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Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game changer!

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:04 pm

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muy_thaiguy wrote:Every single credible news source out there says the same thing. The Syrian populace peacefully protested Assad's regime, wanting democratic reforms, Assad said "NO! I brutal dictator for reason!" and began slaughtering them.


So, yeah, here's the thing, "every single credible media source out there" also said the same sequence of events happened in Libya. After the U.S. destroyed that country, academics went in and analyzed what actually happened and "every single credible media source out there" was wrong. Former Harvard professor Alan Kuperman is the leading post-event analyst of Libya and wrote this for the peer-reviewed journal International Security (which correlates with what pretty much everyone else says) -

The conventional account of Libya's conflict and NATO's intervention is misleading in several key aspects. First, contrary to Western media reports, Qaddafi did not initiate Libya's violence by targeting peaceful protesters. The United Nations and Amnesty International have documented that in all four Libyan cities initially consumed by civil conflict in mid-February 2011—Benghazi, Al Bayda, Tripoli, and Misurata—violence was actually initiated by the protesters. The government responded to the rebels militarily but never intentionally targeted civilians or resorted to "indiscriminate" force, as Western media claimed. Early press accounts exaggerated the death toll by a factor of ten, citing "more than 2,000 deaths" in Benghazi during the initial days of the uprising, whereas Human Rights Watch (HRW) later documented only 233 deaths across all of Libya in that period.

Further evidence that Qaddafi avoided targeting civilians comes from the Libyan city that was most consumed by the early fighting, Misurata. HRW reports that of the 949 people wounded there in the rebellion's initial seven weeks, only 30 were women or children, meaning that Qaddafi's forces focused narrowly on combatants.

http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/pub ... paign.html


It's conventional wisdom that western media, no matter how much of a watchdog they may be of governments in domestic politics, tend to parrot the military line in external affairs. This is part of the political economy of war reporting. They largely can't, except for a few isolated correspondents, report a picture of a war their readers want to hear so heavily rely on official foreign and defense ministry statements to source their reports. In the Romanian insurrection in the '90s CBS News initially reported 20,000 civilians had been killed by the Romanian Army. Thank God there was no oil in Romania. Later reports by UNICEF, Amnesty International and the post-Ceaucescu Romanian government itself put the high-end death toll at 300.
Last edited by saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:05 pm

Bernie Sanders wrote:Image


This is what passes for "progressive" in America.
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby muy_thaiguy on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:11 pm

So, where was I talking about Libya? Show me that. And show me a valid news source that actually shows that Assad did not begin slaughtering peaceful protesters. Or is all you can do is deflect from the actual point I showed? Because that is all you are doing.
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:18 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:So, where was I talking about Libya?


The magic spell anyone can cast to justify a war -

    - "I was wrong [in Romania], but [in Iraq] I'm right!"

    - "I was wrong [in Iraq], but [in Libya] I'm right!"

    - "I was wrong [in Libya], but [in Syria] I'm right!"
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby jimboston on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:53 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
There's no difference between terrorists and "Syria Rebels."


That's a subjective opinion. It all depends on who is defining the word "terrorist".

Regardless, I didn't say there was a difference between terrorists and Syria Rebels.

I did say that the terms "Syrian Rebels" and "Isis" were no synonyms.
There may be overlap, but that's not a given, and is likely a small percentage.

saxitoxin wrote:The main U.S.-backed rebel group, the Free Syria Army, has been in a coalition-of-convenience with Khorasan (Al-Qaeda), the al-Nusra Front, and the Sham Legion for the better part of the last year under the umbrella name "Army of Conquest." Their plan was to hold-off fighting each other until the fall of the Arab Socialist Baath Party and then have an ultimate showdown (ostensibly political, but more likely military) for control of the Syrian government. Any attack on the American allies, therefore, weakens American opponents. The corollary is also true, that any attack on American opponents, weakens American allies.


OK. You may be right here. Not really anything I disputed.

saxitoxin wrote:Americans prefer fighting wars with two sides involving a "Blue Team" (us) and a "Red Team" (them). But many of the Blue Team members have drinks on the weekends with Red Team members and then there's a Green Team and an Orange Team that keep running onto the field and trying to steal the ball.


I think every major power would like a war with clear sides.

saxitoxin wrote:The U.S. is like a blind 90 year-old taking-care of 500 cats. American incompetence and buffoonery has resulted in a humanitarian disaster for the people of Syria. After the complete cock-up of Iraq, and then Libya, Russia had no choice but to step in to clean shit up. And, yes, they may use straight bleach instead of scented-lubriderm moist towlettes, and you may not like that, but shit is getting clean.


Funny, but not entirely accurate.

The U.S. did fuck-up in Iraq.

I dispute however your statement that Russia has to "step in to clean shit up". The simple fact is that Russia is involving itself in Syria for its' own economic and political interests. Primarily it wants to keep Syria as a customer for its' arms... and it likes the idea of messing with U.S. reputation and "moral authority".
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:54 pm

This is what passes for news in America - this was a CNN Radio report aired on KGO-AM San Francisco a few minutes ago I listened to - I just edited it down from 4 minutes to about 20 seconds ... how can Americans eat up this propaganda? I was laughing through the whole thing. :D :D :D

http://picosong.com/SKvh/

    -First, the reporter sounds like she's voicing the trailer to a Michael Bay movie. I mean it sounds like it's straight out of some propaganda broadcasts in Children of Men or 1984, with even a crying baby sound effect!

    -Second, no attempt is made to get or give the other side as is keeping with conventional journalistic ethics.

    -Third, after the entire 4-minute parade of horribles, she matter of factly sneaks in there "oh yeah ... we can't confirm the accuracy of anything we just reported!" =D> =D> =D>

This is how Americans get whipped-up into war hysteria and keep running head long into battle screaming Freedom! with their drooling lackeys in Britain, West Florida (AKA Australia), France, and Diet France (AKA Canada) dutifully running in after them (as Spain and Germany just sit there shaking their heads in bewilderment).
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby muy_thaiguy on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:08 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:So, where was I talking about Libya?


I will now try to further deflect-

    - "Deflection!"

    - "Deflection!"

    - "Deflection!"

I did not mention Libya. So stop trying to deflect to it. It's getting old.
And you still haven't posted anything to counter Assad starting the war.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 88433.html
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby patches70 on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:21 pm

Aljazeera is owned by Qatar! Hahahahahah! Talk about bias....
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:35 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:I did not mention Libya. So stop trying to deflect to it. It's getting old.


Still don't understand?

U.S. media have spread the meme about "civilians killed by the brutal dictator" prior to every recent war and atrocity Amerika has launched - and every time it's proved wrong after the fact. But once again and without missing a beat you're running, hands waving in the air hollering "civilians! civilians!", right on cue, proving they can pull this canard an infinite number of times and the plebes will keep falling for it.

Useful Idiot: A useful idiot is someone who supports one side of an ideological debate, but who is manipulated and held in contempt by the leaders of their faction or is unaware of the ultimate agenda driving the ideology to which they subscribe.
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:56 pm

A great assessment of the coming weeks from the progressive website CounterPunch -

So far, Russia’s plan in Syria has been astute and correct. Russian jets have been degrading ISIS strongholds, command centers, ammunition depots and oil fields. Once this is achieved, it is likely that a ground operation will start. Russian troops and whatever is left of Assad’s forces will come from the Allawite-controlled north, while Hezbollah will move more forces from Lebanon in the west. In a coordinated fashion, Iraqi Shiite militias and even Iraqi troops, under Iranian command, will come from the south to take back ISIS-controlled areas of Iraq. The jihadist army will have nowhere to go, but they are likely to be formidable opponents using their tanks and armored vehicles, all proudly made in the USA, and they will have snipers in position blending into the ruins of Syria. Regardless, if the coalition of Russia, Iran and Hezbollah commit enough troops on the ground, they should unquestionably prevail.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/08/ ... -and-iraq/


On to Jerusalem!
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby Bernie Sanders on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:06 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Bernie Sanders wrote:Image


This is what passes for "progressive" in America.



This is how Putin talks to his neighbors

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby muy_thaiguy on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:21 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:I did not mention Libya. So stop trying to deflect to it. It's getting old.


Still don't understand?

U.S. media have spread the meme about "civilians killed by the brutal dictator" prior to every recent war and atrocity Amerika has launched - and every time it's proved wrong after the fact. But once again and without missing a beat you're running, hands waving in the air hollering "civilians! civilians!", right on cue, proving they can pull this canard an infinite number of times and the plebes will keep falling for it.

Useful Idiot: A useful idiot is someone who supports one side of an ideological debate, but who is manipulated and held in contempt by the leaders of their faction or is unaware of the ultimate agenda driving the ideology to which they subscribe.

So, still nothing to refute Assad beginning this war in Syria? Thought so. Until you can actually provide sources saying otherwise, it looks like Russia supports dictators who have a bad tendency to order their troops to fire on civilians who are peacefully protesting and want reforms, like an end to corruption.

And for my final post in this absurd thread:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-mis ... 00150.html
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-refuses-conf ... 05186.html
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/09/ ... ting-isis/
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/7/9471271/ru ... ombing-map
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world ... .html?_r=0
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... estigators
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/06/ ... r-hospital

Now you may continue your deflecting, spinning, and "Russia stronk!" posts.
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:50 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:I did not mention Libya. So stop trying to deflect to it. It's getting old.


Still don't understand?

U.S. media have spread the meme about "civilians killed by the brutal dictator" prior to every recent war and atrocity Amerika has launched - and every time it's proved wrong after the fact. But once again and without missing a beat you're running, hands waving in the air hollering "civilians! civilians!", right on cue, proving they can pull this canard an infinite number of times and the plebes will keep falling for it.

Useful Idiot: A useful idiot is someone who supports one side of an ideological debate, but who is manipulated and held in contempt by the leaders of their faction or is unaware of the ultimate agenda driving the ideology to which they subscribe.

So, still nothing to refute Assad beginning this war in Syria? Thought so. Until you can actually provide sources saying otherwise, it looks like Russia supports dictators who have a bad tendency to order their troops to fire on civilians who are peacefully protesting and want reforms, like an end to corruption.

And for my final post in this absurd thread:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-mis ... 00150.html
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-refuses-conf ... 05186.html
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/09/ ... ting-isis/
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/7/9471271/ru ... ombing-map
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world ... .html?_r=0
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... estigators
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/06/ ... r-hospital

Now you may continue your deflecting, spinning, and "Russia stronk!" posts.


Sheesh, it's like talking to a brick wall. Once again ...

First, contrary to Western media reports, Qaddafi did not initiate Libya's violence by targeting peaceful protesters.
http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/pub ... paign.html


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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:13 pm

jimboston wrote: The simple fact is that Russia is involving itself in Syria for its' own economic and political interests. Primarily it wants to keep Syria as a customer for its' arms


These canards don't even require me to break a sweat to debunk. Russia exports $221 billion of good per year, only $13 billion are weapons, or about 6% of its total exports. Those, in turn, are divided among more than three dozen countries. Russia is spending more on this deployment than it will ever make back from future Syrian arms purchases.

Now, if we want to talk about actual gun runners, maybe we can talk about the arms the U.S. ships to the medieval monarchy of Bahrain that are used to massacre real pro-democracy protesters.

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby GoranZ on Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:17 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:And for my final post in this absurd thread

I understand you... It hurts when your government is spending piles of money on fighters that will fight US interest one week after you help them... The problem is not Russia, it never was, that's why you probably consider this thread to be absurd also. Leaving this thread will give you time to rethink your opinions, and eventually change them, which is a good thing on a long run.

Officially US Training program is GONE, after US admitting that they used 500 million dollars and having only 4-5 remaining rebels on the ground. Now they are starting another program, US Arming Rebels program but if the training didn't work how can arming work? Is someone in US government thinking or they are only wasting taxpayers money?

source: Why hasn’t it worked? State Dept. dodges RT’s questions on failed ‘moderate’ rebel training in Syria
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:32 pm

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby mrswdk on Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:48 pm

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby GoranZ on Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:56 pm

What is left after so called "moderate" Syrian opposition retreats? This was the place Russians targeted few days ago and few posters in this thread were crying "Russians are not targeting ISIS..."
https://www.rt.com/news/318184-captured ... trocities/

I'm curious, what is the difference between ISIS and this "moderate" opposition? Personally I cant see it lol

As a side note: Bloody Israelis are bombing Gaza after being grounded in Syria. Will attacks on Gaza ever gonna stop, or that place is left as Israeli boxer bag(when they are pissed from some failure elsewhere)?

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby mrswdk on Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:33 pm

GoranZ wrote:What is left after so called "moderate" Syrian opposition retreats? This was the place Russians targeted few days ago and few posters in this thread were crying "Russians are not targeting ISIS..."
https://www.rt.com/news/318184-captured ... trocities/


You know you live in a nation of pussies when your news blurs out every last inch of a dead body.
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby saxitoxin on Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:55 pm

President Putin spent the day today celebrating his 63rd B-Day with a quick pick-up game of hockey against Detroit Red Wings star Vyacheslav Fetisov and New York Rangers star Pavel Bure.

Image

President Obama spent the day at a $35,000/plate fundraiser in San Francisco for ... the Red Cross, AIDS, himself.

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:22 am

saxitoxin wrote:Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.


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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby patches70 on Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:12 pm

The real news.




:lol:
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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:11 pm

patches70 wrote:The real news.




:lol:

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Re: Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game chan

Postby owenshooter on Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:16 pm

GoranZ wrote:Russia started airstrikes in Syria, and it's a game changer!


yes, for the people in the ACTUAL country they are hitting, IRAN, while MISSING Syria...-Jésus noir
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Re: Russia started hitting ISIS and its a gamechanger

Postby owenshooter on Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:23 pm

mrswdk wrote:Countries who are economically and politically powerful but who do not misuse their power to condone mindless and destabilizing military interventions in sovereign states, and would therefore would make a good new Security Council:

China
Germany
India
Brazil
Japan


China should use all that economical and political power to solve a 9 and 12 day old traffic jams...

Image




yes, this is your china... now you can leave the thread...-Jésus noir
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