Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & XML

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby nolefan5311 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:42 pm

Sorry it's taken me so long to post Seamus, but I've had a busy week.

Strictly speaking for the territorial bonuses, the only one I would recommend changing is increasing Central Wei to a +6, but this probably isn't going to matter. Bonuses like this one (ala Asia in Classic) are never held, so it's not going to matter much. One change I think needs to be made is to change the connection from Jianye to He Fei instead of Xu Chang. Currently it's a 6 region +3 bonus that can held by holding two territories (Lu-Ling and Xu Chang). The additional territory being able to attack in would justify the +3 a little more.

Changing that connection would also put the +4 for the Capital bonus more in line with what it should be. Another option for the Capitals is to just make them +1 for holding 1, and then awarding an additional troop for holding all of them at the same time. I'm not sure what your ideal vision for the map is Seamus but currently it appears games will revolve around the Cities and Capitals and this change would further encourage that.

As far as the +1 for every territory held within a Kingdom as long as you hold a Capital...not really a fan of that idea. At most people will probably only ever receive a +2 (prior to the endgame), so I don't think that change is a good idea. But, it's your map, and if that's the direction you decide to go, then godspeed.

I'm also really excited about the community involvement in this one. It appears you've got a hit on your hands here Seamus!

:)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:09 am

nolefan5311 wrote:Sorry it's taken me so long to post Seamus, but I've had a busy week.

Not a problem at all. Thanks for your time.

nolefan5311 wrote:Strictly speaking for the territorial bonuses, the only one I would recommend changing is increasing Central Wei to a +6, but this probably isn't going to matter. Bonuses like this one (ala Asia in Classic) are never held, so it's not going to matter much.

Let me know, but I heard "keep it the way it is". :D

nolefan5311 wrote:One change I think needs to be made is to change the connection from Jianye to He Fei instead of Xu Chang. Currently it's a 6 region +3 bonus that can held by holding two territories (Lu-Ling and Xu Chang). The additional territory being able to attack in would justify the +3 a little more.

I like this, will be an easy move.

nolefan5311 wrote:Changing that connection would also put the +4 for the Capital bonus more in line with what it should be. Another option for the Capitals is to just make them +1 for holding 1, and then awarding an additional troop for holding all of them at the same time. I'm not sure what your ideal vision for the map is Seamus but currently it appears games will revolve around the Cities and Capitals and this change would further encourage that.
V.J. and I are going to mull it over a bit, but you know I hate bonuses that don't get used, so a +1 for each and then +4 for all 3 is good to me.

nolefan5311 wrote:As far as the +1 for every territory held within a Kingdom as long as you hold a Capital...not really a fan of that idea. As most people will probably only ever receive a +2 (prior to the endgame), so I don't think that change is a good idea. But, it's your map, and if that's the direction you decide to go, then godspeed.
I agree with you on this one, V.J. and I will come back with an update tomorrow and hopefully we can keep this one moving along at a nice pace.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby The Bison King on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:13 pm

Also, the more I mull over your capital bonus thoughts the more I like it. There is nothing more I dislike than bonuses that don't get used, so something like this is more appealing. Would the capitals still start 3n or maybe go to 4n because of the new importance?

I'd keep them at 3n
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:30 pm

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-02-03:
- After great feedback (thank you all so much), Noles comments, discussion with Koontz and V.J. we're going to keep the Capital bonus as it is, +4 for holding all 3 Capitals. The change will be that the Capitals will start 2n instead of 3n. This will help keep the map simple and not over-bonus a small map, and at the same time allow the Capital bonus to come into play for more types of games. So the map itself hasn't really been updated since v4.1, but the Starting Neutral/888 version has been updated in the OP, and the OP itself has been updated to reflect the new neutrals. I think this will work best, and hope everyone agrees.

CURRENT MAP VERSION

v4.2 - Large (840x800)
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v4.2 - Large (840x800)-with 888's and starting neutrals
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:42 am

It looks like you've got quite a bit of input on this one, and I think the Gameplay is excellent. So, that being said, here is your next stamp

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Onwards and upwards Seamus :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:11 pm

Nice stamp by the way.

Seamus, some of your names in Chinese are wrong I believe. Can you double check these and correct if so, but it also might be nicer to add the full title either way. Might be nice to see capitals and cities go local as well. No need to name them in the legend as you also have the symbols.
蜀國 = Kingdom of Shu
王國衛 = Kingdom of Wei
吳國 = kingdom of Wu
首都 = Capitals
城市 = Cities

Mountain range between Wu and Shu could do with thickening up a bit. It looks way to straight and unnatural. I know the style of the map is not realistic, but try to give them some life.
Title is very plain. Try something like this one but you cannot use this one as it is not free to use.
Lastly for now, the sea route, boring. :P Any chance of seeing something done here? Maybe a couple of junks added going both ways would be a nice addition.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:59 am

koontz1973 wrote:Nice stamp by the way.

Seamus, some of your names in Chinese are wrong I believe. Can you double check these and correct if so, but it also might be nicer to add the full title either way. Might be nice to see capitals and cities go local as well. No need to name them in the legend as you also have the symbols.
蜀國 = Kingdom of Shu
王國衛 = Kingdom of Wei
吳國 = kingdom of Wu
首都 = Capitals
城市 = Cities

Mountain range between Wu and Shu could do with thickening up a bit. It looks way to straight and unnatural. I know the style of the map is not realistic, but try to give them some life.
Title is very plain. Try something like this one but you cannot use this one as it is not free to use.
Lastly for now, the sea route, boring. :P Any chance of seeing something done here? Maybe a couple of junks added going both ways would be a nice addition.

Thanks Koontz as always.

If you can please provide any names that you believe to be incorrect, and the correct name that would be great. The names I have are what I believe to be the correct names, and were taken from the original map, which if you go through that thread were pretty much confirmed to gimil, and he was provided maps (which were not attached unfortunately). But again if you have some just let me know.

What do you mean by "Full Title"? Of the tert names? I don't think that's going to work since I have a few that are going to be tight for the small map anyway, plus I'm pretty happy with them being on the more simple side, especially for names that to most players will be a little hard to pronounce to begin with. I think full titles will just confuse people even more.

As for the Capitals and Cities label in the legend going local, that might (small might) be something I would consider, but I'm not initially a fan of that either. Even though there are symbols, and the bonus would be spelled out in English, I think the feel and intensity of the words "Capitals" and "Cities" (as well as the connection to the symbols) would be lost on the map as most players would only ever look at them as the symbols, unless they speak/read Chinese.

I will certainly look at the mountains, now that we're rockin' the Graphics phase \:D/ , but we did go through a few versions of mountains and these were some of the best I could do with the limited skills I have. Plus I like 'em thin if you know what I mean.

The title font took a long time to find, and I'm sorry to push back again, but I like the simplicity (you say plainess) of the title and map. The gameplay yes, but mainly the overall simplicity of the aesthetics and ease on the eye and mind is what I really like, and what I think a lot of players are wanting these days.

To that "simple" point, I'll look for some different Junks for the sea route, but I feel I would then need to use space to explain them, while the dots are understood to be a connection and nothing else. And while there might be open spaces, I would say those are somewhat necessary to keep the clutter down and allow the mind some free areas.

Thanks for the feedback, good stuff to keep me thinking, and you know I appreciate it.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:13 am

Sorry Seamus, must stop typing late at night after a hard day. Never make myself clear.

Region names are all correct as far as I am aware. No need to change. It is the mini map titles. You have Kingdom of Wu and this , when it should really be this: 吳國 Same for the others. Full title is the maps name. Three Kingdoms of China It is a very plain font and could use with jazzing up. That font I posted shows some sort of ink brush text. Very common in China and the orient even today. Understand about the cities and capitals. How about adding the Chinese similar to the mini maps. Just not as big. Mountains are great, and look great. But for some reason, I am not feeling impassable. Even if you doubled up on thickness at places, it would make them a lot better while adding a slight curve to them. With the junks, it was an idea.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:01 pm

So graphics is next?

I would like to see the mountain range in the middle gain more life. It looks un-natural going in a perfectly straight line.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby cooldeals on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:09 pm

Great work Seamus!

It's sad the China is so landlocked. One of my favorite parts of the Korea map is the use of the ships to connect by water. I also enjoy the capital bonuses on Korea because they are different than most maps. That said I think it's good to not try to remake the same map and Seamus has done an excellent job of making a map that is fun and a little different than most maps out there. I'm looking forward to playing on it. It looks like many of my concerns on the map have already been addressed like placing a neutral on each of the +1 bonus areas to keep them from giving too much of an early advantage.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.2 [2013-02-03] p9

Postby RjBeals on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:59 am

Agree with the "title" comments. It doesn't fit well. Maybe the fact that the map itself is going for the parchment look, with the crease overlay used, and the title has a drop shadow on it. Makes it look like its floating.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:10 pm

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-02-14:
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'll try to work on the mountains and see if I can give them a little more life. Based on the mountains I currently have please let me know any thoughts or suggestions on helping them. Things I did do are:
- Worked on the title to make it more part of the paper, so that it wasn't floating above the piece.
- Completely redid the creases.

CURRENT MAP VERSION

v4.3 - Large (840x800)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:58 pm

Seamus76 wrote:CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-02-14:
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'll try to work on the mountains and see if I can give them a little more life. Based on the mountains I currently have please let me know any thoughts or suggestions on helping them. Things I did do are:
- Worked on the title to make it more part of the paper, so that it wasn't floating above the piece.
- Completely redid the creases.

CURRENT MAP VERSION

v4.3 - Large (840x800)
Click image to enlarge.
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Anyone have some thoughts on this last update?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:31 am

Seamus76 wrote:Anyone have some thoughts on this last update?

The new folds are not as nice as the old ones.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:19 am

I kinda agree about the straight line nature of the main mountain range in the center. Adding some girth (additional mountains) to the range as a whole would likely fix this.
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