INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[Metsfanmax]

It seems to me that getting bumped could mean you don't find your food, but you also don't miss it, and that could explain Ragian's claim.

[Sirius Kase]

Can't you see whats going on here... Serius going with ZaBeast, Skoffin defending me, I tell you we have factions or two towns....

Dakky was being too confusing. I can't believe anyone with an honest role could be that vague. Now he's suggesting factions.

Zabeast has been informative. I don't know whether he is town or scum. For all I know, he is scum and his info is bullcrap. I wasn't going to say that because I don't know. It would have been rude to call him scum just for being nice. But, it isn't rude for me to quietly go and verify anything that is verifiable.

Dakky and Skoffin, what a pair! I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out. If defending you is scummy, then are you claiming to be scum? Why should that make any more sense than you claiming to be a commuting hermit stingray?

[Metsfanmax]

Not sure what to think about Ragian. (Yes, he is who I targeted last night. No, I won't explain why yet.) He has clearly been breadcrumbing the passive poisoner claim, by asking for a vote on whether the passive poisoner should reveal themselves. But Ragian already suggested quite a while ago, when he proposed the vote, why passive poisoner is bad for town. So why did he need to wait for a vote? Was he just trying to get people on the record? It seems like something town could plausibly do, or maybe it's something third party/scum does to make it look like there was town support for them claiming. I've been thinking this over for a while (since I suspected it was Ragian) but I still have no conclusion on this yet. I don't think he is scum. I can't decide between town and third party.

[Metsfanmax]

Unvote: Skoffin
Vote: Ragian

Either this is a bastard mod setup or Ragian is lying about going for food.

Very strong FOS on this. I've already suspected Pika for a while, and jumping in like this with such certainty while we still have no clear idea how this setup works makes no sense to me.

[Sirius Kase]

What a fucking riot this day is.


Blacky, did you visit Ragian N1?

Blacky's been silent for a very long time.

Blacky's probably dead. Strike might not have been a doctor after all. Blacky just thought he was healed. His body will be found floating upside down, no longer swimming with the fishes.

Hell, I don't know. We probably are playing a variant of mafia, but instead of being traditional, they have formed a sleeper cell. Or, maybe they are using slow acting poisons that don't kick in until you think you are well. I'm expecting for us to find out any day now.

[Metsfanmax]

Please everyone stop already with the bastard setup theories. Wild speculation helps absolutely no one.

[dakky21]

Please everyone stop already with the bastard setup theories. Wild speculation helps absolutely no one.

D1 was speculation day. Not much was speculated though. After that two lynches and what we know? Nothing. I don't see anything wrong in more speculation as it doesn't help but it doesn't hurts either.

[Sirius Kase]

Please everyone stop already with the bastard setup theories. Wild speculation helps absolutely no one.

Speculation helps me! It's how I figure out the game. I was about to vote Dakky for being intentionally confusing, but now I'm thinking Mets, for wanting to stop speculation. Why would an honest person want to stop speculation? probably because the speculation is too close to the truth.

Sleeper cell mafia makes the most sense. Mafia without any killing just isn't mafia. Let's be ready when they wake up. They will try to catch us sleeping.

But, yeah, I'm tired of the misogynistic stuff. I honestly don't know or care if the game designers are male or female. It should be irrelevant. If this setup was created without the assistance of a man, it doesn't mean it must be a bad setup.

Dang, it's rough choosing, I've been checking out both of them, and I'll go with whoever has the longest wagon. I think that's Dakky. Mets, tomorrow, but it's easy to switch.

Vote Dakky

[dakky21]

Please everyone stop already with the bastard setup theories. Wild speculation helps absolutely no one.

Speculation helps me! It's how I figure out the game. I was about to vote Dakky for being intentionally confusing, but now I'm thinking Mets, for wanting to stop speculation. Why would an honest person want to stop speculation? probably because the speculation is too close to the truth.

Sleeper cell mafia makes the most sense. Mafia without any killing just isn't mafia. Let's be ready when they wake up. They will try to catch us sleeping.

But, yeah, I'm tired of the misogynistic stuff. I honestly don't know or care if the game designers are male or female. It should be irrelevant. If this setup was created without the assistance of a man, it doesn't mean it must be a bad setup.

Dang, it's rough choosing, I've been checking out both of them, and I'll go with whoever has the longest wagon. I think that's Dakky. Mets, tomorrow, but it's easy to switch.

As BuJaber said... What?

[Sirius Kase]

Please everyone stop already with the bastard setup theories. Wild speculation helps absolutely no one.

D1 was speculation day. Not much was speculated though. After that two lynches and what we know? Nothing. I don't see anything wrong in more speculation as it doesn't help but it doesn't hurts either.

I agree, here's a summary of my thoughts. I'll keep it short since I've said it all before.
Sleeper Cell, wouldn't be mafia without killing. They will wake up when we least expect. Salt and fresh might be significant. Not factions, though, fresh might die of thirst or something. Food, we might need to eat, too. It's especially interesting if it's been weaponized. Go for food, get poisoned if there's a poisoner or experience some other kind of attack. So far, all we have is poisonings. Is there going to be other ways to die?

Dakky, I voted for you before I saw this. It was a hard decision, so I'll check back later. I don't want us to overdo it with the speculation, but I do want to know which theories are more popular, or more realistic.

[dakky21]

I mean WTF actually!? Male or female game designers?! What? Speculating helps you but sleeper cells?! What?! I got lost there completely.

Unless you know something about sleeping cells and mafia, that could change the outcome...

[Pikanchion]

What is your favourite food Ragian?

[Sirius Kase]

I mean WTF actually!? It's an expression.
Male or female game designers?! Shouldn't matter, but people keep using that word. I just consulted a dictionary. It literally means a child whose father has abandoned him and his mother. It's normally used as an insult. As though you can't expect anything good from a person who was raised by a single mom. But, it can mean other things. It can be an adjective that means a thing is: "no longer in its pure or original form; debased." I'll admit that might be intended here, but it's hard not to read it as an insult.
What? Speculating helps you but sleeper cells?! What?! I got lost there completely.

Unless you know something about sleeping cells and mafia, that could change the outcome...

No, it's just speculation. Either the game really is crippled and mafia has no night kill, or they are a sleeper cell, living among us as seemingly normal people. Look it up, it's a well known concept..

sleeper cell (plural sleeper cells). A group of people (sleepers) who inconspicuously remain dormant in a community until activated, by a prearranged signal, ..

I think we need someone to lead a discussion. Someone who knows something about scumhunting. There must be a better methodology.

[strike wolf]

Sorry for the absense, this last week has been brutal. Peeked in enough to know that Dakky thinks Razor is a bastard and Rage claimed passive poisoner but didn't really absorb it so I'll have to read back through.

[ZaBeast]

Not into those sleeper cells theories and whatnot but those posts were pretty funny to read.
A bastard mod is just a mod that lies/is deceptive to the players. A sleeper cell would be a bastard setup for instance.

It's not such a bad deal if you can weaponize it. That's what I was saying about Dakky.

So you think people were passively poisoned because Ragian went for food? I'm pretty sure they were because they targeted him (mets admited to at least)

[Skoffin]

Ahoy chaps! I've been quite absent for a PLETHORA!c of reasons. A dash of limited time here, a hint of CC login problems there, and admittedly a heaping dose of ceebs because I'm convinced this setup is kinda fucked based on my own personal theories.

I have some catching up to do, in the meantime I'll clarify that my overall opinions presented thus far have been based partly on what others have said, and a lot based on my own role. Others have stated they have been somewhat confused by their own roles, and they are not alone. I was confused on my own role at first as it seemed by action didn't seem to properly align with my role name; and it turned out I was given the wrong role title. Which makes me wonder whether it was just a poor labelling at first or whether I was given the role title of another player. Either way that too has added to the basis of my theories. So for those who have been wondering whether I'm randomly shittalking or know things by other means, it's mostly from role info. (But also a bit of shit talking)

I earlier said I thought there was likely a SK and a mafia team, but now I'm starting to wonder if there are multiple smaller teams or multiple individuals working alone. Either way I am 100% certain there are at least 2 non-town sides that are not 'together', and for the rest of the game I will be treating it as fact.

[Sirius Kase]

And Razor is a guy, and I misunderstood something, not about Raz, but about insults. Things commonly used as insults can have secondary meanings that aren't insulting at all. So, I'll have to get used to it if it's a standard part of the lingo. That word is no longer an insult. But, I still have a tendency to use real world definitions.

So, if the idea of mafia intentionally allowing two nights to go by without a kill is not remarkable enough to call them a sleeper cell, I won't use that term.

It's better to think that town has some damn good role blockers, bus drivers, or whatever. If they weren't anonymous, they might already be dead. It's easy to stay alive if mafia is asleep. It they are trying to kill us and this is the best they can do, maybe we are doing alright. Eventually, the odds for the day lynches will improve. I have read those lynch analyses and I see how our odds improve with every town killed. We are down two, but, we are no worse off than if they were lost in night kills. It balances.

It's after midnight, so I'll leave my vote unchanged.

fp skoffin, I'll go read that before turning in.

[Sirius Kase]

... I'm convinced this setup is kinda fucked ...
<snip>
I earlier said I thought there was likely a SK and a mafia team, but now I'm starting to wonder if there are multiple smaller teams or multiple individuals working alone. Either way I am 100% certain there are at least 2 non-town sides that are not 'together', and for the rest of the game I will be treating it as fact.

I was thinking so, but afraid to say it, until others did. Then I wanted to jump to Raz's defense. But, now I know, he deserves it whether or not he did it on purpose. I'm sure he can handle it.

I think he's going for an interesting game for all experience levels. A "Normal" game would be too dull for many here. So, I'd expect third parties, cults, serial killers, and whatever else. These aren't unheard of.

I want to revisit the ratios we discussed on day 1. How many town, how many scum, how many other. The normal ratio appears to be 2 town players to 1 other player. So with 16 starting out on day 0, we should expect 10 or 11 town. That's 5 or 6 other. Is that enough to do what you just suggested?

[BuJaber]

Ragian isn't necessarily lying.

The percentages outlined by the mod are IF YOU FIND YOUR FAVORITE FOOD. If you find any other food it doesn't state what would happen. Probably nothing.

It seems to me he did not find his favorite food. Or he's lying. But it's not like he's definitely lying. Hope that makes sense.

[Sirius Kase]

I meant 5 or 6 other including mafia. And I don't expect him to limit his game only to roles I've mentioned. I've barely scratched the service. I expect him to be more creative than that.

Yeah, Bu, he's left a lot of wiggle room.

[BuJaber]

Mets why did you target ragian? I don't know why you'd want to keep it secret.

Also skoffin. I'm sick of people using some mysterious role or PM related reason to say they know things but hiding what they know. If you're that sure then we should know. Reveal that part at least. The part that makes you 100% sure of multiple factions.

And discussion about players is always good. Discussion about setup, particularly in strange and unpredictable setups is not always good, and my opinion is it's mostly bad. It's distracting, and adds to the confusion, and can be used to intentionall misdirect the town, and/or create a story filled with doubt and baseless assumptions to lynch innocent players.

Mafia is about determining who is town and who is scum. We don't need to know every detail about the setup now. We especially don't need to talk about it when we can't trust anything anybody says because there is no confirmable information out there at all. I look at my own info gained from razorvich and I myself can't say I know anything for sure. There are too many words open to interpretation.

Actually wait there is one thing I know for a fact. We have at least 1 scum. I don't know who for sure but I know 1 scum exists.

[BuJaber]

I meant 5 or 6 other including mafia. And I don't expect him to limit his game only to roles I've mentioned. I've barely scratched the service. I expect him to be more creative than that.

Yeah, Bu, he's left a lot of wiggle room.

Not Ragian. The mod. That wording seems a bit accusatory against ragian.

Personally I think he's telling the truth. That's the subjective part.

The objective part is that he COULD be telling the truth. Nobody can deny that if they actually read every word razor has written

[BuJaber]

(I know there is at least 1 scum because my bonus ability explicitly states the word 'scum')

I don't think I will ever go for my favorite food, not when all scum are still alive so I don't think I will be able to unlock it though.

[Metsfanmax]

Mets why did you target ragian? I don't know why you'd want to keep it secret.

There's no way to explain this without claiming, and I don't desire to claim at this point.

[BuJaber]

Mets why did you target ragian? I don't know why you'd want to keep it secret.

There's no way to explain this without claiming, and I don't desire to claim at this point.

Okay that's fine but you can still say if you town read him or you scumread him and the reasons for the read.

Regardless of what you did, if you are town, you either did it because you want to do something good for a townread, or something bad for a scumread.

Show your work. Let's see if you have good reasoning