Shooting at Sikh temple

[saxitoxin]

The U.S.' highest ranking Sikh politician has an "A" grade from the NRA.

http://www.nikkihaley.com/about-nikki/

COINCIDENCE?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!???!!?
















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PhatScotty, write below this line ...


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[BigBallinStalin]

Odd how 100 FBI personal weren't there in less then an hour.

What'dya mean?


I mean, I could list several explanations, but you're being really vague here.

Where else was there a shooting that 100 FBI agents showed up?

At the batman killings, I presume. What's your point?

[Phatscotty]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wisconsin-temple-hero-cop-brian-murphy-shot-times/story?id=16939854#.UCBa5qP-2uJ

"[Murphy] received eight or nine gunshot wounds, to extremities and also to the cheek area and the neck," Edwards said. "He was in very close proximity to the shooter. When he arrived, he came upon someone who was injured, and he was going to assist that individual when the shooter came around him, close to his squad, and hit him at a close distance."

The officer was wearing a bullet proof vest, Edwards said.

After gunman Wade Page was shot and killed by other officers, they moved to rescue Murphy. But when they located him, Murphy indicated that rather than help him they should enter the temple to assist any other victims.

"He had been shot nine times -- one of them very serious in the neck area -- and he waved them off and told them to go into the temple to assist those in there," Edwards said.

Aye, and one of the victims stumbled to a local home where the guy gave him first aid on his lawn. This probably wouldn't happen in Japan, and I don't think it's as common as it used to be in the UK.

Interesting story on your fascinating point... A few months ago, some guy in the UK drowned in one of those knee high ponds. After a bit people started to notice the body floating face down, but instead of walking into the water and helping him out, they pulled out their camera phones and started shooting. And then, when the fire department got there, a fireman was about to walk out into the middle of the kiddie pond and his sargeant stopped him and told him to wait for the ladder to extend out to the victim, because that was standard regulation for a drowning. In the end he was flaoting in the water for 25 minutes before he was "rescued"..... I though this might amplify your point

[yang guize]

so here's a question:

what would have happened if this shooting was in the uk? would the nasty english have shot 1000 sikhs, or would they have been to indifferent to their fellow compatriots to even bother raising the weapon?

[yang guize]

if we use 'number of mass sikh shootings in 2012' as our barometer (usa - 1, uk - 0) i would have to agree with the 'indifferent' explanation

[Woodruff]

I find it interesting that so few people even know what the religion is, yet still seem to feel free to condemn it.

And I think the intelligent people of our country, particularly those who are members of other churches, need to be sure to offer support.

The problem is that they resemble Muslims in dress and general appearance, and so have become hate crime targets since 9/11 by people too ignorant to understand or recognize the differences.

[Woodruff]

One of the finer points of the US, and I know I come across as a critic of American culture most of the time, is its sense of community, especially in times of tragedy.

LOL - where do you get that from?

Mainly from living in the US, as compared to living in the UK and Japan. I don't pretend to know many other countries well, but that was definitely one of the greatest things about American culture. Community is certainly something the US does well. Occasionally, sure, it pushes people out, but not so much in my experience.

Just out of curiosity, were you living inside this?



If that's the case, I guess it's understandable how one might anecdotally reach this conclusion, though perhaps not scientifically accurate.

Did you want scientific accuracy? Why?

And why are you trolling this thread?

It's all he does. How are you surprised by this?

[yang guize]

they resemble Muslims in dress and general appearance

LOL

spoken like a man who has been to at least 4 indian restaurants and knows just what he is talking about thank you very much

[Woodruff]

they resemble Muslims in dress and general appearance

LOL
spoken like a man who has been to at least 4 indian restaurants and knows just what he is talking about thank you very much

Spoken like a man who has spent time dealing with both the Muslim and Sikh communities here in my city, actually. The Sikh's I speak with state this as the likely reason themselves as to why it is happening so frequently.

[yang guize]

and you're sure you knew which community was which? remember: kebab is muslim, curry is sikh

[notyou2]

In the spring a man that tended a flock of geese at a large apartment complex in the eastern US (Connecticut or NY I think) drowned when one of the geese (swans?) attacked him and his boat rolled. He was watched by numerous people in the buildings, but no one tried to help him.

[Woodruff]

and you're sure you knew which community was which? remember: kebab is muslim, curry is sikh

I am quite certain, yes, although both groups do eat both kebabs and curries.

[Juan_Bottom]

Another hate crime? Mosque burned in Joplin

The shooting at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wis., is the day’s worst example of hateful violence — but it is not, sadly, the only one. Early Monday morning, someone set fire to the Islamic Society of Joplin during Islam’s holy month of Ramadan. The mosque couldn’t be saved, so now there are 50 Muslim families in Joplin, Mo. — the same town devastated by a tornado last May — without a place to worship.

The destruction follows earlier fires, including one on July 4, when someone threw a flaming object onto the mosque’s roof. If it was an attempt at arson, it wasn’t a very good one. There wasn’t much damage, though the miscreant managed to be captured in a security video, and the FBI offered a reward for information on the arson.

Oddly, despite the video evidence and reward, there was never an arrest. Muslims in Joplin probably weren’t surprised: When they opened their mosque and community center in 2007, their sign was torched. That crime, too, remains unsolved.

That’s a lot of open cases in a town as small as Joplin. I do not believe the arsonist acted alone, or in a vacuum. The perpetrator has bragged somewhere, in a bar, at work, at – yes! — church. And while Joplin residents would do well to hold a vigil and take up a collection to help their Muslim neighbors rebuild, the best thing would be to turn this yahoo in.

I am from Joplin, and so I believe in the goodness of people who live there. Last May after a tornado blew a third of Joplin to thunder, people fell all over themselves to come do something – anything – for that broken town. It wasn’t just ex­pats like me, but people with no connection – none – who came to Joplin with shovels, water bottles and recipes for pulled pork. It hurt to be from Joplin, because you couldn’t read the obituaries without feeling a knot unravel. I remember mostly Johnnie Ray Richey. We used to race one another on the playground. He was a sweetheart, and he died trying to save someone at the local Elks Club.

Maybe it’s a hillbilly thing, those knots. We are fiercely private and fiercely independent, and yet the tornado forced on us the goodwill of people we’d never met, and gave us connections we never thought we’d have. We found ourselves standing next to people with whom we never thought we’d share a rope. Because we’re from Joplin, as President Obama said at this year’s high school graduation, we know what it’s like to see the goodness of people – all of them, and not just ones who look, smell and sound like us.

Which makes the most recent news out of Joplin that much more unbearable — but not insurmountable. The good that flowed into Joplin after the tornado is still there. Someone needs to tap into that good, step up and turn this perpetrator in.

[heavycola]

I find it interesting that so few people even know what the religion is, yet still seem to feel free to condemn it.

And I think the intelligent people of our country, particularly those who are members of other churches, need to be sure to offer support.

The problem is that they resemble Muslims in dress and general appearance, and so have become hate crime targets since 9/11 by people too ignorant to understand or recognize the differences.

They don't really, apart from the general brownness.

Blah blah politics gun control blah cold dead fingers etc etc
But really aren't these mass murders basically the price a society as in love with gun ownership as the US (broadly speaking) has to pay? I mean obviously the calls for everyone to be armed all the time in order to reduce the number of gun deaths is spasmoloidically mental, but then it's all a part of the American psyche that most folk over here scratch their heads at anyway.

[PLAYER57832]

But really aren't these mass murders basically the price a society as in love with gun ownership as the US (broadly speaking) has to pay? I mean obviously the calls for everyone to be armed all the time in order to reduce the number of gun deaths is spasmoloidically mental, but then it's all a part of the American psyche that most folk over here scratch their heads at anyway.

I see, so violance only happens in the US?

No, rather it is the fact that we are largely a peaceful nation of respect and laws that makes such events shocking and therefore newsworthy

[heavycola]

But really aren't these mass murders basically the price a society as in love with gun ownership as the US (broadly speaking) has to pay? I mean obviously the calls for everyone to be armed all the time in order to reduce the number of gun deaths is spasmoloidically mental, but then it's all a part of the American psyche that most folk over here scratch their heads at anyway.

I see, so violance only happens in the US?

No, rather it is the fact that we are largely a peaceful nation of respect and laws that makes such events shocking and therefore newsworthy

please don't be misreprezentin'. I love the US, I really do. And sure violence happens everywhere, but i'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that random mass killings happen more frequently in the US than elsewhere. Hell, there have been two in the past month. I'm just asking whether that is part of the price you pay for your constituional right to bear arms. It's not supposed to be perjorative.

[crispybits]

Violence happens in other places too, but in societies where the tools which enable someone to commit murder on this scale and timeframe (e.g. guns) are illegal, the frequency of these events is vastly reduced. The last time we had an event like this in the UK was Raoul Moat in 2010, and the time before that (as far as I can remember) was the Hungerford massacre which must have been in around 1995. Yet I can think of 3-4 examples from the USA just from the last 12-18 months, and that's only the ones that make the news here....

[AndyDufresne]

But really aren't these mass murders basically the price a society as in love with gun ownership as the US (broadly speaking) has to pay? I mean obviously the calls for everyone to be armed all the time in order to reduce the number of gun deaths is spasmoloidically mental, but then it's all a part of the American psyche that most folk over here scratch their heads at anyway.

I see, so violance only happens in the US?

No, rather it is the fact that we are largely a peaceful nation of respect and laws that makes such events shocking and therefore newsworthy

please don't be misreprezentin'. I love the US, I really do. And sure violence happens everywhere, but i'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that random mass killings happen more frequently in the US than elsewhere. Hell, there have been two in the past month. I'm just asking whether that is part of the price you pay for your constituional right to bear arms. It's not supposed to be perjorative.

Perhaps, but I think 'mass killings' is a little vague, I am pretty sure there is quite a bit of domestic terrorism in countries around the world. For instance, check out this wikipedia list of car bombings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_car_bombings

Or even more detailed, "terrorist incidents" by the month in 2011: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... ents,_2011


--Andy

[crispybits]

He said "random mass killings" though, which would rule out killing for a cause and only include nutters with weapons killing indiscrimately for kicks

[AndyDufresne]

He said "random mass killings" though, which would rule out killing for a cause and only include nutters with weapons killing indiscrimately for kicks

Is the Sihk Temple shooting random if the police find his motives were that he targeted them because they were 'Other'? Would that sort of be killing for a purpose?


--Andy

[PLAYER57832]

When the economic times get worse, some people pull together and others look to point fingers at those they can blame... and they virtually NEVER blame those at the top who ultimately always are the real and true cause of the problems.

Much easier to blame illegals or people who look and dress different.. or practice a "strange" religion.

Much harder for some people to be kind to those who are different when they feel they are being threatened.

And that is why it is always critical for the extremists to find targets and to blame. In our society, today, a lot of the far right is more and more beginning to feel it has "permission" to dislike the "other" -- be it homosexual "others", Islamic "others, Illegal "others" or just plain "others"... fill in the blank

[heavycola]

He said "random mass killings" though, which would rule out killing for a cause and only include nutters with weapons killing indiscrimately for kicks

Is the Sihk Temple shooting random if the police find his motives were that he targeted them because they were 'Other'? Would that sort of be killing for a purpose?


--Andy

i should have been more specific - random mass shootings. I'm sure all these crazies have their own reasons, but to open fire on complete strangers is almost random by definition.

Statistically the numbers of people killed in these shootings must be vanishingly small - according to wikipedia there were 31,224 firearm deaths in the US in 2007.
That page also states that the majority of these deaths happen in poor urban areas or are gang-related. There's your 'other'. When nice middle class people watching a movie get shot up, or kids at a high school or college, then it brings it home to that part of the population for whom shooting deaths happen to other people. Suddenly it could happen to anyone, which is scary. That's the price for the the 2nd amendment.

[PLAYER57832]

That's the price for the the 2nd amendment.

Definitely don't want to drag this thread into yet another guns/no guns or "guns cause violance" thread, but this is just plain wrong. Mass actions don't require guns at all.. visit the UK terrorist acts, for example.

BUT.. like I said, there are already plenty of threads on that topic!

[crispybits]

Can you name 3 random (i.e. non-ideological) mass murders committed with a bomb or some other weapon in the recent past?

All mass murder is disgusting, but random nutters killing people they don't know for no other reason than "the voices told me to" seem to favour guns as a weapon of choice.

Edit - I'm not saying guns are to blame either - people kill people - but there is a definite trend and that is worth investigating, especially if you live in a country where a lot of people own one

[PLAYER57832]

Can you name 3 random (i.e. non-ideological) mass murders committed with a bomb or some other weapon in the recent past?

All mass murder is disgusting, but random nutters killing people they don't know for no other reason than "the voices told me to" seem to favour guns as a weapon of choice.

[sigh] moving to another thread....