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Re: Evolution

Postby Symmetry on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:21 pm

Frigidus wrote:
Symmetry wrote:it's not as if Biologists have just been rolling out PhDs saying nothing more than "I'm 100% behind Chuck".


Oh shit, now I'm going to have to entirely rewrite my thesis.


Yup, my thesis got turned down as apparently "What Darwin said" didn't count as original research. On a fun note, I did read a thesis in my actual field from one of the American Bible colleges. It was shorter than my Masters thesis, and one of the footnotes read "Insert references later".

Dude passed and is now a doctor in my field.
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Re: Evolution

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:23 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Symmetry wrote:it's not as if Biologists have just been rolling out PhDs saying nothing more than "I'm 100% behind Chuck".


Oh shit, now I'm going to have to entirely rewrite my thesis.


Yup, my thesis got turned down as apparently "What Darwin said" didn't count as original research. On a fun note, I did read a thesis in my actual field from one of the American Bible colleges. It was shorter than my Masters thesis, and one of the footnotes read "Insert references later".

Dude passed and is now a doctor in my field.

If I try really hard, I can probably come up with a name..... ;)
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Re: Evolution

Postby Gillipig on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:26 pm

I'll post in here soon. My post will be long and well thought through. I haven't had time to make such a post yet. I didn't think you guys would be spamming up this thread so quickly. But rest assure, I'll do my best to deal with all the silly arguments proposed against evolution and maybe try to change a few minds (assuming there are actually open minded people who don't "believe" in evolution). This is after all my favorite subject.
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Re: Evolution

Postby chang50 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:29 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
yang guize wrote:LOL. if you do not understand something then it must be god? this is excellent. you use the same pattern of thought as the ancients who thought that dragons live in the sky and under the sea, causing rain and waves and similar. i do not understand rain, so maybe it is a big dragon getting angry. maybe evolution is controlled by the dragons as well. LOL




So, if you don't understand God, it must be evolution? :-k


I'm not going to bother to "destroy" evolution. It was pretty much done in a thread I started years ago.


So show us the Nobel prize or comprable scientific acclaim that followed this comprehensive destruction.. because I must have missed it.
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Re: Evolution

Postby Symmetry on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:32 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Symmetry wrote:it's not as if Biologists have just been rolling out PhDs saying nothing more than "I'm 100% behind Chuck".


Oh shit, now I'm going to have to entirely rewrite my thesis.


Yup, my thesis got turned down as apparently "What Darwin said" didn't count as original research. On a fun note, I did read a thesis in my actual field from one of the American Bible colleges. It was shorter than my Masters thesis, and one of the footnotes read "Insert references later".

Dude passed and is now a doctor in my field.

If I try really hard, I can probably come up with a name..... ;)


I'll save you time, it was Baylor University- so I was perhaps wrong in calling it a Bible college. Still, terrible terrible standards.
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Re: Evolution

Postby kentington on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:03 pm

Gillipig wrote:I'll post in here soon. My post will be long and well thought through. I haven't had time to make such a post yet. I didn't think you guys would be spamming up this thread so quickly. But rest assure, I'll do my best to deal with all the silly arguments proposed against evolution and maybe try to change a few minds (assuming there are actually open minded people who don't "believe" in evolution). This is after all my favorite subject.


If you are actually trying to change minds, then it probably wont be the result of calling people's arguments silly. Even if they are silly.
But if you want to argue it and have the people who aren't open minded sling insults back and forth with you go for it.

I am seriously interested in the subject and I don't believe in evolution. I don't know if I am open minded, probably not, but I will see what I can do.
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Re: Evolution

Postby comic boy on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:03 pm

kentington wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I'll post in here soon. My post will be long and well thought through. I haven't had time to make such a post yet. I didn't think you guys would be spamming up this thread so quickly. But rest assure, I'll do my best to deal with all the silly arguments proposed against evolution and maybe try to change a few minds (assuming there are actually open minded people who don't "believe" in evolution). This is after all my favorite subject.


If you are actually trying to change minds, then it probably wont be the result of calling people's arguments silly. Even if they are silly.
But if you want to argue it and have the people who aren't open minded sling insults back and forth with you go for it.

I am seriously interested in the subject and I don't believe in evolution. I don't know if I am open minded, probably not, but I will see what I can do.


I mean no disrespect to your views but may I ask why you disbelieve evolution given that no comparable scientific theory has been advanced . I assume that you percieve it to be contrary to your religious convictions but that in itself puzzles me , the concept of Inteligent Design surely neatly sidesteps any conflict.
If I am wrong in my assumption then please forgive me but if no religious dogma is involved then total disbelief in evolution seems even odder , doubts I understand but total rejection ?
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Re: Evolution

Postby puppydog85 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:50 pm

I am quite aware of the history of theory of evolution. I stated that I was not well read in "Darwinian" evolution. Obviously, meaning that I know that something other than Darwin exists in evolutionary thought. It seems that we agree that Darwin was wrong.

As to my little rant about punctuated equilibrium. Well, as I understand it you are saying that there is proof in the fossil/gene record for this? As I understood it there was no such proof.

No, I do not get my information from Y.E. people. I mostly listen to debates for information on evolutionary thought. I will say though that I largely eschew evidential discussions about this. Most physical evidence can and will be molded by one's underlying presuppositions. It is in that area that I usually engage. But I thought it would be fun to take a break and try this out.

Comic Boy, I thought this whole discussion is to discuss whether a comparable theory has been advanced. Not to dismiss it out of hand.
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Re: Evolution

Postby jimboston on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:52 pm

Gillipig wrote:I'll post in here soon. My post will be long and well thought through. I haven't had time to make such a post yet. I didn't think you guys would be spamming up this thread so quickly. But rest assure, I'll do my best to deal with all the silly arguments proposed against evolution and maybe try to change a few minds (assuming there are actually open minded people who don't "believe" in evolution). This is after all my favorite subject.


I don't want a well though out response... designed to change those minds that are still open to being changed.

I want you to "destroy" people.

That's what you promised in the OP... and I am still waiting!
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Re: Evolution

Postby jay_a2j on Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:42 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:Jay! how ya been?
I've missed you.
I disagree with just about every opinion you've ever expressed, but that doesn't stop me thinking you're a fine guy.
And, uh, no, I don't think you managed to "destroy" evolution. You know you convinced nobody whatsoever.





Hi! I've been busy as of late watching the USA own London. :D

Actually, just realized I haven't been to CC lately so I dropped by to brows the goings on of Off Topics or whatever they call it these days. ;)
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Re: Evolution

Postby jay_a2j on Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:I'm not going to bother to "destroy" evolution. It was pretty much done in a thread I started years ago.

Hi jay. Fun to hear from you again, but I can see you are up to your old tricks.

You proved absolutely nothing, except that you did not really understand evolution. You "disproved" false ideas some young earth people try to claim is evolution, not real evolutionary theory.



Hi Player. My blood pressure has dropped to normal levels since my departure from CC. ;) No old tricks here. Nothing but the facts ma'am, nothing but the facts.
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Re: Evolution

Postby jay_a2j on Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:50 pm

chang50 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
yang guize wrote:LOL. if you do not understand something then it must be god? this is excellent. you use the same pattern of thought as the ancients who thought that dragons live in the sky and under the sea, causing rain and waves and similar. i do not understand rain, so maybe it is a big dragon getting angry. maybe evolution is controlled by the dragons as well. LOL




So, if you don't understand God, it must be evolution? :-k


I'm not going to bother to "destroy" evolution. It was pretty much done in a thread I started years ago.


So show us the Nobel prize or comprable scientific acclaim that followed this comprehensive destruction.. because I must have missed it.



It's a loooooong thread but here it is.
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Re: Evolution

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:52 pm

I think it's silly for anyone to assume they have all the answers.
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Re: Evolution

Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:55 pm

Let's get surreal.
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Re: Evolution

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:31 am

Neoteny wrote:Pow!


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Re: Evolution

Postby Maugena on Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:49 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Symmetry wrote:it's not as if Biologists have just been rolling out PhDs saying nothing more than "I'm 100% behind Chuck".


Oh shit, now I'm going to have to entirely rewrite my thesis.

Since when does an economist publish in evolutionary science? :?

I'm sorry, are you saying Frigidus is an economist?

jay_a2j wrote:
chang50 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
yang guize wrote:LOL. if you do not understand something then it must be god? this is excellent. you use the same pattern of thought as the ancients who thought that dragons live in the sky and under the sea, causing rain and waves and similar. i do not understand rain, so maybe it is a big dragon getting angry. maybe evolution is controlled by the dragons as well. LOL




So, if you don't understand God, it must be evolution? :-k


I'm not going to bother to "destroy" evolution. It was pretty much done in a thread I started years ago.


So show us the Nobel prize or comprable scientific acclaim that followed this comprehensive destruction.. because I must have missed it.



It's a loooooong thread but here it is.

jay_a2j wrote:First off put aside any bias that you may have...weather it be religious or anti-religious.

Now science has said, Life cannot come from non-life. Which is common sense... a rock will never reproduce since it is not living.

Then you trace back all life to its orgin...the very first living thing.

Where did it come from?

The ONLY answer is someting or someone has always existed. And that someone or something must have the power to create (or reproduce).

There must be a God.

Science also dictates evolution could never have happened (but lets save that for a later thread).

Lolgic dictates you created a reason for being. You just made "God".

Also, SCIENCE dictates that matter cannot be created nor destroyed.
Well what does that mean, Maugena?
It means, my dear friend, that matter has always been around and it always will be around. It did not poof into existence and it will not poof out of existence.

Furthermore, let me redirect you to what Frigidus had posted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2% ... experiment
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Re: Evolution

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:01 am

puppydog85 wrote:I am quite aware of the history of theory of evolution. I stated that I was not well read in "Darwinian" evolution. Obviously, meaning that I know that something other than Darwin exists in evolutionary thought. It seems that we agree that Darwin was wrong.
NOt quite so fast.
Darwin was not entirely correct, but he was far from entirely wrong, either. Life does change over time, a lot of what he put forward helped us understand greatly how live on Earth came to be, but he was not correct in all his details, in fact got some things we would call pretty big wrong. So have most famous scientists, by-the-way. We remember them for what they got correct, not their errors.
puppydog85 wrote:As to my little rant about punctuated equilibrium. Well, as I understand it you are saying that there is proof in the fossil/gene record for this? As I understood it there was no such proof.
This is the kind of trap statement that a lot of young earthers will throw out. The problem is you have not defined what you call "punctuated equilibrium"... and, just as our definitions of Darwin differ, its quite likely that what science actually considered punctuated equilibrium or how it plays into evolution are not what you believe.

puppydog85 wrote:
No, I do not get my information from Y.E. people. I mostly listen to debates for information on evolutionary thought. I will say though that I largely eschew evidential discussions about this. Most physical evidence can and will be molded by one's underlying presuppositions. It is in that area that I usually engage. But I thought it would be fun to take a break and try this out.
Nope few things are more readily proven than that evolution, chand over time happens. If you refer to specific lines of descent, then there is debate. However, its not so broad that the "physical evidence can and will be molded". That is, in fact what science is about.. getting around our biases. We START with ideas that originate from various sources, including religion, but it only becomes proof when it follows specific rules and guidelines to avoid bias. Science evidence must be able to be seen by all (by all with the training to use the equipment, follow the methodology, etc.)

puppydog85 wrote:Comic Boy, I thought this whole discussion is to discuss whether a comparable theory has been advanced. Not to dismiss it out of hand.

If you have a comparable theory, present it. So far, none has been. Folks like to claim there are other theories. They are all disproven, rely heavily upon either distortions, taking claims out of context, faulty data or plain outright lies. The "king" is the Institute for Creation Research.
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Re: Evolution

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:19 am

Maugena wrote:Lolgic dictates you created a reason for being. You just made "God".

Also, SCIENCE dictates that matter cannot be created nor destroyed.
Well what does that mean, Maugena?
It means, my dear friend, that matter has always been around and it always will be around. It did not poof into existence and it will not poof out of existence.

Furthermore, let me redirect you to what Frigidus had posted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2% ... experiment



Matter that has always existed would not be able to CREATE new matter. Thus, there must be an eternal being that CAN create matter. I didn't "make" God, He made me. :)
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Re: Evolution

Postby puppydog85 on Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:06 pm

That's funny, asking for proof is a trap statement?

You are really playing with terms here. Yes, change over time happens, and perhaps you could call it evolution. But the idea that species will evolve into other species is most certainly not "more readily proven". Consider how the field of evolution changes its ideas and then look at that statement.
I will leave the last answer here up to you as I think I am highjacking this thread. Tomorrow I have off and will try to start a new thread.
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Re: Evolution

Postby GreecePwns on Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:17 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
Maugena wrote:Lolgic dictates you created a reason for being. You just made "God".

Also, SCIENCE dictates that matter cannot be created nor destroyed.
Well what does that mean, Maugena?
It means, my dear friend, that matter has always been around and it always will be around. It did not poof into existence and it will not poof out of existence.

Furthermore, let me redirect you to what Frigidus had posted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2% ... experiment



Matter that has always existed would not be able to CREATE new matter. Thus, there must be an eternal being that CAN create matter. I didn't "make" God, He made me. :)


Keep in mind, everyone, that this is an unfalisifiable claim, just like atheism is.

Also keep in mind, that beliefs derived from unfalisifiable claims are also unfalsifiable.
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Re: Evolution

Postby Maugena on Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:09 pm

jay_a2j wrote:Matter that has always existed would not be able to CREATE new matter.

Why do you think any matter was created?
That is an assumption taken from absolutely nowhere.
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Re: Evolution

Postby kentington on Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:21 pm

comic boy wrote:
kentington wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I'll post in here soon. My post will be long and well thought through. I haven't had time to make such a post yet. I didn't think you guys would be spamming up this thread so quickly. But rest assure, I'll do my best to deal with all the silly arguments proposed against evolution and maybe try to change a few minds (assuming there are actually open minded people who don't "believe" in evolution). This is after all my favorite subject.


If you are actually trying to change minds, then it probably wont be the result of calling people's arguments silly. Even if they are silly.
But if you want to argue it and have the people who aren't open minded sling insults back and forth with you go for it.

I am seriously interested in the subject and I don't believe in evolution. I don't know if I am open minded, probably not, but I will see what I can do.


I mean no disrespect to your views but may I ask why you disbelieve evolution given that no comparable scientific theory has been advanced . I assume that you percieve it to be contrary to your religious convictions but that in itself puzzles me , the concept of Inteligent Design surely neatly sidesteps any conflict.
If I am wrong in my assumption then please forgive me but if no religious dogma is involved then total disbelief in evolution seems even odder , doubts I understand but total rejection ?


It is contrary to my religious beliefs and logic in a religious sense. Why would God who could create a world, not just create man as it says he did?

Separate from that I have seen a few videos and sites from posts on this site. While they had a lot of good information and were very organized, they still didn't satisfy my doubts. In the video I watched, it was like an hour or two long and I can't remember who posted it, the theory still made assumptions regarding evolution that still left it as a theory. Those assumptions were odd because the same could be said for an intelligent designer.
One specific I believe was the mention of eyeballs.
They said that we must come the same being that had a simple eyeball which is why all of our eyeballs are similar( across species). But the same could be said for intelligent design. It could have been designed in such a way that it was repeatable. I don't remember the exact statements that were made regarding the subject, but to me these assumptions leave a large room for doubt.
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Re: Evolution

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:41 pm

Maugena wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Matter that has always existed would not be able to CREATE new matter.

Why do you think any matter was created?
That is an assumption taken from absolutely nowhere.



Are you implying that all that exists has always existed?
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Re: Evolution

Postby Army of GOD on Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:05 am

ITT: we discuss things that are over our heads
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Re: Evolution

Postby Maugena on Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:22 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Maugena wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Matter that has always existed would not be able to CREATE new matter.

Why do you think any matter was created?
That is an assumption taken from absolutely nowhere.



Are you implying that all that exists has always existed?

Implied. I said it before you quoted me the first time. >_>;

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