The Village of Secrets [GAME OVER] Werewolves Win!

[spiesr]

2) would jonty still claim town vig if it's being widely considered that there are multi non town killing factions knowing that the vig claim may not relieve some of the pressure on him?

The best answer I can think of is that he wasn't keeping some of the numbers in mind when he made the claim. Vig can be a tempting fake claim. The Vig's typically actions (of doing nothing or killing something) are a seemingly easy way for a scum member (without special actions) to explain anything a watcher or tracker might see them doing.

Anyway, I am still trying to decide if I think the information we have suggests there being multiple non-town factions with probable access to night kills or not.

[superkeener]

Official Vote Count 1.6

Anarkistsdream (0):
HotShot53 (1): spiesr
Iron Butterfly (0):
jak111 (0):
Jmac1026 (0):
jonty125 (5): X-Stor-X, Whatsausage, Roger Dodger, Anarkistsdream, Lootifer
kgb007 (0):
Lootifer (0):
MudPuppy (1): virus90,
rishaed (0):
Roger Dodger (3): Iron Butterfly, Jmac1026, jonty125
spiesr (0):
virus90 (0):
Whatsausage (0):
X-Stor-X (0):

No Lynch (4): rishaed, jak111, MudPuppy, kgb007

Not Voting: HotShot53

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch. If 8 votes are not reached by the deadline, then the first player with 6+ votes will be lynched.

Deadline for Day 1 is: Thursday, April 03, 2014.

[superkeener]

a few inactivity notices have been sent.

[Roger Dodger]

Inactivity?

[superkeener]

I meant, that I have have sent some notices to those who have not posted in the past 4-5 days.

[rishaed]

I am here and reading, but my stance hasn't changed since I placed my last vote. Some good arguments, but not convincing enough for me yet.

[jonty125]

Firstly, Roger Dodger, has refused to even acknowledge, the question I asked middle of page 13, which I've mentioned a few times now, skimming a little??

This is @jonty, in addition to what ever you do to defend yourself, i would be interested in someone you would like to push for. Someone you find scummy. Maybe someone who bandwagon on you? Maybe a quiet person? Maybe the loud person. Either way i'm interested in your opinion on the matter. Something original.

Wasn't my case on jak original enough, but in other news until Rodger Dodger stops skimming, I would like her to be given a push.

I think its wrong to say the "majority of votes" When half the votes against you are for different reasons than my original case. I also find the comment "trying to change my meta" contradicting the original defense of "this is and isn't against my meta"

so that means the other half *cough* a majority *cough* are on the original case.

Why not post a simple link to a game where you mimic this behavior?

because I can't find it, and it was at least a year back, or at least the incident I'm thinking of is.

Also note that jonty did hit his claim target at L-2 and failed to claim on time. (it is pointed out, and he does claim)

One of them votes was a jokevote, and was unvoted when I arrived at L-2, I'm fairly sure I've already said this. I was then put at L-2, seriously, and then claimed.

Since then he really hasn't been contributing to progress of town.

Yes, because I've been defending and town were very interested in "progressing" towards a claim from me, if I had tried to construct a case, it would of shrugged off as deflection.

[Jmac1026]

I find this case on Jonty fairly ridiculous. As far as I can see, his lynch is being advocated because he's being very active? And that's somehow against his meta (which is an absolutely ridiculous sole reason to lynch someone). The lynch is being pushed by an extremely vocal minority. Roger Dodger (who's looking extremely scummy) because vig is a danger to town? Yeah, so are several other roles I could think of. That doesn't mean we should lynch based on that. Jonty has said that he won't kill tonight, and if there are multiple kills, then we may look at that.

Personally, the fact that Roger Dodger has been completely neglecting to answer any of the inquiries pushed onto her makes her much more suspicious in my eyes. The fact that anarkist and x-stor-x are pushing for a lynch of Jonty but think RD's behavior is not worth a look at? Very suspicious. I'd be interesting to see how she flips, and then we could use that to judge both of them a little closer.

My vote stays on Roger Dodger.

[StorrZerg]

I am here and reading, but my stance hasn't changed since I placed my last vote. Some good arguments, but not convincing enough for me yet.

in other words this adds NOTHING for ANYONE.

if something was good, you should be specific about it. Does that make the person who made the argument town ? or mafia? in your own words. YOU NEED to contribute with YOUR OWN content. to just come in and say this line of bull helps no one.

[rishaed]

Do you believe in magic? Based on how the lynch goes for day 1, (if mafia flips) then we have several people that look super town for how hard they pushed on scum. If the lynch flips town. Then we have information and get to see who was really pushing for right reasons, who had shit reasons etc. If we no lynch and lets say 1 random dies or 3 random dies. you are depending at that point on a role claim from another town to lead day 2. I say that play is overly risky with lack of reward. A lynch forces discussion it forces opinions. This is good for town.

This is what I think is a good argument, however it has been the only argument in this thread for not no lynching. However as Nark brings up, who then is a good lynch? I'm sure that Nark would not like to get lynched today as a claimed- VT. I'm also not willing to lynch Jonty if he is telling the truth, seeing as a good vig as I pointed out earlier, can act more efficiently that town during the day sometimes. And yes I, understand that this is only sometimes. On the other hand Im not extremely fond of the lets go after a random person and lynch them.

[StorrZerg]

Comments in blue

Firstly, Roger Dodger, has refused to even acknowledge, the question I asked middle of page 13, which I've mentioned a few times now, skimming a little??
sure she has been off

This is @jonty, in addition to what ever you do to defend yourself, i would be interested in someone you would like to push for. Someone you find scummy. Maybe someone who bandwagon on you? Maybe a quiet person? Maybe the loud person. Either way i'm interested in your opinion on the matter. Something original.

Wasn't my case on jak original enough, but in other news until Rodger Dodger stops skimming, I would like her to be given a push.
That was before the push, since you got pushed on you have shut down reading people. If you feel she is worth pushing, make a case and push her. Show it with confidence. You are on the chopping block and atm, acting way nonchalant about it.

I think its wrong to say the "majority of votes" When half the votes against you are for different reasons than my original case. I also find the comment "trying to change my meta" contradicting the original defense of "this is and isn't against my meta"

so that means the other half *cough* a majority *cough* are on the original case.
Actually at the time no. Only 2. first vote, LB "joke" anark different. and iirc jak different (if it wasn't him it was someone else) but to be picking at a vote or two at this point for choice of wording is petty.

Why not post a simple link to a game where you mimic this behavior?

because I can't find it, and it was at least a year back, or at least the incident I'm thinking of is.
how unfortunate

Also note that jonty did hit his claim target at L-2 and failed to claim on time. (it is pointed out, and he does claim)

One of them votes was a jokevote, and was unvoted when I arrived at L-2, I'm fairly sure I've already said this. I was then put at L-2, seriously, and then claimed.
Yet you had been at L-2, and came back with no concern (kinda like now)

Since then he really hasn't been contributing to progress of town.

Yes, because I've been defending and town were very interested in "progressing" towards a claim from me, if I had tried to construct a case, it would of shrugged off as deflection.

100% disagree. You making cases for people you find town or mafia personally will help me read you. I imagine others could come to conclusion based on how you presented your cases. (o wow i can totally agree with jonty that XPERSON is really playing town, specially with those 2 quotes because they showed X thing) The way you are defending yourself isn't doing anything for me. Because some of the accusations are "well i can't dispute that" "can't disprove that" or "well doing something productive would make me look scummy" I honestly see no passion from you, no concern. there is nothing that I can "feel" from you. I can't remember you in this game...

[StorrZerg]

Do you believe in magic? Based on how the lynch goes for day 1, (if mafia flips) then we have several people that look super town for how hard they pushed on scum. If the lynch flips town. Then we have information and get to see who was really pushing for right reasons, who had shit reasons etc. If we no lynch and lets say 1 random dies or 3 random dies. you are depending at that point on a role claim from another town to lead day 2. I say that play is overly risky with lack of reward. A lynch forces discussion it forces opinions. This is good for town.

This is what I think is a good argument, however it has been the only argument in this thread for not no lynching. However as Nark brings up, who then is a good lynch? I'm sure that Nark would not like to get lynched today as a claimed- VT. I'm also not willing to lynch Jonty if he is telling the truth, seeing as a good vig as I pointed out earlier, can act more efficiently that town during the day sometimes. And yes I, understand that this is only sometimes. On the other hand Im not extremely fond of the lets go after a random person and lynch them.

You have a brain, you know there are scum in this game. Finger someone. Give a reason. Or find someone you think is town. See who they finger, can you agree? can you ADD anything? You are not willing to lynch jonty if he is telling the truth, well if he is NOT the vig you would 100% lynch him, welcome to EVERYONE IN THIS GAMES OPINION. You have to form your OPINION ON JONTY. If you think he is town, express it explain his town qualities. At this point it would also help to push in another direction too. But to simply make the cop out of " o man can't lynch him if he telling the truth" dude no one fucking knows what he is spitting out. make your opinion heard.

[Roger Dodger]

As far as being on the chopping block, I believe in the end u guys will be like " I can't believe we lynched her. We make a big mistake" so with that said, I feel confident that my lynching would be a big blow. So, like Joan of Arc, I will let u sacrifice me in the name of feeling bad. Lol. Like I said in the later post. I don't care for vigilantism. I think it is criminal. I felt like I couldn't trust jonty and now it turns out he claims vigilante. No place in our village for a person who dispenses justice on his own. Too many mistakes can happen. I for one do not want to see an innocent die at his hands. I I Gin All I s aid it was a gut feeling nothing else. I guess my gut has been right all along. That is not scummy just truthful.

[Roger Dodger]

Doesn't anyone here watch NCIS? W hen Gibbs has a gut feeling he is always right. I know I'm right. I have no real reason just a feeling.

[spiesr]

Doesn't anyone here watch NCIS? W hen Gibbs has a gut feeling he is always right. I know I'm right. I have no real reason just a feeling.

Being right isn't worth much unless you can convince others to agree with you.

[StorrZerg]

correct being able to translate your feelings/ gut and put it on a lvl to which others can relate.

quote some posts and tell us what is off. what doesnt feel right to you, expain why.

you are not head leader, we do not fall to your wishes.

[Roger Dodger]

I never said I was a head leader. At this point, there is way too much to be reading back and doing the quote thing. All I am saying is a vigilante is not a good person to have in a town. That's all.

[jak111]

So I gave you guys 3 page break of me speaking my mind. Still seems we've made little to no progress.

I am gonna go ahead and FOS rishaed.

X-Stor-X is right, you're not giving your own reads on people and presenting your own ideas, just sheeping everyone and basically saying you can't make up your mind.

If everyone in the game begins claiming Vig and VT, your little work would do us no good later on.

@Jonty wagon, seriously, he's active enough to press for better info later on when we have more cards. Lynching him now does us LITTLE good. I think there's some scum on this wagon out of fear of being shot by Jonty if he really is town. Day 1 we need to weed out people who are not going to help us later on. Inactives namely; that do not help us get reads (both on them and others).

I personally say let Jonty live, he can soak up a kill or two tonight if the mafia fear him. If he isn't dead tomorrow then unless a doc was on him we might have to look into him a little more. With Jonty's claim out on the table, we can use it as a WIFOM in the night. Whether a doc will be on him, whether he will kill someone, etc etc. It will cause mafia to be hesitant tonight (or any other killing faction).

After all that explaining, I am turning my attention to the jonty wagon. Unvote, Vote Roger Dodger.

You're new blood, so let me explain. You're tripping up over 3 votes when there's 5 on Jonty and people are pushing for his LYNCH. Including you. You say something of off about Jonty, yet if you're new you do not know how Jonty plays. I think what's off is you among others want a claimed vig dead. To me, this is a fear lynch wagon.

Jonty said he'd not shoot in the night, but you/scum are afraid of him shooting and killing them before Day 2 begins. So it stands to that the mafia would want Jonty's head before he can use his role to potentially kill off their faction with no chance of defending and casting doubt like you can during the day phase.

FP'd by my vote.

Vig is actually one of town's most powerful roles. During my time on Epic Mafia, from what I've seen, a vig can truly wreck havoc for everyone if they're new, but if they're more experienced like Jonty, then they won't go off prematurely. (Seriously... on EM some guys shoot Night 1 when the game begins on Night 1, so that is 100% luck based XD)

[Roger Dodger]

So u choose to vote me? Def. A personal choice. I may not have played with most of u guys before but, that doesn't mean I have any history of being wrong either. Anyone else want to join in and lynch RD? As the game proceeds, even if I am gone, u will remember my feelings as being true. I am not here to convince anyone just stating my personal opinion.

[Roger Dodger]

Oh and just because he didn't kill anyone yet doesn't mean he won't wreck havoc on day 2 whether positive or negative. Vig is a strategic player. A schemer, probably stalking to figure out who to kill.

[jak111]

So u choose to vote me? Def. A personal choice. I may not have played with most of u guys before but, that doesn't mean I have any history of being wrong either. Anyone else want to join in and lynch RD? As the game proceeds, even if I am gone, u will remember my feelings as being true. I am not here to convince anyone just stating my personal opinion.

Being right isn't worth much unless you can convince others to agree with you.

Just pointing this out. Spiesr is right. It does not matter if you're right on your assumptions. This whole game is about convincing people one way or another. The power of persuasion. Even if you could call out all the mafia and 3rd party one one shot on Day 1, unless you can convince people that you're right, you're not going to win.

FP'd by RD

Seriously? Vigs can only kill at night, we have yet to go into Night 1...

[Whatsausage]

I'm sorry for being gone the last few days, I should be good for the next few and then kind of inactive this weekend again (hopefully better than this past weekend though)

Well it appears that jak has stolen my argument
As I was catching up, those were very similar to my thoughts. Maybe this is just how RD is, but she seems defensive even with little pressure. Saying things like "you'll regret losing me later" or "look back on what I've said and you'll find it all true". It seems like she has accepted her lynching to be a forgone conclusion. Is she making it too easy? (Jester type deal) Her case has also devolved into "trust me, I have a feeling" and "I don't like vigilantism" (Though the latter my be something with her NCIS reference?) She doesn't seem to be contributing much other than pushing to vote out the vig claim because she said so.

As for jonty, I'm not sure I believe the claim, however keeping him around for at least now could help the town. For example: if
1) He is telling the truth, then he is a pro-town power role
2) He is lying, and a Nilla scum, then he is safe from trackers at least for this night as he won't do anything
3) He is lying, the killing scum, then he either runs the risk of killing and us knowing, or those scum don't get a kill tonight
4) He is third party killer, say an SK, then he can just act like a vig until the scum are gone. This one is 50/50 in that he lied and is against town, but good in that he can't really risk going against the town until very late if even he makes it that far and then becomes an obvious lynch.

So only one of those four hurts the town for keeping him around today. It is likely that he is an easy night target if we have multiple scum with killing factions, so even if we don't trust him, the odds that he makes it to tomorrow are low. Of course then there is all kinds of doublethink that the sum could pull on us to lead us astray, but we should learn some tonight if we keep Jonty around.

So unvote vote roger dodger

[Whatsausage]

I'm sorry for being gone the last few days, I should be good for the next few and then kind of inactive this weekend again (hopefully better than this past weekend though)

Well it appears that jak has stolen my argument
As I was catching up, those were very similar to my thoughts. Maybe this is just how RD is, but she seems defensive even with little pressure. Saying things like "you'll regret losing me later" or "look back on what I've said and you'll find it all true". It seems like she has accepted her lynching to be a forgone conclusion. Is she making it too easy? (Jester type deal) Her case has also devolved into "trust me, I have a feeling" and "I don't like vigilantism" (Though the latter my be something with her NCIS reference?) She doesn't seem to be contributing much other than pushing to vote out the vig claim because she said so.

As for jonty, I'm not sure I believe the claim, however keeping him around for at least now could help the town. For example: if
1) He is telling the truth, then he is a pro-town power role
2) He is lying, and a Nilla scum, then he is safe from trackers at least for this night as he won't do anything
3) He is lying, the killing scum, then he either runs the risk of killing and us knowing, or those scum don't get a kill tonight
4) He is third party killer, say an SK, then he can just act like a vig until the scum are gone. This one is 50/50 in that he lied and is against town, but good in that he can't really risk going against the town until very late if even he makes it that far and then becomes an obvious lynch.

So only one of those four hurts the town for keeping him around today. It is likely that he is an easy night target if we have multiple scum with killing factions, so even if we don't trust him, the odds that he makes it to tomorrow are low. Of course then there is all kinds of doublethink that the sum could pull on us to lead us astray, but we should learn some tonight if we keep Jonty around.

So unvote vote roger dodger

[Whatsausage]

I'm sorry for being gone the last few days, I should be good for the next few and then kind of inactive this weekend again (hopefully better than this past weekend though)

Well it appears that jak has stolen my argument
As I was catching up, those were very similar to my thoughts. Maybe this is just how RD is, but she seems defensive even with little pressure. Saying things like "you'll regret losing me later" or "look back on what I've said and you'll find it all true". It seems like she has accepted her lynching to be a forgone conclusion. Is she making it too easy? (Jester type deal) Her case has also devolved into "trust me, I have a feeling" and "I don't like vigilantism" (Though the latter my be something with her NCIS reference?) She doesn't seem to be contributing much other than pushing to vote out the vig claim because she said so.

As for jonty, I'm not sure I believe the claim, however keeping him around for at least now could help the town. For example: if
1) He is telling the truth, then he is a pro-town power role
2) He is lying, and a Nilla scum, then he is safe from trackers at least for this night as he won't do anything
3) He is lying, the killing scum, then he either runs the risk of killing and us knowing, or those scum don't get a kill tonight
4) He is third party killer, say an SK, then he can just act like a vig until the scum are gone. This one is 50/50 in that he lied and is against town, but good in that he can't really risk going against the town until very late if even he makes it that far and then becomes an obvious lynch.

So only one of those four hurts the town for keeping him around today. It is likely that he is an easy night target if we have multiple scum with killing factions, so even if we don't trust him, the odds that he makes it to tomorrow are low. Of course then there is all kinds of doublethink that the sum could pull on us to lead us astray, but we should learn some tonight if we keep Jonty around.

So unvote vote roger dodger