Post Any Evidence For God Here

[Phatscotty]

As full and bright as I am
This light is not my own and
A million light reflections pass over me

Its source is bright and endless
She resuscitates the hopeless
Without her, we are lifeless satellites drifting

[tzor]

Tzor,

Any thoughts on 2 Maccabees 7:28?

http://1611bible.com/kjv-king-james-ver ... ees/7.html

What if He existed even before energy and matter?

Well, first of all here is the quote from the The New American Bible, Revised Edition (NABRE)

I beg you, child, to look at the heavens and the earth and see all that is in them; then you will know that God did not make them out of existing things.* In the same way humankind came into existence.

* [7:28] God did not make them out of existing things: that is, all things were made solely by God’s omnipotent will and creative word; cf. Heb 11:3. This statement has often been taken as a basis for “creation out of nothing” (Latin creatio ex nihilo).

I would say that it says "has often been taken," but this seems flawed. For humankind did not come into existance "from nothing" but rather from the dust of the earth. Then again, Maccabees isn't trying to give a quantum physics lession.

Let's put text into context. Alexander the Great established an empire on the principle that the greatest culture in the word was Greek and that everyone should think like the Greek, talk like the Greek and even eat like the Greek. His empire fractured but all those fractured empires continued to spread the idea that Greek was Great. This reached a major problem when forced upon God's chosen people; they would rather die than disobey God's word. The verse is used in consolation to the sons who were going to die for their faith by their mother; that God could make them anew from scratch. You don't need to have a hand to have a hand after the resurrection of the just, for example.

[Viceroy63]

If we put things into context? Then lets leave Alexander out of this. Why go off into another tangent.

The point is that creation was made out of Nothing because there was nothing before creation. That Adam was made from the dust and then Eve was made from one of Adam's ribs is besides the point.

How did they know that the creation was basically made from nothing? That is the point!

It seems to me that this had to have been revealed knowledge.

[GreecePwns]

We don't know what happened, but let's for a moment take for fact the idea that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.

Why should we believe the Bible's collection of derivative beliefs (deriving from the religions that existed before them for a large amount of content)? Why not Islam's creation story? Or Scientology's? Or anything else?

If we're going with your point, Viceroy, since we assume the universe was created and all these books do, the rest of the content in these books are true. But they can't all be true, can't they? What differentiates the Bible from everything else that makes it the definitive book?

[crispybits]

The point is that creation was made out of Nothing because there was nothing before creation.

How did they know that the creation was basically made from nothing? That is the point!

It seems to me that this had to have been revealed knowledge.

How do you know what there was before creation? It might have been nothing, there might have been something. There is no way we can observe or indirectly calculate anything before a few milliseconds after the big bang, so where does this certainty that there was "nothing" there come from and what evidence do you have to justify the claim?

The science you readily attack doesn't make any claim to know anything about what was there "before" the Big Bang. It says it has a few different guesses, but none of them are falsifiable or provable and so that's what they will remain, guesses.

Once again it's the believers of a magic book (not always the same magic book) that profess special knowledge from the magic book about things they cannot possibly know and in hindsight have more often than not been plain wrong about throughout history.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Ask me a specific question and I will give you a specific answer. But don't ask me to try to explain all that BS because you can't see the evidence for a worldwide flood. Rest assure your arguments have hundreds of faults, but it's not my job to disclose them. That's not what I do with my days, nights and weekends.

What exactly do you believe?
Noah built a ark large enough to house all the animals in the world and then somehow gathered all the animals and insects in the world and kept them alive on a boat for several weeks(?) and then the whole animal population of the Earth was created form the incestuous relationship between each pair of animals?
Is that what you believe?

If so, let's start at the beginning. How big would such a boat have to be? What did he build it from? I'm pretty sure there's no way he could have built a boat big enough from wood (unless, of course, it was lovingly held together by god's manly arm).

Edit: Oh, and for the record. When I call your claims bullshit I give sources refuting all of them. When you call my claims bullshit you say "take my word for it". Interesting that.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

We don't know what happened, but let's for a moment take for fact the idea that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.

Why should we believe the Bible's collection of derivative beliefs (deriving from the religions that existed before them for a large amount of content)? Why not Islam's creation story? Or Scientology's? Or anything else?

If we're going with your point, Viceroy, since we assume the universe was created and all these books do, the rest of the content in these books are true. But they can't all be true, can't they? What differentiates the Bible from everything else that makes it the definitive book?

Because my parents told me so.

-TG

[tzor]

The point is that creation was made out of Nothing because there was nothing before creation.

First of all that is not how it appears in Genesis. Before the beginning everything was chaotic mess.

Seond of all, that's not how it is in the basic Hawlings model. Space and time is closed; the universe simply IS. (I will leave it to the casual observer who is familiar with the first order of infinity to realize that the open model of the universe is no different than the closed one, only infinitely so.)


Side thought that suddenly struck me. I always wonder how much real science was actually revealed to the writers of Genesis without their knowledge. One odd feature of the Old Testament cosmos was the "firmament." But if the "firmament" was really the "magnetosphere?" This started up 3.45 billion years ago and protects us from the sun's radiation and solar winds.

[Haggis_McMutton]

If only god had told one of the writers "and behold, I say unto thee, energy is mass times the speed of light multiplied onto itself" this whole revealed knowledge business would have suddenly become more believable.

Alas, he works in mysterious (and dickish) ways.

[Viceroy63]

Ask me a specific question and I will give you a specific answer. But don't ask me to try to explain all that BS because you can't see the evidence for a worldwide flood. Rest assure your arguments have hundreds of faults, but it's not my job to disclose them. That's not what I do with my days, nights and weekends.

What exactly do you believe?
Noah built a ark large enough to house all the animals in the world and then somehow gathered all the animals and insects in the world and kept them alive on a boat for several weeks(?) and then the whole animal population of the Earth was created form the incestuous relationship between each pair of animals?
Is that what you believe?

If so, let's start at the beginning. How big would such a boat have to be? What did he build it from? I'm pretty sure there's no way he could have built a boat big enough from wood (unless, of course, it was lovingly held together by god's manly arm).

Edit: Oh, and for the record. When I call your claims bullshit I give sources refuting all of them. When you call my claims bullshit you say "take my word for it". Interesting that.

I believe that you find it very difficult to just stay on topic. I don't understand why all the different tangents when I already stated that the evidence for the existence of a Creator is written inside of every human DNA.

Why is it so hard to understand that something as complicated as the DNA Code Sequence of Life could not have occurred by accident. I give you that natural selection is a process by which species mutate and adapt (up to a certain limit) for the purpose of survival. But that does not explain the origin of Life. Nor does it explain that from single cell organism arose the many variations of life. Birds simply can not evolve into horse because the condition over millions of years, are just so???

I do apologize for the "BS" which is what I wrote. You said "Bullshit." But none of what you posted actually refuted the facts that were originally posted by me. You simply expanded into so many tangents that it is just hard to tell which way is up and just what it is that we are talking about. In part I am at fault for letting you do that because I know that Noah's Ark has nothing to do with the actual evidence of a creator. I just went there with you and even brought it up as part of the discussion but the fact is the fact. Life can not occur by accident and the evidence of a Creator is written in our DNA. All other topics have little to do with these fact. And these are scientific facts that the scientific community is coming to grips with.

And for all of you who just joined us, here is a new video explaining it all. Enjoy.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxa5lIf9TBk

[Phatscotty]

We don't know what happened, but let's for a moment take for fact the idea that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.

Why should we believe the Bible's collection of derivative beliefs.

If I may....

I don't usually get into religious stuff, but I understand your question here. Also want to ask, why should we discard it?

[Viceroy63]

We don't know what happened, but let's for a moment take for fact the idea that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.

Why should we believe the Bible's collection of derivative beliefs.

If I may....

I don't usually get into religious stuff, but I understand your question here. Also want to ask, why should we discard it?

The Bible's proof is in it's prophecies. The Bible is the only book that actually foretells future events in advance. In most cases, even thousands of years in advance.

The Bible spoke of Cyrus the Mede and mentioned him by name before he was ever born. The Bible foretold The Persians, Greeks and Roman empires before any of them came to be. Some 30% of the Bible is solely prophecy and 90% of all those prophecies are of the "End Times" or Latter Days and the Bible simply does not miss.

The fact that Israel today is surrounded by armies is a prophecy foretold thousands of Years today. I can also tell you that Germany will rise to become the power that will literally rule this entire planet but only for a very short span of time. The New World Order will die as soon as it is born. This is what the bible predicts. Oh and I forgot to mention that ten rulers will assist Germany.

Before WWII, When Americans did not want to get into another world war, The Radio Church of God predicted that the United States would get into that war and we would win. After the war when the Berlin wall went up they again predicted that the wall would one day come down. Mind you not the wall itself but that Europe would become a United Super Power in world affairs and no Berlin Wall would stand in the way of that. How did they know? They studied Bible Prophecies in details. On every count they were scoffed at and ridiculed but history proved them correct.

No other book on the planet can make that claim. And the Bible prophecies are not to be interpreted by individuals but by the bible itself. The Bible reveals it's own secrets and meanings and not the individual's ideas and misconceptions.

Many scoffers who do not really understand this study of Biblical prophecy are quick to dismiss it with out really giving it a second thought. They will present websites by other scoffers to support their claims that Bible Prophecy is not accurate or written after the fact. None of that is true. If you really want to know the truth, then study it for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for it especially not mine.

Dive into the internet and just research the Prophecies of the bible and see if any other holy book on the planet makes such claims as the Bible does.

[CreepersWiener]

We don't know what happened, but let's for a moment take for fact the idea that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.

Why should we believe the Bible's collection of derivative beliefs.

If I may....

I don't usually get into religious stuff, but I understand your question here. Also want to ask, why should we discard it?

The Bible's proof is in it's prophecies. The Bible is the only book that actually foretells future events in advance. In most cases, even thousands of years in advance.

The Bible spoke of Cyrus the Mede and mentioned him by name before he was ever born. The Bible foretold The Persians, Greeks and Roman empires before any of them came to be. Some 30% of the Bible is solely prophecy and 90% of all those prophecies are of the "End Times" or Latter Days and the Bible simply does not miss.

The fact that Israel today is surrounded by armies is a prophecy foretold thousands of Years today. I can also tell you that Germany will rise to become the power that will literally rule this entire planet but only for a very short span of time. The New World Order will die as soon as it is born. This is what the bible predicts. Oh and I forgot to mention that ten rulers will assist Germany.

Before WWII, When Americans did not want to get into another world war, The Radio Church of God predicted that the United States would get into that war and we would win. After the war when the Berlin wall went up they again predicted that the wall would one day come down. Mind you not the wall itself but that Europe would become a United Super Power in world affairs and no Berlin Wall would stand in the way of that. How did they know? They studied Bible Prophecies in details. On every count they were scoffed at and ridiculed but history proved them correct.

No other book on the planet can make that claim. And the Bible prophecies are not to be interpreted by individuals but by the bible itself. The Bible reveals it's own secrets and meanings and not the individual's ideas and misconceptions.

Many scoffers who do not really understand this study of Biblical prophecy are quick to dismiss it with out really giving it a second thought. They will present websites by other scoffers to support their claims that Bible Prophecy is not accurate or written after the fact. None of that is true. If you really want to know the truth, then study it for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for it especially not mine.

Dive into the internet and just research the Prophecies of the bible and see if any other holy book on the planet makes such claims as the Bible does.

The Hopi Indians predicted:

White People in the AMericas
Covered Wagons
Longhorn Cattle
Railroads
the Internet
Oil Spills
Highways
Hippie Movement
Nuclear Bombs
Space Stations
Twin Towers

and their prophecies are still going!

[Viceroy63]

"According to statements made by the Hopi themselves, none of the currently publicized "Hopi Prophecies" actually originate with the Hopi."

"The Hopi do not discuss their beliefs with outsiders."

Criticism
The so-called "signs of the Hopi Apocalypse" (which are falsely attributed to the Hopi) read like a middle school American History text book with a particular emphasis on the ill-deeds of the white man. Consequently, they seem little more than elements an elaborate revenge fantasy, quite possibly even fabricated by a white person who felt sympathy for the native peoples' plight or simply disgust at his or her own peoples' greed. In addition, the 'prophecies' were first published in 1959, and subsequent publications have added more detail.

Conclusion
The publicized "prophecies" are not of Hopi origin, but rather are written by others with only a false or partial understanding of the Hopi. The actual Hopi 'prophecies' were a warning against militarism, and fit with their staunchly pacifist viewpoint.

Source:
http://www.2012hoax.org/hopi
---------------------------------------

I never heard of the Hopi prophecies before. I tried searching for a date when they were written and I could not find any. There does not seem to be any documentation on that. That could be due to the fact that the Hopi themselves are not the one's responsible for the publication and postings of these prophecies; Although one site suggested that the most recent version was published during the 70's. The "Prophecies" sound like Indian observations than anything else and the supposed rock face where this prophecy is originally written on, has also been added to over the recent years. That would explain recent observations of celestial events. And the Swastika that some one also recently chiseled out.

Now in regards to the celestial event of an approaching star, the Holy Bible also mentions a star falling to the earth (Revelation 8:10-11). But also is mentioned the acts of Volcano's Erupting and terrible Earthquakes as well. Which is what we are seeing more and more of with each passing day. Only difference is that the Bible Prophecies are documented at being thousands of years old. There is simply no disputing that fact.

"Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
-Isaiah 46:9-10

[crispybits]

On the subject of prophecies, I assume your position is that God revealed special knowledge to certain people who were able to foretell with certainty that events exactly as they describe will happen?

Where does that leave free will?

If the universe is immutable and already set out for any being (be that God or anything else) to know the future, then we have none. But if the universe is mutable and we can make choices then prophecy is impossible, even for God.

I know it can be said that God can know all of our choices for all of time, past, present and future without having enforced those choices upon us. But if God did indeed make the universe and set us all on whatever paths we all have taken or will take, and he simultaneously knows exactly what all of those choices are, then in that moment of creation he was not actually allowing any free will, because he was creating the univrse in such a way that those "choices" have to be inevitable and inescapable (or he couldn't know what they would be). He could have created a slightly different universe where some of those "choices" would be different, and therefore the "choices" we have as part of our free will are never made by us, but rather have already been made by him, and he will punish some of us with eternal damnation for the choices which he made for us at the moment of creation....

Surely if you argue the existence of biblical prophecies, then you remove free will, and thereby you make the bible (and it's prophecies) meaningless by removing one of it's most central principles.

[crispybits]

Also, and I'm going to go off on a slight tangent here.....

Can any theist please explain to me the difference between "Faith" and "Opinion"

Thanks

[chang50]

Of course we have freewill,the boss says so...,to paraphrase Christopher Hitchens.

[Metsfanmax]

The Bible's proof is in it's prophecies. The Bible is the only book that actually foretells future events in advance. In most cases, even thousands of years in advance.

The Bible spoke of Cyrus the Mede and mentioned him by name before he was ever born. The Bible foretold The Persians, Greeks and Roman empires before any of them came to be. Some 30% of the Bible is solely prophecy and 90% of all those prophecies are of the "End Times" or Latter Days and the Bible simply does not miss.

Why do you think that the Bible was written before these events?

[CreepersWiener]

"According to statements made by the Hopi themselves, none of the currently publicized "Hopi Prophecies" actually originate with the Hopi."

"The Hopi do not discuss their beliefs with outsiders."

Criticism
The so-called "signs of the Hopi Apocalypse" (which are falsely attributed to the Hopi) read like a middle school American History text book with a particular emphasis on the ill-deeds of the white man. Consequently, they seem little more than elements an elaborate revenge fantasy, quite possibly even fabricated by a white person who felt sympathy for the native peoples' plight or simply disgust at his or her own peoples' greed. In addition, the 'prophecies' were first published in 1959, and subsequent publications have added more detail.

Conclusion
The publicized "prophecies" are not of Hopi origin, but rather are written by others with only a false or partial understanding of the Hopi. The actual Hopi 'prophecies' were a warning against militarism, and fit with their staunchly pacifist viewpoint.

Source:
http://www.2012hoax.org/hopi
---------------------------------------

I never heard of the Hopi prophecies before. I tried searching for a date when they were written and I could not find any. There does not seem to be any documentation on that. That could be due to the fact that the Hopi themselves are not the one's responsible for the publication and postings of these prophecies; Although one site suggested that the most recent version was published during the 70's. The "Prophecies" sound like Indian observations than anything else and the supposed rock face where this prophecy is originally written on, has also been added to over the recent years. That would explain recent observations of celestial events. And the Swastika that some one also recently chiseled out.

Now in regards to the celestial event of an approaching star, the Holy Bible also mentions a star falling to the earth (Revelation 8:10-11). But also is mentioned the acts of Volcano's Erupting and terrible Earthquakes as well. Which is what we are seeing more and more of with each passing day. Only difference is that the Bible Prophecies are documented at being thousands of years old. There is simply no disputing that fact.

"Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
-Isaiah 46:9-10

This is the only book that I am aware of that the Hopis actually are okay with. In regards to anything written by the Hopis, you will search in vain, as the Hopis do not have a written tradition. It is an oral account. An account of the journey of the Hopi People from world to world, until this one.

Their oral tradition declares that the Hopis have lived now on four worlds (this one being the fourth). They claim that each world was destroyed and the Hopis were guided to safety by the Ant People. The Hopis would follow a bright STAR at night and then a CLOUD during the day (sound familiar?).

The first world was destroyed by Great Fire.
The second world was destroyed by Great Ice.
The third world was destroyed by Great Flood.
The fourth world some say will be destroyed by a Great Earthquake.

Anyway, I really don't see how "prophecy" is evidence for God.

Nostradamus sucked! I read his crappy quatrains!

Being a prophet is easy, you just say a bunch of openly interpreted mumbo jumbo; and wait. It's like having a hand full of darts and throwing all the darts at a dart board, and getting a bullseye!

If God is real, and Revelation is real...then I will be waiting for a ten headed dragon to emerge from the ocean. PLLLEEEEEAAAASE!

[PLAYER57832]

We don't know what happened, but let's for a moment take for fact the idea that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.

Why should we believe the Bible's collection of derivative beliefs.

If I may....

I don't usually get into religious stuff, but I understand your question here. Also want to ask, why should we discard it?

The Bible's proof is in it's prophecies. The Bible is the only book that actually foretells future events in advance. In most cases, even thousands of years in advance.

Christian though I am, this is just not true. Many would both argue thatoOther books are believed to foretell the truth with equal veracity ( Many argue Nostradamus foretold the truth, for example -- though I do not).

The Bible spoke of Cyrus the Mede and mentioned him by name before he was ever born. The Bible foretold The Persians, Greeks and Roman empires before any of them came to be. Some 30% of the Bible is solely prophecy and 90% of all those prophecies are of the "End Times" or Latter Days and the Bible simply does not miss.

The fact that Israel today is surrounded by armies is a prophecy foretold thousands of Years today. I can also tell you that Germany will rise to become the power that will literally rule this entire planet but only for a very short span of time. The New World Order will die as soon as it is born. This is what the bible predicts. Oh and I forgot to mention that ten rulers will assist Germany.

Are you truly serious? To say that these things are definitely foretold is very, VERY questionable! In fact, much of these "foretellings" are quite disputed by Jewish Scholars as well as many Christian scholars.

In fact, if you want to get to "Bible Certainties",t hen we get into the whole thing of how a large segment could ignore a major division.. namely did Christ exist or not?

Before WWII, When Americans did not want to get into another world war, The Radio Church of God predicted that the United States would get into that war and we would win. After the war when the Berlin wall went up they again predicted that the wall would one day come down. Mind you not the wall itself but that Europe would become a United Super Power in world affairs and no Berlin Wall would stand in the way of that. How did they know? They studied Bible Prophecies in details. On every count they were scoffed at and ridiculed but history proved them correct.

Uh... sorry, but this did not require biblical prophecy. This required political awareness and knowledge. I have never heard of this "Radio Church of God", but will take your word that it did happen as you say... however, I can also point to many other people saying the exact same thing.

In fact, there is now evidence that Roosevelt very much was aware of more events than was thought at the time or for years afterward.

No other book on the planet can make that claim.

They not only can, they have.. Pretending these ideas don't exist means you have not educated yourself truly to other people's thinking. If you wish to convince people you are correct, it helps to at least understand what other people really think, not just your own ideas and beliefs.

And the Bible prophecies are not to be interpreted by individuals but by the bible itself. The Bible reveals it's own secrets and meanings and not the individual's ideas and misconceptions.

Readt his again, please. Now insert "scientology", "HarI Krishna", "Buddism", etc, etc...

IN some cases the ideas are not written down, in many cases they are, but ALL religions claim such "secret knowledge".

Christ broght truth and openness, not secret hidden ideas. His message was of forgiveness and faith, not secret demands and hidden agendas. In fact, that is the kind of thinking he very much came to combat.

Many scoffers who do not really understand this study of Biblical prophecy are quick to dismiss it with out really giving it a second thought. They will present websites by other scoffers to support their claims that Bible Prophecy is not accurate or written after the fact. None of that is true. If you really want to know the truth, then study it for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for it especially not mine.

Dive into the internet and just research the Prophecies of the bible and see if any other holy book on the planet makes such claims as the Bible does.

Aorry, but you need to do that very thing yourselve.. AND you need to recognize that true research means looking beyond those sources you have been taught to consider, and to question the trusted source just like you question those sources you do not inherently trust.

The Bible can certainly withstand that scrutiny, but too many of the ideas you put forward will not.

[PLAYER57832]

We don't know what happened, but let's for a moment take for fact the idea that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.

Why should we believe the Bible's collection of derivative beliefs.

You have to look at what the Bible actually says, and finally, compare it to what your "heart" tells you.

Christ never told us to just listen unquestioning. In fact, he said almost the opposite. He told us that many, many false prophets and false promoters would come forward. He told us that evil would come in the guise of light.. and mask itself as the church of God. It is up to each of us to discern for ourselves where the truth lies.

From the outset, I would question anyone who tells you to listen only to them without examing any other ideas. (and, no, Christ did not do that... though plenty of people claim that)

[crispybits]

Player in response to your last sentence there...

John 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

I'm not saying you're wrong or that this is definite proof of anything, but I would like clarification of how that fits in with what you just said.

[PLAYER57832]

Player in response to your last sentence there...

John 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

I'm not saying you're wrong or that this is definite proof of anything, but I would like clarification of how that fits in with what you just said.

What I said in no way, shape or form disputes that.

Yes, we are to follow Christ.. but that doesn't mean we leave our brains at the door of the church. We are told to remember that the physical church is lead by fully fallible humans and that we therefore must entirely and always question and compare what is said to the words in the Bible. Christ himself taught us to question and analyze the Old Testament, and I would argue that comparing and questioning the New Testament is similarly very much what he taught. This is why he told us that "above all else... love thy God and thy neighbor as thyself". THOSE dictates, not any other details or ideas of prophecy are the foundation of our faith.

Too much of what is put forward as "following the Bible", including what the above poster wrote, including almost everyhing put forward the Roman Catholic Church aka the Pope is really just the opinion of another human being. Some people want to call one human more Godly, more worthy, religiously "above" others. I argue, most mainline Protestants (though not all) argue that this is precisely one of the ideas that Christ was combatting in his debates and attacks on the Sadducees and Pharisees. Certainly some people are more learned, more educated, but ultimately, we are to compare EVERYTHING, even what we read in the Bible against our heart.

AND, we are also to recognize that our ideas might not be correct, and therefore to use measure and caution in dealign with other people. We are not, for example, to judge other people. Debate is fine, is very good. Saying " I know the truth and you do not and I don't even want to hear you make any other claims" is absolutely not OK.

[PLAYER57832]

I want to add that some people extend this to the words of the Bible. From the outset, there is no question that many versions of the Bible exist. Each has slightly different tone, in a few cases actually can be said to say different things. However, each true Bible (not talking about heretical texts, I mean the various variations on the cannonized Bible) says the same thing about important items.

That gets more controversial. Some people want to hold to a highly literal interpretation....and pretty much pretend that either differences don't exist or that only one version is "truly valid". It is important to recognize these debates exist within the church when debating, because often times a particular person will refer to "Christianity" when what they really mean is their church or even just their personnal ideas.

[crispybits]

So you can question everything..... except Christ?

I'm not trying to troll you here, I'm just wondering given what you are saying where the line is between "things that are literal and set in stone" and "things that are interpretive and open to debate"

Because an extension of your argument that:

We are told to remember that the physical church is lead by fully fallible humans and that we therefore must entirely and always question and compare what is said to the words in the Bible.

and

....ultimately, we are to compare EVERYTHING, even what we read in the Bible against our heart.

leads to a situation where you end up with a kind of religious relativism, where it's all subjective and just based on whatever people feel most drawn towards believing and feeling and nothing is left as objective or sacred or transcendental.