French Tax Hike: Taxpayer Equality Fail

[Phatscotty]

Deparwho?

[Pope Joan]

So you think a 75% tax in a small country that is almost not independent economically anyway is somehow evidence against raising the US tax rate to 25%, as it was during some of the most prosperous times in the US?

Do you even know what the tax rates are in the US? The current top tax rate is 35% and Obama wants it raised to 39.6%. And that's just federal income taxes. It would be great for this country is the top federal income tax rate was only 25%.

Really? This is probably why Romney has 14% effective tax rate

Back to Depatieu, there are two reasons why a lucid politician would want to tax rich at 75%. He may want to f*** the rich, or he may want to appear to f*** the rich, both to attract more voters. It usually does not bring more tax anyway. The latter is what Obama wants (there will be a plenty of loopholes for sure) but in France it appears they choose a former scenario...

[Phatscotty]

So you think a 75% tax in a small country that is almost not independent economically anyway is somehow evidence against raising the US tax rate to 25%, as it was during some of the most prosperous times in the US?

Do you even know what the tax rates are in the US? The current top tax rate is 35% and Obama wants it raised to 39.6%. And that's just federal income taxes. It would be great for this country is the top federal income tax rate was only 25%.

Really? This is probably why Romney has 14% effective tax rate

Back to Depatieu, there are two reasons why a lucid politician would want to tax rich at 75%. He may want to f*** the rich, or he may want to appear to f*** the rich, both to attract more voters. It usually does not bring more tax anyway. The latter is what Obama wants (there will be a plenty of loopholes for sure) but in France it appears they choose a former scenario...


....and the damage, whatever the motive, can be permanent...

[Iliad]

Phatscotty in this thread:
Gerard Depardieu flees France rather than face 75% tax on income earned after first 1million euros. Good on him, completely unreasonable to expect otherwise!
Phatscotty in Hostess thread
Workers refuse to take another wage cut. What a disgrace, why aren't they taking the hit and thinking of the big picture!


Scotty, keeping it simple and classy.

[Phatscotty]

Phatscotty in this thread:
Gerard Depardieu flees France rather than face 75% tax on income earned after first 1million euros. Good on him, completely unreasonable to expect otherwise!
Phatscotty in Hostess thread
Workers refuse to take another wage cut. What a disgrace, why aren't they taking the hit and thinking of the big picture!


Scotty, keeping it simple and classy.

hey, I'm not the one doing the attacking, but do tell us more about class. The main difference is, Depardieu is doing what is smartest for himself. The Hostess employees, specifically the bakers union, did what was worst for them, and screwed over the other 11,500 employees out of their union jobs.

Clearly you miss the point

[Iliad]

Phatscotty in this thread:
Gerard Depardieu flees France rather than face 75% tax on income earned after first 1million euros. Good on him, completely unreasonable to expect otherwise!
Phatscotty in Hostess thread
Workers refuse to take another wage cut. What a disgrace, why aren't they taking the hit and thinking of the big picture!


Scotty, keeping it simple and classy.

hey, I'm not the one doing the attacking, but do tell us more about class. The main difference is, Depardieu is doing what is smartest for himself. The Hostess employees, specifically the bakers union, did what was worst for them, and screwed over the other 11,500 employees out of their union jobs.

Clearly you miss the point

There is no difference, they are both protecting their financial interests. Sorry, there is one difference, one' rich and one's poor. Guess which side you defended and which one you attacked

[Phatscotty]

Phatscotty in this thread:
Gerard Depardieu flees France rather than face 75% tax on income earned after first 1million euros. Good on him, completely unreasonable to expect otherwise!
Phatscotty in Hostess thread
Workers refuse to take another wage cut. What a disgrace, why aren't they taking the hit and thinking of the big picture!


Scotty, keeping it simple and classy.

hey, I'm not the one doing the attacking, but do tell us more about class. The main difference is, Depardieu is doing what is smartest for himself. The Hostess employees, specifically the bakers union, did what was worst for them, and screwed over the other 11,500 employees out of their union jobs.

Clearly you miss the point

There is no difference, they are both protecting their financial interests. Sorry, there is one difference, one' rich and one's poor. Guess which side you defended and which one you attacked

how is a 5% pay cut worse than a 100% paycut (eliminating their own jobs)? How is going from having a union job to no job "protecting their own financial interests"??????

[Iliad]

Phatscotty in this thread:
Gerard Depardieu flees France rather than face 75% tax on income earned after first 1million euros. Good on him, completely unreasonable to expect otherwise!
Phatscotty in Hostess thread
Workers refuse to take another wage cut. What a disgrace, why aren't they taking the hit and thinking of the big picture!


Scotty, keeping it simple and classy.

hey, I'm not the one doing the attacking, but do tell us more about class. The main difference is, Depardieu is doing what is smartest for himself. The Hostess employees, specifically the bakers union, did what was worst for them, and screwed over the other 11,500 employees out of their union jobs.

Clearly you miss the point

There is no difference, they are both protecting their financial interests. Sorry, there is one difference, one' rich and one's poor. Guess which side you defended and which one you attacked

how is a 5% pay cut worse than a 100% paycut?

People, when they feel they aren't getting paid enough for their efforts can quit and find employment elsewhere. Except that didn't even happen, they refused to take a paycut as employees are entitle to do. The employees had no interest in subsidising the inefficiencies of the company with their own living wages.

Why do you hate the free market Scotty?

[Phatscotty]

Phatscotty in this thread:
Gerard Depardieu flees France rather than face 75% tax on income earned after first 1million euros. Good on him, completely unreasonable to expect otherwise!
Phatscotty in Hostess thread
Workers refuse to take another wage cut. What a disgrace, why aren't they taking the hit and thinking of the big picture!


Scotty, keeping it simple and classy.

hey, I'm not the one doing the attacking, but do tell us more about class. The main difference is, Depardieu is doing what is smartest for himself. The Hostess employees, specifically the bakers union, did what was worst for them, and screwed over the other 11,500 employees out of their union jobs.

Clearly you miss the point

There is no difference, they are both protecting their financial interests. Sorry, there is one difference, one' rich and one's poor. Guess which side you defended and which one you attacked

how is a 5% pay cut worse than a 100% paycut?

People, when they feel they aren't getting paid enough for their efforts can quit and find employment elsewhere. Except that didn't even happen, they refused to take a paycut as employees are entitle to do. The employees had no interest in subsidising the inefficiencies of the company with their own living wages.

But you just address people's "feelings". That in no way shows how they were protecting their financial interests. Going from having a paycheck to not having a paycheck seems like an epic fail when it comes to protecting finances...

Wanna try again?

[Iliad]

Phatscotty in this thread:
Gerard Depardieu flees France rather than face 75% tax on income earned after first 1million euros. Good on him, completely unreasonable to expect otherwise!
Phatscotty in Hostess thread
Workers refuse to take another wage cut. What a disgrace, why aren't they taking the hit and thinking of the big picture!


Scotty, keeping it simple and classy.

hey, I'm not the one doing the attacking, but do tell us more about class. The main difference is, Depardieu is doing what is smartest for himself. The Hostess employees, specifically the bakers union, did what was worst for them, and screwed over the other 11,500 employees out of their union jobs.

Clearly you miss the point

There is no difference, they are both protecting their financial interests. Sorry, there is one difference, one' rich and one's poor. Guess which side you defended and which one you attacked

how is a 5% pay cut worse than a 100% paycut?

People, when they feel they aren't getting paid enough for their efforts can quit and find employment elsewhere. Except that didn't even happen, they refused to take a paycut as employees are entitle to do. The employees had no interest in subsidising the inefficiencies of the company with their own living wages.

Why do you hate the free market Scotty?

But you just address people's "feelings". That in no way shows how they were protecting their financial interests. Going from having a paycheck to not having a paycheck seems like an epic fail when it comes to protecting finances...

Wanna try again?

What feelings? What?

They had no interest in working for a reduced wage, now they are free in pursuing employment in other jobs with more lucrative wage offers. That's the logic of your beloved free market Scotty.

[x-raider]

France warms to Gérard Depardieu, the heroic exile
François Hollande, the French prime minister, may come to regret insulting the actor who symbolises Gallic exuberance

Asterix and Obelix have deserted Gaul. Or at least the two actors who played them in three blockbuster movies have. With Gérard “Obelix” Depardieu’s much-trumpeted exile to Belgium last week, following Christian “Asterix” Clavier’s move to London in October, France has lost her best-known fictional heroes, undefeated by Julius Caesar’s legions, but vanquished by François Hollande’s punitive new 75 per cent top marginal income tax rate, recently hiked capital gains tax, and reinforced wealth tax.

The symbolism has not been lost on the French. When France’s richest man, Bernard Arnault, the CEO and main shareholder of the luxury behemoth LVMH, applied for Belgian citizenship last August, it was easy for Socialists to paint him as an unpatriotic, despicable fat cat. “Get lost, you rich b------” blasted a headline on the front page of Libération, the Left-wing daily, effectively capturing the national mood.

But Depardieu is a vastly different proposition from a wealthy tycoon and former asset-stripper whose children’s weddings warrant 10-page spreads in society magazines. When Jean-Marc Ayrault, France’s prime minister, contemptuously called him “a pathetic loser”, Depardieu shot back with an open letter published on Sunday. “I was born in 1948,” he wrote, “I started working aged 14, as a printer, as a warehouseman, then as an actor, and I’ve always paid my taxes.” Over 45 years, Depardieu said, he had paid 145 million euros in tax, and to this day employs 80 people. Last year he paid taxes amounting to 85 per cent of his income. “I am neither worthy of pity nor admirable, but I shall not be called 'pathetic’,” he concluded, saying that he was sending back his French passport.

For a few hours, the government spin doctors thought the French, whose deep mistrust of money is rooted in a dual heritage of Catholicism and unreconstructed Marxism, would join in the public shaming. It did not happen. An online poll conducted by the popular Le Parisien tabloid showed almost 70 per cent supporting the country’s wayward son and poster boy for glorious political incorrectness.

Depardieu has lit up on Jonathan Ross’s show (and growlingly ground his cigarette stub into the studio carpet after a heated exchange); has urinated in an overflowing plastic bottle on an Air France plane after being refused permission to use the loo; has kicked the fenders off an offending car which had crowded him in a Paris street; once peed (not on purpose) on the leg of a Deauville policeman who asked for an autograph in a car park; has punched countless paparazzi on three continents; and over the years has managed to alienate many fellow stars with the kind of blunt talk no luvvie would ever utter. “She has nothing, I can’t even comprehend how she made 50 movies,” he once said of Juliette Binoche.
Related Articles

Belgium says it will not be 'scapegoat' over Gérard Dépardieu
17 Dec 2012

Gérard Depardieu to return French passport
16 Dec 2012

Gerard Depardieu: on the trail of the elusive tax exile
14 Dec 2012

Depardieu sets up legal residence in Belgium
10 Dec 2012

Gerard Depardieu moves to Belgium
10 Dec 2012

Depardieu is excessive in every way, but he’s never been a hypocrite: there have been no stints in rehab after one too many drunken brawls; no staged acts of contrition at any moment of his chaotic private life; no tabloid-monitored diets or fitness regimes. A working-class boy with no formal training but a miraculous gift for bringing to life the most complex nuances of almost every character he has played, he manages to make the classics as accessible as Asterix. He has made over 170 movies and given memorable stage performances – his Tartuffe, the protagonist of Molière’s eponymous play, ranks up there with Louis Jouvet’s historic 1950 performance, exposing the vulnerability and vertiginous loss of control of a devout hypocrite usually played for laughs. He makes his own wine from his own vineyards, owns two restaurants, has written cookbooks of hearty traditional French cuisine. He is, perhaps, a compendium of what the French most aspire to be, taken to epic heights.

He’s been an amnesiac Napoleonic colonel under the Bourbon kings (Le Colonel Chabert); the Provençal peasant ruined by the drought in Jean de Florette; Cyrano de Bergerac on stage and screen; Christopher Columbus for Ridley Scott; Reynaldo in Branagh’s Hamlet. He has worked with Bertolucci, Ang Lee (in Life of Pi), Godard, Resnais, Handke, Truffaut, Wajda, Weir; he’s been Jean Valjean and Rasputin. In short, he is a monument, and he is very difficult to hate.

I remember seeing him at a Cannes film festival party, more than 20 years ago, given in a villa on the hills by Premiere magazine when it was edited by the magnificent Michèle Halberstadt. It was raining violently, the music was blaring in every room of the house, and alone in the sodden garden, in the middle of a waterlogged flowerbed, drenched, his face to the starless sky, like an Easter Island statue, was Depardieu, howling at the cloud-veiled moon. Now that he is settling in an 800,000-euro Walloon house less than a mile from the French border, I can imagine him howling in just the same way at the Hollande crowd and assorted spin doctors. He won’t let them forget him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... exile.html

Thanks for that Phat.

[Symmetry]

i sort of like that article, it has wonderful sense of inaccuracy even for the first paragraph:

Asterix and Obelix have deserted Gaul. Or at least the two actors who played them in three blockbuster movies have. With Gérard “Obelix” Depardieu’s much-trumpeted exile to Belgium last week, following Christian “Asterix” Clavier’s move to London in October, France has lost her best-known fictional heroes, undefeated by Julius Caesar’s legions, but vanquished by François Hollande’s punitive new 75 per cent top marginal income tax rate, recently hiked capital gains tax, and reinforced wealth tax.

As a heads up, modern day Belgium was in Gaul.

[x-raider]

i sort of like that article, it has wonderful sense of inaccuracy even for the first paragraph:

Asterix and Obelix have deserted Gaul. Or at least the two actors who played them in three blockbuster movies have. With Gérard “Obelix” Depardieu’s much-trumpeted exile to Belgium last week, following Christian “Asterix” Clavier’s move to London in October, France has lost her best-known fictional heroes, undefeated by Julius Caesar’s legions, but vanquished by François Hollande’s punitive new 75 per cent top marginal income tax rate, recently hiked capital gains tax, and reinforced wealth tax.

As a heads up, modern day Belgium was in Gaul.

That's given me an idea for a parody to do with CC maps

[Night Strike]

So you think a 75% tax in a small country that is almost not independent economically anyway is somehow evidence against raising the US tax rate to 25%, as it was during some of the most prosperous times in the US?

Do you even know what the tax rates are in the US? The current top tax rate is 35% and Obama wants it raised to 39.6%. And that's just federal income taxes. It would be great for this country is the top federal income tax rate was only 25%.

Really? This is probably why Romney has 14% effective tax rate

Because most of his money comes from capital gains - the investments businesses need to run and the profits that have already been taxed on the corporate level - and not working income. And because he gave a lot of money to charity.

[Symmetry]

So you think a 75% tax in a small country that is almost not independent economically anyway is somehow evidence against raising the US tax rate to 25%, as it was during some of the most prosperous times in the US?

Do you even know what the tax rates are in the US? The current top tax rate is 35% and Obama wants it raised to 39.6%. And that's just federal income taxes. It would be great for this country is the top federal income tax rate was only 25%.

Really? This is probably why Romney has 14% effective tax rate

Because most of his money comes from capital gains - the investments businesses need to run and the profits that have already been taxed on the corporate level - and not working income. And because he gave a lot of money to charity.

So what would be the big deal if he had his income tax restored to Bush era levels?

[Night Strike]

So you think a 75% tax in a small country that is almost not independent economically anyway is somehow evidence against raising the US tax rate to 25%, as it was during some of the most prosperous times in the US?

Do you even know what the tax rates are in the US? The current top tax rate is 35% and Obama wants it raised to 39.6%. And that's just federal income taxes. It would be great for this country is the top federal income tax rate was only 25%.

Really? This is probably why Romney has 14% effective tax rate

Because most of his money comes from capital gains - the investments businesses need to run and the profits that have already been taxed on the corporate level - and not working income. And because he gave a lot of money to charity.

So what would be the big deal if he had his income tax restored to Bush era levels?

His effective tax rate might go up a single percentage (all other things being equal) because none of these specific tax increases affect capital gains income. The debate is only around income taxes: the tax on the amount of money people earn as salary for working or a small business earns as profit from being successful. That's what people like you don't understand and people like Warren Buffet exploit: you call for higher income taxes on "the rich" when the vast majority of people who will pay those taxes aren't the people you think will pay them.

[Symmetry]

So you think a 75% tax in a small country that is almost not independent economically anyway is somehow evidence against raising the US tax rate to 25%, as it was during some of the most prosperous times in the US?

Do you even know what the tax rates are in the US? The current top tax rate is 35% and Obama wants it raised to 39.6%. And that's just federal income taxes. It would be great for this country is the top federal income tax rate was only 25%.

Really? This is probably why Romney has 14% effective tax rate

Because most of his money comes from capital gains - the investments businesses need to run and the profits that have already been taxed on the corporate level - and not working income. And because he gave a lot of money to charity.

So what would be the big deal if he had his income tax restored to Bush era levels?

His effective tax rate might go up a single percentage (all other things being equal) because none of these specific tax increases affect capital gains income. The debate is only around income taxes: the tax on the amount of money people earn as salary for working or a small business earns as profit from being successful. That's what people like you don't understand and people like Warren Buffet exploit: you call for higher income taxes on "the rich" when the vast majority of people who will pay those taxes aren't the people you think will pay them.

People like me? What do you mean?

[betiko]

i sort of like that article, it has wonderful sense of inaccuracy even for the first paragraph:

Asterix and Obelix have deserted Gaul. Or at least the two actors who played them in three blockbuster movies have. With Gérard “Obelix” Depardieu’s much-trumpeted exile to Belgium last week, following Christian “Asterix” Clavier’s move to London in October, France has lost her best-known fictional heroes, undefeated by Julius Caesar’s legions, but vanquished by François Hollande’s punitive new 75 per cent top marginal income tax rate, recently hiked capital gains tax, and reinforced wealth tax.

As a heads up, modern day Belgium was in Gaul.

As another heads up, Christian Clavier was just in the first 2 ("the gaul" and "cleopatra"), asterix was replaced in the third (at the olympics); and asterix was replaced again for the last one (in britain) by an actor actually playing in the asterix and cleopatra movie a minor role actually..
So yeah, bingo, It's not an inaccuracy by paragraph but at least 2!

[Phatscotty]

Dang Brit Media!!!

[2dimes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... K31ao&NR=1

Here's the live version of Cleopatra with live action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ASpjbCQDHs

en francais

[Phatscotty]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/dec ... des-france

As the country's celebrities have lined up to defend or denigrate actor Gérard Depardieu following his self-imposed fiscal exile in neighbouring Belgium, the French have just welcomed back prize-winning author Michel Houellebecq after more than a decade living abroad.

The tax row sparked by Depardieu's departure has divided France – and not simply along traditional left-right, north-south or rich-poor lines. Fans and critics have spent the last week fretting over the morality of his decision and whether concepts of patriotism and solidarity outweigh those of personal gain and perceived greed.

Even after weeks of speculation, the announcement a fortnight ago that Depardieu, 63, was moving to Belgium to take refuge from Socialist president François Hollande's planned "temporary supertax" on earnings of more than €1m (£815,000) came as a shock to fans.

The prime minister, Jean-Marc Ayrault, described the move as "shabby", provoking a furious response from Depardieu ("who are you calling shabby?"), and from Philippe Torreton, a leftwing, César-winning actor who lambasted his colleague in the pages of Libération. In the article, published last week, Torreton, 47, wrote: "You no longer want to be French? You are leaving the French boat in the middle of a storm? Did you think we would approve? What did you expect? A medal? An honorary César from the finance ministry?

"The prime minister considers your behaviour shabby, but you, you consider it what? Heroic? Civic? Altruistic? Tell us. We would like to know."

Singer Michel Sardou, 67, declared himself on the side of the patriots and warned Depardieu that he would be "as bored as a rat" in Belgium. "So there is some divine justice," he joked, adding: "If I said, 'Guys, now you're in the shit. Excuse me but I'm taking my dosh and getting out of here', I couldn't look myself in the face."

However, the debate has moved beyond what some would call an act of betrayal by the star of French films such as Cyrano de Bergerac and Danton. Film director Claude Lelouch said Depardieu was lucky to pay high taxes because it showed he was a success. "It means things are going well," he told BFMTV.

And after Depardieu pointed out that he was not the only French celebrity to want to minimise his tax bill by moving abroad, the newspaper Le Parisien produced an interactive map showing he was right. It revealed Switzerland as the country of choice for fiscal refugees, including national treasures such as actor Alain Delon, singer Johnny Hallyday and a colony of tennis players and sports stars.

Then came news that Alain Afflelou, the wealthy head of a chain of French opticians, was moving to London, ostensibly to expand his business and "absolutely not for tax reasons".

The backlash against the backlash sent a number of cinema greats, including Brigitte Bardot and Catherine Deneuve, rushing to Depardieu's defence, appealing for an end to "Depardieu bashing". And the reclusive Houellebecq, who might have hoped that his return from a decade in Ireland would have gone largely unremarked, has found himself at the centre of the storm. "It is true that money is important, but it is not what is most important. The main reason is that I want to once again speak my language in my daily life," he wrote.

Jérôme Fourquet of pollsters Ifop said a survey last week showed that the French public was divided over whether Depardieu was a victim or a villain, but that reactions were "complex".

"A small majority, 54%, think the government's fiscal policies are too tough and are encouraging people to leave the country, and 40% sympathise with Depardieu. At the same time, 35% told us they were shocked by his leaving, so it's not clear cut," he said.

"Depardieu is symbolic, he is a well-known actor and is admired and held in great affection by the French. This emotional response means, while people may understand why he wants to go, they still think he shouldn't, because it's his country, and because of the idea that France needs him and it's not fair for people like him to take their money elsewhere."

Fourquet said an Ifop poll two years ago showed that 50% of people thought the rich were not being taxed enough. The same poll carried out recently showed that figure had fallen to 30%. Jamel Debbouze, 37, who starred with Depardieu in Astérix and Obélix in 2002, said he would never leave France, adding: "We have to pull together, show some solidarity."

The call was echoed by a blogger called L'Aventure Moderne. "Depardieu is all that we, small people, are not. That's why his exile upsets us so. At the end it's not about money, it's about honour. Don't abandon us. France needs you."