Voltaire remembered

[mrswdk]

One year one from the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the French are still defending free speech as vigorously as ever.

France: Le Pen fined over Holocaust remarks

Former French far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen has been fined 30,000 euros (£24,000; $34,000) for calling the Nazi gas chambers a "detail" of World War Two.

He was convicted of contesting crimes against humanity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35979522

[waauw]

And deservedly so.

[mrswdk]

Bookmarked for the next time someone complains about the CCP censoring Chinese media.

[riskllama]

why? apples & oranges, mrs.
nice avatar, btw...

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Lol 86'd from your own party by your own daughter.

So, you can seriously be charged with a crime for denying the Holocaust? The French legislate beliefs?

-TG

[riskllama]

Europe doesn't have a sense of humour about shit like that, it would seem...

[mrswdk]

Lol 86'd from your own party by your own daughter.

So, you can seriously be charged with a crime for denying the Holocaust? The French legislate beliefs?

-TG

I guess it's not really surprising, given this is the country which also bans Muslim women from wearing burkas or niqabs, bans students from wearing symbols or clothing of any religion whatsoever to school, and bans praying in public.

[DoomYoshi]

Bookmarked for the next time someone complains about the CCP censoring Chinese media.

I made a handy table for you:

Category -------------- Censored in China ----------------Censored in France
Language-----------------No------------------------------------Must be French*--
Media----------------Yes-----------------------------------------Yes---------------
Internet-----------------Yes----------------------------------------Yes--------------

It seems China is winning when looking only on principles. On scale, China is different. For example, France has a few dozen books, songs etc. that have been banned since the rule is permissable unless banned (all productions are assumed to be not banned). In China, all productions are assumed to be banned and must instead be approved.

Furthermore, the definitions are slightly different. Both countries filter access to terrorist websites. France mainly sticks to ISIS recruitment websites etc while China (as well as the other members of the SCO) define terrorists as anyone not a member of the ruling elite.

It should be noted that in China, access to Conquer Club is blocked.

*Some people like to give the French a pass on this one, but those people are deplorable ninnys. The genocide of Provencal undid all of France's cultural contributions to the World.

[warmonger1981]

The French are totalitarian aka liberal progressive. America is following right behind this ideology.

[waauw]

Lol 86'd from your own party by your own daughter.

So, you can seriously be charged with a crime for denying the Holocaust? The French legislate beliefs?

-TG

I guess it's not really surprising, given this is the country which also bans Muslim women from wearing burkas or niqabs, bans students from wearing symbols or clothing of any religion whatsoever to school, and bans praying in public.

I somehow doubt the last one is actually getting enforced. Also realize that France is the country within the EU with the highest percentage of muslims.

[waauw]

The French are totalitarian aka liberal progressive. America is following right behind this ideology.

I think you need to look up the word totalitarian.

[mrswdk]

The French are totalitarian aka liberal progressive. America is following right behind this ideology.

I think you need to look up the word totalitarian.

Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed

The French government:

- Forbids religious clothing (see: burqa and niqab ban, ban on religious attire in schools)
- Forbids all public expressions of religion (see: public prayer ban)
- Forbids certain political views (see: heavy fines given to politicians and comedians who stray from the official line on the Holocaust, legally requiring social media companies to censor posts on their sites if they sympathize with official enemies such as ISIS)
- Forbids entire cultural ways of life (see: routine raiding and demolition of Romany camps)
- Exherts direct control over the individual body (see: forbids residents from selling sex with oneself, even in private)
- Has been running the country under a state of emergency for the past five months (giving it the power to, among other things, carry out police raids and put people under home arrest without warrants, which it has already done more than 3,000 times)

France: the land where everyone is free (to agree with the government)!

[waauw]

The French are totalitarian aka liberal progressive. America is following right behind this ideology.

I think you need to look up the word totalitarian.

Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed

The French government:

- Forbids religious clothing (see: burqa and niqab ban, ban on religious attire in schools)
- Forbids public expressions of religion (see: public prayer ban)
- Forbids certain political views (see: heavy fines given to politicians and comedians who stray from the official line on the Holocaust, legally requiring social media companies to censor posts on their sites if they sympathize with official enemies such as ISIS)
- Exherts direct control over the individual body (see: forbids residents from selling sex with oneself, even in private)
- Forbids entire cultural ways of life (see: routine violent demolition of Romany camps)

France: the land where everyone is free (to agree with the government)!

Except you forget the piece that says "absolute and centralized control over ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE. THE INDIVIDUAL IS SUBORDINATED TO THE STATE, ...".

I do agree that France is one of the most pro-centralization countries in the EU, but you're completely wrong. People are still allowed to protest opposition to the government. They just aren't allowed to incite fights and terrorism. I would think you of all people would think this common sense.

[mrswdk]

I do agree that France is one of the most pro-centralization countries in the EU, but you're completely wrong. People are still allowed to protest opposition to the government. They just aren't allowed to incite fights and terrorism. I would think you of all people would think this common sense.

Pretty big stretch to say that showing sympathy for the grievances of those who carry out terror attacks, or downplaying the seriousness of the Holocaust, is incitement of violence. Is that really as bad as the government ordering violent raids on Roma camps and on thousands of innocent Muslims' homes without warrant, or police suppression of Islamic prayer and religious dress?

Oh right, it's only when you take on the government and the Judeo-Christian majority they represent that it matters.

Vive le republique totalitaire!

[waauw]

I do agree that France is one of the most pro-centralization countries in the EU, but you're completely wrong. People are still allowed to protest opposition to the government. They just aren't allowed to incite fights and terrorism. I would think you of all people would think this common sense.

Pretty big stretch to say that showing sympathy for the grievances of those who carry out terror attacks, or downplaying the seriousness of the Holocaust, is incitement of violence. Is that really as bad as the government ordering violent raids on Roma camps and on thousands of innocent Muslims' homes without warrant, or police suppression of Islamic prayer and religious dress?

Oh right, it's only when you take on the government and the Judeo-Christian majority they represent that it matters.

Vive le republique totalitaire!

Ehm, the only reason the government in France is doing unwarrented raids on muslim homes is because they elevated their national security level to their highest(except for martial law). Remember the Paris and Brussels attacks? In Belgium it was precisely because we didn't rush it this way that we received a terrorist attack. The french were able to clean up a lot of their mess because they had this TEMPORARY measure in place.

Fyi, you're not allowed to pray in public places because that's simply not what they're meant for. What would you think if every day a thousand muslims were to come pray at the Tiananmen square 3x a day. If they want to pray, they should go to their mosques or go pray at home.

ps: have you even ever been to France?? There's plenty of people who wear religious clothes. The police don't really care about that unless it's something like a Burka, which is forbidden in many other countries in europe. It's considered oppression of women. Did you really think that they would arrest people purely because their clothes marked a muslim moon, a christian cross or a jewish star?

pss: I would also advise you to look up Jean-Marie Le Pen before you start criticizing the way europe works. This guy has been warned over and over and over again not to be racist. He has a long history of court condemnations for various racist facts. The guy is against everybody who isn't white and against every frenchman who even tries to talk in english.

[waauw]

Vive le republique totalitaire!

It's 'la république' btw.

[Bernie Sanders]

I'm all for punishing anyone who denies the Holocaust!

My Grandfather died at Auschwitz.

[Bernie Sanders]

...he got drunk and fell out of the guard tower

[mrswdk]

Ehm, the only reason the government in France is doing unwarrented raids on muslim homes is because they elevated their national security level to their highest(except for martial law).

Well, yes. The reason the French government is currently operating as a totalitarian state is because it has granted itself the authority to act as a totalitarian state. I'm not disputing that. That is what totalitarian states do.

Compare that to the way things work in a non-totalitarian state, such as the UK. After the London bombings the British government could have 'done a France' and given itself the power to carry out the arbitrary detention of Muslims and the closing of mosques, but instead it decided to continue requiring that its police and security forces operate within the boundaries of a civilized legal system. No state of emergency was declared.

Fyi, you're not allowed to pray in public places because that's simply not what they're meant for.

Interesting that you say 'you'. I am perfectly free to pray or preach in a public place if I choose, because I live in the UK (a non-totalitarian state).

ps: have you even ever been to France?? There's plenty of people who wear religious clothes. The police don't really care about that unless it's something like a Burka, which is forbidden in many other countries in europe. It's considered oppression of women.

There are 28 countries in the EU; 3 (France, Belgium, Netherlands) have a ban on burkas in place. I guess you are using the definition of 'many' used by Bernie Sanders each time he says that 'many' people enjoy reading his OT posts.

It's considered oppression of women.

Interesting. Is it not considered oppression of women when a woman who considers it her religious duty to wear a burka is unable to even walk out her front door wearing it because the government will immediately punish her?

[mrswdk]

...he got drunk and fell out of the guard tower

Ba-dum-tiss!

Classic.

[warmonger1981]

Mrswdk wrote:

Interesting. Is it not considered oppression of women when a woman who considers it her religious duty to wear a burka is unable to even walk out her front door wearing it because the government will immediately punish her?





CHECK MATE.

[waauw]

Ehm, the only reason the government in France is doing unwarrented raids on muslim homes is because they elevated their national security level to their highest(except for martial law).

Well, yes. The reason the French government is currently operating as a totalitarian state is because it has granted itself the authority to act as a totalitarian state. I'm not disputing that. That is what totalitarian states do.

Compare that to the way things work in a non-totalitarian state, such as the UK. After the London bombings the British government could have 'done a France' and given itself the power to carry out the arbitrary detention of Muslims and the closing of mosques, but instead it decided to continue requiring that its police and security forces operate within the boundaries of a civilized legal system. No state of emergency was declared.

Dude how fucking retarded are you? WTF do you not understand about 'EMERGENCY FALL-BACK SYSTEMS AND RULES'? It's a temporary rule which receives a lot of backing from the people. Calling France totalitarian over this is like calling a country experiencing a temporary heat wave a tropical climate country.

Fyi, you're not allowed to pray in public places because that's simply not what they're meant for.

Interesting that you say 'you'. I am perfectly free to pray or preach in a public place if I choose, because I live in the UK (a non-totalitarian state).

Tell me, if people want to pray, why don't they just go home or to a mosque or to a church or wherever is actually appropriate. Do you even realize how Belgium and France got into this mess in the first place? BECAUSE EXTREMISTS WERE PREACHING FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMISM IN THE STREETS, IN THE PARKS, EVERYWHERE IN PUBLIC AND AUTHORITIES DIDN'T STOP IT.

ps: have you even ever been to France?? There's plenty of people who wear religious clothes. The police don't really care about that unless it's something like a Burka, which is forbidden in many other countries in europe. It's considered oppression of women.

There are 28 countries in the EU; 3 (France, Belgium, Netherlands) have a ban on burkas in place. I guess you are using the definition of 'many' used by Bernie Sanders each time he says that 'many' people enjoy reading his OT posts.

Oh funny how AGAIN you jump over half I said and you suddenly ignore how you were wrong that RELIGIOUS CLOTHING, which refers to 'all' religious clothing since you didn't specify and chose to generalize, is actually permitted. Now I'll admit I exagerated a bit, but this is starting to piss me off that it's impossible to have any kind of decent debate with you. What kind of piece of shit are you constantly ignoring half the things people say EVERY FUCKING TIME someone talks to you about a serious topic. Stop trying to have political debates if you're incapable of even ever admitting where you're wrong. Do you have narcissistic disorder or something? Because that would explain a lot why you don't seem to be able to admit to anything that comes close to hurting your pride.

It's considered oppression of women.

Interesting. Is it not considered oppression of women when a woman who considers it her religious duty to wear a burka is unable to even walk out her front door wearing it because the government will immediately punish her?

I'll ignore this because I know this comes from a person who also thinks a 10yo should be allowed to sleep with a parent because he/she wants to.

[waauw]

PS: The Burqa is forbidden in many more countries than just Belgium, France and the Netherlands. Those are just the countries where federal states banned burqas. In some countries the power to forbid burqa's simply lies with regional authorities rather than the federal. It's for instance forbidden in Barcelona.

[mrswdk]

Ehm, the only reason the government in France is doing unwarrented raids on muslim homes is because they elevated their national security level to their highest(except for martial law).

Well, yes. The reason the French government is currently operating as a totalitarian state is because it has granted itself the authority to act as a totalitarian state. I'm not disputing that. That is what totalitarian states do.

Compare that to the way things work in a non-totalitarian state, such as the UK. After the London bombings the British government could have 'done a France' and given itself the power to carry out the arbitrary detention of Muslims and the closing of mosques, but instead it decided to continue requiring that its police and security forces operate within the boundaries of a civilized legal system. No state of emergency was declared.

Dude how fucking retarded are you? WTF do you not understand about 'EMERGENCY FALL-BACK SYSTEMS AND RULES'? It's a temporary rule which receives a lot of backing from the people. Calling France totalitarian over this is like calling a country experiencing a temporary heat wave a tropical climate country.

A temporary (which has already run on longer than originally promised) totalitarian measure supported by the Judeo-Christian majority, but not by international human rights organizations such as Amnesty International or by the Muslim minority being targeted and harassed by the totalitarian government.

Tell me, if people want to pray, why don't they just go home or to a mosque or to a church or wherever is actually appropriate.

Sounds a lot like the classic 'I don't mind people being gay, just why do they have to rub it in my face'. It's a public space - it's none of your business if someone else wants to pray peacefully in it. Someone prayed out loud on the subway next to me the other day and I didn't break out in boils or start weeping blood. I don't see why it matters.

Oh funny how AGAIN you jump over half I said and you suddenly ignore how you were wrong that RELIGIOUS CLOTHING, which refers to 'all' religious clothing since you didn't specify and chose to generalize, is actually permitted.

French schools ban all religious clothing, right down to skull caps, sikh turbans and clothing/jewellery bearing religious symbols (such as the cross or crescent moon). That is what I was referencing when I said all religious clothing. The burka point is something else - that's a separate piece of totalitarian legislation targeted at only one specific minority.

It's considered oppression of women.

Interesting. Is it not considered oppression of women when a woman who considers it her religious duty to wear a burka is unable to even walk out her front door wearing it because the government will immediately punish her?

I'll ignore this because I know this comes from a person who also thinks a 10yo should be allowed to sleep with a parent because he/she wants to.[/quote]

i.e. 'I can't actually think of a proper response so I'm just going to try and distract you with a bit of ad hominem''

[DoomYoshi]

It's simple waauw: when China censors its good, when France censors its bad.

Why are you having a hard time understanding that mainland Europe is inferior to every other country in every way?