HONEYCOMBS [Abondoned]

[gimil]

once a foundry pro speaks theres no gonig back

[KLOBBER]

Dear Gimil,

You wrote:

"there no point your not taking in the information people are giving you. before anyone else will make another suggestion untill you listen to what the foundry are saying jsut now. people here support your idea and are tring there best to help but your not taknig any of this in, therefor your map will not make it untill to learn to adapt"

After painstakingly deciphering your post, I have come to the surprising conclusion that you are attempting to suggest that I have not read, thoroughly cogitated, digested, and responded to the 4 suggestions repeated over and over again here in this forum.

I would like to point out to you that I have carefully absorbed all of the points made in all the posts here, and I have taken them in and given all of them a great deal of time and thoughtful consideration. I have thanked the posters profusely for their kind suggestions, and, in accordance with the Foundry's guidelines, I have responded with appropriate logical rebuttals for each and every one of them. I have even done the repetitive posters a favor by going out of my usual habit and repeating my rebuttals when the senseless repetitions of the same 4 suggestions reached a critical mass.

I'm keeping two copies of all of the suggestions made by the kind and wise posters here; one is in my hard drive, and the other is in my heart. I have left a digital trail of the suggestions, collecting them all together, and displaying them here in several posts, to let you know that I have read, absorbed, understood, and responded to them.

In short, I am in the process of following, to the letter, the appropriate and sufficient steps as they are outlined in the Foundry guidelines. I will be happy to post a link to them if you think you might require a refresher.

Thank you very much,

Klobber

[gimil]

Please do try to adapt for your own sake! We all support each other in here in our crazy FORUM way.

and then MIBI does this:

lol... if you refuse to make any changes beyond your first draft, then this map is going nowhere.

take a look at any of the threads with Forge in the title. this process takes months of revision.


p.s.
Your sniffling rebuttals are a joke. not only does this map completely suck in its current state, but your inability to see that just reinforces your incompetence as a map maker.

landgrab.net is your calling.

lol

[gimil]

This rebuttal must be stated either by you, or argued by another Foundry poster who sees the drawbacks or shortcomings in said advice.

there is no drawbacks to the advice given. All the advice will only further development of your map

[KLOBBER]

...not only does this map completely suck in its current state, but your inability to see that just reinforces your incompetence....

It's nice to see some old-fashioned anger, profanity, and ad hominem attacking now and then.

In addition to detracting from any valid points that the angry man might attempt to make, it also reminds me of the more carefree days of my youth....

Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. If the posters have shot their proverbial "wads" with a grand total of 4 suggestions repeated multiple times, and this thread is about to go downhill into even lower-class emotionalism than the above quoted, then I will proceed uphill from here.

Conversely, if anyone would care to add a 5th suggestion to the list, I'm all ears.

Thank you very much,

Klobber

[mibi]

...not only does this map completely suck in its current state, but your inability to see that just reinforces your incompetence....

It's nice to see some old-fashioned anger, profanity, and ad hominem attacking* now and then.

In addition to detracting from any valid points that the angry man might attempt to make, it also reminds me of my carefree youth....

Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. If the posters have shot their proverbial "wads" with a grand total of 4 suggestions repeated multiple times, and this thread is about to go downhill into even lower-class emotionalism than the above quoted, then I will proceed uphill from here.

Conversely, if anyone would care to add a 5th suggestion to the list, I'm all ears.

Thank you very much,

Klobber

ha... I will forgive your neophyte status on in this forum and on this site. The bottom line klobber, is that your map is not up current foundry standards in terms of graphics and playability. I know this is something you do not want to accept, as is evidence by your laughable condescension of how this process works. Im sorry, but your sub standard map will never make it onto CC in its current state. I will also say that if the map's graphics and a game play improve it will still suffer from a fundamental flaw, that it's boring. Playing on a symmetrical map of a bunch of hexagon that resembles a honeycomb doesn't do much for me. Strategy is limited and the wins and losses will largely be determined by starting position and luck of the dice. I suggest you hang around the foundry a while longer, understand the process we have here, and try again.

Or, you can take your lofty high road and avoid the plebeian emotionalism that goes on here. I doubt the foundry will miss your unfounded contemptuous attitude, your mediocre graphical ability, and your lack of imagination and originality.

whoops, was that ad hominem... cover thyne eyes!

[KLOBBER]

Dear Mibi,

I hope this post meets you in excellent bodily health and top physical condition.

Thank you for your kindness upon this ignorant soul. Here's a small gift for you:

http://www.angermgmt.com

I wish you all the best in your recovery.

Thank you very much,

Klobber

[mibi]

Dear Mibi,

I hope this post meets you in excellent bodily health and top physical condition.

Thank you for your kindness upon this ignorant soul. Here's a small gift for you:

http://www.angermgmt.com

I wish you all the best in your recovery.

Thank you very much,

Klobber

Im not quite sure what about my post would give the impression that I am angry. I pity your stubbornness and hardships that will come to you with your attitude.

but it's nice to see you lower yourself to the ad hominem attacks you were once above.

at least mine were somewhat accurate.

[beav77]

KLOBBER-your map sucks right now, if you don't listen to these opinions and adjust accordingly, your map will go no where. but if you wish to be stubborn and resist change, enjoy your picture, because that is all it will be. and you cant compare your map with classic. though classic doesn't have impenetrable borders, it also isn't constructed of evenly shaped and distributed hexagons with even number of countries per bonus. basically classic's shape and layout allow for great strategizing, while yours as of now allows for great suckability. and yes, i realize neither of those are actual words

[WidowMakers]

EVERYONE, LISTEN UP.

Until he updates the picture to the suggestions, no one else should post anything. He can sit and complain all he wants and give everyone reasons why he does not need to change. Let him.

It is a good start to a map that may have some good game play and graphics.

LISTEN TO THE FORUM OR YOUR MAP IS DOOMED.

EDIT: Can we get Andy or Keyogi in here to explain the issue of not listening to the forum and why that is not the way the map making works?

[dolemite]

I'm pretty sure he is trolling.

[KLOBBER]

Dear Posters,

Thank you for all your kind and intelligent suggestions.

I have vigilantly read all suggestions posted so far and taken them all under serious consideration. After carefully and thoughtfully delving deep into the wise words of the other posters, I have discovered that the same suggestions, numbering a mere 4 suggestions in total, keep coming up over and over again, with slightly different wording each time. This phenomenon continues even though I have already, in accordance with the Foundry’s guidelines, submitted appropriate rebuttals to each and every one of them.

I’m not as fond of repetition as the other posters here seem to be, but there is an old saying that goes, “When in Rome, do as the Romans,” and so I have decided to repeat my logical rebuttals as well. Please bear in mind that this type of repetition is somewhat of a departure for me, and although I personally find repetition to be annoying and possibly even a sign of compromised intelligence, still, I am compelled to do so by circumstances beyond my control.



I’ve carefully collected them and placed them together in condensed form, here in this post, for your convenient, and possibly repetitive, perusal. All four suggestions follow, with their respective logical rebuttals attached, below:


Beginning of Suggestions/Logical Rebuttals


1. Map Size –

I was thinking about the size too, but I compared the size of the cells to the size of the circular shadow regions on the standard map, placing them right next to each other on the same computer screen, and by the application of sufficient intelligence, I can understand that they will fit perfectly. Feel free to check it using the same method, if you are equipped to do so, and when you’re finished, come back and tell me what you can understand from it, if anything.

In accordance with the Foundry’s guidelines, which state that the map should be no more than 350 pixels high so that players will not have to scroll down to play, I have limited it to 350. This map will avoid that scrolling annoyance.

2. Color Distinction –

This is an aspect of this map to which I have dedicated a great deal of valuable time, careful thought, and deep contemplation. There is a scaled-down guide to the left, in the exact shape of the playing board, in which the colors are extremely distinct, unique, and vibrantly contrasted to one another. This guide is one of the great features of this map not available on any others, and being an exact replica in shape, this will be an excellent guide to keep players well-informed of their options in regards to continents and bonuses.

The ten regions (combs) on the playing board, in and of themselves, are quite clear and easy to distinguish from one another. In addition to this, there is a unique and innovative continent guide just centimeters to the left of the playing board, and so even newcomers to the site will have no trouble at all playing this map in an efficient and well-organized manner – yes, even newcomers.

As if that were not enough, the shadow regions will cover the cells almost entirely, and when the cells of each comb are thus tinted a darker color, they will appear even yet more distinct from the cells of the other combs than they already do, which is saying a lot.

3. Impenetrable Borders –

It was perhaps Gimil who repeated this suggestion the most colorfully when he ejaculated the following compellingly emotional, though inaccurate, appeal:

"the 1st thing the foundry asked you to do is add boundrys...." [sic]

I would like to point out that some maps on this site have impenetrable borders, and others do not. Actually, there is simply no such requirement. Also, I would like to point out that the Classic Map, which is the single most popularly played map on the site, does not include any impenetrable borders at all.

4. Legend Size –

Note: This is not a serious suggestion; it is actually rather silly, but I have included it in this short list only for the sake of thoroughness of my response.

The legend will not interfere with game play at its present size, nor would it interfere with game play if it were even larger. Also, the Foundry requires a legend to be part of the map.


End of Suggestions/Logical Rebuttals


If there are any new suggestions that anyone would like to add to this short list, I would appreciate the opportunity to compose a new logical rebuttal. Otherwise, feel free to keep repeating the old ones. The senseless repetition annoyed me a little at the beginning, but I'm actually starting to get used to it now.

...and now that I have once again responded with logical rebuttals to any and all suggestions, both serious and silly, in accordance with the Foundry's guidelines, let the senseless repetition of the same tired old suggestions and the un-called-for personal insults flow like wine!

Thank you very much,

Klobber

[johloh]

in accordance with the Foundry's guidelines, let the senseless repetition of the same tired old suggestions and the un-called-for personal insults flow like wine!

oh theyre coming...

while you have provided 'logical rebuttals' that doesnt mean youre right. see how everyone disagrees with you? that might tell you something.

'i just like it this way' is by all means a logical rebuttal, however lets see how fast your map gets on the site....

instead of noobing it up and continuing to argue that your map is good maybe you should look around and realize how terrible it really is...

its amazing but in only being in the foundry a few days I think you might have just topped my list as the most annoying person posting.

[johloh]

Until he updates the picture to the suggestions, no one else should post anything.

sorry widow, i just cant help myself...

[Jmey]

i first thought that this map would be a great map to play and i still do... there are the few problems here and there...

i noticed you mentioned that the Legend wouldnt affect the size and gameplay of the map, but alternatively other posters have suggested to you that you should resize your legend so it would be smaller... yes it may not effect the gameplay at all at its current size but who are the poeple who are going to play on this map? you should listen to their ideas and suggestions... you cant expect to be 100% correct and perfect the first time... even in nature nothing is perfect, theres always an inbalance... even with other maps there are normally inbalances and unfairities, i therefore think you should possibly redesign your current idea to the posters views.

your colour scheme is also, even though i found it 'funky ', needs improving... the background colour mixes with the gameplay colour making it look to bland... also your blue isnt blue... its more green than any other colour, i do supose diffrent people have diffrent perceceptions of your map but i believe majority so far have been against you, i do not meen any offence but i think you should adapt (that word) to other peoples ideas and change your map.

you also mentioned about the original world map, yes it may not have impenatrable borders but it is neither symetrical either... the original world map has borders that do not exacly directly conect to the same amount of borders as others... E.G. south africa compared with green land, there uneven and even yet greenland isnt counted for part of a bonus, nothing is perfect, yes bee hives have hexagonal cells in theme which are symetrical but are the hives themselves (outside look) perfect? they get wethered and tatered, even base-balled on a number of times...

finaly, your map is quite good and i would love to play it but, like it has been mentioned before, it would get out of style fast... say a week or 2... the map as i can see is well planed out and vibrant in its uniquity and im sure it would be a lovely map to play although for the few problems like the colour... maybe its a tad to bright? i respect your stuborness and although i urge you to change your ideas and plans for the map, in the end its down to you to decide weither your going to listen to us or not...

okay im through, man that was time consuming... i'v haven't writen something like this in a while

Jmey

P.S
sorry if its a drag to read and for the occasional spelling mistake

[nagerous]

i first thought that this map would be a great map to play and i still do... there are the few problems here and there...

i noticed you mentioned that the Legend wouldnt affect the size and gameplay of the map, but alternatively other posters have suggested to you that you should resize your legend so it would be smaller... yes it may not effect the gameplay at all at its current size but who are the poeple who are going to play on this map? you should listen to their ideas and suggestions... you cant expect to be 100% correct and perfect the first time... even in nature nothing is perfect, theres always an inbalance... even with other maps there are normally inbalances and unfairities, i therefore think you should possibly redesign your current idea to the posters views.

your colour scheme is also, even though i found it 'funky ', needs improving... the background colour mixes with the gameplay colour making it look to bland... also your blue isnt blue... its more green than any other colour, i do supose diffrent people have diffrent perceceptions of your map but i believe majority so far have been against you, i do not meen any offence but i think you should adapt (that word) to other peoples ideas and change your map.

you also mentioned about the original world map, yes it may not have impenatrable borders but it is neither symetrical either... the original world map has borders that do not exacly directly conect to the same amount of borders as others... E.G. south africa compared with green land, there uneven and even yet greenland isnt counted for part of a bonus, nothing is perfect, yes bee hives have hexagonal cells in theme which are symetrical but are the hives themselves (outside look) perfect? they get wethered and tatered, even base-balled on a number of times...

finaly, your map is quite good and i would love to play it but, like it has been mentioned before, it would get out of style fast... say a week or 2... the map as i can see is well planed out and vibrant in its uniquity and im sure it would be a lovely map to play although for the few problems like the colour... maybe its a tad to bright? i respect your stuborness and although i urge you to change your ideas and plans for the map, in the end its down to you to decide weither your going to listen to us or not...

okay im through, man that was time consuming... i'v haven't writen something like this in a while

Jmey

P.S
sorry if its a drag to read and for the occasional spelling mistake

nice essay Jmey but I'm afraid hes just not going to listen to you, his beligerent style of ignoring requests is inevitably going to result in a map like this never being avaliable for live play

in regards to "logical rebuttal" 1. It doesn't matter that the circles can fit in your honeycomb shapes the fact of the matter is the main honeycomb map part is too small for people to see, some people suffer from poor vision and to play on a map that is so small will be a hindrance to them

3. in regards to impenetrable borders, the reason classic map doesn't have them is because most the continents bar asia have only three or less borders. You have several continents with 5 borders and this results in poor gameplay

[KLOBBER]

Dear Posters,

Thank you for all your kind and intelligent suggestions.... Okay, let me check... no, still no new suggestions, just repetitions of the old ones, yet again.

I have vigilantly read all suggestions posted so far and taken them all under serious consideration. After carefully and thoughtfully delving deep into the wise words of the other posters, I have discovered that the same suggestions, numbering a mere 4 suggestions in total, keep coming up over and over again, with slightly different wording each time. This phenomenon continues even though I have already, in accordance with the Foundry’s guidelines, submitted appropriate rebuttals to each and every one of them.

I’m not as fond of repetition as the other posters here seem to be, but there is an old saying that goes, “When in Rome, do as the Romans,” and so I have decided to repeat my logical rebuttals as well. Please bear in mind that this type of repetition is somewhat of a departure for me, and although I personally find repetition to be annoying and possibly even a sign of compromised intelligence, still, I am compelled to do so by circumstances beyond my control.



I’ve carefully collected them and placed them together in condensed form, here in this post, for your convenient, and possibly repetitive, perusal. All four suggestions follow, with their respective logical rebuttals attached, below:


Beginning of Suggestions/Logical Rebuttals


1. Map Size –

I was thinking about the size too, but I compared the size of the cells to the size of the circular shadow regions on the standard map, placing them right next to each other on the same computer screen, and by the application of sufficient intelligence, I can understand that they will fit perfectly. Feel free to check it using the same method, if you are equipped to do so, and when you’re finished, come back and tell me what you can understand from it, if anything.

In accordance with the Foundry’s guidelines, which state that the map should be no more than 350 pixels high so that players will not have to scroll down to play, I have limited it to 350. This map will avoid that scrolling annoyance.

2. Color Distinction –

This is an aspect of this map to which I have dedicated a great deal of valuable time, careful thought, and deep contemplation. There is a scaled-down guide to the left, in the exact shape of the playing board, in which the colors are extremely distinct, unique, and vibrantly contrasted to one another. This guide is one of the great features of this map not available on any others, and being an exact replica in shape, this will be an excellent guide to keep players well-informed of their options in regards to continents and bonuses.

The ten regions (combs) on the playing board, in and of themselves, are quite clear and easy to distinguish from one another. In addition to this, there is a unique and innovative continent guide just centimeters to the left of the playing board, and so even newcomers to the site will have no trouble at all playing this map in an efficient and well-organized manner – yes, even newcomers.

As if that were not enough, the shadow regions will cover the cells almost entirely, and when the cells of each comb are thus tinted a darker color, they will appear even yet more distinct from the cells of the other combs than they already do, which is saying a lot.

3. Impenetrable Borders –

It was perhaps Gimil who repeated this suggestion the most colorfully when he ejaculated the following compellingly emotional, though inaccurate, appeal:

"the 1st thing the foundry asked you to do is add boundrys...." [sic]

I would like to point out that some maps on this site have impenetrable borders, and others do not. Actually, there is simply no such requirement. Also, I would like to point out that the Classic Map, which is the single most popularly played map on the site, does not include any impenetrable borders at all.

4. Legend Size –

Note: This is not a serious suggestion; it is actually rather silly, but I have included it in this short list only for the sake of thoroughness of my response.

The legend will not interfere with game play at its present size, nor would it interfere with game play if it were even larger. Also, the Foundry requires a legend to be part of the map.


End of Suggestions/Logical Rebuttals


If there are any new suggestions that anyone would like to add to this short list, I would appreciate the opportunity to compose a new logical rebuttal. Otherwise, feel free to keep repeating the old ones. The senseless repetition annoyed me a little at the beginning, but I'm actually starting to get used to it now.

...and now that I have once again responded with logical rebuttals to any and all suggestions, both serious and silly, in accordance with the Foundry's guidelines, let the senseless repetition of the same tired old suggestions and the un-called-for personal insults flow like wine!

Thank you very much,

Klobber

[nagerous]

YOU DIDN'T EVEN READ MINE AND JMEY'S POSTS, IT EXPLAINS WHY YOUR POINTS 1 AND 3 ARE WRONG EITHER MAKE THE CHANGES OR TAKE YOUR MAP TO LANDGRAB.NET your map will never be put on this website otherwise its not how the map foundry works

[johloh]

I have vigilantly read all suggestions posted so far and taken them all under serious consideration.

"and determined that my map is perfect and youre all wrong"

haha. i love this guy...he cracks me up.

[wcaclimbing]

LOL. his message is just the same one every time, with a few words changed.

I vote ignore this map.

[KLOBBER]

Still no new suggestions, still only the 4 -- that's good news!

I'm very happy that I have correctly followed the Foundry guidelines and successfully responded to each of the 4 suggestions with logical rebuttals, and so far there seem to be no new suggestions forthcoming. I'll give it a while; I have time.

The mindless repetitions of the old, successfully refuted suggestions also seem to be tapering off. I guess people of all classes and IQ's, both high and low, realize, sooner or later, that once someone has heard your opinion and responded accordingly, there is really no sense in stating the same opinion again and again and again. Some people seem to realize this fact more slowly than others, but it seems as though they do eventually catch on.

As I have a life elsewhere, I don't take this site as seriously as some people seem to take it. The emotional attachment and the spewing of hateful comments totally irrelevant to the issue under discussion are uncomely to say the least, but still, I must admit that I am happy about these developments.

I know that being under the control of anger is an unpleasant feeling, and actually, it can even cause physical illness; I used to get that way when I was younger. I'm glad that I'm not so easily controlled by anger any more.

I suggest to anyone who might feel the bile of anger eating away at them from within to try to make peace with yourself and just let it go; I promise that you'll feel much better.

Although anger is like a disease, it can only be contagious if you allow it to be. As for me, I am unaffected by baseless personal insults from total strangers. I return compliments, time-tested solutions to the anger problem, and good will, and realize that it's not what others do in an attempt to offend or hurt you, but it's how you respond to those attempts that really matters.

I find it fascinating, like an anthropological study of sorts, that it took 4 pages to spew out a mere 4 suggestions. I figure that 4 short sentences should have been enough to accomplish what has been accomplished here, but "to each his own," I guess!

Thank you very much,

Klobber

[nagerous]

Developmental maps will be discussed in length in the Foundry, in their respective topics. Cartographers must be open to any advice and suggestions. Be sure that if you do not implement said advice you must have logical reason for doing so. This rebuttal must be stated either by you, or argued by another Foundry poster who sees the drawbacks or shortcomings in said advice. There will be no rebuttals of ‘It’s my map, let me do it my way.’ Waiting for feedback on your map is the one of the most important parts of development.

you suggest you have given logical rebuttals, however these are merely opinions and if the majority of people including prominent mapmakers like johloh and mibi suggest your map is unfit to play then the map is unfit to play. Your arguments are flawed and there is no point copy and pasting the same essay several times as that will get you nowhere. I suggest a mod put a lock on this thread until you are willing to compromise

[beav77]

Still no new suggestions, still only the 4 -- that's good news!

I'm very happy that I have correctly followed the Foundry guidelines and successfully responded to each of the 4 suggestions with logical rebuttals, and so far there seem to be no new suggestions forthcoming. I'll give it a while; I have time.

The mindless repetitions of the old, successfully refuted suggestions also seem to be tapering off. I guess people of all classes and IQ's, both high and low, realize, sooner or later, that once someone has heard your opinion and responded accordingly, there is really no sense in stating the same opinion again and again and again. Some people seem to realize this fact more slowly than others, but it seems as though they do eventually catch on.

As I have a life elsewhere, I don't take this site as seriously as some people seem to take it. The emotional attachment and the spewing of hateful comments totally irrelevant to the issue under discussion are uncomely to say the least, but still, I must admit that I am happy about these developments.

I know that being under the control of anger is an unpleasant feeling, and actually, it can even cause physical illness; I used to get that way when I was younger. I'm glad that I'm not so easily controlled by anger any more.

I suggest to anyone who might feel the bile of anger eating away at them from within to try to make peace with yourself and just let it go; I promise that you'll feel much better.

Although anger is like a disease, it can only be contagious if you allow it to be. As for me, I am unaffected by baseless personal insults from total strangers. I return compliments, time-tested solutions to the anger problem, and good will, and realize that it's not what others do in an attempt to offend or hurt you, but it's how you respond to those attempts that really matters.

I find it fascinating, like an anthropological study of sorts, that it took 4 pages to spew out a mere 4 suggestions. I figure that 4 short sentences should have been enough to accomplish what has been accomplished here, but "to each his own," I guess!

Thank you very much,

Klobber

wow

[weirdbro]

Stop being a snob. You aren't even reading the suggestions. The point of logical rebuttals is to convince us you have a good point, even if we disagree. You don't. Stop repeating the same post over and over. Don't be a hypocrite. If other people repeat things and you ignore them, why would they listen to your argument. Except no one agrees with you.

You seem to think that any map that fits certain guidelines will be accepted. The guidelines are just that: guides. The map still needs to be unique, playable, and have good graphics.

If you want your map to be accepted, get used to the fact that you aren't always right. Don't be an asshole and put people down with anger-management links. Just work with them till everyone thinks its a good map, or at least everyone knows that some people will like it. No one will like it as it is.

[KLOBBER]

Don't be an asshole....

This thread has gone much, much lower-class than I had anticipated.

Since it has degraded into immature name-calling (amazingly), and no new suggestions are forthcoming, it looks like it's most likely time to let the thread die and move on to the next stage in the implementation of this map.

It feels better than you may be capable of understanding to watch others become angry and reduce themselves to very immature levels and still be completely unaffected by their bizarre behavior. It's surprisingly uplifting.

As for me, all I have done is follow the guidelines exactly as stated in the Foundry map building information post, and as far as I know, the Foundry does not seem to require map developers to engage in pissing contests with over-aggressive people with anger problems.

Instead, I'll just take it to the next stage, as required in the guidelines.

Thank you very much,

Klobber