read it right here

If I claim, the Mafia will kill me. There is no doubt.

even if you claim and mafia kills you tonight it's still better than you being lynched today. i thought / already explained how this works. reread it here. her reasoning makes perfect sense.

If I don't, they have to keep me alive, which is better for the Town.

they HAVE to keep you alive? do you mind giving us more info?

And keep in mind that three of the four votes against me are personal, not for actual reasons related to the game.

i think the votes so far are: campin, vodean everywhere and me.
i'm assuming you consider campin vodean and my vote as personal. right?
then i guess it's quite a coincidence that you're also thinking me and vodean are mafia right? i mean what are the odds of the people who supposedly have a grudge against you also getting mafia roles.
what about /'s vote? when she voted for you was that personal or was she mafia?

even having a handful of people so against me from the start pretty much guarantees the game will not be fair.

yeah because we made a vow to prevent you from playing here, right? we're some sort of secret society who's only purpose is to lynch you. btw if you really believe this then why did you join? also do we have a secret handshake? i like secret handshakes.

[Yomiel]

Assuming the Day is not over by then, and it probably will be.@_@ We only have six active players right now, three of whom are always against me and were from before the game even started.

See? Dim is proving what I'm saying over and over again. He has clearly not read a thing I've said.

[/]

No, I'd bet they wouldn't. Because they can still push me for a lynch.

And it's easy for you to say you're taking the consequences, but I'm the one who dies and the Town loses an ally. And how do we even know you're not Mafia?

There's just no case against me right now. The most you all have is me rushing the lynch, which anyone can see I've done in EVERY game I've played, including ones where I was revealed to be Town.

Fine then, reasonable enough logic. If the 3 you claim are voting you without cause respond with a valid argument as per my instructions, I will bring this up again, if you do not claim then with a valid case against you at lynch minus one, I will hammer.

[Yomiel]

viewtopic.php?f=213&t=173973&start=60

You can see Campin and Vodean's votes on that page. Vodean's makes no sense, as I had no reason to defend myself at that point, with only one serious vote and no real comment with it. I've already said why the whole rush claim is not valid, since you can look at any thread, including ones where I've been Town, and see me trying to move things along.

[DiM]

I've already said why the whole rush claim is not valid, since you can look at any thread, including ones where I've been Town, and see me trying to move things along.

actually the rush accusation is perfectly valid. it's one thing to rush votes and force a claim and it's another thing to ask for a lynch and not give the accused a chance to claim.

when you voted for vodean putting him at L-2 you quickly asked me to vote for him and put him at L-1 instead of asking vodean for a claim like any normal non-scummy player would do.

then you immediately asked count belisle to cast another vote and push the voting to L-1.

and when campin questioned your actions you clearly said you want a lynch thus proving you aren't interested in vodean claiming and thus giving town any relevant info. all you wanted was to see somebody killed.

this is clearly how mafia would act.