Psychology Mafia ~ Game Over, Mafia Victory

[safariguy5]

Guys. Piss off on the zimmah hate. He has claimed love. There is no point in asking for more. Once I get through a read tonight, one of you guys pushing the most meta crap about "twisted" love is going to get the vote.

^ Now I think we're getting somewhere. Anything you know that we do not Edoc? So far we've been playing normally and there isn't a bit of hate in this thread (Not to my knowledge), just people playing the game and working with what they got.

But no no, this is great, I feel a slip coming up from someone soon. Feeling nervous? Is pressuring a scum mate starting to weigh in on ya?

(I do realize Zimmah may be serious, but this is Mafia, not a place to decide you're gonna call hate crimes on anyone who suspects you).

Going off THAT note, it's a few of us putting down the fact that you said love HAS to be a pure emotion. That's pretty much where everything is generating from my part. You're trying to say something is pure so you can get off scot free from suspicion. Before Edoc goes around flapping his mouth (Don't you enjoy the detailed commentary?) about how everyone is doing some hate speeches or whatever on a player. All the pressure he's receiving, all the criticism, is mostly coming from what he tried to pull off and claiming that he only can be town.

Change your pov Edoc, you know on a regular day, you'd agree that anyone claiming they are 100% town off of pure flavor spec is scummy as hell. Without investigations or facts, of course we're gonna keep going on what we got so far.

I agree with this sentiment. There's no "twisting" of the love claim. As I said before, there's no clearly defined "town" side and "mafia" side this game. At this point, barring something more substantive, any person who tries to argue flavor spec as the sole basis for clearing them is not going to win town points in my book. This isn't Super Mario Mafia where claiming Mario is just about a 100% clearance. For example, Ambition as an emotion I could easily see as both mafia or town.

But zimmah basically saying that he's not going to play because people disagree with him I think is rather melodramatic way of trying to get pressure off him. And, the vote on jak was mainly because jak is the most aggressive player against him. So playing aggressive is fine, but other people can't play aggressive against you zimmah?

unvote vote zimmah

[edocsil]

Hilarious jak. (well, actually the post did make me chuckle, and for the right reasons too)

By hate I mean rather then actual HATE (ie: being mean) I mean ragging on him and trying to force him to claim more power for sketchy reasons. His actions are well within his established meta as town, and I am VERY concerned as to what his powers may be, and I have several hypothesis as to why his claim may be detrimental to the town. This should be evident to those who think the situation through, both the meta and the issues with claims. I feel that there are scum who suspect things similar to what I do, and are either pushing the case, and/or wagoning after other follow.


Fastposted. Saf, but Love? Shit, any other role I would be with you 110 percent, but not on Love.

[lord voldemort]

Fos all still on zimmah. Seriously. How could you not believe that love is likely to be a town power role. Scum is on this bandwagon. Just don't know which

[safariguy5]

Hilarious jak. (well, actually the post did make me chuckle, and for the right reasons too)

By hate I mean rather then actual HATE (ie: being mean) I mean ragging on him and trying to force him to claim more power for sketchy reasons. His actions are well within his established meta as town, and I am VERY concerned as to what his powers may be, and I have several hypothesis as to why his claim may be detrimental to the town. This should be evident to those who think the situation through, both the meta and the issues with claims. I feel that there are scum who suspect things similar to what I do, and are either pushing the case, and/or wagoning after other follow.


Fastposted. Saf, but Love? Shit, any other role I would be with you 110 percent, but not on Love.

It's a combination of 2 things. One, he's trying to clear himself with flavor only. Second, he pushed a case on you very aggressively based also completely on flavor. I can't remember who it was who provided the investigation (was it Doom?) that said you were unhappy. zimmah then takes that 100% to mean that you're sadness and that you must be scum. Now you're telling us that you're not sadness and you have no idea how that flavor spec was placed on you. At this point, I think that discrepancy needs to be cleared up. If we are not going to pressure zimmah to a claim, then either you or the investigator needs to clear up this apparent contradiction. I'm willing to revisit this heavy flavor spec that zimmah is relying on another day in favor of figuring out who's lying here. Understand that this is not any indication that I believe zimmah is town, but more an indication now that we may have something more interesting to pursue. Your continued defense of zimmah also can be interpreted as a scumbuddying a townie to earn town cred points. zimmah is by no means cleared in my mind until further actions prove or disprove him town.

unvote vote edoc

[jak111]

Your continued defense of zimmah also can be interpreted as a scumbuddying a townie to earn town cred points. zimmah is by no means cleared in my mind until further actions prove or disprove him town.

unvote vote edoc

Nice catch Saf, I'll leave mine on Zimmah unless we need my vote on Edoc.

[edocsil]

Hilarious jak. (well, actually the post did make me chuckle, and for the right reasons too)

By hate I mean rather then actual HATE (ie: being mean) I mean ragging on him and trying to force him to claim more power for sketchy reasons. His actions are well within his established meta as town, and I am VERY concerned as to what his powers may be, and I have several hypothesis as to why his claim may be detrimental to the town. This should be evident to those who think the situation through, both the meta and the issues with claims. I feel that there are scum who suspect things similar to what I do, and are either pushing the case, and/or wagoning after other follow.


Fastposted. Saf, but Love? Shit, any other role I would be with you 110 percent, but not on Love.

It's a combination of 2 things. One, he's trying to clear himself with flavor only. Second, he pushed a case on you very aggressively based also completely on flavor. I can't remember who it was who provided the investigation (was it Doom?) that said you were unhappy. zimmah then takes that 100% to mean that you're sadness and that you must be scum. Now you're telling us that you're not sadness and you have no idea how that flavor spec was placed on you. At this point, I think that discrepancy needs to be cleared up. If we are not going to pressure zimmah to a claim, then either you or the investigator needs to clear up this apparent contradiction. I'm willing to revisit this heavy flavor spec that zimmah is relying on another day in favor of figuring out who's lying here. Understand that this is not any indication that I believe zimmah is town, but more an indication now that we may have something more interesting to pursue. Your continued defense of zimmah also can be interpreted as a scumbuddying a townie to earn town cred points. zimmah is by no means cleared in my mind until further actions prove or disprove him town.

unvote vote edoc

Bah, you were my number one for the bad guy, and now I cannot pursue.

Vodean was told for some reason that I was sad. Zimmah takes it as a weakness, scumtell, whatever. I should have been pressured, and I was. As I said, if really needed to I will claim. I also know EXACTLY why vodean received that message. However explicitly explaining why will weaken the town's position. If you really must pursue the lead, do so, but I will say I told you so once I am clear.

The scumbuddying accusations are pure WIFOM. Everyone MUST take a stance on things, the silent are the ones with much to hide. I stand by my actions, and I feel my logic to be clear, and I have no need to further clarify my opinions. While it is acceptable that some of you disagree with them, you should still at least see my points for valid. It is your free decision to feel that they are otherwise overruled by other actions/circumstances involving the Zimmah case, buy they should at least be acknowledged to a valid contribution to the discussion.

[zimmah]

Guys. Piss off on the zimmah hate. He has claimed love. There is no point in asking for more. Once I get through a read tonight, one of you guys pushing the most meta crap about "twisted" love is going to get the vote.

^ Now I think we're getting somewhere. Anything you know that we do not Edoc? So far we've been playing normally and there isn't a bit of hate in this thread (Not to my knowledge), just people playing the game and working with what they got.

But no no, this is great, I feel a slip coming up from someone soon. Feeling nervous? Is pressuring a scum mate starting to weigh in on ya?

(I do realize Zimmah may be serious, but this is Mafia, not a place to decide you're gonna call hate crimes on anyone who suspects you).

Going off THAT note, it's a few of us putting down the fact that you said love HAS to be a pure emotion. That's pretty much where everything is generating from my part. You're trying to say something is pure so you can get off scot free from suspicion. Before Edoc goes around flapping his mouth (Don't you enjoy the detailed commentary?) about how everyone is doing some hate speeches or whatever on a player. All the pressure he's receiving, all the criticism, is mostly coming from what he tried to pull off and claiming that he only can be town.

Change your pov Edoc, you know on a regular day, you'd agree that anyone claiming they are 100% town off of pure flavor spec is scummy as hell. Without investigations or facts, of course we're gonna keep going on what we got so far.

I agree with this sentiment. There's no "twisting" of the love claim. As I said before, there's no clearly defined "town" side and "mafia" side this game. At this point, barring something more substantive, any person who tries to argue flavor spec as the sole basis for clearing them is not going to win town points in my book. This isn't Super Mario Mafia where claiming Mario is just about a 100% clearance. For example, Ambition as an emotion I could easily see as both mafia or town.

But zimmah basically saying that he's not going to play because people disagree with him I think is rather melodramatic way of trying to get pressure off him. And, the vote on jak was mainly because jak is the most aggressive player against him. So playing aggressive is fine, but other people can't play aggressive against you zimmah?

unvote vote zimmah

I can take it if people are agresive towards me, but not if it is day 2, and I badly have done anything g wrong, I already claimed a town power, there's enough other leads, and all info you have on me would hardly even warrant an early weak day 1 case, yet it is day 2 and almost everyone is giving me a serious amou t of pressure and marking and twisting every single word I say. It's getting to the point were I don't even enjoy playing anymore.

You people are just impossible to argue with, and anyone who disagrees with your point of view gets suspicious in your eyes. You act like you know the truth but you really have no clue, or you do know and want to twist it because you are on the bad side.

I don't know what

[zimmah]

Guys. Piss off on the zimmah hate. He has claimed love. There is no point in asking for more. Once I get through a read tonight, one of you guys pushing the most meta crap about "twisted" love is going to get the vote.

^ Now I think we're getting somewhere. Anything you know that we do not Edoc? So far we've been playing normally and there isn't a bit of hate in this thread (Not to my knowledge), just people playing the game and working with what they got.

But no no, this is great, I feel a slip coming up from someone soon. Feeling nervous? Is pressuring a scum mate starting to weigh in on ya?

(I do realize Zimmah may be serious, but this is Mafia, not a place to decide you're gonna call hate crimes on anyone who suspects you).

Going off THAT note, it's a few of us putting down the fact that you said love HAS to be a pure emotion. That's pretty much where everything is generating from my part. You're trying to say something is pure so you can get off scot free from suspicion. Before Edoc goes around flapping his mouth (Don't you enjoy the detailed commentary?) about how everyone is doing some hate speeches or whatever on a player. All the pressure he's receiving, all the criticism, is mostly coming from what he tried to pull off and claiming that he only can be town.

Change your pov Edoc, you know on a regular day, you'd agree that anyone claiming they are 100% town off of pure flavor spec is scummy as hell. Without investigations or facts, of course we're gonna keep going on what we got so far.

I agree with this sentiment. There's no "twisting" of the love claim. As I said before, there's no clearly defined "town" side and "mafia" side this game. At this point, barring something more substantive, any person who tries to argue flavor spec as the sole basis for clearing them is not going to win town points in my book. This isn't Super Mario Mafia where claiming Mario is just about a 100% clearance. For example, Ambition as an emotion I could easily see as both mafia or town.

But zimmah basically saying that he's not going to play because people disagree with him I think is rather melodramatic way of trying to get pressure off him. And, the vote on jak was mainly because jak is the most aggressive player against him. So playing aggressive is fine, but other people can't play aggressive against you zimmah?

unvote vote zimmah

I can take it if people are agresive towards me, but not if it is day 2, and I badly have done anything g wrong, I already claimed a town power, there's enough other leads, and all info you have on me would hardly even warrant an early weak day 1 case, yet it is day 2 and almost everyone is giving me a serious amou t of pressure and marking and twisting every single word I say. It's getting to the point were I don't even enjoy playing anymore.

You people are just impossible to argue with, and anyone who disagrees with your point of view gets suspicious in your eyes. You act like you know the truth but you really have no clue, or you do know and want to twist it because you are on the bad side.

I don't know what Edocsil intentions are for defending me, I don't even know if he is town or not, but at least he's not burying his head in the sand a shelling such stupid behavior.

[lord voldemort]

What do you mean everyone....I am pretty sure I am not pressuring you at all

[zimmah]

What do you mean everyone....I am pretty sure I am not pressuring you at all

i said almost everyone.

[jak111]

You CLAIMED a town power? Am I missing something or are you just spewing things out without thinking? Slip perhaps?

Love is not a power, it's a name claim. Get your facts straight.

With your defense so far, my suspicions are only raising Zimmah.

Deadline is in 3 days, so we either pressure someone for a full claim by then *Cough* Zimmah *Cough* or we go into ANOTHER no lynch.

[edocsil]

This is why I should have thought more after coming back from vacation before posting.

I am Joy. Friendly Neighbor. I can PM someones name to the mod at night they are told I am town "A very happy townie." to be explicit. I chose Zimmah last night. In the morning, Vodean says I am "unhappy" A few things could be happening.

First, Zimmah and Vodean are scum, they lie today to try to get me hung. Fairly simple. With my vacation they may even be able to pull off a quicklynch.

Second, someone "reverses" my action and it is retargeted to Vodean. This is what I had at first assumed to be the case, but the more I think of it the more insanely OP this hypothetical role would be, and given the otherwise vannila-ish roles I have been seeing so far this seems out of place.

Third, Zimmah was driven, some scum was told I was a "happy townie" and now Vodean is trying to paste it on me.

The first hypothesis is the simpler, and less convoluted answers are much more likely to be correct, the second one doesn't really fit within sane game mechanics. While my initial defense of Zimmah still makes logical sense, my confidence in it's accuracy is greatly weakened.

The common line between two of the conclusions is that Vodean is scum, so I will Vote Vodean

However, if no traction can be gained with this, I will support a forced claim with Zimmah by the end of the day. Also, if Zimmah no longer desires to play, he should simply be replaced.

[zimmah]

i did not receive a message last night.

apperantly vodean got it, and he claims the opposite of you, not sure who to believe.

[vodean]

well i think that your theory is pretty extreme WIFOM. notice how I wanted to make sure we didnt quick-lynch you while you were away on vacation, and how we didnt even make a lynch, waiting for your return so that you could explain yourself. it is possible that we have a busdriver here, and their action not only busses but has a chance of manipulating the original action somehow (cop results may automatically become guilty, etc.). Im not sure why I received the PM that I did, but the most obvious explanation is that edoc is simply lying.

I want to point out how edoc earlier said he had a very powerful role if no one knew what it was. this role seems pretty weak. i think edoc might be lying in an attempt to cover his tracks. My vote is staying on zimmah for now until he gives a full claim, but i am fully convinced that edoc is lying as well (i know for a fact that he is lying, but he is also likely scum/Sk/non-town).

FP zimmah

[zimmah]

well i think that your theory is pretty extreme WIFOM. notice how I wanted to make sure we didnt quick-lynch you while you were away on vacation, and how we didnt even make a lynch, waiting for your return so that you could explain yourself. it is possible that we have a busdriver here, and their action not only busses but has a chance of manipulating the original action somehow (cop results may automatically become guilty, etc.). Im not sure why I received the PM that I did, but the most obvious explanation is that edoc is simply lying.

I want to point out how edoc earlier said he had a very powerful role if no one knew what it was. this role seems pretty weak. i think edoc might be lying in an attempt to cover his tracks. My vote is staying on zimmah for now until he gives a full claim, but i am fully convinced that edoc is lying as well (i know for a fact that he is lying, but he is also likely scum/Sk/non-town).

FP zimmah

so you actually exposed a serous lie and you STILL vote me while there's no real reason for it.

you guys are going a long way to annoy me.

[vodean]

well i think that your theory is pretty extreme WIFOM. notice how I wanted to make sure we didnt quick-lynch you while you were away on vacation, and how we didnt even make a lynch, waiting for your return so that you could explain yourself. it is possible that we have a busdriver here, and their action not only busses but has a chance of manipulating the original action somehow (cop results may automatically become guilty, etc.). Im not sure why I received the PM that I did, but the most obvious explanation is that edoc is simply lying.

I want to point out how edoc earlier said he had a very powerful role if no one knew what it was. this role seems pretty weak. i think edoc might be lying in an attempt to cover his tracks. My vote is staying on zimmah for now until he gives a full claim, but i am fully convinced that edoc is lying as well (i know for a fact that he is lying, but he is also likely scum/Sk/non-town).

FP zimmah

so you actually exposed a serous lie and you STILL vote me while there's no real reason for it.

you guys are going a long way to annoy me.

im really not trying to annoy you. there is a legitimate case against you. i had nothing to do with the whole religion thing, etc. a yomiel defense is invalid

[zimmah]

what case is on me, can you really tell me?

i guess not

and how is my case better then the one on edoc unless you know edoc is telling the truth (and thus you are lying and you're just buying yourself time).

if you really know edoc to be lying, put your money where your mouth is.

[jak111]

Interesting. We got a web of lies from pressuring Zimmah, and Lord V thought it was for nothing

So, with this web of lies we have 3 possible liars.

Edoc ~ Could be lying about his role
Zimmah ~ Could be lying about not receiving the thing to tell Edoc was town, in which case he could have sent this to Vodean and they could be scum mates
Vodean ~ Could be lying about what Edoc's message says, he is saying he knows for a FACT Edoc is lying, although I see no facts.

So one or two of these three are lying. Looks like Saf and I uncovered a lie with pressure.

For my view, I am more inclined to believe Edoc, he outed himself truly and these roles ARE a bit messed up. If Zimmah is scum then so would Vodean, so I'm leaning toward a Vodean lynch today.

But until the deadline grows nearer and more pieces come together, my vote stays on Zimmah for a CLAIM. He's one of the three in the spot light atm, so continuing to ignore the pressure will only put him in a worse view than he is now.

Fasposted by 2 of the 3 in question. Claim Zimmah, claim and I may remove my vote from you. You're the one stalling time here.

[vodean]

what jak said, except the part about me being his primary target.

jak, look at my above logic. there is pretty clear evidence that edoc is lying.

[vodean]

oh, and sorry for the double-post, but if there is a cop out there, and i am not lynched today, then please investigate me. i think that might help to prove that edoc is the one lying. or investigate edoc, because should prove it too!

[zimmah]

Alright, I'm the flying pumpkin that shoots laser beams out of his ass, now that we got that settled, let's continue with the game.

I already claimed under pressure earlier and I'm not going to let this craziness continue, if you guys want to lose this badly, than just lose, I don't care for this game anymore.

mr squirrel I'm very sorry but just replace me.

I tried, but those guys are just not fun to play with anymore.

[jak111]

Alright, I'm the flying pumpkin that shoots laser beams out of his ass, now that we got that settled, let's continue with the game.

I already claimed under pressure earlier and I'm not going to let this craziness continue, if you guys want to lose this badly, than just lose, I don't care for this game anymore.

mr squirrel I'm very sorry but just replace me.

I tried, but those guys are just not fun to play with anymore.

Seriously? We're pressuring for a role claim here Zimmah. Is that really that hard?

[Mr. Squirrel]

I will be replacing zimmah and Dim (who got a forum ban). Deadline suspended until further notice. You guys can obviously still end the day earlier if you want.

[lord voldemort]

Its kinda annoying that because you cant convince people with words you just give up...heck i dont want to pressure you..but thats what everyone is doing...its no reason to say f*ck it you guys must be bad....

[safariguy5]

So let me get this straight. zimmah had no problem claiming that he was love, and he had no problem claiming that he was a town power role "allegedly" but he won't go with a full roleclaim. Honestly, it seems more and more likely that he's scum and just got caught and now he's too frustrated to actually try to worm his way out of it.

unvote, edoc's claim can be tested pretty easily, it'd take quite a bit of WIFOM to maintain a mafia fakeclaim. Could be that a mafia framer altered the message?