foggy games first move?

[iAmCaffeine]

apparently, it is an isolated incident.

so if i make one multi, which is an isolated incident, it should be ok...

You'd get busted, buy back on whichever account you choose and wahey, do what you like.

i am gonna come back as iamcaffeine2k

Probably shouldn't have posted here, now it'll be obvious.

should it be more extravagent than that?

iamcaffeine2K5
or
iamcaffeine3000

PM me for approval.

[betiko]

My take:

1) ronc didn t really know the rule, or doesn t play by this unwritten rule that isn't one, it s just sportsmanship. It should be absolutely normal to have an auto snapshot for any given game when it starts as both players should see the initial board, unfortunately it s not the case so players should just do this out of respect.

2) joriki wants to know the original board, which is a normal request. Ronc doesn t want to because he is unaware of this common gentleman agreement

3) joriki decides to deadbeat the game.

Ronc kind of did a dick move, but he clearly isn t familiar with this gentleman agreement. Joriki s answer to it is totally a dick move.
Conclusions: ronc enjoy the general points, and do apply the unwritten fog rule next time. It just seems fair that you let your opponent know the original drop or that your opponent lets you know the original drop. Refusing to play the game because you didn t get the original snapshot is for little girls though.

[owenshooter]

My take:

1) ronc didn t really know the rule, or doesn t play by this unwritten rule that isn't one, it s just sportsmanship. It should be absolutely normal to have an auto snapshot for any given game when it starts as both players should see the initial board, unfortunately it s not the case so players should just do this out of respect.

2) joriki wants to know the original board, which is a normal request. Ronc doesn t want to because he is unaware of this common gentleman agreement

3) joriki decides to deadbeat the game.

Ronc kind of did a dick move, but he clearly isn t familiar with this gentleman agreement. Joriki s answer to it is totally a dick move.
Conclusions: ronc enjoy the general points, and do apply the unwritten fog rule next time. It just seems fair that you let your opponent know the original drop or that your opponent lets you know the original drop. Refusing to play the game because you didn t get the original snapshot is for little girls though.

sorry, already stated by a C&A mod that this is not a rule and does not have to be followed... disagree with you on this...-Jésus noir

[demonfork]

My take:

1) ronc didn t really know the rule, or doesn t play by this unwritten rule that isn't one, it s just sportsmanship. It should be absolutely normal to have an auto snapshot for any given game when it starts as both players should see the initial board, unfortunately it s not the case so players should just do this out of respect.

2) joriki wants to know the original board, which is a normal request. Ronc doesn t want to because he is unaware of this common gentleman agreement

3) joriki decides to deadbeat the game.

Ronc kind of did a dick move, but he clearly isn t familiar with this gentleman agreement. Joriki s answer to it is totally a dick move.
Conclusions: ronc enjoy the general points, and do apply the unwritten fog rule next time. It just seems fair that you let your opponent know the original drop or that your opponent lets you know the original drop. Refusing to play the game because you didn t get the original snapshot is for little girls though.

BS. This is not a rule, it's not a dick move, it's not for sportsmanship.

It's for pussies.

[BigBallinStalin]

To the barbarians:

Y'all keep arguing that the fog rule is not a formal rule. Everyone knows this, but it misses the point.

The fog rule is an informal rule. Barbarians wouldn't understand what a "gentleman's agreement" means, so I understand y'all's confusion about joriki's attempt to enforce the fog rule.

You see: being a gentlemen involves 'not being a dick'. Y'all disagree because you'd rather violate the (informal) fog rule in order to gain a cheap, dishonorable advantage. I understand that. People within any society can obey the formal rules while violating informal rules.

For example, suppose you hire a few low-skilled laborers at the nearby Home Depot. Y'all agree to $10/hour to clean your yard, and you give them a 5-minute ride to the work site. Then you charge them $10 each for the ride. The informal rule is that the $10/hour wage already bundles in such expenses. They expect the expenses of the ride to be included. A gentleman's agreement involves expectations of mutually good behavior. Of course, your dick move for a cheap advantage very likely does not violate any formal rules of the country. Nevertheless, it doesn't follow that somehow the honorable gentlemen who don't exploit low-skilled laborers are the dicks.

You barbarians are the dicks. It's pretty easy to see this.

[ronsizzle]

To the barbarians:

Y'all keep arguing that the fog rule is not a formal rule. Everyone knows this, but it misses the point.

The fog rule is an informal rule. Barbarians wouldn't understand what a "gentleman's agreement" means, so I understand y'all's confusion about joriki's attempt to enforce the fog rule.

You see: being a gentlemen involves 'not being a dick'. Y'all disagree because you'd rather violate the (informal) fog rule in order to gain a cheap, dishonorable advantage. I understand that. People within any society can obey the formal rules while violating informal rules.

For example, suppose you hire a few low-skilled laborers at the nearby Home Depot. Y'all agree to $10/hour to clean your yard, and you give them a 5-minute ride to the work site. Then you charge them $10 each for the ride. The informal rule is that the $10/hour wage already bundles in such expenses. They expect the expenses of the ride to be included. A gentleman's agreement involves expectations of mutually good behavior. Of course, your dick move for a cheap advantage very likely does not violate any formal rules of the country. Nevertheless, it doesn't follow that somehow the honorable gentlemen who don't exploit low-skilled laborers are the dicks.

You barbarians are the dicks. It's pretty easy to see this.

that was more annoying than any single one thing jefjef ever said. just saying.

[BigBallinStalin]

One can't be kind to barbarians.

[Donelladan]

@ all the so called gentlemen.

Go play out of your small bubble !
There is around 10k players on CC, I do not believe half of them respect this rule.
Few examples, played again a clan player on a 1vs1 tournament with a decent rank recently ( major). He joined the game and played immediately. I wall him asking to reveal what he did, he told me
"there is no fog rule in this tournament". Well, I was unhappy about it, but guess what, he was right!

Another tournament, 2vs2, 3 games at once. I ask my partner to wait 12h to let opponent team have a snap . He did it but told me " why there is no fog rule ?" and btw next turn of the tourney, opponent team started 2/3 games - they didn't wait a single minute either. Both were clans player as well.

This was with people knowing this kind of rule exists some time. Now we all know even in the clan world not everyone does respect or agree to this rule.

Got myself playing around 30 trench poly 2 foggy games last week. Not even once did any of my opponents gave me time for a snap.


So gotta say, jorikia, kaskavel, BBS, betiko and all of those thinking like you - go play in the real world. Only games with very high rank and clan games do follow the fog rules. This is a very small minority of the games played.


--------------

Concerning the C and A case, i am wondering how the mods can be so much out of their mind.
This is very obvious intentionnal deadbeating. Poly 4 meaning 12 missed before the games end !
I've got nothing against joriki - but Noted was the very minimum.

I am utterly surprised. This is total non-sense decision. Might as well get rid of the rule.

[Donelladan]

I, unfortunately, can't post in C and A because the topic has been closed. A quote from KA :

Do you guys want to be waiting for 24 hrs while the other player is capable of taking his turn but doesn't want to be bothered with it because he thinks the game is lost already? You will only take turns in games when you think you still have a chance in winning?

This report shall be noted for future reference in case he does this again of leaving the game when he already sees the game is lost.

from this report, in which, for one example, the guy that deadbeat was of course, noted.
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=203948&p=4463650&hilit=deadbeating#p4463650

[betiko]

Don, did you even bother to read my message or you ve just decided to include me in a bag with a label?

I kind of like bbs's example though.

Owen: maybe you should read what i write too. Where did I say it was a rule?

Anyway for those of you with comprehension problems, for me ronc's move was "kind of a dick" because he should know that his opponent not knowing what the initial drop was is kind of an unfair advantage. It s just not very sportsmanlike, nothing more.
Joriki's move is the one of a total crybaby dick, mostly in poly4.

[Donelladan]

Anyway for those of you with comprehension problems, for me ronc's move was "kind of a dick" because he should know that his opponent not knowing what the initial drop was is kind of an unfair advantage. It s just not very sportsmanlike, nothing more.

That's where I disagree. Knowing that the majority of player out of here do not know the existence of the fog rule, and that even amongst those knowing there is a fog rule not everyone agree on its importance, how can you say that ronc should know about it or that it is not very sportsmanlike of him ?
Because majority of high rank player think that it is being a dick not to let your opponent have a snap doesn't make it true for everyone.
There is players that thinks going first immediately in a fog games is fair, it's fog, I start, random luck.
Not the first time this kind of discussion happened, the absence of agreement on it should make it clear no one can't consider being right about it.

So, no, ronc move wasn't a dick move.

Don, did you even bother to read my message or you ve just decided to include me in a bag with a label?

So yes I did, I don't think anyone here is trying to defend what joriki did anyway, so all of you belong in the same bag

[betiko]

Anyway for those of you with comprehension problems, for me ronc's move was "kind of a dick" because he should know that his opponent not knowing what the initial drop was is kind of an unfair advantage. It s just not very sportsmanlike, nothing more.

That's where I disagree. Knowing that the majority of player out of here do not know the existence of the fog rule, and that even amongst those knowing there is a fog rule not everyone agree on its importance, how can you say that ronc should know about it or that it is not very sportsmanlike of him ?
Because majority of high rank player think that it is being a dick not to let your opponent have a snap doesn't make it true for everyone.
There is players that thinks going first immediately in a fog games is fair, it's fog, I start, random luck.
Not the first time this kind of discussion happened, the absence of agreement on it should make it clear no one can't consider being right about it.

So, no, ronc move wasn't a dick move.

Don, did you even bother to read my message or you ve just decided to include me in a bag with a label?

So yes I did, I don't think anyone here is trying to defend what joriki did anyway, so all of you belong in the same bag

i didn't say ronc's move was a dick move, i said it was kind of a dick move, there is a difference. what i think is kind of a dick move is to not telling his opponent what he did. Starting his turn without waiting is fine, as as you said he didn't know/usually played by this rule. joriki would ve obviously told him what he did or copy pasted the log if ronc hadn't seen the original drop and he had started second. It's just about being fair to his opponent. Had he faced an opponent that never does it and had asked him for his original move, I would've been totally fine with ronc not telling him.

[codierose]

@ all the so called gentlemen.

Go play out of your small bubble !
There is around 10k players on CC, I do not believe half of them respect this rule.
Few examples, played again a clan player on a 1vs1 tournament with a decent rank recently ( major). He joined the game and played immediately. I wall him asking to reveal what he did, he told me
"there is no fog rule in this tournament". Well, I was unhappy about it, but guess what, he was right!

Another tournament, 2vs2, 3 games at once. I ask my partner to wait 12h to let opponent team have a snap . He did it but told me " why there is no fog rule ?" and btw next turn of the tourney, opponent team started 2/3 games - they didn't wait a single minute either. Both were clans player as well.

This was with people knowing this kind of rule exists some time. Now we all know even in the clan world not everyone does respect or agree to this rule.

Got myself playing around 30 trench poly 2 foggy games last week. Not even once did any of my opponents gave me time for a snap.


So gotta say, jorikia, kaskavel, BBS, betiko and all of those thinking like you - go play in the real world. Only games with very high rank and clan games do follow the fog rules. This is a very small minority of the games played.


--------------

Concerning the C and A case, i am wondering how the mods can be so much out of their mind.
This is very obvious intentionnal deadbeating. Poly 4 meaning 12 missed before the games end !
I've got nothing against joriki - but Noted was the very minimum.

I am utterly surprised. This is total non-sense decision. Might as well get rid of the rule.

it is NOT a rule never has been. it is a gentlemens agreement with some terms attached, some tourneys and clan wars ask for the 12fog terms to be imposed that's it. if you don't like fog as it is don't play it.

[Donelladan]

Concerning the C and A case, i am wondering how the mods can be so much out of their mind.
This is very obvious intentionnal deadbeating. Poly 4 meaning 12 missed before the games end !
I've got nothing against joriki - but Noted was the very minimum.

I am utterly surprised. This is total non-sense decision. Might as well get rid of the rule.

here i was speaking of the intentionnal deadbeating rule because of the C and A

[codierose]

Hum, sry I wasn't clear, I was speaking of the intentionnal deadbeating rule - concerning the C and A topic.

cool

[_sabotage_]

It's not a rule I have ever come across in the forums or games, except once and then the other player was losing quite badly due to dice and decided to bring it up 3 rounds in.

It would be simple to make a suggestion to have an automatic screenshot for fog games. I suspect the people who would most strongly object to this rule are people like Joriki. He has chosen fog for a strategic advantage. I only take screenshots in multiplayer fog games, and I would guess that quite a few players under major don't take screenshots in such games. As such, an automatic screenshot would somewhat take away his advantage. But if he did object to an automatic screenshot, then the complaint he has is not just invalid, but in itself a dick move, topped by a greater dick move.

Ronc took a single tert on a massive map before Joriki could have gotten a screenshot. Going first was likely a far greater advantage than whatever was hidden due to his move.

[betiko]

It's not a rule I have ever come across in the forums or games, except once and then the other player was losing quite badly due to dice and decided to bring it up 3 rounds in.

It would be simple to make a suggestion to have an automatic screenshot for fog games. I suspect the people who would most strongly object to this rule are people like Joriki. He has chosen fog for a strategic advantage. I only take screenshots in multiplayer fog games, and I would guess that quite a few players under major don't take screenshots in such games. As such, an automatic screenshot would somewhat take away his advantage. But if he did object to an automatic screenshot, then the complaint he has is not just invalid, but in itself a dick move, topped by a greater dick move.

Ronc took a single tert on a massive map before Joriki could have gotten a screenshot. Going first was likely a far greater advantage than whatever was hidden due to his move.

you are way off dude. of course someone like joriki would want to have automatic screenshots pre game, it would avoid all this hassle. Since you didn't understand the point, joriki does that so no one has the unfair advantage of hidding territoires he should have seen when the game started. joriki is a fairplay player and is just intolerant to people who are not. Not going to waste more time explaining obvious things.

[iAmCaffeine]

Typical bullshit. I can't believe someone said joriki shouldn't lose points for the game. Boring.

[richwwtk]

Am I being a bit daft here? The only thing the person going first would see over the person going 2nd at the start of a foggy game are the adjoining territories you hold, and the person going 2nd would know from their logs which these were wouldn't they? Would only be a small advantage if any.

But then again, I'm not sure I take games seriously enough to take screenshots at any stage, which probably explains why my rank never gets that high!

[iAmCaffeine]

Am I being a bit daft here? The only thing the person going first would see over the person going 2nd at the start of a foggy game are the adjoining territories you hold, and the person going 2nd would know from their logs which these were wouldn't they? Would only be a small advantage if any.

But then again, I'm not sure I take games seriously enough to take screenshots at any stage, which probably explains why my rank never gets that high!

The issue some rather sad players have is that if you play second without having a snapshot, you don't know which regions you've lost, which regions your opponent has behind the fog you could previously see, and what's neutral behind the fog that you could see. Of course, in a strategic game based on warfare, this is extremely unfair and everyone that ignores this courtesy should be banned.

[betiko]

Am I being a bit daft here? The only thing the person going first would see over the person going 2nd at the start of a foggy game are the adjoining territories you hold, and the person going 2nd would know from their logs which these were wouldn't they? Would only be a small advantage if any.

But then again, I'm not sure I take games seriously enough to take screenshots at any stage, which probably explains why my rank never gets that high!

You are able to see how many terts were taken but not from where to where in the log and who was surrounding it. In 1v1 it s not that important most of the time, but in multiplayer, team game or poly it is important because you should know the positions of other player and that information is being taken from you. A good player needs to have a mental image of the whole situation behind the fog, and pre-game positions you can see from your starting terts are considered as intel you have the right to have. Taking that information away from a more dedicated player is considered bad sport, and is something that he would not do to his opponent.
I thing that everyone would agree that an automatic snapshot pre game would be an easy fix and we would just stop having these tiresome conversations.

[BoganGod]

It's not a rule I have ever come across in the forums or games, except once and then the other player was losing quite badly due to dice and decided to bring it up 3 rounds in.

It would be simple to make a suggestion to have an automatic screenshot for fog games. I suspect the people who would most strongly object to this rule are people like Joriki. He has chosen fog for a strategic advantage. I only take screenshots in multiplayer fog games, and I would guess that quite a few players under major don't take screenshots in such games. As such, an automatic screenshot would somewhat take away his advantage. But if he did object to an automatic screenshot, then the complaint he has is not just invalid, but in itself a dick move, topped by a greater dick move.

Ronc took a single tert on a massive map before Joriki could have gotten a screenshot. Going first was likely a far greater advantage than whatever was hidden due to his move.

you are way off dude. of course someone like joriki would want to have automatic screenshots pre game, it would avoid all this hassle. Since you didn't understand the point, joriki does that so no one has the unfair advantage of hidding territoires he should have seen when the game started. joriki is a fairplay player and is just intolerant to people who are not. Not going to waste more time explaining obvious things.

Obvious lie and bullshit. Betsy you can't help yourself. You will be back in this thread like a dog returning to it's vomit.

Unwritten rules are for elitist bellends. Unwritten rules are exclusionary, for arrogant hypocritical trouser stains. Judge people on how they follow the rules, the written rules.

[BigBallinStalin]

@ all the so called gentlemen.

Go play out of your small bubble !
There is around 10k players on CC, I do not believe half of them respect this rule.
Few examples, played again a clan player on a 1vs1 tournament with a decent rank recently ( major). He joined the game and played immediately. I wall him asking to reveal what he did, he told me
"there is no fog rule in this tournament". Well, I was unhappy about it, but guess what, he was right!

Another tournament, 2vs2, 3 games at once. I ask my partner to wait 12h to let opponent team have a snap . He did it but told me " why there is no fog rule ?" and btw next turn of the tourney, opponent team started 2/3 games - they didn't wait a single minute either. Both were clans player as well.

This was with people knowing this kind of rule exists some time. Now we all know even in the clan world not everyone does respect or agree to this rule.

Got myself playing around 30 trench poly 2 foggy games last week. Not even once did any of my opponents gave me time for a snap.


So gotta say, jorikia, kaskavel, BBS, betiko and all of those thinking like you - go play in the real world. Only games with very high rank and clan games do follow the fog rules. This is a very small minority of the games played.


--------------

Concerning the C and A case, i am wondering how the mods can be so much out of their mind.
This is very obvious intentionnal deadbeating. Poly 4 meaning 12 missed before the games end !
I've got nothing against joriki - but Noted was the very minimum.

I am utterly surprised. This is total non-sense decision. Might as well get rid of the rule.

Apparently, they found good enough reason to not punish him. No, getting rid of the rule would be a knee-jerk reaction. Anyway:


Let's use your same argumentative format and see what we get:

1. Go play out of your small bubble !

2. There is around 10k players on CC, x-amount of them respect this rule.

3. No fog rule in a tournament is obvious, but besides the point. In a tournament, you agree to a contract upon joining. There, the terms and conditions (stated formally) are available. If no fog rule is present, then it need not be respected. It's a tourney for barbarians. We get it.
(That's like the "the fog rule is not a (formal) rule" argument. You're missing the point).


It's still incumbent on the barbarians to explain how their move is not a cheap, dishonorable tactic. They're very similar to people who abuse legal systems through loopholes or who impose additional fees to unsuspecting customers. There's nothing morally righteous about it, which is why I find the "jeriko's a dick" crowd to be so hypocritical and ignorant.

A gentleman's agreement involves expectations of mutually good behavior. The rule of barbarism treasures cheap gains at other people's expense. It's easy to put an end to this: just stop being barbarian. Expect more from your fellow CC netizens.

[richwwtk]

A gentleman's agreement would require both players to know about it from the off. I've been around CC for a few years and was unaware of it before this thread.