HOLYWARS 1250

by **CHAMPOS** on Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:05 pm

Map Name: HOLYWARS 1250
Mapmaker(s):CHAMPOS
Number of Territories:44 (two start neutral, one being Jerusalem and one other at random, leaving 42 to be allocated, all regions start with 3 troops)
Special Features:An historically accurate map, no gaps, simple gameplay....
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: Tried to be historically accurate, on the following basis: the kingdoms/empires at the time (with the areas they ruled/controlled) and then categorised by the rulers religion. There were a number of kingdoms/empires/religions coming together at the same time in 1250AD...
- the Roman Catholics had taken control over mainland Europe from the last Islamic Caliphate holding in Spain,
- the Islamic Caliphates were being attacked from the east by the Tengerian Mongols and from the west by the Roman Catholic crusades,
- the northern Eastern Orthodox territories were under Tengerian Mongol control,
- the Tengerian Mongols had been halted by their leadership changes and power struggles,
- the Indian Hindus were under attack from the Islamic Caliphates and Tengerian Mongols,
- the Oriental Orthodox were under attack from the Islamic Caliphates,
- Crusades continued to Jerusalem, with the following all heading in its direction: Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Islamic Caliphates, Jews and there is also evidence the Tengerian Mongols set foot in Palestine at the time...
Who will prevail...?

[url][url=https://imgur.com/J6gtLHE]

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LATEST DRAFT

by **Donelladan** on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:02 pm

Looks quite similar to the third crusade map to me.

by **HitRed** on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:53 pm

Does India have a major religious spot?

by **riskllama** on Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:37 pm

yeah, too similar to 3rd crusade imo.

by **CHAMPOS** on Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:43 pm

This came from a draft map posted on Conquer Club 10 years ago - The Crusades 1200, never got round to finishing it!!, hopefully the thread can be attached some time...

I liked the idea of trying not to have mark-outed regions on the map, which hopefully makes it different and complete.

Great idea about the Indian Peninsula, it also enables the Empire of the Great Khan to be included - which covers ruling powers from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and enables another religion to be included.

Would need to be tidied up, but something like....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4a7enn4p4pux3s/IMG_2550.JPG?dl=0

Roman Catholics - territories 14 - armies 8
islamic Caliphates - territories 9 - armies 5
Mongol Tribes - territories 9 - armies 5
Eastern Orthodox - territories 3 - armies 3
Indian Hindus - territories 4 - armies 2
Baltic Pagans - territories 3- armies 2
Jerusalem - territories 1 - armies 1

43 territories in total...

THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL DRAFT

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4a7enn4p4pux3s/version%201%20IMG_2550.JPG?dl=0

by **CHAMPOS** on Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:35 am

Updated version

Hopefully this makes the map different, whilst continuing to be historically accurate

Territories - 40

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgcdat2gb8ure5t/version%203HOLYWARS%201250%20X.jpg?dl=0

by **IcePack** on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:11 pm

Photobucket doesn’t show the image anymore. Consider switching to new image host

by **CHAMPOS** on Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:12 am

Thanks IcePack

Can you recommend a site to use that is free (photo bucket now charges for this!)

Do dropbox links work?

Champs

by **IcePack** on Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:38 am

CHAMPOS wrote:Thanks IcePack

Can you recommend a site to use that is free (photo bucket now charges for this!)

Do dropbox links work?

Champs

I use imgur, free and works much faster then photobucket

by **CHAMPOS** on Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:10 pm

Slightly updated version

territories 40

[url][url=https://imgur.com/Mg9WaYk]

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by **HitRed** on Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:52 pm

Looks interesting to me! Adding India was smart.

Please review the ratio of bonus to number of terr.

India is 6 terr worth +2
Mongolia is 7 terr worth +6

HitRed

by **IcePack** on Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:17 pm

HitRed wrote:Looks interesting to me! Adding India was smart.

Please review the ratio of bonus to number of terr.

India is 6 terr worth +2
Mongolia is 7 terr worth +6

HitRed

I think bonus also factors how many connecting territories

by **CHAMPOS** on Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:27 am

Map Stats

The armies are a function of number of territories and border territories to defend....

Territories, borders to defend, proposed number of armies....
Roman Catholics - 14, 4, 8
Islamic Caliphates - 9, 3, 6
Mogol Tribes - 7, 5, 6
Eastern Orthodox - 3, 3, 2
Hindu Indians - 6, 3, 2
Jerusalem - 1, 1, 1

Plus there are a few interesting extensions of this,
Islamic Califates surround Jerusalem
With the Delhi Sultanate the Hindu Indians just need to defend one territory for 3armies

Would appreciate feedback on the army levels others think....

Which religion would you for first...

[url][url=https://imgur.com/oJwP1a1]

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by **HitRed** on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:17 am

Is this a conquest style map where each player starts as a particular group (Mongols, Catholics)? Would the Holy Cities start as capitals or neutral?

by **CHAMPOS** on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:19 pm

This would be played as usual, the key will be where to focus efforts first (larger regions = larger bonuses), or smaller ones to get a foot hold. There are no capital cities or holy cities (aside from Jerusalem which is a territory worth 1 army). Hopefully that makes sense...

Simple map, simple gameplay, historically accurate....

by **CHAMPOS** on Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:04 am

Updated Map...

[url][url=https://imgur.com/UmZB65F]

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by **iancanton** on Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:43 pm

CHAMPOS wrote:With the Delhi Sultanate the Hindu Indians just need to defend one territory for 3armies

Would appreciate feedback on the army levels others think....

Which religion would you for first...

for the reason u've mentioned, combined with india being in a corner of the map, the hindu bonus is best reduced from +2 to +1, otherwise the hindus will win most of the time. a similar thing happens in classic games, with players vying for the remote, and therefore powerful, oceania bonus.

ian.

by **CHAMPOS** on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:15 am

how about....a nice balance to it....

Roman Catholics - territories 14 - armies 7
islamic Caliphates - territories 9 - armies 7
Mongol Tribes - territories 7 - armies 7
Eastern Orthodox - territories 3 - armies 1
Indian Hindus - territories 6 - armies 1
Jerusalem - territories 1 - armies 1

by **CHAMPOS** on Tue May 01, 2018 8:04 am

Changed following a few comments....
Armies:
Roman Catholics - 7
Islamic Caliphates - 7
Mogol Tribes - 7
Eastern Orthodox - 1
Hindu Indians - 1
Jerusalem - 1 (starts neutral 5 troops)
Only water crossing between Kingdom of England and Kingdom of France

Territories:
Roman Catholics - 14 (4 to defend)
Islamic Caliphates - 9 (3 to defend, 2 to defend with Ilkhanate)
Mogol Tribes - 7 (5 to defend)
Eastern Orthodox - 3 (3 to defend)
Hindu Indians - 6 (3 to defend, 1 to defend with Delhi Sultanate)
Jerusalem - 1 (starts neutral 5 troops)
Total territories - 40

[url][url=https://imgur.com/NQpluBU]

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by **HitRed** on Tue May 01, 2018 9:07 am

"Only water crossing between Kingdom of England and Kingdom of France"

Does Castille and Marinid connect? The Muslims invaded Spain from Africa. Your call...just asking.

HitRed

by **iancanton** on Wed May 02, 2018 5:31 pm

based on the figures listed, castille (which ought to be castile, with one l, unless u happen to be french) currently does not connect to marinid.

i'd expect the roman catholic bonus to be at least 10 troops because of the sheer number of regions to be conquered, being over one-third of the map. the other two big bonuses seem to be nicely balanced against each other.

jerusalem looks doomed to remain neutral in most non-trench games because few players will attack 5 neutrals for a +1 bonus. 2 or 3 neutrals is more realistic.

the eastern orthodox text blends into the background of the legend and is hard to see.

now the first difficult part. the map image is far too big. it's more than twice the width of a 630x600 small map, so there's work to do to reduce the size.

ian.

by **Fewnix** on Thu May 03, 2018 2:37 am

I like it

A suggestion from someone totally lacking map making skills- maybe take a look at Eurasia, another huge map, for some ideas , e.g. one region belonging to two boni areas e,g, in Eurasia holding Italy gives you part of both the Mediterranean boni and Central Europe. so in this map holding Jerusalem gives you part of two boni.
just a suggestion

by **iancanton** on Sat May 05, 2018 5:19 pm

the zagwe kingdom, which was orthodox christian, was in the area labelled as begena. the begena name itself appears to be a mistake, as it's a musical instrument and not the name of a state.

http://ethiopianorthodox.org/english/et ... ml#revival
http://www.temesgen.com/begena

ian.

by **Dukasaur** on Sun May 06, 2018 12:57 am

HitRed wrote:"Only water crossing between Kingdom of England and Kingdom of France"

Does Castille and Marinid connect? The Muslims invaded Spain from Africa. Your call...just asking.

HitRed

Sicily-Tunisia and Sicily-Italy were both short water crossings which were in fact often crossed.

One would think Rhodes-Cyprus and Cyprus-Aleppo would also be common sea crossings. I suppose it's a bit premature to speculate, though. First we'll have to see what terts he divides the relevant empires into. Will Sicily be one tert or several, for instance.