Game of Thrones (series spoiling only!)

[nagerous]

Did anyone think about the Lion King during Lord Bolton's 'all this will be yours' speech to his bastard son.

"And that's north of the wall Ramsay...you must never go there."


Daenerys is ok but her story is starting to bore me, it is too unattached to all the other plotlines and is being fleshed out with pointless romance stories. She should go to Westeros already. Felt sorry for Mormont though.

[patches70]

f*ck your fucking spoilers.

While we were in DR my friends and I had a good discussion on who our favorite three characters are. Mine are:

1. John Snow - great fighter, humbe, loyal, leader of men
2. Davos Seaworth - again, loyal, but is also moral (like when he freed Gendry)
3. Tyrion - yeah, that's not very creative but its hard to hate him

Hm. Trying to rank characters is always difficult. I've always liked Tyrion but he's never been in my top three.

[1]. Until last Sunday, Oberyn Martell - lots of swagger, intriguing storyline, and great dialogue
1. Davos Seaworth - maybe it's just the staunch atheism coming through, but I've always like how he sticks to his guns
2. Jaime Lannister - swag swag swag swag swag
3. Jon Snow - now that he's grown up and isn't a whiny brat anymore

Don't think this needs to be spoiled so:

I think I'm projecting my views onto Tyrion, but I never really got the gods angle from Tyrion. I always thought he saw the notion of trial by combat as a way of cheating the system when the odds were stacked in your favour - which is why he calls for Jaime to be his champion back at the Eyrie.

Well when he was at the Eyrie no. He didn't feel he had anything to worry about but this time. There was much more risk to it. He did it on a whim and he found himself trusting his life to a man he only knew by reputation against one of the most feared killers in the seven kingdoms. Gods came into it more this time even if it wasn't what he was initially thinking.

It was part of a greater spoiler, so I left it in there. I'd rather over-hide things than under-hide them.

This was actually a big departure from the books, and in my opinion the books fit the character better. [for those who did not read the books, the conversation where Oberyn offers to be Tyrion's champion occurs [b]prior to his demand for trial by combat] It was a calculated play in the books, as opposed to the emotional tossing everything into the wind that is in the show. While Tyrion was never really in control in the books, he had a much better handle on the situation than he did in the show.[/b]

I've read the books but I didn't remember that, sounds like they sold Tyrion short in a similar way they sold Baelish short. Reducing his intrigue and calculation abilities.

Yeah, in the books Oberyn did offer to be Tyrion's champion before Tyrion requested trial by combat. Oberyn is one of those few people in Westeros who could beat The Mountain in a straight up fight and Tyrion knew that.

[betiko]

well in the show looks like tyrion doesn't have much hope that oberyn could win...

[patches70]

well in the show looks like tyrion doesn't have much hope that oberyn could win...

What? Hahah, don't you remember the look Tyrion had when Oberyn came in and after telling the tale of how he and his sister saw Tyrion as a baby, that he would be his champion? Tyrion had that look of "Oh thank God". You could see Beethoven's 9th, Ode to Joy, playing in Tyrion's mind on that news. And yeah, Peter Dinklage is that good an actor.

But then the show went bad by having Tyrion seem like he didn't know anything about Oberyn. "He's called the Red Viper, do you think that means he can fight?" and such. Tyrion ain't that clueless at all. Oberyn is famous (or infamous depending on whom you were to ask). Not only is he renowned for his great fighting ability, but also for his utter ruthlessness when it comes to battle.

There is no way Tyrion wouldn't have known about that. But the series downplays a lot of these character's abilities and traits.


This is what Tyrion was thinking when Oberyn said he'd be his champion, fast forward directly to 1:35 to get the exact feeling Tyrion had at Oberyn's offer. Then thank me later. Haha-

[denominator]

Daenerys is ok but her story is starting to bore me, it is too unattached to all the other plotlines and is being fleshed out with pointless romance stories. She should go to Westeros already. Felt sorry for Mormont though.

Danaerys is a difficult character to like in the show, along with Bran. In the books, much of their story is inner turmoil and dialogue which does not come across well on screen. So when Danaerys yells "I am the mother of dragons" and all that in the books, it's a claim to her heritage and a bold play, while in the show without the inner backstory it comes across as whiny and pretentious. Bran is much the same, although the dream sequences are helping a bit.

I listened to an interview with Brian Cogman recently (one of the writers for the show) and he said he always has troubles writing the Danaerys scenes for the above reason. He also noted that her scenes also get moved from one episode to another quite frequently because she is so far removed from Westeros (for season three, most Dany scenes were moved one episode later in the season from their initial inception). I think this may also contribute to distancing her from the audience.

[strike wolf]

Even in the books, Tyrion was never as sure of Oberyn defeating the Mountain as he was when he was at the Eyrie in Jaime's chances to defeat whatever second rate knight that Lysa Arryn was able to convince. When he went by trial of combat at the Eyrie. He was about 80-90% sure in his chances. I would say it is closer to 60/40 with Oberyn in the books (and he was absolutely mortified when Oberyn picked a spear in the books). Still this is the show and the show handled it differently and honestly I felt they handled it better. I like seeing a genuine side to Tyrion. You can't always get that when he is calculating all the time. Which is easy to show in the show but not as easy to show his compassionate side when he is making these decisions. You say that they are selling Tyrion short. I disagree. We've seen multiple occasions where Tyrion has made brilliant decisions and tactically outsmarted everyone in the room. We see his wit in every episode. That isn't really anything that anyone questions. I would agree that Tyrion should know Oberyn better but he never saw him fight and The Mountain was no slouch as a fighter either. Being unsure was the natural state in this situation.

Dinklage is an amazing actor. It's a shame there aren't more roles out there for little people because I think he could be great in a lot of roles. Hell with it. Remake Lord of the Rings with him playing Frodo.

I liked Daenerys around the end of the first season and through the second. I just found her to be less appealing as her story went on.

[betiko]

ah come on: tyrion thought he was a dead man, oberyn gave him a good hope because 20% chances is still better than 0%. He was still pissing himself.
And of course tyrion has been a very witty character all along; maybe less in the season 4 where he is always in a terrible position within his family. He still didn't find his way with a great plan though.

Regarding Bran: I really liked this character in the first season and his story isn't getting anywhere. I still have good hopes. When the hell are they showing the wildling with rickion though??????? haven't seen him even once since he split apart from his brother.

[strike wolf]

An episode solely focused on the wall? I am still trying to believe it.

So...Jon Snow learns how to fight dirty. Congratulations. He knows something. So he can go toe to toe with the Magnar of Thenn (a ferocious and feared fighter) but he couldn't handle Qarl...well okay. To be honest, Qarl had a bit of a weapons advantage but still...I enjoyed the episode. The last one was better but this one was good.

[Army of GOD]

Ugh, Jon is so awesome. Hes probably the only person, real or fake, that I'd go gay for.

Ygritte's death was predictable, which was a bit disappointing, and I'm even more disappointed that she didn't kill the guy that Jon hammered ("if anyone tries to kill him, you gon' die").

Thoroughly enjoyed the episode though. Jon cant get enough screen time.

[denominator]

I was very disappointed to see them kill off both Grenn and Pyp.

This episode was a very large departure from the storyline of the books, but for the most part (see above), I was a big fan of it. The way it was written worked better for written word in the books, and for the screen in the show.

Episode 10 is going to be one hell of a ride.

[strike wolf]

I was very disappointed to see them kill off both Grenn and Pyp.

This episode was a very large departure from the storyline of the books, but for the most part (see above), I was a big fan of it. The way it was written worked better for written word in the books, and for the screen in the show.

Episode 10 is going to be one hell of a ride.

Yah. not to mention that Jon never saw Ygritte get shot with the arrow in the books. Admittedly as cliche as it was, it worked well for the way the episode went. Poor Grenn. Didn't deserve that. Actually it didn't occur to me until that scene that they had never included Donal Noye who was the one armed blacksmith of Castle Black who actually led the Watch in the Battle of the Wall since Bowen Marsh was out chasing wildlings, Allister Thorne was still riding back from Kings Landing with Janos Slynt and all other leaders of the Wall were dead. He actually died the same way Grenn did, taking out Mag, the King of the Giants, in the tunnels. This of course left the defense of the wall up to Jon Snow. That is until Janos and Thorne arrived after Jon and the Watch had held out for three days. Thorne took command and ordered Jon to go out and "treat" with Mance Raydar. I feel like the show handled this better than the books but we will see how it turns out. I liked that they actually humanized Thorne a bit in this episode.

[betiko]

well for me it was possibly the most boring episode of the season. what a waste of game of thrones minutes. Just hate the wall storyline, I wanted to see advancements elsewhere.
Only interesting bit is when the maester reveals he is a targaryen.

ok I just went to check a targaryen family tree; Martin is mental, he made something up for 20 generations at least lol.
I am always very confused about the targaryens... who is supposed to be still alive other than daenerys and this old guy???? who is he, her grandfather?

[strike wolf]

well for me it was possibly the most boring episode of the season. what a waste of game of thrones minutes. Just hate the wall storyline, I wanted to see advancements elsewhere.
Only interesting bit is when the maester reveals he is a targaryen.

ok I just went to check a targaryen family tree; Martin is mental, he made something up for 20 generations at least lol.
I am always very confused about the targaryens... who is supposed to be still alive other than daenerys and this old guy???? who is he, her grandfather?

I think you are the only person I know who absolutely hates the Wall story line. I admit it is a bit slow at times but I thoroughly enjoy it.

I believe he is her great great uncle but he might be her great great great uncle. He is supposed to be 112 after all (The oldest man in Westeros).

They actually revealed that he was a Targaryen in Season 1. Back when Jon was in a fluster because Eddard had been beheaded and Robb was going to war, Aemon talked to him. Basically he said something along the lines of how 4 times in his life he had been tempted to leave the wall because enemies had tried to kill his brother or his nephew or his grandnephew. He went on to talk about how Robert Baratheon killed one of his relatives on the Trident (which is about the point where Jon started to put two and two together) and how his brother Egg (Aegon the Unlikely from the Dunk and Egg side story. He was called that because he was the 5th child of the third son of the Targaryen king. His father wasn't supposed to ever become king and when he did his other brothers were supposed to have taken it up (one or two did but one died without legitimate offspring and the other killed himself drinking wyldfire and his son was passed over in the succession line) before him.) was scared of ruling the seven kingdoms and the advice he gave to him. Anyways the point he was trying to make was that all men are tested by family but they must stick true to their oaths.

I would have liked to see Arya but there isn't really anything important left to tell of the Sansa or Daenerys story line this season (at least I don't think there is) and nothing that is worth two episodes of material. Actually now that I think about it the same can probably be said of Arya's storyline. It will only be Brienne's story line that has much meat left and Brienne's will probably only really pick up next season.

[betiko]

yes I forgot about it, and I m pretty sure that at the time I didn't really pay attention to who the relatives he was talking about could be.

It's not really that I hate the wall storyline but I'd like to see jon snow break his stupid oath and just walk around westeros for adventure with his sister arya and their wolf pack (where the hell is arya's wolf? I think I'm going to ask a spoil on this: will it come back or can I just forget about it?)

so where is stannis by now? devos managed to open a new credit on his bank account to buy some cool stuff. Isn't he supposed to go help out on the wall? I thought he would be there at the end of the episode with his army...

[patches70]

It's not really that I hate the wall storyline but I'd like to see jon snow break his stupid oath and just walk around westeros for adventure with his sister arya and their wolf pack (where the hell is arya's wolf? I think I'm going to ask a spoil on this: will it come back or can I just forget about it?)

Hints have been dropped about where Nymeria is. If you recall Arya made Nymeria run away to avoid being killed by Lannister men for attacking Jeoffry.

During the war there were rumors of large packs of wolves roaming about and it was often Lannister men who found themselves on the wrong end of fangs. But I'm pretty sure the wolf pack is killing just about anyone they come across. All this has been mentioned in various episodes.

When she was sent away Arya, Nymeria went out and dominated another wolf pack and continues to dominate any other wolves she comes across, increasing the pack size. It's a veritable wolf army roaming about. And that's where Arya's wolf is, out fighting the good fight.

The books provide some other insights, but nothing really concrete about what's up with Nymeria. The only thing known for sure about her is that she is still alive. And she's very sad and very angry. Just look at her poor face-

Arya says goodbye to Nymeria

[patches70]

yes I forgot about it, and I m pretty sure that at the time I didn't really pay attention to who the relatives he was talking about could be.

Aemon is over a 100 years old. He was born in 198AC and the battle of the wall happens in 300AC. Just a little factoid, the dude is older than dirty underwear.

so where is stannis by now? devos managed to open a new credit on his bank account to buy some cool stuff. Isn't he supposed to go help out on the wall? I thought he would be there at the end of the episode with his army...

Ain't no one who's read the books gonna tell you. You'll learn soon enough if you just keep watching GoT, all your questions will be answered. Of course, then you'll have new questions, but such is the nature of GoT.

[betiko]

It's not really that I hate the wall storyline but I'd like to see jon snow break his stupid oath and just walk around westeros for adventure with his sister arya and their wolf pack (where the hell is arya's wolf? I think I'm going to ask a spoil on this: will it come back or can I just forget about it?)

Hints have been dropped about where Nymeria is. If you recall Arya made Nymeria run away to avoid being killed by Lannister men for attacking Jeoffry.

During the war there were rumors of large packs of wolves roaming about and it was often Lannister men who found themselves on the wrong end of fangs. But I'm pretty sure the wolf pack is killing just about anyone they come across. All this has been mentioned in various episodes.

When she was sent away Arya, Nymeria went out and dominated another wolf pack and continues to dominate any other wolves she comes across, increasing the pack size. It's a veritable wolf army roaming about. And that's where Arya's wolf is, out fighting the good fight.

The books provide some other insights, but nothing really concrete about what's up with Nymeria. The only thing known for sure about her is that she is still alive. And she's very sad and very angry.

so basically arya is just going to kick ass with a freaking army of wolves sooner or later, woohooo! sounds promissing, just hope it happens. hope they'll get a chew on daenery's dragons.

[patches70]

so basically arya is just going to kick ass with a freaking army of wolves sooner or later, woohooo! sounds promissing, just hope it happens. hope they'll get a chew on daenery's dragons.

Hey! I never implied that, nor meant to. Maybe that'll happen, but I dunno, I wouldn't bet on that though.

Betiko, I can say with confidence that we'll see Nymeria again, maybe eve as soon as next season. Nymeria does a few things of import.

I have no idea what's going to become of Nymeria nor what her role will be in the unfolding drama. The only things for sure is that Nymeria is the leader of a large wolf pack (and getting larger) and that pack is tearing through the Riverlands, The Trident and there about hunting and eating everything they come across. People, dogs, sheep, cows, rabbits, virtually anything they find, they kill and eat. Attempts have been, and will continue to be, made to exterminate the wolf pack, but those attempts have been roundly defeated.

[Gillipig]

I'm sorry if I'm being the boring complainer here but I really didn't like the latest episode. It seemed empty of anything other than battle and Sam finding out he's a man basically. If he had done that earlier in his life he wouldn't even be there, I'm sorry but I don't feel much pity for Sam, he was born the oldest son of a powerul count (or whatever they call a similar rank in Westeros), he had the opportunity to live a much better life than 99.9% of the people in the world, and he screwed it up by being a complete wanker. You can't put a man who's afraid of his own shadow in charge of a county, his father had no choice but to send him to the wall unless he wanted to doom his entire house and family, it was Sam who made him send him to the wall by being such a wuzz. It's not like he gave up on him easily either, he kept trying to get him to become a man but he just never did. How do you guys feel about Sam? Do you have pity for him?

[patches70]

I'm sorry if I'm being the boring complainer here but I really didn't like the latest episode. It seemed empty of anything other than battle and Sam finding out he's a man basically. If he had done that earlier in his life he wouldn't even be there, I'm sorry but I don't feel much pity for Sam, he was born the oldest son of a powerul count (or whatever they call a similar rank in Westeros), he had the opportunity to live a much better life than 99.9% of the people in the world, and he screwed it up by being a complete wanker. You can't put a man who's afraid of his own shadow in charge of a county, his father had no choice but to send him to the wall unless he wanted to doom his entire house and family, it was Sam who made him send him to the wall by being such a wuzz. It's not like he gave up on him easily either, he kept trying to get him to become a man but he just never did. How do you guys feel about Sam? Do you have pity for him?

Sam is the quintessential hero. He isn't particularly brave, he isn't good with a sword, he doesn't know much about tactics or strategy, but he faces the enemy regardless.

For someone like Jon Snow, all noble, well trained and capable, it's no big deal for him to be brave and strong in the face of a terrible enemy.

It is a far greater thing for someone like Sam to face white walkers than for someone like Jon Snow.

If you are being robbed and a police officer comes to save you, you are thankful. But you understand that it's the officer's job to do such a thing.
If you are being mugged and a stranger off the street comes to your rescue, you are thankful yes, but your hope in humanity is given a boost as well. For what the stranger did was above and beyond, unlike the police officer who is expected.

Does that difference make sense?



Sam's all right, IMO. I don't pity him because he requires no pity. He wasn't built to be a Lord I suppose, it wasn't his fate. His fate went through the Night Watch and who is one to argue against fate?
Sam is evolving. No different than Sansa evolving or other characters who begin as one person and through trials and tribulations become someone else.
He's a more cerebral person than Jon Snow. Sam is probably going to be pretty darn important to how things end, maybe even more so than Jon Snow. I guess we'll see.

[Gillipig]

I'm sorry if I'm being the boring complainer here but I really didn't like the latest episode. It seemed empty of anything other than battle and Sam finding out he's a man basically. If he had done that earlier in his life he wouldn't even be there, I'm sorry but I don't feel much pity for Sam, he was born the oldest son of a powerul count (or whatever they call a similar rank in Westeros), he had the opportunity to live a much better life than 99.9% of the people in the world, and he screwed it up by being a complete wanker. You can't put a man who's afraid of his own shadow in charge of a county, his father had no choice but to send him to the wall unless he wanted to doom his entire house and family, it was Sam who made him send him to the wall by being such a wuzz. It's not like he gave up on him easily either, he kept trying to get him to become a man but he just never did. How do you guys feel about Sam? Do you have pity for him?

Sam is the quintessential hero. He isn't particularly brave, he isn't good with a sword, he doesn't know much about tactics or strategy, but he faces the enemy regardless.

For someone like Jon Snow, all noble, well trained and capable, it's no big deal for him to be brave and strong in the face of a terrible enemy.

It is a far greater thing for someone like Sam to face white walkers than for someone like Jon Snow.

If you are being robbed and a police officer comes to save you, you are thankful. But you understand that it's the officer's job to do such a thing.
If you are being mugged and a stranger off the street comes to your rescue, you are thankful yes, but your hope in humanity is given a boost as well. For what the stranger did was above and beyond, unlike the police officer who is expected.

Does that difference make sense?

Nope, because Sam was raised in a castle as well, not only was he raised in one, he was the heir to it, John Snow was heir to...snow?
The reason Sam isn't as brave and courageful as John is not because he didn't have the chance to, which is the case for many others on the wall, Sam Tarly had every chance of becoming a great knight like many in his family, who are known for their bravery, (do you remember King Robert talking about his first kill? How it was an ambitious Tarly who sought him up on the battlefield and wanted to end the war and kill uprising at it's cradle?)
Sam had every chance of becoming just as brave as John, but he's a lesser man who didn't make use of his opportunities. This is why I don't feel much pity for him, he isn't some poor bloke who never had any chances in life and who just got unlucky, he's the Westeros equivalent to the son of a billionaire who managed to go broke.

Sam's all right, IMO. I don't pity him because he requires no pity. He wasn't built to be a Lord I suppose, it wasn't his fate. His fate went through the Night Watch and who is one to argue against fate?
Sam is evolving. No different than Sansa evolving or other characters who begin as one person and through trials and tribulations become someone else.
He's a more cerebral person than Jon Snow. Sam is probably going to be pretty darn important to how things end, maybe even more so than Jon Snow. I guess we'll see.

I'm just bothered by that we're supposed to feel sorry for this guy when unlike so many others his problems were selfinduced.

[strike wolf]

I'm sorry if I'm being the boring complainer here but I really didn't like the latest episode. It seemed empty of anything other than battle and Sam finding out he's a man basically. If he had done that earlier in his life he wouldn't even be there, I'm sorry but I don't feel much pity for Sam, he was born the oldest son of a powerul count (or whatever they call a similar rank in Westeros), he had the opportunity to live a much better life than 99.9% of the people in the world, and he screwed it up by being a complete wanker. You can't put a man who's afraid of his own shadow in charge of a county, his father had no choice but to send him to the wall unless he wanted to doom his entire house and family, it was Sam who made him send him to the wall by being such a wuzz. It's not like he gave up on him easily either, he kept trying to get him to become a man but he just never did. How do you guys feel about Sam? Do you have pity for him?

Sam is the quintessential hero. He isn't particularly brave, he isn't good with a sword, he doesn't know much about tactics or strategy, but he faces the enemy regardless.

For someone like Jon Snow, all noble, well trained and capable, it's no big deal for him to be brave and strong in the face of a terrible enemy.

It is a far greater thing for someone like Sam to face white walkers than for someone like Jon Snow.

If you are being robbed and a police officer comes to save you, you are thankful. But you understand that it's the officer's job to do such a thing.
If you are being mugged and a stranger off the street comes to your rescue, you are thankful yes, but your hope in humanity is given a boost as well. For what the stranger did was above and beyond, unlike the police officer who is expected.

Does that difference make sense?

Nope, because Sam was raised in a castle as well, not only was he raised in one, he was the heir to it, John Snow was heir to...snow?
The reason Sam isn't as brave and courageful as John is not because he didn't have the chance to, which is the case for many others on the wall, Sam Tarly had every chance of becoming a great knight like many in his family, who are known for their bravery, (do you remember King Robert talking about his first kill? How it was an ambitious Tarly who sought him up on the battlefield and wanted to end the war and kill uprising at it's cradle?)
Sam had every chance of becoming just as brave as John, but he's a lesser man who didn't make use of his opportunities. This is why I don't feel much pity for him, he isn't some poor bloke who never had any chances in life and who just got unlucky, he's the Westeros equivalent to the son of a billionaire who managed to go broke.

That is more what i felt towards Sam at the beginning but I like him more now. Really if he had a friend like Jon growing up though he could have been a great lord. He's smart enough to make it and would at least be able to talk to the knights under him like he can now.

Now I like Jon Snow because he did make what he could with what he had with the sword and his code of honor. I think it is selling him short to say that it is no big deal. Jon is good with a sword but if this season has proven anything, it's that he's not the best. He knows that too and yet he still doesn't hesitate to go after the more dangerous foes that present themselves. Jon didn't walk up to The Magnar of Thenn because he knew he could beat him. He walked up to him knowing that someone had to kill him and knowing that he could be killed in that fight.

[strike wolf]

But if we are going with the people that never learned how to fight in a castle originally but still shows courage than look no further than poor old Grenn who fought the king of the giants in a tunnel rallying the men behind him. Of course he also earned his nickname "aurochs" choosing not to bring any cross bows...

[betiko]

I pretty much agree with what gillipig said. Not an interesting episode (mostly after episode 8 that was just huge).
Sam isn t a very interesting character in my opinion so far, and for me he didn t break through in this episode the way sansa did in the previous episode.
I m actually quite pissed because there is just one episode left now... You guys are going to turn me into one of these book readers!! Lol.

[nagerous]

Fighting giants riding on mammoths. Death and destruction at Castle Black. Wildings and thenns storming the castle.

Was absolutely sick, you guys clearly have too high standards.