jak111 wrote:Interesting that Mafia did not make a kill. (They did not kill their own surely).
If we have a roleblocker, you might wish to speak up, because I think you may have role-blocked the mafia that attempted to make their kill. (or any other role that could potentially stop the kill, unless doc, doc stays quiet).
Also, Anark's claim is either proved right or proved wrong, depending if there are multiples of the same name (Villager - VT). With no real names to go with them to tell them apart. But for now we can let that slide, might find out when another VT dies.
As far as who died, it's a simple Goon, so mafia PR still possibility out there.
Anyone with night info they're willing to share?
FP'd twice.
Does not mean you're not another bad faction Anark.
FP'd by Super
THERE IS THE SCENE...
My guess is both the mafia and the doc targeted the only known power role so far, jonty, which is why the mafia didn't make a kill. That or there is a busdriver that switched jonty with rishaed, and the third faction doesn't kill. Either way, I don't expect anyone to come forward.
And all VT are named the same, that's why I said I am 99% sure nark is clean.
There are any number of scenarios possible. A smart Doc will always target a claimed PR day one. A town watcher would as well. I find it unlikely Jonty would target night one without a clue. I could be wrong. I also doubt mafia would target jonty because they would have no idea what PRs are out there night one. The low risk option would be to work around Jonty.
I went back to check in on the ANARK voting (mostly watched posts after he claimed).
I know for sure of one VT and potentially a 2nd VT out there besides Anark. Now with the flip and rereading I see all the hints I didn't pay attention to before.
As for non-VT's I have 3 non-VT reads that I am almost 100% certain are either PR's/scum.
One of them I am leaning more towards scum than town PR and will put forth my vote. I Vote Jmac. From the way he talked yesterday about killing people, I feel as though he is scum.
I also have reason to believe that there were in fact 2 kill blocks (whether it be doc or roleblocker blocking the kills).
All I will say is, after the death scene yesterday, I was leaning toward rishaed being scum. (Not because of the death of RD, but because of rishaed's posts).
FP'd by Iron Butterfly.
Highest Rank: Major:2157
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers"
[Note: Rest of list deleted (of people), see what this list is for below].
Anark is basically confirmed town at this point.
But we have 4 people that I could not get a basic read from after Anark claimed, spiesr posted things and all, but nothing very read worthy on his role. Same with virus and the rest.
Not really pcm's fault, so I will not fault him. Still leaves 3 people that either were pretty inactive, or they did not really post things I found to be any sort of ability to read from.
Actually, one player, who I've played with before, spiesr is still on this list... Rereading ALL of his posts since the game started.. Maybe it's the quantity of posts that made me not realize just how little he's contributed. Most of his posts are simple one sentence remarks about what someone says. Nothing really much on the cases that were going on. Which to me is odd coming from him.
kgb better be active today, he was let off the noose yesterday because of his vacation, now that he's back, if he pulls that inactivity again, I will push for his lynch myself.
virus seems to defend some people but nothing really gives away any reads on him.
Out of the three, for read wise, my biggest FOS is on Spiesr.
Highest Rank: Major:2157
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers"
while anark does look to be VT i am unwilling to clear him of all doubt just yet... Just keeping an open mind.
I would say because of anarks actions yesterday, in particular how he ended up viewing my opinions, and the way we came to agreement on (what i thought was basic points) really helped my view of him. That is why i felt he is town.
Pending someone coming forward with a relevant night action or something I would like to consider lynching Jonty again today. With rishaed's death I have reason to believe that the multiple non-town killers theory is correct. I still think that having a Vig in addition to that would be too much. Vote Jonty I would also like some explanation for this.
spiesr wrote:
jonty125 wrote:No Jak I'm not willing to play your game, if scum choose no kill N1, then I'm really screwed.
Are you saying that you are not willing to use you Vig power as a surrogate lynch if we decide we want to test your claim that way?
spiesr wrote:Pending someone coming forward with a relevant night action or something I would like to consider lynching Jonty again today. With rishaed's death I have reason to believe that the multiple non-town killers theory is correct. I still think that having a Vig in addition to that would be too much. Vote Jonty I would also like some explanation for this.
spiesr wrote:
jonty125 wrote:No Jak I'm not willing to play your game, if scum choose no kill N1, then I'm really screwed.
Are you saying that you are not willing to use you Vig power as a surrogate lynch if we decide we want to test your claim that way?
So Spiesr...you would be comfortable having someone direct your claimed night action to prove you are Town? Nothing could possibly go wrong with that idea but you sure would seem scummy criticizing that idea.
rishaed wrote:Since when am I not presenting my own ideas. I have emphatically stated that lynching a claimed vig on D1, is not exactly a good idea, A. if hes lying then hes prolly gonna get investigated, and the only save he might have is if hes investigation immune. B. I was among the first to vote No Lynch, at which time I stated my reasons for doing so. C. If there are multiple Mafia factions, he's still painting a bullseye on the back of his head. D.Another possibility is that hes an SK, with investigation immunity. E. IF that is true, then he still has painted a target on himself by claiming a vig/killing role. F. I have multiply stated that vigs are one of towns best assets. G. If hes fakeclaiming a vig role, and there is another vig out there, hes a dead man tonight anyways. H. I have made up my mind, and put my vote behind it as well. And I am hardly going to believe every VT role that comes across, don't take me for an idiot. Information is power, and right now I have precious little information to go off of. Also sure Jonty may not be playing according to META, but that hold precious little water by me right now. Hes experienced enough to know that he will be caught if he is lying, and attracting huge amounts of attention is the last thing that he would need. And as much as X-Stors reasons are good, I am not lynching a claimed Vig on D1, and you are right about the fact that I still haven't made up my mind on whether or not Nark deserves any credibility on his claim. You want me to change my mind, you need to present a better option to me today. I've reread 3-4 times already over the past few days. Also I do think that Jonty's second point on you in his initial case still holds merit. I call BS on the sheeping statement as well. All statements are statements made of my own opinions, and sorry if I like to keep some of my reads to myself. I express myself through my vote. fp'd
Reposting this for the sake of pointing out that rishaed heavily defended the keeping of jonty alive for the sake of keeping the vig alive and not on his opinion on jonty (which Storr called him out on quite a bit). This suggests one of two things:
1. He was trying to look town by defending someone he knew was telling the truth. 2. They were scummates, and he was trying to keep him alive.
As to which it is, I am undecided. Thought it was worth pointing out, though.
Iron Butterfly wrote:So Spiesr...you would be comfortable having someone direct your claimed night action to prove you are Town? Nothing could possibly go wrong with that idea but you sure would seem scummy criticizing that idea.
The comfort level would vary based on what my claimed action was and what I perceived the risks to be. In the case of me claiming Vig and the town wanting to direct who I kill I would likely go along with it.
jak111 wrote:kgb better be active today, he was let off the noose yesterday because of his vacation, now that he's back, if he pulls that inactivity again, I will push for his lynch myself.
i have zero information that would clear up the events of last night, obviously you're holding back information which may be giving other players with clues from last night pause before posting and giving away their position as well..
the last two posts were more defense of keeping jonty alive - the bit about it being an elaborate ploy by scum is what most interests me in the second post (colored for your benefit)
I've quoted one of my posts above. It doesn't fit perfectly given the new information but what it boils down to is that, does jonty give a fakeclaim that may not make sense initially based on setup/game info/etc, hoping to have players point out the lack of common sense thus validating the claim bc no scum would be silly enough to give such a shakey claim in the first place, as I stated previously, I'm leaning towards jonty being scum right now but obviously reserve the right to change my opinion based on the information of others today..
finally @jak - I find it silly that my activity levels are being questioned. When I have something to say, I'll say it. It may be relevant to the conversation or it may be in jest. My lack of posting for 4-5 days didn't slow the game down at all on D1. I feel it only got more attention bc I acknowledged the inactivity complaints and engaged with those who took umbrage.
Which brings me to another player that didn't get quite the attention for inactivity that I did. Virus had the same number of posts (8) for D1 as myself and if you start with his confirmation post, of which, only 2 posts that were more than a few words, both listed below.
I find the first quoted post more interesting of the 2 given the flip on RD but acknowledge it's circumstantial at best right now/something to keep in mind going forward
People that i will be looking at today, IB for sure and PCM. IB for the pulling off of Jonty right before claim time, and pushing onto RD at that pint. and PCM for the deciding vote between the 2 lynches and moving to RD.
I think KGB is also someone too look at as well, Joke vote and No lynch. This imo shows lack of commitment / willingness to put one self forward to help town with making a decision. Virus might be a little off as well, I don't have much experience with him, he makes his own case vs mudpuppy which no one seems to get on day 1. Sticks to it. (not really pro town or anti town imo)
i have contributed on all cases last day, not which much words, but most of the time because i just disagreed with the votes and the reasoning behind it. which i did state, directly or indirectly. on nark:
So i have given information about what i think, so thats where i think your wrong. Besides i also build a case against mudpuppy day 1, i wasnt feeling good about our current targets at that time so thats why i did a full reread and found mudpuppy suspicious, this was before the rodgerdodger case was taking of big time. my case was mostly ignored. so day 1 I disagreed with the cases on jonty and nark, build a case against mudpuppy and i said with deadline near that when i had to choose between jonty and rodger dodger, i would prefer to lynch rodger dodger over jonty because of his behaviour. at this point it was clear my case was not gonna make it day 1, but i wanted to keep my vote on mudpuppy. so the thing your right about is that im not posting as frequent as for instance stor or yourself. But i think your wrong that you can not make a read on my. I clearly stated my opinions on all major events and i tried to create a case day 1, but that got ignored.
StorrZerg wrote:People that i will be looking at today, IB for sure and PCM. IB for the pulling off of Jonty right before claim time, and pushing onto RD at that pint. and PCM for the deciding vote between the 2 lynches and moving to RD.
I gave my reasons. If you'd like to reexamine them, feel free. I'll point out, however, that rishaed's defense of jonty is a new wrinkle which may have affected my opinion yesterday as I made that judgement on different reasoning.
StorrZerg wrote:People that i will be looking at today, IB for sure and PCM. IB for the pulling off of Jonty right before claim time, and pushing onto RD at that pint. and PCM for the deciding vote between the 2 lynches and moving to RD.
I think KGB is also someone too look at as well, Joke vote and No lynch. This imo shows lack of commitment / willingness to put one self forward to help town with making a decision. Virus might be a little off as well, I don't have much experience with him, he makes his own case vs mudpuppy which no one seems to get on day 1. Sticks to it. (not really pro town or anti town imo)
I explained why I pulled off Jonty. Mine was a initial joke vote, which band wagoned real quick. If I had kept my vote there without valid reason and he claimed and then was lynched I could easily have been targeted as scum/set apon. I do not believe Jonty to be scum. It is a stupid day one claim for mafia to make. I pulled my vote when I did because I recognized where it would put me. Damned if I do and damned if I don't.
Second I stand by my case on Roger Dodger. I do not know how they played six years ago but she was not new to the concept of the game. Her initial votes and the one on Jonty were scummy. She was given countless chances to answer simple basic questions in her defense. Hind siight is 20/20 but even with people holding her hand like some special needs child she could not save herself.
We lynched a claimed VT. I would do it again having the three claims we did.
kgb007 wrote:i have zero information that would clear up the events of last night, obviously you're holding back information which may be giving other players with clues from last night pause before posting and giving away their position as well..
Of course I am holding back information, everyone with any type of power role or not claimed yet is holding back information. For now, I am waiting to see if the information I know needs to be known today or not. As of yet, I see no reason it needs to be known. (Same with everyone else who have talked and not given what they know yet).
That being said, if someone has information that could lead to a mafia lynch today, we need it on the table.
But yeah, you're right, I am holding back information until it is relevant or useful I will hold my cards until laying them out can strike a blow against the mafia.
Surprised no one else has commented on my vote on Jmac (and Jmac yet to make an appearance to complain that I am voting him). Does that mean no one cares about that vote or no one cares about him? Right now if no one has any info I am thinking a Jmac push would be in order. I believe 90% he is scum at the current moment.
Highest Rank: Major:2157
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers"
Give me a moment and I'll respond to your ridiculous accusations, which I was just going to ignore, but I'm guessing you won't drop it.
And the reason I didn't post any more was because the day started at a bit of a busy time during work. Getting up at five AM three days straight is no fun.
I'm intrigued enough by jak's soft claim as PR and his near certainty of jmac's scumminess that I think a move to force a claim is warranted. I had a pretty strong town read on jak yesterday and his posts today only reinforce the town vibe I'm getting from him. jmac was the second vote on the Roger Dodger and I already pointed my FOS in IB's direction for starting the ball rolling on her:
Vote jmac
Doc protecting jonty, who held his trigger finger, makes most sense to me for explaining the lone kill last night.
Personally, I don't think you're a VT, jak111. But I'd be willing to bet that you're part of the third party. You'd still need to hunt mafia, but it wouldn't hurt your cause at all if you got a townie along the way.
Would you like to enlighten the rest of us as to how you came across your fount of knowledge? Or just make more vague statements and overly long posts, hoping that no one will pay enough attention to call your crap out?
MudPuppy wrote:I'm intrigued enough by jak's soft claim as PR and his near certainty of jmac's scumminess that I think a move to force a claim is warranted. I had a pretty strong town read on jak yesterday and his posts today only reinforce the town vibe I'm getting from him. jmac was the second vote on the Roger Dodger and I already pointed my FOS in IB's direction for starting the ball rolling on her:
Vote jmac
Doc protecting jonty, who held his trigger finger, makes most sense to me for explaining the lone kill last night.
So how does A mafia dieing, and Jonty claiming to not have shot make him look any better? I would find it far more likely that he is with mafia, and their kill shot failed.
I also think it would have been pretty absurd for the doc to save jonty last night. Specially with RD flipping town.
(which is a big reason why i am comfortable with keeping the pressure on jonty)
Jonty has had far to many "odd" things happen to him for me to just call them all a coincidence. *lb removing his vote and starting band wagon onto RD (right at l-2 when jonty said he would claim) *PCM being the hammer and removing his vote and changing *Rishaed (confirmed scum) defending jonty hard (and even more so his push onto no lynch day 1)
Now most of this is not something jonty had "visible" control over sure. This partly why these events trigger scum on jonty's face. Reason for not going harder on PCM and LB, because likely one of them did the actions as a real townie. I think it is very likely the scum team stacked to hard in defending jonty on day 1.
StorrZerg wrote:So how does A mafia dieing, and Jonty claiming to not have shot make him look any better? I would find it far more likely that he is with mafia, and their kill shot failed.
I don't have a solid read on Jonty. I do believe it is quite likely we have 3 killing factions if jonty's claim is true (town vig & 2 scum factions). So, I was just agreeing that the theory of a doctor protecting jonty seems to be a likely scenario of what happened last night. IF jonty is not part of Rishaed's faction, then they would have pegged him as a town PR or a member of the opposing scum faction. Either way, it makes him a likely target for them. I don't think it's absurd for a doc to save jonty. For the reasons stated before, he's a likely target for a hit... which makes him a likely target for a save if you believe his town claim. I'm assuming Rishaed's death was at the hands of the 2nd mafia faction... and Jonty said beforehand he would not shoot and confirmed that inaction today. So, all that seems reasonable. However, I'm not well-versed in all the different roles that may have had an impact on last nights actions (e.g., bussing, etc.) so I'm still open to other theories on what happened.
To me, RD flipping town was a given. I'm guessing the votes against her were a mix of scum and town policy votes. I find it difficult to believe anyone had a strong scum read on her.
I think jonty is still a solid suspect... but I'm definitely eager to hear jmac claim.
Storr, you mentioned you'd be looking at IB, pcm, & kgb... and your vote is still on jonty. I'd like to hear more on your reads of jak and jmac.
