The Village of Secrets [GAME OVER] Werewolves Win!

[spiesr]

what does that even mean.

Have you guys been linked since the start?
Well virus is dead so we can't ask you both the same questions..

how does your mason power work

We both know that the other is a Town Mason and can talk at Night. It is a pretty standard (if not necessarily common) role around here. In this case we both started as Masons and there is no recruiter.

[Jmac1026]

What are some of the things you discussed?

We really need Mudpuppy's results here.

[StorrZerg]

yeah so thats where there is a slight problem.


We don't have his side to corroborate the story now. you claim no recruiter, yet how are we to know?

i suppose because virus flipped blue it should suggest that he was town. I suppose you could be similar.
I've scene people mason'd together not knowing the alignment of one another. hmm

[StorrZerg]

Doesn't matter, we can let mp keep his claim for the moment.
Could just start pushing on people and see what happens.


So with "mafia" 3 have died, with all being normal goons.


Cult faction could still be out there, With 3 nights, could have 4 members.
Since game isn't over, my thoughts are IF there is a cult faction, they stacked with a mafia hit. Or tried to recruit the jak kill.

[pancakemix]

So here's the problem: Unless we find the recruiter today, we are completely boned. Actually, that's not true. We should already have lost. Think about it for a second. Assume the game starts with one vampire:

N1: 14 alive, V+1
N2: 12 alive, 2V+1
N3: 9 alive, 3V+1

So on Day 4, the count would be 4V:3T:1VH. We'd have lost. This also assumes that they never hit a mafia or jak (since anti-town factions typically kill cults on attempt) and that they didn't get blocked (since no one countered Sausage's fake claim, I think we can assume we don't have one). Couple that with the fact that it couldn't have been me any of those nights or Mudpuppy the first two (according to jak). Doesn't that seem weird to you? Doesn't it seem weird that this guy who's been sketchy all game wants us to follow him is the only one with any inkling about vampires?

On top of that, why does jak insist on continually clearing Nark? Like, not attempting to put a damper on Nark's claim. On the contrary, if we're dealing with a recruiter why would jak so consistently clear him on his ubiquitous lists?

I already have a well-documented history of questioning jak in this thread because his story has seemed a bit sketchy. The numbers don't add up. We have no evidence of the vampires outside of jak's word and today, we have to find the recruiter or we lose. That's a slim to none chance if they're playing as well as they have up to this point (if they're even playing). Rather than fight futilely against the devil I don't know, I'll fight the devil I do. Vote Jak.

[StorrZerg]

pcm, you assume that things "never" stacked.

I think its likely stacks occurred. If jaks craziness is correct then its probably auto loss if he is lynched today.

Lets look at it this way, If jak is full of shit. It doesn't matter. (game would continue if no cult was alive correct?) What we should think about is what Jak is if he is not "vampire hunter"

[jak111]

Cult faction could still be out there, With 3 nights, could have 4 members.
Since game isn't over, my thoughts are IF there is a cult faction, they stacked with a mafia hit. Or tried to recruit the jak kill.

Or they tried to recruit me N1/N2. N2 more likely with all of what I was hinting at D2.

N3 definitely not since they'd know better from my claim to try.

Even perhaps they have a percentage chance of recruiting someone successfully.

Doesn't matter, my trust in people is minimal, anyone (besides pcm for today) could be cult.

My secondary action I will keep to myself for now, it's not useful at this time, it neither clears/confirms anyone. When it can clear/confirm someone I will reveal it.

Unlike the cop, who should be telling us who he found inno/vampire because his action will only be useful in today's lynching. (If he's not cult by now skewing results).

At the moment, two people left unclaimed. So far, no doctor. So it stands to believe that one of them will be our doc.

The thing to keep in mind right now, is everyone can do a real claim, but are they still that role or are they recruited.

I know I've been bypassing Anark for a while, but he'd be high on the recruit list if only for the fact everyone believes his VT claim. Last night the cop would of been very high on the recruit list.

I doubt they recruited Jmac last night or the night before with all the pressure that's been leaning his way, that being said he could possibly be recruited N1 or original leader.

I guess the main thing we have to do is figure out who would most likely be recruited of all the claims and people.

Also, spiesr, don't get hung up on my reason number 2, that is just thrown in there as there was no reason not to shoot him, nothing stuck out that made him worth keeping around. The list I had to work with that I've given myself during the day was very small. It was going to be one of them, just so happened to be your partner.

FP'd by pcm.

• Read this post, I just read yours and the Anark thing I brought up here actually.
• I am simply immune to them, I doubt I kill them if they attempt on me.
• If cult is at say 3 people right now, you realise it takes only yours and one more town's vote then vampires could quick-lynch me if they're fast. After that, it doesn't matter how hard you try, you'd lose. (Assuming they then not fail any night recruit attempts with me and mafia out of the way). Simply because they'd have more people than town with no way to reduce their percentage over town.

FP'd by Storr, should be thinking how strong is the vampire's hold over votes today. I'll not be casting my vote willy nilly, neither should anyone else that is still town.

[pancakemix]

pcm, you assume that things "never" stacked.

I think its likely stacks occurred. If jaks craziness is correct then its probably auto loss if he is lynched today.

Lets look at it this way, If jak is full of shit. It doesn't matter. (game would continue if no cult was alive correct?) What we should think about is what Jak is if he is not "vampire hunter"

SK comes to mind. It makes the most sense, considering how vanilla this setup has been.

@jak: How do you know you're just immune? How do you know you don't kill them? When I think about vampire hunters, that person isn't immune from vampires. They kill vampires.

How did I know you were going to try and withhold something here again? You really have no reason to withhold information from us right now. This is part of why I think you're scum. You're not willing to keep us in the loop. If you're actually on our side, get on it.

[Jmac1026]

He's has openly admitted to killing two towns, claiming he was "aiming" for the vamps. Oops. Vampire Hunting is a good cover for serial killing.

Vote Jak, unless mudpuppy has something helpful to add.

[StorrZerg]

yeah im not lynching jak today.

If jak telling truth, i can wait 1 more day.
Its worth the risk of extending 1 more day to see if he is telling truth regarding "cult"
If jak is SK, then game just ends yes?

Its simple logic at this point. Just like it was simple logic yesterday listening to MP

[jak111]

@jak: How do you know you're just immune? How do you know you don't kill them? When I think about vampire hunters, that person isn't immune from vampires. They kill vampires.

How did I know you were going to try and withhold something here again? You really have no reason to withhold information from us right now. This is part of why I think you're scum. You're not willing to keep us in the loop. If you're actually on our side, get on it.

(I love lists, they get my point across with nice bulletins)

• I could quote my pm, but no thanks, rather not be modkilled.
• Stop playing the mod pcm. Yeah, I'm a vampire hunter, what you, I and keener would do with the role is completely different from each other. He probably made it that I don't kill them so my role isn't terribly OP.
• I choose to withhold it because outing it does nothing for us, literally. It just gives the info out for someone to easily lie around. Right now it's not useful, but if I can catch someone in a lie. I will out it.

Trying to withhold something, I outed almost every damn thing possible for a faction I'm not 100% aligned with. I could of stayed quiet and let people get recruited around you while you're in complete ignorance that you are in fact losing. I withhold this simple action to further help your faction and my WC.

Think about this pcm. I know you're the doc, I've known since Sausage died and MP outed his role yesterday (which I didn't believe him because I thought he was the doc, then I started thinking, who would be the doc in this game). If I was anti-town I'd of killed you and covered it up by saying my kill was blocked or that I chose to not make a kill for whatever reason. Storr is out in the open too much to be the town's doc. You aren't. I'm outing you now, because there's literally no use of your role anymore. You can't stop recruiting unless you have some magical powers as the doc.

He's has openly admitted to killing two towns, claiming he was "aiming" for the vamps. Oops. Vampire Hunting is a good cover for serial killing.

Vote Jak, unless mudpuppy has something helpful to add.

• I killed 1 town directly (accidentally) and 1 indirectly (because of kgb's N1 action).

Your vote means nothing to me due to your probability to being cult (original or N1).

I am interested in seeing how others react to this. If you give up to cult now, only a few people win with all those dead townies losing including the ones that will be outnumbered when cult does achieve majority.

FP'd by Storr. They all have different reasons for voting me, I'm surprised you haven't yet, whether you're hammer sitting as cult or believe the foolishness going around.

Vampires want me gone, because if I'm gone there's nothing stopping them from the win.
Town wants me gone, because I haven't managed to kill a vampire yet even though I've killed 2/3 of the mafia faction for them. You'd think it's worth one more day to try to get vampires and prove to them just how royally screwed they are without my killing power.

Instead they believe me a SK which they could easily lynch at final 3/4 if I'm lying. What is the greater threat, ask yourselves that. A SK that can be lynched out of the game at 3/4 people left if that's what you really believe me to be. Or a vampire cult that wants me gone in order to have nothing to stop them from winning this.

[pancakemix]

(I love lists, they get my point across with nice bulletins)

-I could quote my pm, but no thanks, rather not be modkilled.
-Stop playing the mod pcm. Yeah, I'm a vampire hunter, what you, I and keener would do with the role is completely different from each other. He probably made it that I don't kill them so my role isn't terribly OP.
-I choose to withhold it because outing it does nothing for us, literally. It just gives the info out for someone to easily lie around. Right now it's not useful, but if I can catch someone in a lie. I will out it.

Not asking you to. I need more than faith at this point, though.

Then what do you suggest? I know what the basic mechanics are for mafia games, cults dying on nontown targets is one of them. My question is unanswered: How do you know that?

Listen, your role is a complicated mess of a thing that isn't fully explained. The only way we can get answers on this is you. You aren't giving them to us. You're supposed to be on our side. If you were on our side you'd tell us stuff, but you won't even post your role color.

While I'm on this subject, in what world could jak achieve at least one of all five of his possible actions? How does he receive these actions? Per his account, he doesn't "have" them, so how does he "get" them? Does he ask for them? Do they come to him? Do you see my point here? There's so much in terms of technical aspects that need to be figured out, but there's not much we know, and this is a lot of detail for one role when the rest of the game has been so simplistic.

Trying to withhold something, I outed almost every damn thing possible for a faction I'm not 100% aligned with. I could of stayed quiet and let people get recruited around you while you're in complete ignorance that you are in fact losing. I withhold this simple action to further help your faction and my WC.

How? What does it do? How does not telling me what I don't know further my WC? Sure, you could have stayed quiet, but mafia's a threat to you too either way. You got what you needed out of us, now it's fine time to sow confusion and mistrust while leading in the name of town. How am I supposed to believe you're with us if you won't tell me everything?

Think about this pcm. I know you're the doc, I've known since Sausage died and MP outed his role yesterday (which I didn't believe him because I thought he was the doc, then I started thinking, who would be the doc in this game). If I was anti-town I'd of killed you and covered it up by saying my kill was blocked or that I chose to not make a kill for whatever reason. Storr is out in the open too much to be the town's doc. You aren't. I'm outing you now, because there's literally no use of your role anymore. You can't stop recruiting unless you have some magical powers as the doc.

Heh. You're funny. Alas, you are wrong. Tell us who you think the vampires are, so we can know who not to look into.

[pancakemix]

While I'm on it: If you suspect Jmac so much, why didn't you kill him? He's probably THE most likely to be vampire if anyone is.

[kgb007]

@kgb, can you clarify your powers a bit more? Is it a one time use? (If so, the mod effectively made you a VT after forcing it N1).

correct, one time use, had to use it during N1, effectively a vanilla townie now

[jak111]

pcm, I know you're rarely a skimmer. So did you just start reading my posts late yesterday and today? All the information you're asking for I have stated here or there.

I even gave my real colour in today's small list thing of claims. You need to stop skipping my answers if you want your questions to have answers for them.

I have said, there's a percent chance of each item and I can slightly change the percentage each night.

Instead of asking the same questions I've answered as you "case" against me, just admit you skimmed my posts that have the answers to the questions you're asking and I'll put them all in a single post (I'll even go back and quote them all into one post for you). But for me to do that, you must admit that you skipped most of my posts (whether they're too large or whatever for you to read).

Right now, you're pulling this case from thin air with questions that I have answered at one point or another. It's like you're intentionally skipping it.

So once you do admit it, ask all your questions that you want in one post together (use bulletins like I've used, it's the little list code with the * code for each bulletin). Then I'll answer it in my post after the admittance post with all the answers colour coded to help you.

When is mafia ever completely basic? I mean >.> I can say more so for mine and slash's games, they are a bit more... experimental.

Then what I said yesterday is still valid if you're not the doc (which I find hard to believe, mafia not getting a night kill and all). Doc's and Cop's are not in every game and thus this is not your "basic mechanics" Cops and Docs are almost always in every basic game of mafia. I am sure behind some of those basic names he's given there's a bit more info to them than what meets the eye due to this not being a very basic game. Because after all this IS "The Village of Secrets". With that opening scene I do not think the name would suit the game if this is a basic mafia game. Otherwise the title would be "The Village of Basics".

[StorrZerg]

personally i'd like to lynch kgb (dat claim...)
and for how he pushed jamac

[jak111]

Oh and I didn't kill Jmac because he at least had a claim on the table, whether or not I believe it, the town let him off the noose yesterday with no-one really wanting him dead when he was a prime candidate for a lynch, town had the chance, didn't want him dead, so why should I simply kill him off without town wanting it.

After all, I AM trying to help town. You can ask Jmac if he wants to reverse time back and I kill him instead. Or if you think he's mafia, you can go right ahead and lynch him. Virus was just as likely to be a vampire as Jmac was, even more so since no real pressure has gone his way.

FP'd by Storr. Meh, I'd like to get a claim from you and pcm, get it all out on the table and take a step back to look at the bigger picture.

[pancakemix]

Don't be an ass. If I missed something point it out. I tend to have a pretty thick skin, but if you behave like this I will flip out and it will not be pretty. If you just want to shame me or whatever that's not going to do you any favors.

If you're to give me answers, do it. If not, I'll keep pushing. All I want is straight answers and the more you jerk around for this reason or that, the more irritating it becomes. You're trying to make a spectacle out of "how wrong I am". I know how you play. I'm not biting.

Now answer me: Why didn't you kill Jmac?

FP'd: Oh, f*ck you. We had a cop claim. You've been pushing him as scum all game. You've had ample opportunity to kill him. If you're pro-town, act pro-town.

[StorrZerg]

Oh and I didn't kill Jmac because he at least had a claim on the table, whether or not I believe it, the town let him off the noose yesterday with no-one really wanting him dead when he was a prime candidate for a lynch, town had the chance, didn't want him dead, so why should I simply kill him off without town wanting it.

After all, I AM trying to help town. You can ask Jmac if he wants to reverse time back and I kill him instead. Or if you think he's mafia, you can go right ahead and lynch him. Virus was just as likely to be a vampire as Jmac was, even more so since no real pressure has gone his way.

FP'd by Storr. Meh, I'd like to get a claim from you and pcm, get it all out on the table and take a step back to look at the bigger picture.

this is a joke right? "no one wanted him dead" LOL

[jak111]

FP'd: Oh, f*ck you.

Oh I think we're past the point of you being ready to flip out.

We had a scummy cop claim at that. Sure, he was truthful, it doesn't make it any less scummy. No one directed me to kill Jmac and I decided to leave him be for the night.

You want me to "act pro-town" Well, I'm not acting. I'm forced into being pro-town now with no mafia left. I sorta wish I didn't kill the first two mafia. What you mean is "OMG, you made your first bad night kill, you're not pro-town, you should be hitting them every single night" type of deal. The way I see it, I'm 2 for 3 kills on anti-town. That's better than anyone else in the game. But I am distrusted because I chose to out the fact that there's another more serious anti-town threat and that I can help kill them off. Perhaps mentioning that I am third party was a mistake, but I didn't want a cop to out themselves because of a mis-read. Sorry if that's not pro-town enough for you pcm. Oh, and sorry for being wrong in the lynch yesterday, but unlike half the bloody town I was thinking about the possibility of a fake cop. Trying to keep town from falling into a scum trap.

Sure my theories are wild, but in mafia with no carved in stone set-up for roles, sometimes it's the crazy theories that are right. I don't have a problem that no one else suspected MP, turns out they were right to trust him, I have a problem that no one else thought of it being a possibility nor of the consequence it could of had on town.

Right now you're getting angry at me because of this false "case" you have on me thinking it deserves all the cookies in the world when I am pretty sure any question you asked is already answered and instead of just admitting that you may have skimmed or skipped by the answers you begin to get angry.

Speaking of answers to your questions, I even answered the Jmac one then you flipped out with that quote that I partially quoted. You want answers, you're gonna have to play ball and just admit to it, it's not that hard, everyone misses things people say from time to time. I do it, spiesr does it, IB does it, pretty sure safari does it, everyone does it, including you.

All I am asking for is the respect to admit that you may have skimmed my posts and missed it. I write giant posts, it's not hard to miss something I say.

FP'd by Storr. I wanted him dead, but that's besides the point. I want a bunch of people dead and the game to be over to where the vampires lose and we win.

Also, I didn't say "No one" I said town didn't want him dead, as in a majority did not. He did not get lynched. Heck, I want spiesr dead because I never trust him. All these town claims out on the table yet anyone of them could be both telling the truth AND recruited.

You're all busy asking how can you trust me, how can I trust any of you? Any of you can be recruited now or in the future and be against me meanwhile I am trying to help the remaining town win.

[jak111]

I know how you play. I'm not biting.

While we're at it, how do I play pcm? Enlighten everyone that has never played with me before. Do I take risks to help town out? Do I usually help people out when I can?

Do go on, how do I play pcm?

[jak111]

I know how you play. I'm not biting.

While we're at it, how do I play pcm? Enlighten everyone that has never played with me before. Do I take risks to help town out? Do I usually help people out when I can?

Do go on, how do I play pcm?

Oh to go onto the questions, how often do I die for town because I stick my neck out for them and flip town/town-align-abled 3rd party?

[StorrZerg]

why do you say no mafia left?

[pancakemix]

FP'd: Oh, f*ck you.

Oh I think we're past the point of you being ready to flip out.

Go ahead and ignore the relevant portion there. If you're going to post something so boneheadedly scummy, you deserve it.

We had a scummy cop claim at that. Sure, he was truthful, it doesn't make it any less scummy. No one directed me to kill Jmac and I decided to leave him be for the night.

To which I say again, f*ck you. You're a terrible improvisor. We're talking about leads here, and your best reason to kill virus was "I didn't have a reason not to". That's the kind of thing I'd get punished for if I said that to my parents when I was young. There was every reason to kill him last night. To try to manipulate us to use our lynch on him is ridiculous.

You want me to "act pro-town" Well, I'm not acting. I'm forced into being pro-town now with no mafia left. I sorta wish I didn't kill the first two mafia. What you mean is "OMG, you made your first bad night kill, you're not pro-town, you should be hitting them every single night" type of deal. The way I see it, I'm 2 for 3 kills on anti-town. That's better than anyone else in the game. But I am distrusted because I chose to out the fact that there's another more serious anti-town threat and that I can help kill them off. Perhaps mentioning that I am third party was a mistake, but I didn't want a cop to out themselves because of a mis-read. Sorry if that's not pro-town enough for you pcm. Oh, and sorry for being wrong in the lynch yesterday, but unlike half the bloody town I was thinking about the possibility of a fake cop. Trying to keep town from falling into a scum trap.

Is that what I mean? Because I don't see how, if you knew there was no mafia left, you would say "Let's shoot someone random" and not "I'll shoot the guy I've been pressuring all game." You got two scum, I have no right to complain about that, though I'd put forward that if you killed HotShot Night 2, given the circumstances.

Maybe it's because that, by definition, lets you get out of cop investigations no questions asked. I believe spiesr pointed that out yesterday. It's a claim all wrapped up in tissue paper with pink ribbons around it for a serial killer.

You may have been the only one worried about it. Least you could do is try to test it. But don't look at me; I'm not the one who can kill an obvious scum at night. I don't think I'd need anyone to direct me either.

Sure my theories are wild, but in mafia with no carved in stone set-up for roles, sometimes it's the crazy theories that are right. I don't have a problem that no one else suspected MP, turns out they were right to trust him, I have a problem that no one else thought of it being a possibility nor of the consequence it could of had on town.

Right now you're getting angry at me because of this false "case" you have on me thinking it deserves all the cookies in the world when I am pretty sure any question you asked is already answered and instead of just admitting that you may have skimmed or skipped by the answers you begin to get angry.

Speaking of answers to your questions, I even answered the Jmac one then you flipped out with that quote that I partially quoted. You want answers, you're gonna have to play ball and just admit to it, it's not that hard, everyone misses things people say from time to time. I do it, spiesr does it, IB does it, pretty sure safari does it, everyone does it, including you.

All I am asking for is the respect to admit that you may have skimmed my posts and missed it. I write giant posts, it's not hard to miss something I say.

No, If I'm getting flustered it's because you're "playing your game" where you go out of your way to belittle the person you're arguing with instead of actually making a counterargument. It can become grating at times. Though I'll say the "f*ck you" has more to do with how dumb your rationale is. The Town shouldn't have to stand here and tell you how to play your WC. If you're going to fire into the blue like that, you deserve to lose and maybe we should hand that to you. Tell me: if virus was alive, would you make a case on him today?

Respect is earned, not demanded. If you're demanding that from me, go f*ck yourself. If I ask a question you answered already you can answer it again. Demanding that is just another way for you to play ad hominem and I won't stand for it.

FP'd by Storr. I wanted him dead, but that's besides the point. I want a bunch of people dead and the game to be over to where the vampires lose and we win.

Also, I didn't say "No one" I said town didn't want him dead, as in a majority did not. He did not get lynched. Heck, I want spiesr dead because I never trust him. All these town claims out on the table yet anyone of them could be both telling the truth AND recruited.

You're all busy asking how can you trust me, how can I trust any of you? Any of you can be recruited now or in the future and be against me meanwhile I am trying to help the remaining town win.

This is what I'm talking about. If no one's my friend, who is my enemy? How can I trust anyone in this game? Occam's Razor would suggest that maybe instead of things getting convoluted when there's no evidence to see them, that maybe the one creating convolution is the one we should look into. In other words, you're confusing things by withholding info and playing erratically, and things would make a lot more sense if you were dead.

[kgb007]

personally i'd like to lynch kgb (dat claim...)
and for how he pushed jamac

Go on.. Get over my vote on jmac, I'm still suspicious of him but I'm more concerned with our vamp problem at the moment. You were rather active in D1 and D2, less so D3 after the vamp hunter revealed himself

The fact that you're even questioning my claim at this moment to gauge the rest of the town's temperature towards me is a little perplexing. Wanna ask about the mechanics of my role? Fine. Wanna ask why I picked the lovers I did? Ok. But questioning the claim outright?

Has anyone considered that perhaps we haven't gotten all the mafia? 3 goons seems a little underpowered, multi faction or not.

vote storr you'll hate my reasoning but let's have a claim, I also didn't care for your joke about not being cleared by jak yesterday