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Post Any Evidence For God Here

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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:53 am

chang50 wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:
chang50 wrote:If one cares to look for truth, it is there. The Lord declared all who seek will find, all who ask of Him, He will give. Salvation is merely a search away, merely an ask away. He has already sent His son to pay in full for all our transgressions. but only those
who ask for this free gift, receive. those who reject, He will rightly judge.


If your God could be shown to exist,I would accept the fact without hesitation,but equally I would refuse his free gift,as you put it,and take whatever judgement comes my way because I have too much self-respect to bow down to such a monster.


Exactly why, is God a "Monster?"


Just look around you,20,000 infants starving to death every single day.An omnipotent god who does not prevent that is monstrous at a minimum.It is way too high a price for human freewill.


that's not the fault of god but of a combination of human greed (humans abusing other humans for profit and power) and the influence of the devil.

eventually god will pass his judgement, but he does so at his time and not at your time.

the reason why he is allowing all of this to happen is to prove a point, in the early days of creation the devil tempted adam and eve to oppose god's sovereignty to rule over man, and claimed man was able to rule themselves without god's leadership. God is kind enough to give us the time to proof that we don't need him, but this only results in war, abuse, racism, famine, etc. Eventually god will no longer tolerate all of this and will put an end to this, while having proven for eternity that the devil is a liar and that mankind in fact does need god's guidance to succeed.

What good would it be if he'd just destroy adam and eve and the devil and make new humans? How would that be justified, and what free will would we have if god would just erase everyone who opposes him?

If you stick your hand in the fire, do you blame obama/god/your parents/your teacher/the fireman you got burned? I guess you wouldn't, it's your own fault for being so stupid to put your hand in the fire in the first place.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:05 pm

zimmah wrote:the reason why he is allowing all of this to happen is to prove a point,

It is hard to imagine inscribing human personification like this.


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Re: Re:

Postby jonesthecurl on Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:46 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:So you are directly opposed to the opinion of Viceroy, who bases his opinion on exactly the same evidence as you do?
Which of you is wrong?


Jones; You are not in any position to judge between me and Universalchiro because you are only pretending that you know who I am and what I believe. On several occasions in the past I have pointed out where you were simply exaggerating the point of what I posted or misunderstanding what I wrote completely.


So: you and he both go to the same source for the proof of the beginning of all things. You disagree about what is says by around 14 billion years, but that's not important. All that matters is that the evidence is there and obvious to anyone who looks. Do I have that right?
And I don't "pretend" to know what you believe. Frankly, I find the things that you claim to believe to be an impenetrable mish-mash of wishful thinking, circular reasoning, willful ignorance, special pleading, and bloody nonsense.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:23 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:The theory of evolution states that complex life forms evolved from simpler life forms. The Video explains how this could not happen because any part or an organism (according to evolution), that is not functional gets weeded right out.


Wow. That right there is all that is needed to show that your video is a ludicrous compilation of misinformation. That's a complete lack of understanding of evolution given in two short sentences.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:26 pm

zimmah wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:
chang50 wrote:If one cares to look for truth, it is there. The Lord declared all who seek will find, all who ask of Him, He will give. Salvation is merely a search away, merely an ask away. He has already sent His son to pay in full for all our transgressions. but only those
who ask for this free gift, receive. those who reject, He will rightly judge.

If your God could be shown to exist,I would accept the fact without hesitation,but equally I would refuse his free gift,as you put it,and take whatever judgement comes my way because I have too much self-respect to bow down to such a monster.


Exactly why, is God a "Monster?"


Just look around you,20,000 infants starving to death every single day.An omnipotent god who does not prevent that is monstrous at a minimum.It is way too high a price for human freewill.


that's not the fault of god but of a combination of human greed (humans abusing other humans for profit and power) and the influence of the devil.


Doesn't that seem awfully convenient to you? Everything that's good is caused by God and everything that's not good is caused by the devil? I mean...really?

zimmah wrote:the reason why he is allowing all of this to happen is to prove a point


The point being that he's cruel?
The point being that he's evil?
The point being that he's apathetic?

zimmah wrote:If you stick your hand in the fire, do you blame obama/god/your parents/your teacher/the fireman you got burned?


If the parents of a child had created the fire, they are partially responsible for not watching over the child as it was around the fire.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby pimpdave on Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:42 pm

God was already disproven at McGill University in 1944.
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Re: Re:

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:32 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:So you are directly opposed to the opinion of Viceroy, who bases his opinion on exactly the same evidence as you do?
Which of you is wrong?


Jones; You are not in any position to judge between me and Universalchiro because you are only pretending that you know who I am and what I believe. On several occasions in the past I have pointed out where you were simply exaggerating the point of what I posted or misunderstanding what I wrote completely.


So: you and he both go to the same source for the proof of the beginning of all things. You disagree about what is says by around 14 billion years, but that's not important. All that matters is that the evidence is there and obvious to anyone who looks. Do I have that right?
And I don't "pretend" to know what you believe. Frankly, I find the things that you claim to believe to be an impenetrable mish-mash of wishful thinking, circular reasoning, willful ignorance, special pleading, and bloody nonsense.


OK Earl; If you say so.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:52 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Then you should begin a new thread for that about the different beliefs of different religions. This is about the question of God's existence and the evidence for that. Not a debate about different beliefs. This is exactly what I commented about before when I posted that this thread is nothing more then a bait and switch for the bashing of believers. The evidence matters not, only that you get believers to respond and off the topic in order to bash in their beliefs and call us fools for believing?


Yes but you well know that I tried that.
However, you and uchiro and others have told us that the evidence is "in the Bible", but do not appear to agree about what the Bible evidence is. If you think that this is not relevant to the current discussion, then I have to conclude that you don't understand what the word "evidence" means. If you can base two opinions on the same incontrovertible evidence, then the evidence is not incontrovertible - i.e. not "proof". Or, my friend, if it is, let us see you convince each other. You and Uchiro disagree on some fundamental issues. You both claim to be able to read the Bible as it was meant to be read. If one of you can sincerely convert the other to the "correct" point of view, then I (and I suspect, a lot of other cc'ers )will have more respect for you.
And that's just talking about you and uchiro. I have also seen Lionz and Jay-2-whatever his name was and a bunch of other people here claim that all you have to do is read the Bible "properly" to see the blindingly obvious truth. Which varies depending on the reader.
And at this point I'm not even talking about the Christian community worldwide and the multiplicity of voices within it, just cc creationists.
There are many voices here claiming that the Bible is in and of itself proof of a god, but you do not have one voice.
So please sort out between you exactly what it is that I'm supposed NOT to believe, and I'll engage in that argument.


But we are in agreement, Universalchiro and I, when it comes to the actual Bibliical evidence of God's existence. The Prophecies, the Historical artifacts, The great events of the Bible such as Noah's Flood. All of these fool proof arguments have been and are being presented and agreed upon for the Existence of God by Universalchiro and myself. As well as in Science, the so called Vestigial Organs, The Falsehood of the Sedimentary Geological Column and not to mention the fact of that Human DNA is simply just waaayyyy to complicated to have evolved all on it's own and must have had a designer. A God. All of this evidence is what you would wish, would just go away. Or the topic changed.

This evidence is of course is rejected by atheist such as yourself and instead a debate on the belief of the creation of the Universe is put in it's place. The debate over how the universe was created does not lay to rest the evidence of the existence of God. The debate over the origin of the Universe does how ever reinforces the fact that we both believe that it was God who exist and created the universe. The debate places us both in agreement that God is.

As to "what not to believe," lets try discussing how any cell simply evolves all on it's own and how this is evidence that God does not exist? Let's talk DNA!

youtube]DkLrAHUeeB8[/youtube]


Y'all are in agreement based on the same evidence except of course when you're not in agreement. Makes so much sense!
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:54 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:The theory of evolution states that complex life forms evolved from simpler life forms. The Video explains how this could not happen because any part or an organism (according to evolution), that is not functional gets weeded right out. So to say that our modern cell evolved from simpler one is a contradiction in terms because it would not be allow to evolve by the process of natural selection

I don't think this is an entirely accurate description of the mechanics of evolution, but I'll leave the discussion to those who want to discuss, since I'll be going back to Star Trek gifs.


--Andy



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Re:

Postby tzor on Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:19 pm

2dimes wrote:I wonder about translational issues there too. Day 1 has light, then Day 4 has light.


One way to look at it is to divide the 6 days into two groups of three. The first group creates the regions and the second the rulers for the regions with man at the end ruling everything.

Code: Select all
The chapter highlights the goodness of creation and the divine desire that human beings share in that goodness. God brings an orderly universe out of primordial chaos merely by uttering a word. In the literary structure of six days, the creation events in the first three days are related to those in the second three.

1. light (day)/darkness (night)   = 4. sun/moon
2. arrangement of water           = 5. fish + birds from waters
3. a) dry land                    = 6. a) animals
   b) vegetation                       b) human beings: male/female

The seventh day, on which God rests, the climax of the account, falls outside the six-day structure.
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Re: Re:

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:12 am

tzor wrote:
2dimes wrote:I wonder about translational issues there too. Day 1 has light, then Day 4 has light.


One way to look at it is to divide the 6 days into two groups of three. The first group creates the regions and the second the rulers for the regions with man at the end ruling everything.

Code: Select all
The chapter highlights the goodness of creation and the divine desire that human beings share in that goodness. God brings an orderly universe out of primordial chaos merely by uttering a word. In the literary structure of six days, the creation events in the first three days are related to those in the second three.

1. light (day)/darkness (night)   = 4. sun/moon
2. arrangement of water           = 5. fish + birds from waters
3. a) dry land                    = 6. a) animals
   b) vegetation                       b) human beings: male/female

The seventh day, on which God rests, the climax of the account, falls outside the six-day structure.


God brings an orderly universe out of primordial chaos merely by uttering a word.


OK, But where did the "Primordial Chaos" come from?

Did God create the Universe in Chaos or could the universe and the earth had been caused to become this way?

If God created the universe in Chaos, then why would he want to? What possible reason would God have for creating Chaos?

Is Chaos what "all" the angels (the sons of God Job 38:7) shouted in praise towards God when He created the earth (in Chaos)?
[Note] After that first week, we see Satan is a serpent in the garden of Eden tempting Adam and Eve from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

So was Satan created "From the beginning" as evil or did he become that way at some point? If So when did he become evil? When was the fall of Lucifer?

Would not either a perfect creation or a creation of Chaos tell us a lot about the character or perfectness of God in and through His creation?

These are all questions that the "Gap Story" actually answers.
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Re: Re:

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:26 am

Viceroy63 wrote:OK, But where did the "Primordial Chaos" come from?

Did God create the Universe in Chaos or could the universe and the earth had been caused to become this way?

If God created the universe in Chaos, then why would he want to? What possible reason would God have for creating Chaos?


Dude, isn't this one of those "you can't understand God because you're not omnipotent" things? I mean...seriously. You like to use that on others, how about you use it on yourself?

Viceroy63 wrote:These are all questions that the "Gap Story" actually answers.


The "Gap Story" isn't even a good story, never mind a documentary one.
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Re: Re:

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:52 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:OK, But where did the "Primordial Chaos" come from?

Did God create the Universe in Chaos or could the universe and the earth had been caused to become this way?

If God created the universe in Chaos, then why would he want to? What possible reason would God have for creating Chaos?


Dude, isn't this one of those "you can't understand God because you're not omnipotent" things? I mean...seriously. You like to use that on others, how about you use it on yourself?

Viceroy63 wrote:These are all questions that the "Gap Story" actually answers.


The "Gap Story" isn't even a good story, never mind a documentary one.


I already know the answers to these questions. I am just putting this out there for people to ponder.

Because if the Chaos already existed "In the Beginning" when God created the heaven and the earth, then the six day Creation is not the "From the Beginning" But "A beginning" And that is what the Gap Theory postulates. This would mean that science is correct in a Universe that is billions of years old and Yet God did create or recreate the Heavens and the Earth 6,000 years ago and made it all like new.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:21 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
zimmah wrote:the reason why he is allowing all of this to happen is to prove a point,

It is hard to imagine inscribing human personification like this.


--Andy


Oh, look. He or She is just making a point:


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(from a website called "turnbacktogod.com". What shite! What an awful use of religion!)


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Image


Surely, God or Whatever is making a point about these victims in refugee camps!

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INB4 cairo says, "Well obviously they sinned, which is why god punishes them--just like the slaves and the oppressed peoples of the world!"
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:25 pm

BBS, the flaw with all your pictures is I am pretty sure none of those people worship the right god.


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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:47 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:BBS, the flaw with all your pictures is I am pretty sure none of those people worship the right god.


--Andy


I prefer the left god. My special book says that he's totes awesome and that all other gods--especially right ones--are false.
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Re: Re:

Postby waauw on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:19 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:OK, But where did the "Primordial Chaos" come from?

Did God create the Universe in Chaos or could the universe and the earth had been caused to become this way?

If God created the universe in Chaos, then why would he want to? What possible reason would God have for creating Chaos?


Dude, isn't this one of those "you can't understand God because you're not omnipotent" things? I mean...seriously. You like to use that on others, how about you use it on yourself?

Viceroy63 wrote:These are all questions that the "Gap Story" actually answers.


The "Gap Story" isn't even a good story, never mind a documentary one.


I already know the answers to these questions. I am just putting this out there for people to ponder.

Because if the Chaos already existed "In the Beginning" when God created the heaven and the earth, then the six day Creation is not the "From the Beginning" But "A beginning" And that is what the Gap Theory postulates. This would mean that science is correct in a Universe that is billions of years old and Yet God did create or recreate the Heavens and the Earth 6,000 years ago and made it all like new.


You already know or you already believe? Because knowing implies that there is 0% chance of you being wrong and that you have indisputable evidence to proove it, evidence that you can not only proove philosophical, but also through scientific data.

You yourself came here with evidences supporting the fact that the current dating systems might be wrong, but what you didn't do was come with proof of a revised correct dating system.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby waauw on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:22 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:BBS, the flaw with all your pictures is I am pretty sure none of those people worship the right god.


--Andy


I prefer the left god. My special book says that he's totes awesome and that all other gods--especially right ones--are false.


Is that the one offering you to sit next to a nice warm fire or the one that makes live up high where it's cold?
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Re: Re:

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:20 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:OK, But where did the "Primordial Chaos" come from?

Did God create the Universe in Chaos or could the universe and the earth had been caused to become this way?

If God created the universe in Chaos, then why would he want to? What possible reason would God have for creating Chaos?


Dude, isn't this one of those "you can't understand God because you're not omnipotent" things? I mean...seriously. You like to use that on others, how about you use it on yourself?


I already know the answers to these questions.


So you're arrogant enough to believe you understand the mind of God? You don't have a lot of self-reflection skills, do you?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby universalchiro on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:12 pm

crispybits wrote:Genesis 1 (NIV)

Day 1 - Light (day/night)
Day 2 - Sky
Day 3 - Solid ground (land/sea) & Plants
Day 4 - Sun/Moon (Genesis 1:16 says: "God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night.")
Day 5 - Birds and Fish
Day 6 - Land Animals and People
Day 7 - Rest

Genesis 1 is based on earlier Mesopotamian creation myths, Genesis 2 is based on earlier proto-Judaic creation myths. Take your pick (and amusing when Viceroy and universalchiro claim there are no contradictions in the bible that during the first 2 chapters of the very first book we find plenty)
Your rendering of the text and interpretation is only enjoyed by your ilk. Those who have an understanding of the Bible will quickly take your conjecture apart.

You can't come to the Bible with already formed hatred of God and His word, having no objectivity, people who do that, their own words reveal that their faith that there is no God has blinded them and left them mentally catatonic when objective opportunities arise. Nonetheless, The hammers of criticism have come against the Bible to test it, to try to break it. but as the hammers lie in rubble, the anvil of the Bible remains faithfully the word of God, without errors, without contradiction and is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

For those who may be fooled by a heavily biased and non-objective rendering of the Genesis account of creation from a staunch atheist; here is light on the Truth of God:

Genesis 1 & 2 is a non-fiction. It is God's own testimony of what He did, written through Moses. Often authors will use a general overview first, then give detail, then go back in time to give further details. It's simply a literary style. Moses is not the only writer in the Bible to do so. John the author of Revelation did the same style.

Moses gives a general overview of the entire creation account with Chapter 1, verse 1: " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Then Moses goes into details about the general overview with Verses 2- : Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

Chapter 2:
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
Adam and Eve

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

That completes the details of the general overview. Now Moses goes back in time through the narrative to add more details. Such as birds and animals were formed out of the ground. And Eve was formed out of Adams rib.

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame."


Even the earliest of human civilization stand a testimony that humans did not evolve from apes, that there was a creation.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby universalchiro on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:33 pm

crispybits wrote:
universalchiro wrote:You of all religions should least judge, for an atheist has arbitrary standards. Values based on nothing. For to you there is no God.




Firstly, atheism is not a rleigion


Atheism is not a religion? You must be joking?

Religion: [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion] Look at the definition of religion.
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
I, crispybits, do solemnly swear that I believe there is no god.
I, crispybits, will faithfully post in Conquer Club that I am a professing Atheist.
I, crispybits, will uphold dutifully the creeds set out by other atheist: I will say there is no god, I will poke fun at those who do believe in a god, I will cause as many to doubt in God and I will cause as many as possible to convert to my beliefs, with extreme ardor, and I will faithfully be wholly dedicated to this cause. Amen.
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Re: Re:

Postby tzor on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:55 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
God brings an orderly universe out of primordial chaos merely by uttering a word.


OK, But where did the "Primordial Chaos" come from?


First of all, that's not my quote. Second it's not "Primordial Chaos" ... "the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters"

The abyss: the primordial ocean according to the ancient Semitic cosmogony. After God’s creative activity, part of this vast body forms the salt-water seas (vv. 9–10); part of it is the fresh water under the earth (Ps 33:7; Ez 31:4), which wells forth on the earth as springs and fountains (Gn 7:11; 8:2; Prv 3:20). Part of it, “the upper water” (Ps 148:4; Dn 3:60), is held up by the dome of the sky (vv. 6–7), from which rain descends on the earth (Gn 7:11; 2 Kgs 7:2, 19; Ps 104:13). A mighty wind: literally, “spirit or breath [ruah] of God”; cf. Gn 8:1.


Have you ever heard of a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster? "Its effects are similar to having your brains smashed in by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick." Yes this is a spiritual Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster. It is a foretaste of what would happen under Christ ...

John 3:1-8 wrote:Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. He came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”

Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”

Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’ The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


Water and Spirit, that is to say the Holy Spirit of God, and the "Baptism" of creation!

This is, probably the biggest difference between me and you Viceroy. You treat the Genesis story like a High School text book, while I treat it as something deeper and more complex than a post doctoral thesis.

I am also reminded of the old star trek (next generation but that's old these days) episode where humans were called "bags of mostly water." Because that is what we are. Animated by breath.

Water and "Spirit." That is how the world is born.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby tzor on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:57 pm

universalchiro wrote:Atheism is not a religion? You must be joking?


One could argue strong atheism is; one has a harder case for weak atheism and one has no case for Gnosticism.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby tzor on Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:03 pm

universalchiro wrote:Your rendering of the text and interpretation is only enjoyed by your ilk. Those who have an understanding of the Bible will quickly take your conjecture apart.


You mean the interpretation of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church? The "Pillar and Bulwark of Truth?"

You know this is OUR BIBLE. We would like it back, please. No twisting of scriptures to your own damnation as Peter writes in his letters for you!

John 4:22 wrote:You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, ...
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby waauw on Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:08 pm

universalchiro wrote:
crispybits wrote:
universalchiro wrote:You of all religions should least judge, for an atheist has arbitrary standards. Values based on nothing. For to you there is no God.




Firstly, atheism is not a rleigion


Atheism is not a religion? You must be joking?

Religion: [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion] Look at the definition of religion.
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
I, crispybits, do solemnly swear that I believe there is no god.
I, crispybits, will faithfully post in Conquer Club that I am a professing Atheist.
I, crispybits, will uphold dutifully the creeds set out by other atheist: I will say there is no god, I will poke fun at those who do believe in a god, I will cause as many to doubt in God and I will cause as many as possible to convert to my beliefs, with extreme ardor, and I will faithfully be wholly dedicated to this cause. Amen.


I agree that atheism for some people can be more of a beliefsystem rather than rational thinking, as not every atheist likes to research facts before thinking.
But atheism is very different from the major religions. Atheism is not standardized. It does not require people to believe specific theories. Even though a lot of atheists are also evolutionists, it is not a requirement.
Atheism is also not institutionalized nor organized. Atheists usually don't come together somewhere to share their thoughts with like-minded people(internet being the exception though). This lack of organization makes it more individualist than the major religions, who have all the characteristics of being collectivist.

It is for this reason that I don't think atheism can be characterized as a religion.

Oxford Dictionary wrote:Definition of religion
noun
[mass noun]The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:ideas about the relationship between science and religion
  • [count noun] a particular system of faith and worship:the world’s great religions
  • [count noun] a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:consumerism is the new religion

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/religion?q=religion

According to the oxford dictionary, atheism is not a religion according to the most widely accepted definition of the word. It can only be compared to the description in the last line.
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