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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:15 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
oVo wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Socialism has failed. Long live freedom.

Did you mean empathy has failed, long live Corporate Democracy?
We deserve the best government that money can buy.


I think the insurance companies would take umbrage with both of your statements. They stand to gain a great deal of new customers with the Affordable Care Act.


Customers who were previously excluded by the same insurance companies because they were likely to be a net loss for the insurance company. They did not want those customers unless they were able to actually pay the premiums that would offset their higher risk.


What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:01 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
oVo wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Socialism has failed. Long live freedom.

Did you mean empathy has failed, long live Corporate Democracy?
We deserve the best government that money can buy.


I think the insurance companies would take umbrage with both of your statements. They stand to gain a great deal of new customers with the Affordable Care Act.


Customers who were previously excluded by the same insurance companies because they were likely to be a net loss for the insurance company. They did not want those customers unless they were able to actually pay the premiums that would offset their higher risk.


What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Even if (B) occurs, I don't know if that means that insurance companies come out ahead on average; there are too many variables. Surely someone out there has looked into this though.
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:14 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
oVo wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Socialism has failed. Long live freedom.

Did you mean empathy has failed, long live Corporate Democracy?
We deserve the best government that money can buy.


I think the insurance companies would take umbrage with both of your statements. They stand to gain a great deal of new customers with the Affordable Care Act.


Customers who were previously excluded by the same insurance companies because they were likely to be a net loss for the insurance company. They did not want those customers unless they were able to actually pay the premiums that would offset their higher risk.


What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Even if (B) occurs, I don't know if that means that insurance companies come out ahead on average; there are too many variables. Surely someone out there has looked into this though.


Saxi was our point man on all the Obama/insurance company slumber parties. The one's that come out ahead will be the one's that played ball and got special waivers. Winners (AARP) and losers are picked by the government buddy system. Given the level of corruption and lies we now know run rampant in the Obama adminstration, that should shed some light on what kind of CEO's that attracts business to.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:33 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Saxi was our point man on all the Obama/insurance company slumber parties.


:(
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby oVo on Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:04 am

thegreekdog wrote:What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Well, previously the un-insured's hospital bills were totally paid with tax dollars. The Affordable Care Act will at least has more contributors to health care and with the potential of more people getting preventative treatment --not waiting until conditions require an Emergency Room-- which could create huge savings in health costs.

btw... a friend just signed up for the Silver Plan (in Texas) with basic coverage at $13.75 a month with a dental plan for an additional $12.50.
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:32 am

oVo wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Well, previously the un-insured's hospital bills were totally paid with tax dollars. The Affordable Care Act will at least has more contributors to health care and with the potential of more people getting preventative treatment --not waiting until conditions require an Emergency Room-- which could create huge savings in health costs.

btw... a friend just signed up for the Silver Plan (in Texas) with basic coverage at $13.75 a month with a dental plan for an additional $12.50.


Okay, first, uninsureds' hospital bills were not totally paid with tax dollars dudemeister. Charitable care is a regular expense for hospitals.

Second, who do you think is going to pay for the previously uninsured hospital bills now? The magic money tree?

Third, oh yeah, we have to pay even more tax dollars to have the Admistration of Health and the Hospital Committee and the Internet Doesn't Work Right Now Board.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:42 am

13.75 a month is 165 per year. thats a true bargain. get one x-ray and its paid for itself. i love our govt. with all these savings i can work less now. money seems kind of so 1990's.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:20 am

I'm okay with paying for someone else's healthcare. I just don't think the government needs to be involved.

I really just want a thank you note on one particular item.

"TGD,

On behalf of the people who purchased homes they could not afford, defaulted on their mortgages, and got away pretty much scott free, thanks. On behalf of the banks who made poor investments, thanks.

Your friend,

Government

P.S. Thanks for helping us bomb the shit out of other countries."
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:07 am

......and we assure you, we strive daily to maximize the potential of every tax dollar received to greater improve the functions of our great nation.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:10 am

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:......and we assure you, we strive daily to maximize the potential of every tax dollar received to greater improve the functions of our great nation.


Awesome.

500 Saxbucks.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:43 am

thegreekdog wrote:
500 Saxbucks.


sweet :D
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby oVo on Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:57 am

thegreekdog wrote:Okay, first, uninsureds' hospital bills were not totally paid with tax dollars dudemeister. Charitable care is a regular expense for hospitals.
A large hunk of my property tax goes to Parkland Hospital. The line is long, but it's the place to go in this county if you have no health insurance and need a doctor. It's also a fine Hospital with an excellent staff and facilities...
and where President Kennedy was taken fifty years ago.
Did Jack have a decent health insurance plan?
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby Night Strike on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:00 pm

oVo wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Well, previously the un-insured's hospital bills were totally paid with tax dollars. The Affordable Care Act will at least has more contributors to health care and with the potential of more people getting preventative treatment --not waiting until conditions require an Emergency Room-- which could create huge savings in health costs.


Where do you think they'll be going when the lines are too long for appointments with primary care doctors and even specialists?

oVo wrote:btw... a friend just signed up for the Silver Plan (in Texas) with basic coverage at $13.75 a month with a dental plan for an additional $12.50.


What's the real cost of the plan, not the subsidized price?
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby Symmetry on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:36 pm

Night Strike wrote:
oVo wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Well, previously the un-insured's hospital bills were totally paid with tax dollars. The Affordable Care Act will at least has more contributors to health care and with the potential of more people getting preventative treatment --not waiting until conditions require an Emergency Room-- which could create huge savings in health costs.


Where do you think they'll be going when the lines are too long for appointments with primary care doctors and even specialists?

oVo wrote:btw... a friend just signed up for the Silver Plan (in Texas) with basic coverage at $13.75 a month with a dental plan for an additional $12.50.


What's the real cost of the plan, not the subsidized price?


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the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:56 pm

oVo wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Well, previously the un-insured's hospital bills were totally paid with tax dollars.


Just wondering:
How many hospitals are reimbursed for such bills?

And how many simply write it off as a loss without being compensated by the government?
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:33 pm

Obama Revokes Obamacare of Woman He Cites as Obamacare Success Story - Woman Now Without Healthcare ... Prepared to Die on Street Like a Dog if She Gets Sicks

Looks like Obama did it again.

... after Obama mentioned her story, Sanford started having problems ... her monthly insurance bill had shot up from $198 a month to $280 a month for the same "gold" plan offered by the state exchange.

Last week, Sanford received another letter from the Washington state exchange, stating there had been another problem, a "system error" that resulted in some "applicants to qualify for higher than allowed health insurance premium tax credits." The result was a higher quote, which Sanford said was for $390 per month for a "silver" plan with a higher deductible.

Then another letter from the state exchange with even worse news.

"Your household has been determined eligible for a Federal Tax Credit of $0.00 to help cover the cost of your monthly health insurance premium payments," the latest letter said.

"I had a good cry," Sanford said about her reaction to the latest news from the state.

"This is it. I'm not getting insurance," Sanford told CNN.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... =allsearch


Thanks, Obama.

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viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:42 pm

ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz


I may switch sides and become pro-Obamacare after reading this.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Ted Cruz

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:51 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Obama Revokes Obamacare of Woman He Cites as Obamacare Success Story - Woman Now Without Healthcare ... Prepared to Die on Street Like a Dog if She Gets Sicks


So it looks like Obama has decided to rub it in this woman's face whose health care he cancelled by flaunting all his money just miles from where she lives while letting this poor woman get treated at a free clinic with used syringes and recycled exam gloves ...

On Sunday afternoon, Obama is scheduled to headline a “discussion” at the North Seattle home of Sonya and Tom Campion, according to an invitation circulated in local Democratic circles.

The price tag for that event is $20,000 per person. Tom Campion is co-founder of youth-clothing chain Zumiez.

Later Sunday, Obama is scheduled to attend a dinner and cocktail reception at the Medina home of former Microsoft executive Jon Shirley.

The cost is $16,200 per person (or $32,400 per couple), with donors getting a receiving-line photo with the president.

It’s the second time in the last few years that Shirley has hosted Obama at his 27,000-square-foot home on the shores of Lake Washington.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... lexml.html


... just one ticket to Obama's "discussion" could pay for the health care of the woman whose health insurance he cancelled for 5 years. But he can't even spare $1. Really, the definition of a sociopath.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Republicans

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:39 am

Typical. They only support Obamacare with other people's money, but won't put up a dollar of their own.

Young invincibles not buying into Obamacare

LOS ANGELES, November 23, 2013 — After President Obama’s backpeddle on the cancellation of individual insurance policies, the administration has regrouped with guns blazing. According to Thursday’s Politico, Obama held an “off-the-record” meeting with liberal reporters and bloggers including MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell, Washington Post’s Ezra Klein, and Fox News contributor Juan Williams.

Williams appeared on the Fox News program “The Five” and said he couldn’t reveal the president’s remarks, but would give the context of the meeting. The goal of the meeting was to discuss how to get control of the messaging on the Affordable Care Act. Williams described the administration to be in “full fight mode”.

Earlier this year, Obama had taken full ownership of the “Obamacare” brand and used it freely when discussing the ACA. Now when Obama and the Democrats talk about the law, the “Obamacare” label has been replaced with the law’s actual name.

One of the rules of successful branding is that you change the name to reform the image, but a poorly drafted law by any other name still stinks to high heaven. Those cancelled insurance policies cannot be reinstated, the president and his administration still lied about it, and insurance companies are still going to charge more in order to comply with the provisions of Obamacare and try to keep their industry afloat.

“Blame the Republicans” is one of the strategies making a comeback. Dana Milbank of the Washington Post must have received the memo, because he penned a piece on Tuesday doing just that. Milbank accuses Republicans of using a “scary-movie strategy” to keep the young and healthy from signing up on the exchanges.

“The Republicans’ scary-movie strategy has some logic to it: If they can frighten young and healthy people from joining the health-care exchanges, the exchanges will become expensive and unmanageable. This is sabotage, plain and simple — much like the refusal by red-state governors to participate in setting up the exchanges in the first place. But those sabotaging the new law should be careful what they wish for: Instead of killing the law, they are likely to make it more expensive to taxpayers.”

Young people are staying away without any help from the Republicans. Obamacare has already become more expensive for the taxpayer, particularly the 2-5 million who have lost, or are in the process of losing, their policies. Sticker shock is the order of the day on and off the exchanges, and with cancellations estimated in the 100 million from the employer-based insurance plans, the number of uninsured is likely to jump from the 30 million or so who were the original impetus behind the drafting and implementation of this law.

The hard numbers from the Covered California exchange were released on Thursday. While the progression reflected increased enrollment through November 19, out of 79,891 enrollees, only 22.5 percent of those can be placed in the 18-34 bracket. The lion’s share, the 45-64 age bracket, represents 39 percent of enrollments; many of those will end up on Medi-Cal, the state sponsored medical insurance arm. Should the trend of low enrollments among the young and healthy continue, the guarantee of subsidizing the old and unhealthy will fail, and the industry will implode upon itself. Those are not scare tactics, but cold, hard facts. The administration’s goal is to have 2.7 million young and healthy signed onto the exchanges by the December 15 deadline. Good luck with that.

Forbes takes note of this skewed data, and points out that New York, the other populous state with its own exchange, is showing similar numbers.

“The problem, of course, is adverse selection,” Scott Gottlieb writes. “If only older, and by inference sicker individuals sign up for Obamacare, it will force the program’s costs – and in turn premiums – to rise. This will further discourage the younger, healthier members that the administration needs to enroll into Obamacare to make the scheme viable.”

The assumption of the Obama administration and Milbank is that young people are easily manipulated. This is most apparent in the amount of money being poured into marketing toward this demographic.

Yesterday, Los Angeles radio host Hugh Hewitt interviewed Covered California deputy director of communications Dana Howard. Howard said that $190 million was allotted toward the marketing of Covered California, but Howard could not — or would not — give hard numbers on how much money had already been spent, or supply any verifiable data on how many of the current enrollees could be matched to any Covered California marketing.

Back in October of 2012, the Department of Health and Human Services signed a $3 million deal with a public relations firm to promote the health insurance exchanges. Then in April, they inked another deal with another PR firm to the tune of an additional 8 million. Hollywood celebrities have gleefully cut ads encouraging the young to sign up. How’s all that PR working so far? The numbers tell the tale.

The debacle of the federal exchange rollout notwithstanding, the numbers do not bear out that this marketing is having any discernible effect. The young invincibles still aren’t buying into the scheme. The numbers from the California and New York exchanges, the law’s flagship test cases for the entire nation, could well be a harbinger of what the federal exchange numbers will look like once it is actually up and running.

The organization Young Invincibles glibly states that it is dedicated to expanding economic opportunities for young people. But its co-founder and executive director Aaron Smith is more focused on selling Obamacare to his peers. Smith penned an op-ed on CNN touting why Millennials should be signing up for the exchanges, and criticizing Generation Opportunities, a conservative group of Millennials who are encouraging their peers to opt out.

“Prior to the Affordable Care Act’s passage, too many Americans relied on lousy coverage not even worthy of the term insurance,” Smith writes. He continues the blatant lie the president tried a few weeks ago about “junk insurance.” This papier maché argument fell apart, as the insured pushed back, pointing out how the policies they had and that are now cancelled were exactly what they needed. Smith continues in his spin:

“In an effort to provide consumers with greater financial security, the Department of Health and Human Services identified 10 essential health benefits that all plans on HealthCare.gov must offer consumers. These benefits, like maternity and newborn care, prescription drug and mental health coverage, are particularly important to young people.”

These benefits are not so important to menopausal women, single men, or couples who choose not to have children. Being forced to pay hundreds more for services we neither need nor want is not a good marketing ploy, and only serves to annoy the young and old alike.

Both the Heritage Foundation and Investors Business Daily warned early on that this law would be the young man’s and young woman’s burden to bear. In August, the National Center for Public Policy Research showed that 18-34 year-olds could actually save at least $500.00 a year by opting out of the exchanges and paying the penalty. If it’s the difference between their needs and covering someone else’s maternity care, there’s little doubt which avenue the young will choose.

Generation Opportunity is most notable for their creepy Uncle Sam spots pointing out the government’s intrusion into health care. Reports on the conservative group are quick to point out the extremism of their views. They are a “right-wing front group” funded by the Koch Brothers, and therefore inherently suspect and evil.

The press given to Young Invincibles is often complimentary, with terms like “non-partisan” and “grassroots” layered like frosting on cake. Young Invincibles receives financial backing from Deepak Bhargava, a former lobbyist to the corrupt and mostly defunct ACORN, and now the current director of Center for Community Change.

Aaron Smith has been active in liberal politics for the balance of his young years, most recently as a staffer to Democrat Representative Chris Van Hollen. So this double standard of downplaying or ignoring the political leanings of one Millennial group while condemning and spotlighting the leanings of another is downright deceptive. Caveat emptor.

Only time will tell if young people fall in line with the indentured servitude peddled by the government, or continue to steer away for the sake of their own health and future.


http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... obamacare/
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:07 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
oVo wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:What do you think is more likely?

(A) Insurance companies eat the net loss.
(B) Insurance companies raise prices on the other customers.


Well, previously the un-insured's hospital bills were totally paid with tax dollars. The Affordable Care Act will at least has more contributors to health care and with the potential of more people getting preventative treatment --not waiting until conditions require an Emergency Room-- which could create huge savings in health costs.

btw... a friend just signed up for the Silver Plan (in Texas) with basic coverage at $13.75 a month with a dental plan for an additional $12.50.


Okay, first, uninsureds' hospital bills were not totally paid with tax dollars dudemeister. Charitable care is a regular expense for hospitals.

And where do you think the bulk of that funding is from?

Hint-- it is not voluntary donations.

thegreekdog wrote:Second, who do you think is going to pay for the previously uninsured hospital bills now? The magic money tree?

The BIGGEST savings, by far comes because those with insurance (now supposed to be everyone) don't use emergency rooms as primary care facilities.

Second, costs will be more spread out. Not everyone enrolling is sick or will get sick. Their funds are combined -- insurance, instead of just those who get sick going bankrupt or falling onto charity.

There are other points, but this law, in and of itself, was never designed to cure all healthcare issues, just make some slight improvements. Mostly, it has.
thegreekdog wrote:

Third, oh yeah, we have to pay even more tax dollars to have the Admistration of Health and the Hospital Committee and the Internet Doesn't Work Right Now Board.

The internet site is a failure.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Republicans

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:34 pm

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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Republicans

Postby Symmetry on Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:43 pm

Phatscotty wrote:


Nobody is going to sit through 48 minutes of Tom Cruise and Spike Lee.
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Republicans

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:56 pm

Symmetry, why did you vote awesome?
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Re: ObamaCare - 84% of Democrats Now Agree with Republicans

Postby Symmetry on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:02 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Symmetry, why did you vote awesome?


Haven't voted yet, Top Gun was ages ago. As it's Thanksgiving though you can be my wing-man anytime. Until I find you tedious, of course.
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Re: Ted Cruz is an idiot

Postby Night Strike on Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:33 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Okay, first, uninsureds' hospital bills were not totally paid with tax dollars dudemeister. Charitable care is a regular expense for hospitals.

And where do you think the bulk of that funding is from?

Hint-- it is not voluntary donations.


It comes from church groups, etc. who run non-profit hospitals and want to keep their non-profit status. A certain amount of their care must be charitable rather than for charge. But Obamacare severely limits the amount of charitable care that can be given out, which will only work to RAISE health care prices and limits the ability of those hospitals to care for those in need.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Second, who do you think is going to pay for the previously uninsured hospital bills now? The magic money tree?

The BIGGEST savings, by far comes because those with insurance (now supposed to be everyone) don't use emergency rooms as primary care facilities.


And where will those people go when the lines for primary care physicians are too long? Or when the issue they want to talk about is not included in the "free" yearly visit and they have to schedule another visit?

PLAYER57832 wrote:Second, costs will be more spread out. Not everyone enrolling is sick or will get sick. Their funds are combined -- insurance, instead of just those who get sick going bankrupt or falling onto charity.


Socialism is great! Make EVERYONE pay more so that a few people don't have to. Is it better to be bankrupt but alive or leaving the heirs a bunch of money after death? Because those are the two extremes under the free market vs socialist systems.
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