Russian World Cup 'like Hitler's Olympics'

[Neoteny]

A new fascist appears!

Shooting at shadows is hardly a way to win hearts and minds.

Whose hearts and minds do you think I'm trying to win here? On this page of the thread we have, other than me:

1. Someone posting nazi propaganda
2. Someone encouraging and defending the person posting nazi propaganda
3. A person who drops a sentence or two handwaving for a person posting nazi propaganda
4. A sexy chinese lady with poor english vocabulary
5. A mod for this website who has obviously very closely read this thread and left up a link to nazi propaganda and then chiding the one person challenging that poster for being a little grumpy?
6. A llama
7. A mexican demon baby.

The lady and llama are doing what they are known to do; one could judge them based on their posting history. I'm a little impressed that a website that clutches pearls over a nipple is allowing links to nazi propaganda to remain up, and also allow said poster to keep posting. But hey, who am I to set reasonable priorities. Plus, I just assumed that nobody had flagged the post as offensive so a mod wasn't going to be fucked to do their job. Yet here we are now with a mod posting in the thread, not to moderate or even post his own anti nazi sentiments for the sake of discussion, but instead to comment on the fact that Neoteny, a poster with a curmudgeonly reputation, was being a being a little disrespectful to a fascist and his supporting cast.

At the risk of being a little preachy here, I'm not here to win the hearts and minds of nazis. They have no hearts, and their minds are poisoned. I'm not here to provide discourse for people to read and ponder whether maybe fasism is a worthwhile economic system. I'm in this thread to challenge the idea that nazism has been maligned, that fascist economies are just or worth emulating, and that espousing these opinions will go unchallenged. These beliefs are toxic, and they are not respectable, and should not be respected. Whether you want the site you represent to be a space for nazis is your call, but I'm not going to treat them like they deserve polite debate. I'm not going to "hash it out" with fascists.

Frankly, I gave armati plenty of leeway starting in the other thread in which I spoke with him. Then he posted his link here, and it's just downhill from there. Bro's a fascist, and I'm not going to ease off him or anyone defending him.

@armati

Jesus christ i don't have time for more of this now. I'll be back later

[riskllama]

until then!

[armati]

R we allowed 2 say JC?

[nietzsche]

i'm just here so that Neoteny has to edit his list.

[The ram]

A new fascist appears!

Shooting at shadows is hardly a way to win hearts and minds.

Whose hearts and minds do you think I'm trying to win here? On this page of the thread we have, other than me:

1. Someone posting nazi propaganda
2. Someone encouraging and defending the person posting nazi propaganda
3. A person who drops a sentence or two handwaving for a person posting nazi propaganda
4. A sexy chinese lady with poor english vocabulary
5. A mod for this website who has obviously very closely read this thread and left up a link to nazi propaganda and then chiding the one person challenging that poster for being a little grumpy?
6. A llama

The lady and llama are doing what they are known to do; one could judge them based on their posting history. I'm a little impressed that a website that clutches pearls over a nipple is allowing links to nazi propaganda to remain up, and also allow said poster to keep posting. But hey, who am I to set reasonable priorities. Plus, I just assumed that nobody had flagged the post as offensive so a mod wasn't going to be fucked to do their job. Yet here we are now with a mod posting in the thread, not to moderate or even post his own anti nazi sentiments for the sake of discussion, but instead to comment on the fact that Neoteny, a poster with a curmudgeonly reputation, was being a being a little disrespectful to a fascist and his supporting cast.

At the risk of being a little preachy here, I'm not here to win the hearts and minds of nazis. They have no hearts, and their minds are poisoned. I'm not here to provide discourse for people to read and ponder whether maybe fasism is a worthwhile economic system. I'm in this thread to challenge the idea that nazism has been maligned, that fascist economies are just or worth emulating, and that espousing these opinions will go unchallenged. These beliefs are toxic, and they are not respectable, and should not be respected. Whether you want the site you represent to be a space for nazis is your call, but I'm not going to treat them like they deserve polite debate. I'm not going to "hash it out" with fascists.

Frankly, I gave armati plenty of leeway starting in the other thread in which I spoke with him. Then he posted his link here, and it's just downhill from there. Bro's a fascist, and I'm not going to ease off him or anyone defending him.

@armati

Jesus christ i don't have time for more of this now. I'll be back later

Sounds like someone needs a safe space or has extreme flatulence.

[Neoteny]

Sounds like someone needs a safe space or has extreme flatulence.

Haha, a new thing for the far right is their weird obsession with tumblr culture. I dunno if it's because they've gotten banned from their favorite slashfic site because they physically can't stop themselves from ranting about there only being two genders or what, but it's funny to me how extremely worked up y'all get about not being allowed somewhere you supposedly don't even want to be anyway.

But I'm not talking about a place I can go to be safe from different opinions. I don't particularly need that as a white dude. Everywhere is a safe space for me. I'm talking about there not being any fascists anywhere. If we're creating a "safe space" where there aren't any nazis, then that place should be everywhere. One of the few things the G.I. generation got right was killing a whole bunch of fascists. I'm on their side on that fight.

I mean, if you're farting though, I wouldn't mind being in a space where that isn't happening.

[mrswdk]

I'm not talking about a place I can go to be safe from different opinions. I don't particularly need that as a white dude. Everywhere is a safe space for me.

xeno's head just exploded.

[Neoteny]

Obviously there are "questionable" points to "story never told" which is what you chose to focus on, but by doing so, you miss the point entirely.

Which is unfortunate, I had said kudos to you as at least you were looking into it, most people are completely brain dead, or seem to be, slowly tho, I think with the net, people are opening their eyes.

The questionable parts of GSNT are the nazi propaganda. The unquestionable parts are the documentaries about nazi germany and world war 2 that you could just watch separately. Most of them are decent. But you didn't link to clips from those documentaries because those aren't the parts you are interested in. You're a fascist, so you wanted us to see the fascist apologia.

Even religious teachings tell us not to go into debt, usury is a negative. Jesus thru the money changers out.

Were the nazis murderous thugs? obviously, so were alot of other groups, the kahn for example had to be convinced that living people are more valuable than dead people as they pay taxes before he stopped killing everyone in sight for weeks after a battle.

Ever notice that the beginning of empires is violent, really violent? Its how we, our species, build empires
Genocides thruought history seem countless.
Start with Moses

This is rambling nonsense.

If you think debt is for you, you better read "Rich Dad Poor Dad". Robert Keyosaki, read all his books.

Or you could simply run up them credit cards and find out the result from experience. lol

That is exactly what governments are doing.

Goverments aren't households. If the only way you can perceive state-level economics is on the small-scale granular level of household budgeting, then it is evidence of a failure of imagination and critical thought. Fiscal responsibility is important for families, but national level economics is a different beast.

[Neoteny]

I'm not talking about a place I can go to be safe from different opinions. I don't particularly need that as a white dude. Everywhere is a safe space for me.

xeno's head just exploded.

Who?

[mrswdk]

I'm not talking about a place I can go to be safe from different opinions. I don't particularly need that as a white dude. Everywhere is a safe space for me.

xeno's head just exploded.

Who?

:O

xeno

[Dukasaur]

5. A mod for this website who has obviously very closely read this thread and left up a link to nazi propaganda and then chiding the one person challenging that poster for being a little grumpy?

I don't particularly have any issue with what you've said the armati and Ram. You think they're nazis; I think they're just tinfoil-hatters with a nazi fixation. There's a significant difference there. Still, I have no interest in wading too deep into that debate. Kudos to you for taking the time to actually watch their video and form an opinion; I know I wouldn't bother. By all means, carry on as you were.

The point at which I offered my sage advice was when CoF came by, made a tangential comment, and you immediately lumped him in with the other two. That made no sense to me. There was nothing in his comment which indicated he was taking sides; he was just making a tangential comment about one thing you said. In that sense, his post was almost the same as my response to Ram, earlier in the thread.

And that answers your question

Whose hearts and minds do you think I'm trying to win here?

The people who are reading the thread but not posting, obviously. Generally, the main participants in a thread are too heavily invested in their positions and aren't going to budge. The people who are reading and not posting, or posting very little, are your audience.

[armati]

Neoteny wrote:
Whose hearts and minds do you think I'm trying to win here?

The people who are reading the thread but not posting, obviously ....Dukasaur makes a good point.

From Neoteny
"Goverments aren't households. If the only way you can perceive state-level economics is on the small-scale granular level of household budgeting, then it is evidence of a failure of imagination and critical thought. Fiscal responsibility is important for families, but national level economics is a different beast."

You could not be more wrong, economics is math, There are 8/9 schools but they are all math.

Voltaire; Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value: zero

The only reason it seems dif to you is governments, or in our case, the federal reserve/central banks simply print it.
Which is exactly why Voltaire is correct, it gets printed to nothingness. Venasuala being our most recent example of exactly that.

If you dont think "modern" societies go broke read more history, it doesnt matter what government it is, capitalist democracy to fascist dictator the math is the same.

Duk might think thats "tin foil hat, nutter" stuff, no offence, but dont take economics lessons from Duk.

The U.S. has defaulted more than once, the last time if Im not mistaken was 1971, the USSR defaulted in 1991.
Very simply they spent more than income for too long, just like a household would default/ go bankrupt.

Bankruptcy by the way, is the way of capitalism, "bail outs" is socialist/communist, theft actually, so is bail ins.
So is inflation but thats another topic.

The 1971 default is a very interesting story, birth of the petro dollar, saudi arabia,de gaul and lots of spy "tin foil hat nutter" stuff involved. lol
Knowing and understanding that story might get you interested in the Petro Yuan, that was birthed march 26, 2018 (I think it was march 26, thats close anyway)
What you thinks gonna happen when U.S. dollars are not required for oil any more?

So,Neoteny, you gonna go flip the bird at those nazis? the ones the americans are supporting?
Some of them even wear the same insignia my father killed in the 40s.

Kinda looks like weve changed our thinking about nazis.
Wait a minute, didnt Prescot Bush make millions with nazis?then his son and grandson become pres of the U.S.?
Wernt american companies doing business with the nazis, even making gas? hmmmm maybe we always did like nazis?
Geez, that stuff is confusing, gotta be "tin foil nutter" stuff. lol sorry duk couldnt resist.

The only people that believe without question what their gov tells them are the "tin foil hat nutters" imo.

[Neoteny]

5. A mod for this website who has obviously very closely read this thread and left up a link to nazi propaganda and then chiding the one person challenging that poster for being a little grumpy?

I don't particularly have any issue with what you've said the armati and Ram. You think they're nazis; I think they're just tinfoil-hatters with a nazi fixation. There's a significant difference there.

:/

Still, I have no interest in wading too deep into that debate. Kudos to you for taking the time to actually watch their video and form an opinion; I know I wouldn't bother. By all means, carry on as you were.

I refuse to accept any congratulations for watching those videos. I'm a reluctant masochist and regret every second spent on them.

The point at which I offered my sage advice was when CoF came by, made a tangential comment, and you immediately lumped him in with the other two. That made no sense to me. There was nothing in his comment which indicated he was taking sides; he was just making a tangential comment about one thing you said. In that sense, his post was almost the same as my response to Ram, earlier in the thread.

Hardly. Don't sell yourself short here. Your response to Sam was thought out and on point, so not a tangential one-liner in the least. If only it were remarkable that he completely ignored it. Cough's response was glib and deflecting. It isn't worth a response beyond the Smash Bros reference I responded with (I know most of you probably think I'm a humorless dork, but you're only half right), but I'll break it down. Cough is comparing the defense of fascism to church attendance. This is actually funny in its own right, intentional or not, but whatever. This comparison breaks down in that there are plenty of reasons to go to church without believing in it. Family obligations, social interactions, spiritual guidance (even if not supernatural), etc. Why would someone defend Nazism? The most legit might be free speech for the sake of free speech? But it's irrelevant because we're not talking about state repression or anything here. This is just me bashing fascists. Other options include trolling, actually being a nazi, and, i dunno, just being a weirdo edgelord? f*ck all that.

And that answers your question

Whose hearts and minds do you think I'm trying to win here?

The people who are reading the thread but not posting, obviously. Generally, the main participants in a thread are too heavily invested in their positions and aren't going to budge. The people who are reading and not posting, or posting very little, are your audience.

There are really two ways to deal with fascists in an online environment. The first is discourse. Interact with them. Debate their points with them. Normalize them. Give them equal standing. This is how I used to interact with them. It's fun to a degree to play the logic nerd and "well actually" them and shame them. It's fun but not particularly effective. They don't ever change their minds, and observers leave thinking "that was reasonable and both parties made good points, but I agree with Neoteny that Nazis are bad" or "i agree with armati that the jews are running all the banks" and at an individual level we all go home and eat dinner and go to bed and that's it. Writ large though, that was the US 2016 election. The discourse was the New York Times op ed section. It's the Jon Stewarts and John Olivers and the Hillary Clintons. That's all fine and cathartic but it didn't do anything. Now we have a smooth-brained president following the suggestions of actual fascists and Keith Olbermann repeating "sir, have you no shame" over and over again into the void. Real effective stuff.

The alternative is to challenge them. Say "f*ck no get that bullshit out of here." This is drivel and it's below me. Because that's what it actually is. These people are nazis, and anyone who wants discourse with nazis is part of the problem. The audience here sees me criticizing them harshly, and I hope through that they recognize that they should check any sympathy they have for them. Really dig down into that because when the fascists are in control, whether it's the purely economic fascists or their white supremacist friends, they don't have that sympathy for you. I guarantee it.

[Neoteny]

From Neoteny
"Goverments aren't households. If the only way you can perceive state-level economics is on the small-scale granular level of household budgeting, then it is evidence of a failure of imagination and critical thought. Fiscal responsibility is important for families, but national level economics is a different beast."

You could not be more wrong, economics is math, There are 8/9 schools but they are all math.

Voltaire; Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value: zero

The only reason it seems dif to you is governments, or in our case, the federal reserve/central banks simply print it.
Which is exactly why Voltaire is correct, it gets printed to nothingness. Venasuala being our most recent example of exactly that.

If you dont think "modern" societies go broke read more history, it doesnt matter what government it is, capitalist democracy to fascist dictator the math is the same.

Duk might think thats "tin foil hat, nutter" stuff, no offence, but dont take economics lessons from Duk.

The U.S. has defaulted more than once, the last time if Im not mistaken was 1971, the USSR defaulted in 1991.
Very simply they spent more than income for too long, just like a household would default/ go bankrupt.

Bankruptcy by the way, is the way of capitalism, "bail outs" is socialist/communist, theft actually, so is bail ins.
So is inflation but thats another topic.

The 1971 default is a very interesting story, birth of the petro dollar, saudi arabia,de gaul and lots of spy "tin foil hat nutter" stuff involved. lol
Knowing and understanding that story might get you interested in the Petro Yuan, that was birthed march 26, 2018 (I think it was march 26, thats close anyway)
What you thinks gonna happen when U.S. dollars are not required for oil any more?

In theory I could argue with this if a) it was not incoherent and b) I gave any amount of shit about your weird hallucinations about the economy.

So,Neoteny, you gonna go flip the bird at those nazis? the ones the americans are supporting?
Some of them even wear the same insignia my father killed in the 40s.

Kinda looks like weve changed our thinking about nazis.
Wait a minute, didnt Prescot Bush make millions with nazis?then his son and grandson become pres of the U.S.?
Wernt american companies doing business with the nazis, even making gas? hmmmm maybe we always did like nazis?

Huh? No. f*ck those nazis and f*ck everyone in the american government that supports them and all the other fascist governments and revolutions we've been involved in. It goes without saying that the american government is, and has been for a long time, absolute garbage. Both parties.

[The ram]

5. A mod for this website who has obviously very closely read this thread and left up a link to nazi propaganda and then chiding the one person challenging that poster for being a little grumpy?

I don't particularly have any issue with what you've said the armati and Ram. You think they're nazis; I think they're just tinfoil-hatters with a nazi fixation. There's a significant difference there. Still, I have no interest in wading too deep into that debate. Kudos to you for taking the time to actually watch their video and form an opinion; I know I wouldn't bother. By all means, carry on as you were.

The point at which I offered my sage advice was when CoF came by, made a tangential comment, and you immediately lumped him in with the other two. That made no sense to me. There was nothing in his comment which indicated he was taking sides; he was just making a tangential comment about one thing you said. In that sense, his post was almost the same as my response to Ram, earlier in the thread.

And that answers your question

Whose hearts and minds do you think I'm trying to win here?

The people who are reading the thread but not posting, obviously. Generally, the main participants in a thread are too heavily invested in their positions and aren't going to budge. The people who are reading and not posting, or posting very little, are your audience.

I have a fixation on Nazis? I don't think so, I posted here only because I don't agree with people deciding what others should or shouldn't view. I believe in choice and freedom. Which I see being slowly eroded by gradualist socialist reform.

[Dukasaur]

I have a fixation on Nazis? I don't think so, I posted here only because I don't agree with people deciding what others should or shouldn't view. I believe in choice and freedom. Which I see being slowly eroded by gradualist socialist reform.

Really? It didn't sound that way.

I don't know who's deciding what you should or shouldn't watch, but we live in the most uncensored era since the dawn of man. At least in the West.

As for socialist reform, I don't know how it is in Britain, but here in North America the pendulum started swinging towards the right some 30 years ago. Whatever socialist reforms there were in the 60's and 70's have long since been eroded. The average worker today has fewer rights than his counterpart in WWII. In the 70's most working people had full-time positions, most had benefits, and most had the right not to be fired except for cause. Today, here in Ontario where I live, 44% of workers are temporary or contract workers, on call, with no permanent schedule, no benefits, and subject to be fired anytime without cause. The percentage varies across North America, but the basic pattern is the same everywhere. While workers' average wages continue to fall, corporate profits continue to rise, in good times and in bad. So if you still have some socialism in Britain, keep it and treasure it. You won't miss having rights until they're gone.

[mrswdk]

But what would you do about Aleppo?

[mrswdk]

most had the right not to be fired except for cause. Today, here in Ontario where I live, 44% of workers are... subject to be fired anytime without cause.

What do you mean by 'cause'?

[Neoteny]

In my defense I'm not saying armati can't be a fascist. I'm saying he shouldn't be, and he's garbage for being one. Absolute trash.

[mrswdk]

I'm not saying armati can't be a fascist. I'm saying he shouldn't be

Hmm.

[Neoteny]

Words have meanings ma'am.

[mrswdk]

The police aren't saying you can't kill people, they're just saying you shouldn't and they'll arrest you if they do.

[Neoteny]

The police aren't saying you can't kill people, they're just saying you shouldn't and they'll arrest you if they do.

I am not police or any other representative of a state. I have no police or political power to enforce an economic or political ideology. I'm just a dude on a website calling people nazis. They shouldn't be nazis. Nazis are trash.

[mrswdk]

The police don't have any power either. If you want to steal, they have no power to tell you that you can't. Because you can.

[2dimes]

I need to hit the button to buzz you out on this.

It might be limited but the police can detain you and thus prevent you from theft.

Neoteny can not detain anyone. If he could, it would not prevent them from being fascist or nazis.*

*This is not to be used as evidence of nazis and fascists expressed or implied to be in this thread.