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Does God exist?

 
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Postby strike wolf on Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:43 am

jay_a2j wrote:Adaptation is not evolution. Adaptation is the changing of characteristics of a species. (but it still remains THAT species) There is a species of fish that migrated into underwater caves which where pitch black. So over time they became blind (since they had no need for sight). Evolution is the changing from one species to a totally new species over a long period of time. Ape to man (Of which there is no evidence).


1. You just proved his point about adaptation being evolution. Lose the need for sight new senses are needed.

2. There is fossil evidence that shows that show man/apelike creatures and some evidence of how they seperated.
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:59 am

strike wolf wrote:1. You just proved his point about adaptation being evolution. Lose the need for sight new senses are needed.



Umm no I didn't. The fish never gained a new sense. And the fish remained a fish. Evolution (ape evolving into man) requires gaining or losing chromosomes. (something that is, shall we say impossible)

strike wolf wrote: 2. There is fossil evidence that shows that show man/apelike creatures and some evidence of how they seperated.


Give me a break. I forgot who told me but I remember someone saying that a Cromagdonman (sp?), if he was walking down the street today in a three piece suit you would not be able to tell him apart from anyone else. WHAT evidence? Evolution... mans attempt at explaining Gods creation.
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Postby strike wolf on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:00 am

Look cromagnum would have looked like homo sapien because it was technically an early homo sapien. Homo erectus and Homo Neanderthalis are slightly different cases.
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:07 am

strike wolf wrote:Look cromagnum would have looked like homo sapien because it was technically an early homo sapien. Homo erectus and Homo Neanderthalis are slightly different cases.




yet all are "man". where are the missing fossils? Of all the creatures on Earth that have "evolved" you would think we would find at least one fossil of a lizard devoloping a "wing bone" or something. But there is no such fossil. As someone stated earlier it takes more faith to believe in evolution then it does creation/God.
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Postby strike wolf on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:09 am

I could sit here and try to put some logic into your incorrigible mind, but I have better things to concerned with.
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:13 am

I bet. :wink:
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Postby strike wolf on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:14 am

seriously I need to go to bed so I can go to destin tommorow.
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Postby strike wolf on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:18 am

If I can convince myself to get up from the computer that is.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:29 am

jay, when the people who are normally arguing points with you are calling you an idiot you must be doing something wrong..
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Postby heavycola on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:12 am

Jay this is absolute nonsense.

where are the missing fossils? Of all the creatures on Earth that have "evolved" you would think we would find at least one fossil of a lizard devoloping a "wing bone" or something. But there is no such fossil. As someone stated earlier it takes more faith to believe in evolution then it does creation/God.


The fossil record is incomplete because the conditions needed to preserve organisms are so rare. That's all. And it doesn't take more faith to 'believe' in evolution (do you 'believe' in gravity?), just a bit of imagination and open-mindedness.

You didn't pay attention in class because you had been told, as a youngster, that evolution was wrong, before you had ever read up on it for yourself or made up your own mind. And now you vow never to let your kids decide for themselves, either. What are you scared of?
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Postby vtmarik on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:13 am

jay_a2j wrote:The point is... if the non-religious are offended by the religious and we will do everything from banning 10 commandments on courtroom walls to not allowing Bible studies in schools before class. Then why can the religious NOT be offended by the things the non-religious force upon us (as stated previously). Either make it so no one is "offended" (which is impossible) or stop filling lawsuits against people of faith.


It's not the non-religious being offended. The reason the 10 commandments aren't allowed in courtrooms is because 8 of them aren't laws! And Bible studies don't belong in schools because if you are going to teach one religion, you have to teach them all. It's cheaper and easier to just not teach any religion.


BTW... I want Little Johnny not to be taught stuff that goes against HIS faith. Why not teach gambleing, how to roll a joint, how to shoplift without getting caught?


Then take little Johnny and place him in a parochial school, if you can't afford it you can either take out a loan from a bank or try to apply for a scholarship/sponsorship of some kind.

Stick to the BASICS (math, history, science -exclude evolution, English)


The basics? But if we're gonna teach religion, shouldn't we teach latin, greek, and hebrew instead of english? I mean, those are the original languages of the Bible...

Adaptation is not evolution. Adaptation is the changing of characteristics of a species. (but it still remains THAT species) There is a species of fish that migrated into underwater caves which where pitch black. So over time they became blind (since they had no need for sight). Evolution is the changing from one species to a totally new species over a long period of time. Ape to man (Of which there is no evidence).


The dictionary defines evolution as:

A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
And in Biology:
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.

That same dictionary defines adaptation as:

Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.
And in Biology:
An alteration or adjustment in structure or habits, often hereditary, by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.

A fish lives in the darkest part of the ocean. It discards the genes for sight because sight is a detriment to the fish. It also gains bioluminescent appendages to draw in prey. That fish IS A NEW SPECIES OF FISH.

Adaptation is hereditary. Heredity is the genetic composition of a species during successive generations.

If you had paid attention in that science class, you would have learned that adaptation is a function of evolution. As a species evolves into a new species, it also adapts to its environment. Therefore your fish moving to the zone of darkness in the ocean adapts to its environment and eventually evolves into a new species.

And that was "How Science Works" for July 12, 2006. Join us again next time as we explore the difference between science and non-science.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:19 am

vtmarik wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:The point is... if the non-religious are offended by the religious and we will do everything from banning 10 commandments on courtroom walls to not allowing Bible studies in schools before class. Then why can the religious NOT be offended by the things the non-religious force upon us (as stated previously). Either make it so no one is "offended" (which is impossible) or stop filling lawsuits against people of faith.


It's not the non-religious being offended. The reason the 10 commandments aren't allowed in courtrooms is because 8 of them aren't laws! And Bible studies don't belong in schools because if you are going to teach one religion, you have to teach them all. It's cheaper and easier to just not teach any religion.


BTW... I want Little Johnny not to be taught stuff that goes against HIS faith. Why not teach gambleing, how to roll a joint, how to shoplift without getting caught?


Then take little Johnny and place him in a parochial school, if you can't afford it you can either take out a loan from a bank or try to apply for a scholarship/sponsorship of some kind.

Stick to the BASICS (math, history, science -exclude evolution, English)


The basics? But if we're gonna teach religion, shouldn't we teach latin, greek, and hebrew instead of english? I mean, those are the original languages of the Bible...

Adaptation is not evolution. Adaptation is the changing of characteristics of a species. (but it still remains THAT species) There is a species of fish that migrated into underwater caves which where pitch black. So over time they became blind (since they had no need for sight). Evolution is the changing from one species to a totally new species over a long period of time. Ape to man (Of which there is no evidence).


The dictionary defines evolution as:

A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
And in Biology:
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.

That same dictionary defines adaptation as:

Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.
And in Biology:
An alteration or adjustment in structure or habits, often hereditary, by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.

A fish lives in the darkest part of the ocean. It discards the genes for sight because sight is a detriment to the fish. It also gains bioluminescent appendages to draw in prey. That fish IS A NEW SPECIES OF FISH.

Adaptation is hereditary. Heredity is the genetic composition of a species during successive generations.

If you had paid attention in that science class, you would have learned that adaptation is a function of evolution. As a species evolves into a new species, it also adapts to its environment. Therefore your fish moving to the zone of darkness in the ocean adapts to its environment and eventually evolves into a new species.

And that was "How Science Works" for July 12, 2006. Join us again next time as we explore the difference between science and non-science.



dictionaries have a leftist bias anyways...
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Postby vtmarik on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:44 am

reverend_kyle wrote:dictionaries have a leftist bias anyways...


I know but Nathaniel Hawthorne's Dictionary for the Clinically Facist has been out of print for 200 years and it's near impossible to find a HTMLified version.

But don't worry, I'll keep looking!
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Postby reverend_kyle on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:50 am

vtmarik wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:dictionaries have a leftist bias anyways...


I know but Nathaniel Hawthorne's Dictionary for the Clinically Facist has been out of print for 200 years and it's near impossible to find a HTMLified version.

But don't worry, I'll keep looking!
fox news defined evolutions as the abiliy of humans to dig a hole to china.... I dont think that is scientifically possible.
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Postby vtmarik on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:59 am

reverend_kyle wrote:fox news defined evolutions as the abiliy of humans to dig a hole to china.... I dont think that is scientifically possible.



You're kidding right?
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Postby macwin on Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:31 am

dictionaries have a leftist bias anyways...


ROFLMAO.....i haven't laughed like that at a computer screen in a while!

Seriously though guys....this argument will have both sides baiting each other until either judgement day or until the sun goes supernova....depending on your point of view.

I have an opinion but i feel that would just fuel this thread even more. Keep it going though...its always good for a good read....i have a great time trying to guess peoples ages and level of education......(hmmm maybe there was an opinion there after all??)

flame on

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Postby heavycola on Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:24 am

i know, but its' very difficult when you're so utterly and completely right to give that up :twisted:
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Postby johnnyrotten on Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:17 am

macwin wrote:Seriously though guys....this argument will have both sides baiting each other until either judgement day or until the sun goes supernova....depending on your point of view.

The sun won't become a supernova, silly. It would need to be several times bigger.
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Postby macwin on Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:58 am

johnnyrotten wrote:
macwin wrote:Seriously though guys....this argument will have both sides baiting each other until either judgement day or until the sun goes supernova....depending on your point of view.

The sun won't become a supernova, silly. It would need to be several times bigger.


<sigh>

i see your an eminent scientist too?

what you said makes no sense
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Postby Pilate on Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:37 am

macwin wrote:
johnnyrotten wrote:
macwin wrote:Seriously though guys....this argument will have both sides baiting each other until either judgement day or until the sun goes supernova....depending on your point of view.

The sun won't become a supernova, silly. It would need to be several times bigger.


<sigh>

i see your an eminent scientist too?

what you said makes no sense


It makes sense. There are different classes of stars. Although i'm ignorant about stars and unaware if it is factually correct
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:58 am

heavycola wrote:Jay this is absolute nonsense.

where are the missing fossils? Of all the creatures on Earth that have "evolved" you would think we would find at least one fossil of a lizard devoloping a "wing bone" or something. But there is no such fossil. As someone stated earlier it takes more faith to believe in evolution then it does creation/God.


The fossil record is incomplete because the conditions needed to preserve organisms are so rare. That's all. And it doesn't take more faith to 'believe' in evolution (do you 'believe' in gravity?), just a bit of imagination and open-mindedness.

You didn't pay attention in class because you had been told, as a youngster, that evolution was wrong, before you had ever read up on it for yourself or made up your own mind. And now you vow never to let your kids decide for themselves, either. What are you scared of?




ok, first of all I don't buy the "conditions are so rare", we find dino fossils, human fossiles, fossils of all types of animals,birds and fish. And you would have me believe that all this "evolution" that has taken place there is no fossil evidence? Logic dictates I'm not an idiot.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day it said, "Imagination is more useful then knowledge". Can you be serious??? (They also had a Kerry/Edwards sticker on that same vehicle) Knowledge is "facts". Imagination is how we got Charlie and the Chocolate factory. The facts don't support evolution. I'm "afraid" that people are buying into evolution when it never happened.
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Postby Pilate on Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:00 am

jay_a2j wrote:
heavycola wrote:Jay this is absolute nonsense.

where are the missing fossils? Of all the creatures on Earth that have "evolved" you would think we would find at least one fossil of a lizard devoloping a "wing bone" or something. But there is no such fossil. As someone stated earlier it takes more faith to believe in evolution then it does creation/God.


The fossil record is incomplete because the conditions needed to preserve organisms are so rare. That's all. And it doesn't take more faith to 'believe' in evolution (do you 'believe' in gravity?), just a bit of imagination and open-mindedness.

You didn't pay attention in class because you had been told, as a youngster, that evolution was wrong, before you had ever read up on it for yourself or made up your own mind. And now you vow never to let your kids decide for themselves, either. What are you scared of?




ok, first of all I don't buy the "conditions are so rare", we find dino fossils, human fossiles, fossils of all types of animals,birds and fish. And you would have me believe that all this "evolution" that has taken place there is no fossil evidence? Logic dictates I'm not an idiot.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day it said, "Imagination is more useful then knowledge". Can you be serious??? (They also had a Kerry/Edwards sticker on that same vehicle) Knowledge is "facts". Imagination is how we got Charlie and the Chocolate factory. The facts don't support evolution. I'm "afraid" that people are buying into evolution when it never happened.


I don't know what you learned, but there is more to evolution than evolutionary theory as the origin of life. You want to believe in creationism and not evolution? Fine, we can't go back in time. Fundamentalists by definition almost never change their minds. ;)

However, evolution does happen today. You insult your own intelligence if you say evolution does not happen at all. I think my university degree in biology (and those of Phds around the world) trumps the high school course you didn't pay attention in because of your bias. :D
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:19 am

Pilate wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
heavycola wrote:Jay this is absolute nonsense.

where are the missing fossils? Of all the creatures on Earth that have "evolved" you would think we would find at least one fossil of a lizard devoloping a "wing bone" or something. But there is no such fossil. As someone stated earlier it takes more faith to believe in evolution then it does creation/God.


The fossil record is incomplete because the conditions needed to preserve organisms are so rare. That's all. And it doesn't take more faith to 'believe' in evolution (do you 'believe' in gravity?), just a bit of imagination and open-mindedness.

You didn't pay attention in class because you had been told, as a youngster, that evolution was wrong, before you had ever read up on it for yourself or made up your own mind. And now you vow never to let your kids decide for themselves, either. What are you scared of?




ok, first of all I don't buy the "conditions are so rare", we find dino fossils, human fossiles, fossils of all types of animals,birds and fish. And you would have me believe that all this "evolution" that has taken place there is no fossil evidence? Logic dictates I'm not an idiot.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day it said, "Imagination is more useful then knowledge". Can you be serious??? (They also had a Kerry/Edwards sticker on that same vehicle) Knowledge is "facts". Imagination is how we got Charlie and the Chocolate factory. The facts don't support evolution. I'm "afraid" that people are buying into evolution when it never happened.


I don't know what you learned, but there is more to evolution than evolutionary theory as the origin of life. You want to believe in creationism and not evolution? Fine, we can't go back in time. Fundamentalists by definition almost never change their minds. ;)

However, evolution does happen today. You insult your own intelligence if you say evolution does not happen at all. I think my university degree in biology (and those of Phds around the world) trumps the high school course you didn't pay attention in because of your bias. :D



You ever notice that many times the "intelligent" individual lacks common sense? You might have 6 PhD's and still not be able to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich (If this is the case there is a thread, "How to make a peanutbutter and Jelly Sandwitch") There is NO cocrerte evidence of evolution past or present.

The thing about it, is that evolution does not answer the "orgin of life" question. And doesn't even try. You go on believing that all life came from a single cell organism. Someone, be it God or Darwin, gave me a mind to use and analize things. And using logic, evolution makes no sense.






END OF THREAD
Last edited by jay_a2j on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:52 pm

so you concede that you lost?
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Postby Machiavelli on Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:27 pm

Jay, if you had any common sense than you would believe in evolution.
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