Logic dictates that there is a God!

by **vtmarik** on Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:31 pm

DRoZ wrote:Oh and vtmarik, I've read that there seems to be a lot of theologians believing that john did not write revelations, but rather someone just trying to use his name I dont know if that theory holds any water but apparently it was somewhat of a custom back then to use an apostles name to try to get their point across in christian writings, I am not saying that is the case but I was curious if you had ever read anything pertaining to that.

I never said that it was Apostle John. I said it was John.

I have no idea who really wrote it, but then again no one really does... :wink:

by **jay_a2j** on Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:37 pm

vtmarik wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Revelation is not a parable but go ahead and think it is. It is not about Nero but go ahead and think it is. At the end of Revelation the Lord comes down from heaven, the armies of the world will aim their weapons at Him and they will be destroyed. (Second Comming) Rent the movie Migetto... Omega Code II, it dipicts the end times events although some of it is pure speculation (I don't think the president of the US will be the brother of the anti-christ). But the battle of Armageddon is depicted.

Omega Code II is fiction just like the first Omega Code which says that there's a secret code hidden in the bible (which we all know to be bunk).

I'm gonna throw some links at ya, read them or don't. But if you choose not to read them, you don't have the right to debate revelation anymore. If you aren't willing to fact check something that you know to be true, then you're obviously unwilling to utilize logic.

http://www.reformed.org/eschaton/beast.html
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/666a.html
http://planetpreterist.com/news-1414.html

No work written my man is infallible. One problem with inspiration is that you have no say in the editorial process. To understand this you must admit that there is a possibility that you could be wrong. If you cannot say that and believe it, then why did you start this thread in the first place?

lol... first of all if I chose NOT to read your link's it does not disqualify me from debating Revelation. As for your links...I could come up with 100 more that would contradict those links. The Bible says "In those days there will be many false teachings" (paraphrased) There is much to the book of Revelation... the number 666 is one of them. I have been to sites that say The anti-christ will be the Roman Catholic Pope. They say the writting on the garmet the Pope wears (If you apply the roman numerical value to them) it equals 666. Google "anti-christ" and you will find them. (and if you don't you are unqualified to debate Revelation :wink:

)

>>>>>> http://www.av1611.org/666.html

>>>>>> http://www.biblelight.net/666.htm

ok here's some links

by **AndyDufresne** on Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:42 pm

Just to throw this out there...I remember hearing an NPR program that talked about 666...and how they think it is actually a different number. Looked to see if I could find something, and this was pretty close.

666:Wrong?

--Andy

by **jay_a2j** on Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:59 pm

Oh, look what I found vtmarik! Just for you! Happy reading....

666 and CÆSAR NERO

Some will suggest that the book of Revelation was written only for those living at the time, and that 666 most probably applies to Cæsar Nero, who ruled Rome from 54 to 68 A.D., rather than someone from latter centuries. This point of view, which suggests Revelation had an immediate application to the first century, rather than being prophetic, is known as preterism, and is commonly held by the Catholic Church. So, just how is Nero linked to 666?

The preterist takes a relatively uncommon form of Nero's name, Nero Cæsar or Cæsar Nero, and adds an "n", resulting in Neron Cæsar. Next the Latin is transliterated into Aramaic, resulting in nrwn qsr, which when using the numeric equivalent of the letters, then adds up to 666 as follows:
Nun = 50
Resh = 200
Waw = 6
Nun = 50
Qoph = 100
Samech = 60
Resh = 200

An example of this spelling has apparently been recently discovered in one of the Dead Sea scrolls. If you use the same process, but without the added "n" the result is 616. Interestingly, some early manuscripts have 616 rather than 666, but even scholars such as Irenæus [A.D. 120-202] attribute the 616 to only a copyist error (Against Heresies: Book V Chapter XXX.), "this number [666] being found in all the most approved and ancient copies" [of the Apocalypse] and asserts that "men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony" [to it - 666].

There is a problem though with the above calculation. According to the rules of Jewish numerology, known as gematria, when the letter Nun appears a second time in a word, it is known as a "Final", and takes the value of 700.* So to be precise, NRWN QSR actually adds up to 1316 and not 666.

*Source: Behind Numerology, by Shirley Blackwell Lawrence, copyright 1989, published by Newcastle Publishing Co., Inc., North Hollywood, California, ISBN 0-87877-145-X, page 41.

So the preterist calculation which attributes 666 to Nero, however, is nothing more than a rather desperate attempt to find some likely candidate for the Antichrist other than the Papacy.

by **vtmarik** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:50 am

Ok, i'll bite. What do these links say...

jay_a2j wrote: >>>>>> http://www.av1611.org/666.html

Wow.....

Holy fearmongering doomsdayism Batman!

What's next? License plates will signal the Second Coming?

>>>>>> http://www.biblelight.net/666.htm

Ok, that makes sense. Like i said, i could be wrong.

Personally, I disagree with the fatalism presented in the Book of Revelation. That we are all destined to die in one way or another no matter what we do. The faithful who go with Jesus die and go to heaven while the rest stay in hell on earth.

What's the point of living then? What's the point of being a good person and doing things when the people who you are assisting to live die along with you?

"Eternal life through Jesus" isn't life. It's death and then a pleasant place to hang for all eternity.

Why the song and dance? That doesn't sound very Godly to me...

Unless of course he wants us to have faith in faith itself and not in any force, being, organization, person, or any combination thereof.

Then again, i could be wrong.

But then again, so could you.

by **hawkeye** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:09 am

logic dictates u will never

stfu :evil:

by **vtmarik** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:56 am

hawkeye wrote:logic dictates u will never

stfu

And you're helping me to.... how?

by **heavycola** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:36 am

some likely candidate for the Antichrist other than the Papacy.

This is actual insanity.

by **jay_a2j** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:40 am

vtmarik wrote:
What's the point of living then? What's the point of being a good person and doing things when the people who you are assisting to live die along with you?

"Eternal life through Jesus" isn't life. It's death and then a pleasant place to hang for all eternity.

Why the song and dance? That doesn't sound very Godly to me...

Unless of course he wants us to have faith in faith itself and not in any force, being, organization, person, or any combination thereof.

Then again, i could be wrong.

But then again, so could you.

Well, then there is the belief in the Rapture..so christians will not go through the "hell on earth".

"To live is Christ, to die is gain" The promise that christians will live for eternity with God rather then separated from God.

The point of living is to know God. Nothing else matters. Life on earth is short when compared to eternity. "Those who love their life will lose it"

Christians aren't immune to a physical death. Everyone dies. Its the spiritual death that one should be concerned with.

by **vtmarik** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:20 am

jay_a2j wrote:Well, then there is the belief in the Rapture..so christians will not go through the "hell on earth".

"To live is Christ, to die is gain" The promise that christians will live for eternity with God rather then separated from God.

The point of living is to know God. Nothing else matters. Life on earth is short when compared to eternity. "Those who love their life will lose it"

Christians aren't immune to a physical death. Everyone dies. Its the spiritual death that one should be concerned with.

And I assume you're looking forward to the rapture?

by **Sammy gags** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:09 pm

"God" is a metaphor used as an explanation to all unknown as is subjected by the human race out of instinct by ignorance, speaking unbiasedly. Religion started out as a thought to fill in the gap for the unknown. It later became limited as we learned more about topics such as weather, hence no more Zeus. Religion later became used as a scam for money in the middle ages & then carried on to tradition & culture.

by **morph** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:09 pm

lol its still used to scam us i mean a church is constantly asking for money and such....

by **dragonfly** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:03 pm

grimsleepers response on the first page ruled.

by **jay_a2j** on Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:16 pm

vtmarik wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Well, then there is the belief in the Rapture..so christians will not go through the "hell on earth".

"To live is Christ, to die is gain" The promise that christians will live for eternity with God rather then separated from God.

The point of living is to know God. Nothing else matters. Life on earth is short when compared to eternity. "Those who love their life will lose it"

Christians aren't immune to a physical death. Everyone dies. Its the spiritual death that one should be concerned with.

And I assume you're looking forward to the rapture?

More looking forward to spending eternity with my creator.

by **vtmarik** on Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:18 am

jay_a2j wrote:More looking forward to spending eternity with my creator.

Yep.

To quote Sean Kennedy,

"AUGH!!! YOU'RE CRAZY!!!"

*runs far away from the thread, never to return*

by **reverend_kyle** on Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:13 am

jay_a2j wrote:
vtmarik wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Well, then there is the belief in the Rapture..so christians will not go through the "hell on earth".

"To live is Christ, to die is gain" The promise that christians will live for eternity with God rather then separated from God.

The point of living is to know God. Nothing else matters. Life on earth is short when compared to eternity. "Those who love their life will lose it"

Christians aren't immune to a physical death. Everyone dies. Its the spiritual death that one should be concerned with.

And I assume you're looking forward to the rapture?

More looking forward to spending eternity with my creator.

Wouldn't it be funny if god doesnt exist....

Oh and Vtmarik.. YOu should kill jay.. so he can spend time with his creator and we dont have to deal with him...DOUBLE WIN

by **jay_a2j** on Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 am

But He does exist. And it won't be funny when you see Him.

by **reverend_kyle** on Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:09 pm

jay_a2j wrote:But He does exist. And it won't be funny when you see Him.

What if he doesn't? does that mean you're life has no purpose because your entire purpose has been to please him?

I believe in god but I believe modeling our lives around seeing him is pointless even in the slight possiblility he doesnt exist.... Not only that but I've been a generallly good person my whole life so god wont really have a beef with me...

You however have spent the last month preaching false prophecy about the end of the world so he might have a beef with you.....

by **morph** on Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:20 pm

hehe that was midly funny ^^^

sooo umm when is this thread gonna die?

by **jay_a2j** on Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:30 pm

reverend_kyle wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:But He does exist. And it won't be funny when you see Him.

What if he doesn't? does that mean you're life has no purpose because your entire purpose has been to please him?

I believe in god but I believe modeling our lives around seeing him is pointless even in the slight possiblility he doesnt exist.... Not only that but I've been a generallly good person my whole life so god wont really have a beef with me...

You however have spent the last month preaching false prophecy about the end of the world so he might have a beef with you.....

"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

"Who is good but God?"

God doesn't have "beefs". You either know Him or you dont. He will either say to you "Well done good and faithful servant" or "Depart from me I never knew you!"

Eternity is a long time to take "the chance" that he does not exist. Because I am 100% sure He does. Unfortunately my faith can not save you. God offers salvation through His son and its free. Doesn't cost a thing. Its a simple prayer made with a sincear heart.

"Seek first the kindom of God and everything else will be given to you"

by **vtmarik** on Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:46 pm

Damnit, I just can't escape. It's like a black hole!

jay_a2j wrote:"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

"Who is good but God?"

God doesn't have "beefs". You either know Him or you dont. He will either say to you "Well done good and faithful servant" or "Depart from me I never knew you!"

I thought he was omnipotent and could do, say, or have anything.

Are you sure he wouldn't also say something like "No problem man, I understand. Come on in, Hendrix is on harp tonight."

And you accused me of putting limits on God.

Do God and yourself a favor: Think outside the Book.

by **jay_a2j** on Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:13 am

vtmarik wrote:Damnit, I just can't escape. It's like a black hole!

jay_a2j wrote:"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

"Who is good but God?"

God doesn't have "beefs". You either know Him or you dont. He will either say to you "Well done good and faithful servant" or "Depart from me I never knew you!"

I thought he was omnipotent and could do, say, or have anything.

Are you sure he wouldn't also say something like "No problem man, I understand. Come on in, Hendrix is on harp tonight."

And you accused me of putting limits on God.

Do God and yourself a favor: Think outside the Book.

Do yourself a favor and... look inside the book. :wink:

by **heavycola** on Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:48 am

Do yourself a favor and... look inside the book.

AARRGGHHHHHH

::jabs thumbs in eye sockets::

by **jay_a2j** on Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:25 am

heavycola wrote:
::jabs thumbs in eye sockets::

That could be detrimental to your sense of sight. :wink:

by **morph** on Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:36 am

why isint this thread dead??

Logic dictates that there is a God!

Does God exist?

Who is online