Kavanaugh- Alleged victim comes forward

[mookiemcgee]

Did anyone else here the interview where Kavanaugh claimed he couldn't of done this as he was still a virgin well into his 30's?

The scale of who's telling the truth would tip for me if a few women came out to just say they had consensual sex with him during these years.

To be fair, he said a lot of stuff in his interviews and testimony that have been now proven to be untruthful. I'm not sure the choir boy image he wanted to present really holds up to much scrutiny anymore.

I feel sorry for his wife, but then I did binge watch The Good Wife a month ago.

I thought the big new shinny hearing was tomorrow? Frankly I'm 80% confident he's getting confirmed regardless of all this stuff (this is my odd's maker hat completly aside from any personal views)

[thegreekdog]

Some of this may already have been covered, but updates wise, a lot has happened. So to keep people up to speed:

- 2 more women have come forward accusing Kavanaugh- one of sexual assault, one of rape, and perhaps serial rape.
- Kavanaugh presented a calendar as evidence to prove his innocence.
- Kavanaugh's yearbook entry was exposed, and it doesn't make him look good.
- More witnesses came forward to support the women.
- Some of Kavanuagh's backers are now withdrawing their support.

Not a great few days for Kavanaugh, but a real goldmine for investigative reporters.

The second and third accusers did not accuse him of sexual assault, rape, or serial rape.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics ... index.html

To be fair, he said a lot of stuff in his interviews and testimony that have been now proven to be untruthful.

Like what specifically?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... -dishonest

Here's an "article" from Vox (a definitively left wing publication). The premise of the "article" is Kavanaugh lied to Congress. Having read the "article," I have not seen any indication that Kavanaugh said something that was proven to be untrue. I urge you to read the "article;" in the likely event you do not, I'll boil it down for you:

(1) Kavanaugh is a bull shitter / ass kisser (because he "buttered up" Trump). Therefore, since he's will to kiss ass or bullshit, he must be a liar.

[quote-"Vox"]The buttering-up of Trump is not, viewed in isolation, the worst thing in the world. But in some ways, its sheer triviality speaks volumes about Kavanaugh’s character. By the time he delivered those introductory remarks, Trump had already picked him. But in addition to whatever flattery he offered Trump in private, he was so thirsty for the president’s approval that he chose to gild the lily in his public remarks and then reemphasize loyalty to Trump during sworn testimony.[/quote]

(2) Kavanaugh misled or dissembled on certain issues (none of which can be proven he lied about). Therefore he must be a liar.

And you’re not supposed to mislead Congress — even if you manage to do so in ways that don’t meet the legal standard for perjury.

The "article" goes out of its way to try to paint Kavanaugh as a liar but can't actually show any lies that he actually told that can be proven. Do you have anything in particular you were thinking about?

[thegreekdog]

Did anyone else here the interview where Kavanaugh claimed he couldn't of done this as he was still a virgin well into his 30's?

The scale of who's telling the truth would tip for me if a few women came out to just say they had consensual sex with him during these years.

To be fair, he said a lot of stuff in his interviews and testimony that have been now proven to be untruthful. I'm not sure the choir boy image he wanted to present really holds up to much scrutiny anymore.

I feel sorry for his wife, but then I did binge watch The Good Wife a month ago.

I thought the big new shinny hearing was tomorrow? Frankly I'm 80% confident he's getting confirmed regardless of all this stuff (this is my odd's maker hat completly aside from any personal views)

I just checked - there are now 6 allegations. I think he's done.

[Symmetry]

Do you think he'll even have a job to go back to?

[saxitoxin]

Do you think he'll even have a job to go back to?

It still requires a trial and conviction in the House of Representatives followed by a 2/3 vote of the Senate to remove a Circuit Court judge. For the time being, small groups of plus-sized women can't - on their own - remove judges. He could stay on the D.C. Circuit Court - the second most powerful court in America - until he's 110 if he wants.

But, in any case, the job he's going to next is Supreme Court. Hopefully his mere presence so shocks Ginsberg that she keels over and President Trump can grab another SCOTUS seat on top of the two he's got.

[thegreekdog]

Do you think he'll even have a job to go back to?

It still requires a trial and conviction in the House of Representatives followed by a 2/3 vote of the Senate to remove a Circuit Court judge. For the time being, small groups of plus-sized women can't - on their own - remove judges.

But, in any case, the job he's going to next is Supreme Court.

Apparently the NY Times (which, last I checked, didn't have the best relationship with the president) just said that they could not corroborate any of the third accuser's claims and that Avenetti did not make her available for an interview.

Related aside - Does it bother anyone else that a woman who absolutely believes she was sexually assaulted is now being lumped together with two women who may have seen Kavanaugh at a party where sexual assault may have been committed by other people? Like don't these weirdly non-specific allegations denigrate the initial allegation? And shouldn't that bother us all? It's like "Bill Cosby sexually assaulted me" followed by "I know Bill Cosby used to go to these parties where people were getting sexually assaulted, but I'm not sure if it was him." Again, people should be ashamed with this.

[Symmetry]

Some of this may already have been covered, but updates wise, a lot has happened. So to keep people up to speed:

- 2 more women have come forward accusing Kavanaugh- one of sexual assault, one of rape, and perhaps serial rape.
- Kavanaugh presented a calendar as evidence to prove his innocence.
- Kavanaugh's yearbook entry was exposed, and it doesn't make him look good.
- More witnesses came forward to support the women.
- Some of Kavanuagh's backers are now withdrawing their support.

Not a great few days for Kavanaugh, but a real goldmine for investigative reporters.

The second and third accusers did not accuse him of sexual assault, rape, or serial rape.

I'm not sure what you mean-

Ms Ramirez's account-

"Ramirez said the group was playing a drinking game and she became inebriated. Later in the evening she was on the floor and remembered a “penis being in front” of her face before she pushed the person away, causing her to touch it. She said she recalled Kavanaugh standing next to her, laughing and pulling up his pants. Another student then yelled down the hall: “Brett Kavanaugh just put his penis in Debbie’s face.“

Sounds like sexual assault to me.

A third accuser of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh publicly identified herself Wednesday and alleged that Kavanaugh and others in the early 1980s spiked the drinks of girls at high school parties with intoxicants to make it easier for them to be gang raped.

The woman, Julie Swetnick, said Kavanaugh lined up with other boys, including his close friend Mark Judge, waiting to rape those girls at many parties — and that she once became a victim herself.

The allegations were detailed in an affidavit, signed under penalty of perjury, that was released by Swetnick’s lawyer, Michael Avenatti. Her statement was sent to a senior staffer on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Sounds like rape, and serial rape to me.

There are various sources for this, but I just took the top two in my searches, respectively:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-yorker-deborah-ramirez-brett-kavanaugh_us_5ba81e37e4b0375f8f9e41f5

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html

[HitRed]

I'm confident Kavanaugh is going to the Supreme Court.

I'm also hoping the Supreme Court writes a letter (signed by all eight or soon nine) to Congress asking for the process be overhauled. Clearly there is nothing CIVIL about it.

[saxitoxin]

Do you think he'll even have a job to go back to?

It still requires a trial and conviction in the House of Representatives followed by a 2/3 vote of the Senate to remove a Circuit Court judge. For the time being, small groups of plus-sized women can't - on their own - remove judges.

But, in any case, the job he's going to next is Supreme Court.

Apparently the NY Times (which, last I checked, didn't have the best relationship with the president) just said that they could not corroborate any of the third accuser's claims and that Avenetti did not make her available for an interview.

The funniest part is that the new accuser was in her second year at the University of Maryland at the time she was supposedly partying with high school sophomores.

Sixty high school classmates of Kavanaugh have just co signed a letter saying they'd never heard of any such parties.

Classic case of "she said vs he and he and he and he he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he and he said."

[Symmetry]

Do you think he'll even have a job to go back to?

It still requires a trial and conviction in the House of Representatives followed by a 2/3 vote of the Senate to remove a Circuit Court judge. For the time being, small groups of plus-sized women can't - on their own - remove judges.

But, in any case, the job he's going to next is Supreme Court.

Apparently the NY Times (which, last I checked, didn't have the best relationship with the president) just said that they could not corroborate any of the third accuser's claims and that Avenetti did not make her available for an interview.

Related aside - Does it bother anyone else that a woman who absolutely believes she was sexually assaulted is now being lumped together with two women who may have seen Kavanaugh at a party where sexual assault may have been committed by other people? Like don't these weirdly non-specific allegations denigrate the initial allegation? And shouldn't that bother us all? It's like "Bill Cosby sexually assaulted me" followed by "I know Bill Cosby used to go to these parties where people were getting sexually assaulted, but I'm not sure if it was him." Again, people should be ashamed with this.

I think I trust news outlets that the President doesn't have a good relationship with more than the one he does, tbh.

I also don't think that more women coming forward weakens the allegations against him. That's some weird logic you're using TGD.

[thegreekdog]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

[saxitoxin]

I also don't think that more women coming forward weakens the allegations against him. That's some weird logic you're using TGD.

I heard Kavanaugh raped Miley Cyrus at a high school party in 1982. More bad news for Kavanaugh.

[thegreekdog]

Do you think he'll even have a job to go back to?

It still requires a trial and conviction in the House of Representatives followed by a 2/3 vote of the Senate to remove a Circuit Court judge. For the time being, small groups of plus-sized women can't - on their own - remove judges.

But, in any case, the job he's going to next is Supreme Court.

Apparently the NY Times (which, last I checked, didn't have the best relationship with the president) just said that they could not corroborate any of the third accuser's claims and that Avenetti did not make her available for an interview.

Related aside - Does it bother anyone else that a woman who absolutely believes she was sexually assaulted is now being lumped together with two women who may have seen Kavanaugh at a party where sexual assault may have been committed by other people? Like don't these weirdly non-specific allegations denigrate the initial allegation? And shouldn't that bother us all? It's like "Bill Cosby sexually assaulted me" followed by "I know Bill Cosby used to go to these parties where people were getting sexually assaulted, but I'm not sure if it was him." Again, people should be ashamed with this.

I think I trust news outlets that the President doesn't have a good relationship with more than the one he does, tbh.

I also don't think that more women coming forward weakens the allegations against him. That's some weird logic you're using TGD.

Yes, the NY Times, a bastion of anti-Trump, does not believe the allegations of Swetnick or Avenetti.

I didn't say it weakened the allegations. I said it denigrates (or diminishes is a better term) the initial and serious allegation specifically referring to Kavanaugh. The more these tenuous allegations come out, the more people believe Kavanaugh is being smeared by Democrats for political reasons including with respect to the initial allegation. Certainly, if any of these allegations were credible, I would have a different view. But they aren't credible.

[mookiemcgee]

After 30+ years it really is just a case of he said she said... the lack of actual evidence (rather than just testimony) is why i think in the end, despite any testimony involving first hand accounts of anything from his 20's, that he will be confirmed.

Republicans are now in too deep and with an election coming up can't afford to let this go off the rails. Granted, folks in Flake's position can be wild cards, but my sense is they are letting due process/diligence happen but will then go ahead and confirm.

If someone came forward with say... a 35 year old boy with Kav's DNA profile its a different story.

[saxitoxin]

If someone came forward with say... a 35 year old boy with Kav's DNA profile its a different story.

TGD anything you want to admit to us?

[thegreekdog]

If someone came forward with say... a 35 year old boy with Kav's DNA profile its a different story.

TGD anything you want to admit to us?

I'm 39 and dark-skinned. Ain't me.

[Symmetry]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

Would you like to read the sworn affidavit from Ms. Swetnick? It's readily available online if you're interested, but you can find a copy here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html

Points 12 and 13 refer to the serial rape and personal rape, if you need to skip ahead, but the whole thing is pretty damning.

[saxitoxin]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

Would you like to read the sworn affidavit from Swetnick? It's readily available online if you're interested, but you can find a copy here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html

There's nothing special about a sworn affidavit other than it will land Swetnick in prison for two years if she got anything in it ... like her statement that there are other witnesses ... wrong.

[thegreekdog]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

Would you like to read the sworn affidavit from Ms. Swetnick? It's readily available online if you're interested, but you can find a copy here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html

Points 12 and 13 refer to the serial rape and personal rape, if you need to skip ahead, but the whole thing is pretty damning.

I didn't find a copy of the affidavit in the link you provided. Point out to me again where Swetnick says Kavanaugh raped her. I have not seen it in any of the many, many articles I've read.

Interestingly, it appears the Republicans (not the Democrats) are starting to throw out anything they've received including an anonymous letter from a woman whose daughter saw Kavanuagh throw the daughter's friend up against a wall and a letter from what appears to be a deranged anti-Trumper that Kavanaugh and Judge raped a woman on a boat in New Hampshire somewhere. So, with little or no shame, the Republicans are now apparently engaged in an effort to link Ford's accusation to these other, much less tenable, accusations. A Democratic senator apparently thinks as much.

[saxitoxin]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

Would you like to read the sworn affidavit from Swetnick? It's readily available online if you're interested, but you can find a copy here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html

There's nothing special about a sworn affidavit other than it will land Swetnick in prison for two years if she got anything in it ... like her statement that there are other witnesses ... wrong.

I take that back. I just found it on Scribd. It's an unsworn declaration, not an affidavit as is being reported by the #FakeNews. I love how all of the accusers are bending over backwards to avoid saying anything under oath.

[saxitoxin]

The National Review asks of Swetnick...

Why would an adult go repeatedly to parties at which minors were being gang raped, and, having figured out what was going on, resolve only to “avoid the punch”?

[mookiemcgee]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

Would you like to read the sworn affidavit from Ms. Swetnick? It's readily available online if you're interested, but you can find a copy here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html

Points 12 and 13 refer to the serial rape and personal rape, if you need to skip ahead, but the whole thing is pretty damning.

11 seem like alot of conjecture on her part. I mean she doesn't specifically say anything except that she "thinks" they made the punch stronger. with all due respect punch is always spiked at high school parties, and that isn't because all men want to run trains on women. It just means they are there to get drunk without parents seeing them drink from booze bottles.

12 and 13 are pretty heavy stuff. Again 12 is really just what she 'thinks' happened to others, no real first hand knowledge is implied outside of seeing men standing in a hallway.

13 though, man that's tough stuff to read. And it's heartbreaking that they didn't go to authorities back then, cus frankly it's just more he said she said now after so much time. The only way I see this derailing the nomination is if someone named as complicit (rather than a victim) confirms it via affidavit. Now that could sink the ship. Again, 'rape babies' make excellent evidence.

[thegreekdog]

If there were repeated gang rapes at high school parties over weeks and weeks then there should be plenty of proof. I would think bad news travels fast at private schools and the girls wouldn't want to go.

If I went to a party and someone got raped I wouldn't think twice about going again.

That's what I don't get about Swetnick; she knew about this whole spiking the punch and then running a train, but still want to these high school parties (while she was in college) AND partook in the punch. I won't pretend I know anything about this woman or her circumstances but it sounds weird to me.

In any event, women who are sexually assaulted tend not to report. There's a whole lot of studies on this and it's fairly scientifically sound and proven. I would expect this is especially true with high school girls for lots of reasons (popularity, self-esteem, not wanting parents to know they were drinking). I have kids and I'm frankly horrified about what could happen when they are in high school (note I was horrified from the moment my wife was pregnant; this Kavanaugh stuff did not make me horrified).

[Symmetry]

From Ms Swetnick's affidavit to the Senate:

12 I also witnessed efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to cause girls to become inebriated and disoriented so they could then be "gang raped" in a side room or bedroom by a "train" of numerous boys. I have a firm recollection of seeing boys lined up outside rooms at many of these parties waiting for their "turn" with a girl inside the room. These boys included Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh.

13 In approximately 1982, I became the victim of one of these "gang" or "train" rapes where Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh were present. Shortly after the incident, I shared what had transpired with at least two other people. During the incident, I was incapacitated without my consent and unable to fight off the boys raping me. I believe I was drugged using Quualudes or something similar placed in what I was drinking.