[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

[Iron Butterfly]

Unvote

I find it hard to believe there would be a Santa counter claim. The role as Little Witt describes would be almost impossible to lie about without getting caught. He has already listed who he sent gifts to so they should be able to confirm. Granted just because someone has not received a gift does not mean he is lying either.

[rishaed]

unvote unvote as well, without a counterclaim I don't want to mislynch what could be a very helpful role to town.

[betiko]

pcm can't answer even in pm regarding my 2 questions.

[Gustaf Wasa]

also, to all people who were supposed to receive a gift on night 1 by witt: don't come here and confirm. if one of you didn't receive it say it out loud, but I think it's better if you've received a gift to submarine for the moment and wait to see if one comes out and says he didn't receive anything. we don't want scum to know all players who have a gift!

That makes me very suspicious. You seem to want to make sure Little Witt isn't cleared, when he could possibly be lynched. Even though he mentioned five people who could clear his name you want them to be silent.

And for what, saving someone's gift? It seems far more important to me to save an innocent townie from being lynched, especially one who hands out gifts. Frankly, I find it very unlikely that a Mafia would make such a claim, and name five people (and you) who could easily disprove it.

You also changed your story about getting a gift the first day; first you had said you didn't get one. Then you say you did get a gift, you just didn't mention it because it wasn't a gift you could use. And now you have lost the PM that could clear up the confusion? Convenient. Important PMs like that I save until the end of the game.

I haven't read through the whole game yet, I still have some pages left, but you seem quick to cast suspicion on people from the beginning. Hmm....

Do we have anything else to go on today? No? Okay then.

vote betiko

[Little Witt]

also, to all people who were supposed to receive a gift on night 1 by witt: don't come here and confirm. if one of you didn't receive it say it out loud, but I think it's better if you've received a gift to submarine for the moment and wait to see if one comes out and says he didn't receive anything. we don't want scum to know all players who have a gift!

That makes me very suspicious. You seem to want to make sure Little Witt isn't cleared, when he could possibly be lynched. Even though he mentioned five people who could clear his name you want them to be silent.

And for what, saving someone's gift? It seems far more important to me to save an innocent townie from being lynched, especially one who hands out gifts. Frankly, I find it very unlikely that a Mafia would make such a claim, and name five people (and you) who could easily disprove it.

You also changed your story about getting a gift the first day; first you had said you didn't get one. Then you say you did get a gift, you just didn't mention it because it wasn't a gift you could use. And now you have lost the PM that could clear up the confusion? Convenient. Important PMs like that I save until the end of the game.

I haven't read through the whole game yet, I still have some pages left, but you seem quick to cast suspicion on people from the beginning. Hmm....

Do we have anything else to go on today? No? Okay then.

vote betiko

Wow nice catch didn't see that.
We might be able to get something
Vote Betiko

[Metsfanmax]

also, to all people who were supposed to receive a gift on night 1 by witt: don't come here and confirm. if one of you didn't receive it say it out loud, but I think it's better if you've received a gift to submarine for the moment and wait to see if one comes out and says he didn't receive anything. we don't want scum to know all players who have a gift!

That makes me very suspicious. You seem to want to make sure Little Witt isn't cleared, when he could possibly be lynched. Even though he mentioned five people who could clear his name you want them to be silent.

And for what, saving someone's gift? It seems far more important to me to save an innocent townie from being lynched, especially one who hands out gifts. Frankly, I find it very unlikely that a Mafia would make such a claim, and name five people (and you) who could easily disprove it.

You also changed your story about getting a gift the first day; first you had said you didn't get one. Then you say you did get a gift, you just didn't mention it because it wasn't a gift you could use. And now you have lost the PM that could clear up the confusion? Convenient. Important PMs like that I save until the end of the game.

I haven't read through the whole game yet, I still have some pages left, but you seem quick to cast suspicion on people from the beginning. Hmm....

Do we have anything else to go on today? No? Okay then.

vote betiko

If Little Witt is telling the truth about who he gives gifts to, and assuming Santa is not the only gift giver in the game, then does it really matter if the mafia knows who has gifts? They can't possibly take out all the people who have gifts in a reasonable amount of time, and for all anyone knows the people who got gifts so far are all VTs and so mafia would be doing themselves a disservice.

[betiko]

also, to all people who were supposed to receive a gift on night 1 by witt: don't come here and confirm. if one of you didn't receive it say it out loud, but I think it's better if you've received a gift to submarine for the moment and wait to see if one comes out and says he didn't receive anything. we don't want scum to know all players who have a gift!

That makes me very suspicious. You seem to want to make sure Little Witt isn't cleared, when he could possibly be lynched. Even though he mentioned five people who could clear his name you want them to be silent.

And for what, saving someone's gift? It seems far more important to me to save an innocent townie from being lynched, especially one who hands out gifts. Frankly, I find it very unlikely that a Mafia would make such a claim, and name five people (and you) who could easily disprove it.

You also changed your story about getting a gift the first day; first you had said you didn't get one. Then you say you did get a gift, you just didn't mention it because it wasn't a gift you could use. And now you have lost the PM that could clear up the confusion? Convenient. Important PMs like that I save until the end of the game.

I haven't read through the whole game yet, I still have some pages left, but you seem quick to cast suspicion on people from the beginning. Hmm....

Do we have anything else to go on today? No? Okay then.

vote betiko

about your first point: I am not certain that witt is who he says he is (as first he skimmed about sending me a present on day 1). If he's a scum about to get caught he might as well get as much info as possible for his scum buddies, therefore he could be testing and somewhat "asking" a whole range of players if they have gifts. Do we need 5 players to come in and say one after the other "I have a gift indeed" given that there is a gift stealing mechanism in this game? think! The less public info about who has gifts or not is in town's interest. If just one person steps out and says "I didn't receive such gift on night 1" is more than enough for me, no need for the whole crew to expose themselves, I'd rather wifom mafia and have other people telling it's untrue only if necesairy.

second point: no I never changed my story you are skimming. I NEVER RECEIVED A GIFT ON NIGHT 1. What I received was some kind of voucher or whatever that could be used just that night only and it kind of gave a bonus for gifts, I don't remember exactly the mechanism as PCM told me it wasn't something I could use at that point of the game anyway and that it was just valid for that day. A "gift" in this game refers to something that can be changed for an ability once you get 2, and this is not what I received, but it is what witt claimed he sent me at first, then HE changed his story. The PM regarding night 1 was received over a month ago, and believe it or not, my inbox and sent messages section are too full to still have those message as you can only keep 75 messages on each one and I never take the time to delete the ones that become useless.

Now regarding witt: I do think it's quite unlikely that he is not santa. I think he did a really shitty claim as he was too nervous as if he was going to get lynched in the next minutes. He should have checked what he was about to reveal instead of quickly sending whatever he remembered and give lots of inaccuracies.
I'll wait a day to see if any of the people who supposedly received a gift on night 1 didn't before I unvote. Right now there are 2 flaws in witt's initial claim: he didn't send me a gift on night 1 and he doesn't send 1 gift per night. The second claim would make more sense though: santa sending as many gifts to as people he wants (but 1 per night).

fastposted

[betiko]

also, to all people who were supposed to receive a gift on night 1 by witt: don't come here and confirm. if one of you didn't receive it say it out loud, but I think it's better if you've received a gift to submarine for the moment and wait to see if one comes out and says he didn't receive anything. we don't want scum to know all players who have a gift!

That makes me very suspicious. You seem to want to make sure Little Witt isn't cleared, when he could possibly be lynched. Even though he mentioned five people who could clear his name you want them to be silent.

And for what, saving someone's gift? It seems far more important to me to save an innocent townie from being lynched, especially one who hands out gifts. Frankly, I find it very unlikely that a Mafia would make such a claim, and name five people (and you) who could easily disprove it.

You also changed your story about getting a gift the first day; first you had said you didn't get one. Then you say you did get a gift, you just didn't mention it because it wasn't a gift you could use. And now you have lost the PM that could clear up the confusion? Convenient. Important PMs like that I save until the end of the game.

I haven't read through the whole game yet, I still have some pages left, but you seem quick to cast suspicion on people from the beginning. Hmm....

Do we have anything else to go on today? No? Okay then.

vote betiko

If Little Witt is telling the truth about who he gives gifts to, and assuming Santa is not the only gift giver in the game, then does it really matter if the mafia knows who has gifts? They can't possibly take out all the people who have gifts in a reasonable amount of time, and for all anyone knows the people who got gifts so far are all VTs and so mafia would be doing themselves a disservice.

they can steal gifts (or third party? or who knows, might even be a town who has this ability...) anyway, they can kill AND steal gifts. Also, mafia can see who is most likely going to use an action and roleblock someone (nendreel/gustaf got roleblocked last night)

[pancakemix]

Vote Count

Little Witt - 2 (edocsil, betiko)
betiko - 2 (Gustaf, Witt)
Deadline February 22. A 24-hour runoff will commence in the event of a tie.

[Gustaf Wasa]

Thank you for telling me to think, betiko. But disagreeing with you doesn't mean that a person is dumb, shocking as it may seem.

about your first point: I am not certain that witt is who he says he is (as first he skimmed about sending me a present on day 1). If he's a scum about to get caught he might as well get as much info as possible for his scum buddies, therefore he could be testing and somewhat "asking" a whole range of players if they have gifts. Do we need 5 players to come in and say one after the other "I have a gift indeed" given that there is a gift stealing mechanism in this game? think! The less public info about who has gifts or not is in town's interest.

If Little Witt is not scum, then the Mafia already know how which people have received gifts from him. It would therefore benefit town that he was cleared, by these people stepping forward. It would benefit us far more than someone losing a gift to a gift stealer. I definitely don't think the Mafia can steal from more than one person at a time.

If he is Mafia, I strongly doubt that Little Witt would name these people just to see who would step forward. I don't see that in him. By the way, he correctly named you as a gift receiver. While you're the one who lied about it.

And no, you don't have to tell me that I am skimming; I doubt you were standing here looking over my shoulder, so you wouldn't know that. I know perfectly well what you said. You said you didn't receive a gift. Then you said oh, I did, but it was not useful, so I just didn't call it a gift. But you received something, just like Little Witt correctly pointed out. He was right, your initial statement was wrong. Whether you call it a gift or not, by not mentioning you received something, you were lying.

Yes, I know how many messages can be saved in Conquer Club, I have been here a while. Important messages should be kept for the duration of the game. If you clean out your inbox, you can save the text in Word, in an email draft, or even on a piece of old-fashioned paper.

Now regarding witt: I do think it's quite unlikely that he is not santa. I think he did a really shitty claim as he was too nervous as if he was going to get lynched in the next minutes. He should have checked what he was about to reveal instead of quickly sending whatever he remembered and give lots of inaccuracies.

You voted for someone who you think is town. Need I justify my vote any further? Heck, even if you are town you prove to be a liability by your statement. So by lynching you, either we get rid of a Mafia or a townie who votes for another townie because he thinks the claim is true but "shitty". Sounds like a pretty good deal.

[anamainiacks]

also, to all people who were supposed to receive a gift on night 1 by witt: don't come here and confirm. if one of you didn't receive it say it out loud, but I think it's better if you've received a gift to submarine for the moment and wait to see if one comes out and says he didn't receive anything. we don't want scum to know all players who have a gift!

That makes me very suspicious. You seem to want to make sure Little Witt isn't cleared, when he could possibly be lynched. Even though he mentioned five people who could clear his name you want them to be silent.

And for what, saving someone's gift? It seems far more important to me to save an innocent townie from being lynched, especially one who hands out gifts. Frankly, I find it very unlikely that a Mafia would make such a claim, and name five people (and you) who could easily disprove it

Do we need 5 players to come in and say one after the other "I have a gift indeed" given that there is a gift stealing mechanism in this game? think! The less public info about who has gifts or not is in town's interest. If just one person steps out and says "I didn't receive such gift on night 1" is more than enough for me, no need for the whole crew to expose themselves, I'd rather wifom mafia and have other people telling it's untrue only if necesairy.

But effectively, what you (betiko) have done by saying that is - if you got a gift, keep quiet; if you didn't get one, speak. Meaning that out of those mentioned, if they had kept quiet and not come forward saying they hadn't received anything, they probably got something. So your instruction ended up being counter-productive. For all we know, that was an intentional discreet scummy move too, while trying to appear that you're on the townies' side and not wanting gift recipients to be revealed.

Between the 2 cases we have, yours currently seems more suspicious, especially with what Gustaf mentioned about your insistence on putting your vote on someone you believe to be a townie. And a valuable one too. And let's not forget how betiko tried to pin a case on rishaed based on a joke vote too... Vote betiko.

And finally, though I find this point pretty minor, just to settle the score between Gustaf and betiko:

I can tell you guys the following: night 1 I received some sort of lottery ticket or something like that, it doubled up the presents and that was valid 1 day only, couldn't be used the next night from what pcm told me. Unfortunately I don't have the PM anymore and I didn't quite catch the whole mechanics of this, didn't really care as I couldn't do anything with it.

betiko did acknowledge receiving a 'lottery ticket'. It is/was, however, clearly not allowed to be traded in as part of the gift/present trade-in game mechanic, which Witt's claim clearly alluded to. So betiko wasn't lying in this case - and if we assume what they both claim to be true - whatever betiko received wouldn't have been from Witt anyway.

Still doesn't remove the fact that betiko's other actions are suspicious, though.

[spiesr]

Betiko's plan thing about determining if people got gifts from Witt works as intended in exactly one scenario.
If Witt is scum and this is all a fake designed to see which of those players have gifts then it can be mostly thwarted if one of the players on that list who didn't get a gift post saying so, but only if the others players on that list don't make any posts at all between Little Witt's claim and that player revealing that they did not receive a gift. If the other players are completely silent during that period then the scum won't know if they had gifts are not. That didn't happen here though.

Anyhow, I think that getting a claim from Betiko before this Day ends wouldn't be a bad idea now. So Vote Betiko.

[betiko]

just to be clear: I voted witt after he claimed he sent me a gift on night 1, which he did not (gustaf still doesn't get what a "gift" means in this game apparently) and after claiming being santa he can send one gift per person. It was badly formulated I guess, after his reexplanation it made sense, as otherwise santa would have a pretty powerless role.

and gustav, I'm not calling you dumb, but your case is. You're skimming again the fact that there is a roleblocker, and that this roleblocker blocked you character last night, stealing isn't my only concern.

And with the bad news just given by PCM of the deadline and the vote that have acumulated on me, I have no choice but to claim asap.

I'm Mrs Jessica Klaus, town gifter. do you want me to tell everyone who I sent gifts to on night 1 & 2 so you cut this crap?
well done town for blindly folowing gustaf who hasn't even finished reading the thread, situation is getting worse each time. With such a short deadline, and given that we have to lynch someone, I'd rather lynch the heat miser, no time for a new case with less than 24h.
Just hope that witt really made mistakes and that he didn't play the noob card this good.

unvote vote soundman

[Little Witt]

If that is a lynch and we go into night stage, I would like to receive some sort of kill protection tonight. I am most likely a key role "santa duh" And there must be someone trying to target me. Wouldn't like to wake D4 with santa dead. Idk if this is all wise but I intend on giving the presents first to the claimed town tonight and than spread the rest around to new players. I don't want to keep giving a mafia presents and let the mafia get a nice power right away. That is my plan tonight.

[Iron Butterfly]

Here is something completely over looked.

Little Witt claims he sent Betiko a gift night one, which Betiko states he never received.

Night two Betiko states he received a PM saying his gifts were stolen. Yet he did not receive a PM his gifts were stolen night one.

One of the two are lying. Little Witt was not role blocked night one because neeandrel/gustaf, a claimed cop, states he was unless of course Gustaf is lying.

The only other explanation would be a busdriver. Given the flavor of the game and the gift giving I am inclined to believe a bus driver is not in game.

Vote Betiko

I find it a sly move that betiko voted for Soundman. It looks like hes trying to draw the spiesr vote. i also felt Betiko was scummy before Little Witt was called out

[thechuck51]

I believe Betiko's claim and we would be making a mistake to lynch him.

[Iron Butterfly]

Here is something completely over looked.

Little Witt claims he sent Betiko a gift night one, which Betiko states he never received.

Night two Betiko states he received a PM saying his gifts were stolen. Yet he did not receive a PM his gifts were stolen night one.

One of the two are lying. Little Witt was not role blocked night one because neeandrel/gustaf, a claimed cop, states he was unless of course Gustaf is lying.

The only other explanation would be a busdriver. Given the flavor of the game and the gift giving I am inclined to believe a bus driver is not in game.

Vote Betiko

I find it a sly move that betiko voted for Soundman. It looks like hes trying to draw the spiesr vote. i also felt Betiko was scummy before Little Witt was called out

Unvote Betiko

Geez Louise

I think I misread or *cough* skimmed the part about betikos night one gift. he did not receive a gift but a voucher?

I need little Witt to specifically state his role and how it works. He states he gave betiko a gift betiko says it is a voucher. I over looked the voucher part.

[Iron Butterfly]

Unvote Betiko

[betiko]

what possibly happened is that witt sent me a gift night 2 and he remembered it as night 1 (he rechecked his gifts from night 1 and I wasn't in it as opposed to his first statement and after I denied receiving a night 1 gift). I don't think santa gives those vouchers or coupons, it's probably someone else.
I would just like to clear up the doubt: witt telling us who he sent gifts to night 2. It's possible that if I received a gift night 2 and got stolen that same night I had no way of knowing I received it in the first place, as PCM won't tell me the mechanism, not even through pm.
witt said I'm one of the guys that received night 2 gifts, I think we might need to clear this up.. but wouldn't a "real santa" already show up at this stage?

I want to ask the mod an extended deadline and a mass prod, otherwise this is looking like a day that could end by a massive misslynch+night kill.

for anyone not believing me I still have the gift recipients card to pull out, but I'd rather not.

[betiko]

If that is a lynch and we go into night stage, I would like to receive some sort of kill protection tonight. I am most likely a key role "santa duh" And there must be someone trying to target me. Wouldn't like to wake D4 with santa dead. Idk if this is all wise but I intend on giving the presents first to the claimed town tonight and than spread the rest around to new players. I don't want to keep giving a mafia presents and let the mafia get a nice power right away. That is my plan tonight.

do you realize you are not making any sense? give presents only to the claimed town, who would that be??

[anamainiacks]

Unvote, I believe betiko's claim. Witt's seems legit too, especially since nobody has counterclaimed.

betiko, so your power is similar to Witt's?

[Metsfanmax]

Here is something completely over looked.

Little Witt claims he sent Betiko a gift night one, which Betiko states he never received.

Night two Betiko states he received a PM saying his gifts were stolen. Yet he did not receive a PM his gifts were stolen night one.

Betiko still might have gotten a message saying "all your gifts were stolen" even if he didn't have any, since that's what the intended mechanic ostensibly was.

Before I decide what to do, can we get a vote count? Don't want to accidentally put betiko at L-1 or lynch.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm Mrs Jessica Klaus, town gifter. do you want me to tell everyone who I sent gifts to on night 1 & 2 so you cut this crap?

This depends on whether you sent gifts to any of the same people that Little Witt claims to have sent them to on N1. If that is the case, then such people should be able to verify getting two gifts in one night. Since we don't know how many gift givers there are in total, however, I'm not sure that this is wise.

[betiko]

yes I guess I have no problem answering this. I have sent to a different player both night and there is no overlapping with witt's recipients, at least the ones he claims to have sent on night 1 as we just know he sent one to me on night 2.

to anamaniacs: no. at first witt claimed a role that involved being able to send only 1 gift per player during the game (which is what I understood). this would've been underpowered compared to me so made absolutely no sense. I can send 1 gift per night to whoever I want, so I guess it's a pretty standard gifter role and that we are a few with this ability..

[spiesr]

With such a short deadline, and given that we have to lynch someone, I'd rather lynch the heat miser, no time for a new case with less than 24h.
Just hope that witt really made mistakes and that he didn't play the noob card this good.

unvote vote soundman

Well, you wont get any complaints from me about that plan. Unvote Vote Soundman.

Before I decide what to do, can we get a vote count? Don't want to accidentally put betiko at L-1 or lynch.

By my count he now has 2 votes on him. Of course secret votes are a possibility, but he should not be anywhere close to the 7 for a non-deadline lynch.

Other thoughts, at some point I think Little Witt needs to give a more coherent explanation of his claim and explain the apparent contradictions in what he said before. I really bothers me when people can't keep their role straight to make an accurate claim. This isn't an RT game, you should always have plenty of time to read your role pm again and make a clear and correct post when claiming...