Customer @#%$&**^% Service Mafia END Mafia win

[Ragian]

Town usually wins in my experience. It hasn't happened in DBD games yet because whoever is town in every game think they can win by not playing mafia.

This is ridiculous. No one is saying anything, and no one is doing anything. The stalemate plays into scum hands.

Let me understand this correctly, jmf. You want to lynch Pika because he wants to policy lynch someone claiming for no reason when that's a mafia 101 no-no, right?

[jfm10]

Town usually wins in my experience. It hasn't happened in DBD games yet because whoever is town in every game think they can win by not playing mafia.

This is ridiculous. No one is saying anything, and no one is doing anything. The stalemate plays into scum hands.

Let me understand this correctly, jmf. You want to lynch Pika because he wants to policy lynch someone claiming for no reason when that's a mafia 101 no-no, right?

Pika wouldn't care out of three players Razor,Tobi and Dakky who to lynch.Raz being townie and the other two claiming town.I believe Tobi and Dakky are town and pika is scum or atleast very bad for town so he has my vote.I am not trying to draw out the other family members,I am just showing them four players so far that aren't family members.

[Ragian]

Okay. You are voting Pika because you think he's scum for wanting rid of the players that played antitown. Gotcha.

[ZaBeast]

So jfm, basically your name (which I'll remind you is only flavor) and role makes you think tobi and dakky are town, and you think people finding them suspicious based on their play and not their claim have to be scum because of it? We've already had two non-scum (one VT and one 3rd party lyncher) die and neither of them had a name that looked like what tobi and dakky claim to have, so I fear going on a witch hunt for everyone who thinks dakky's and tobi's play wasn't optimal (which is a mild way to put it), would lead to town quickly losing the game.

[Tobikera]

So jfm, basically your name (which I'll remind you is only flavor) and role makes you think tobi and dakky are town, and you think people finding them suspicious based on their play and not their claim have to be scum because of it? We've already had two non-scum (one VT and one 3rd party lyncher) die and neither of them had a name that looked like what tobi and dakky claim to have, so I fear going on a witch hunt for everyone who thinks dakky's and tobi's play wasn't optimal (which is a mild way to put it), would lead to town quickly losing the game.

I fear you are in error, ZB. Razor's role name is exactly in keeping with what I have for a role name, and I can't find what dakky called himself right now, but I think it was very similar as well. jfm seems in harmony/understanding with that. I'm guessing, only that, that all townies have similar names. aage's name is a bit different (The Tired Supervisor), but isn't a normal name like Larry the Supervisor, etc. It will be interesting to see what name the mod gave for a mafia player once we lynch one. The role names might be flavor, but they seem to rhyme.

[jfm10]

Haven't heard any wild hypotheses from Tobi of late. That's worrying.

I fear you are not going to hear any from me this game. I'm still trying to figure out my role. Best I can come up with is a VT in a normal game. I am town, a customer, and, as it implies in opening scene and based on my role description, one of many customer arseholes. Have I said too much? I'm not claiming my role here other than being one of the customers. There doesn't seem to be much to my role. And, I can't see how it fits in with anyone else. This is a new scenario for me.

I know what Tobi means here and I believe up to four players can recognize it.

I have no opinion about the tendency for scumminess of either customers or staff. It would be too obvious if the relationship were 1:1, that is all staff mafia and all customers town. I suppose there could be third party delivery people involved, but I see no evidence or mention of that in the opening scene. The security personnel, who are mentioned, could be third party in that, in real life, they are often contracted labor. Theoretically, there should be some maintenance/janitorial people among the staff (to clean up the glitter?), although those could be contracted as well. That's all I have at this point. Sorry to disappoint.

I am thinking the janitor and the security guard have to be the scum with this mess.

[Ragian]

So what do you want to do, then? How will you find out who the janitor is for instance?

[jfm10]

With razor dead i believe we lost a parent but the family still has 4 or 5 votes.My opinion would be to lynch pika today.

[Pikanchion]

If you're going to go down the route of lynching based on flavour claims at least state blacky365 as your number one target =P

[jfm10]

If you're going to go down the route of lynching based on flavour claims at least state blacky365 as your number one target =P

The only reason i brought up blacky with you and ragian was because chap was poking at him day 1 and i figured i should give him a poke aswell.I am pretty sure that he and dgz are not family with there ideas of family behind murder.

[dgz345]

If you're going to go down the route of lynching based on flavour claims at least state blacky365 as your number one target =P

The only reason i brought up blacky with you and ragian was because chap was poking at him day 1 and i figured i should give him a poke aswell.I am pretty sure that he and dgz are not family with there ideas of family behind murder.

as u said. i have no clues about any family.

[ZaBeast]

I think pika's point is that blacky admitted to being an employee (so far the only one who died was a 3rd party lyncher). Which I believe would be a terrible reason to lynch someone, but not far worse than your whole line of reasoning for wanting pika lynched. If I understand you correctly, you town-read tobi and dakky only because their names is an action. How can you be so sure no one on the family can't be scum anyways? I refuse to think on a game this size there would be 4-5 people able to confirm each other as town just based on the flavor they received. Can we go back to playing mafia?

That being said, I'm actually conflicted about pika. On one hand I agree with Rage that scum likely wouldn't push for the lynch of a claimed VT that much. On the other hand, it's entirely possible he expected the policy lynch to be over fairly quickly and got stuck defending it when it turned out people were ambivalent about it.

[Ragian]

I just don't see Pika sticking to his guns for so long if scum.

[Skoffin]

on mob

Going to impose deadline soon if thinhs keep dragging on. More action from all players. Will start prodsing

[strike wolf]

It kinda feels like this thread has spent the last few days arguing flavor instead of actually analyzing scum tells and by feels like I mean that's totally what has happened. (Says the one who disappeared for I don't even remember how long. Two games was probably a mistake.). JFM feels like misguided town to me here. It's not necessarily whether he was right or wrong on this so much as...the logic isn't that great especially in a game where the mod has already told us that flavor is pretty much just flavor.

Anyways, Raz wagon:

ragoo, chap-early on the wagon. Not much to really pin as scummy based on earliness onto the wagon. Ragian was one of the main driving forces on that wagon. Chap wasn't as active on the Raz wagon himself but did seem vocal while he was still active.
pika-jumped on after me. Around the time the wagon really picked up steam. Didn't say much about Raz before this. Claimed that Ragian's case against him was equal in policy lynchness and said Raz was one of the three that he might vote for along with dakky and Tobi. Was heavy on policy lynching Tobi yesterday despite push back. Voted Tobi again in a way that definitely seemed to be saying "I'm still okay policy lynching him today" at a time that would have been good time to back off of the case.
dakky-Like Tobi, he claimed a VT role out of the blue. Beyond that he's spent almost half of his posts bitching about the game probably dying. Stated that Ragian was making some sense and that he wasn't sure if Raz was scum or not before voting. That's about it. Possibly Aage's lynch target.
aage-dead. third party lyncher.
dgz-Hammered with not much reasoning put in. Just a promise to sell his vote to the highest bidder and a promise that he would vote Raz whe nhe got back from Uni as he later did. Claims it was because time was running out and he wasn't sure he'd be back before deadline/didn't know he was hammering. A lot of time analyzing flavor early day one and teaching how to do his chart.

So out of those. Dakky and DGZ strike me as the most scummy. Both spent a lot of time arguing either flavor or some other silly thing day 1 but Dakky seems like he's trying to be a little more helpful than DGZ has been so DGZ is where I am leaning currently.

FOS DGZ

[Ragian]

I've said that stuff about flavour a million times, but I'm done trying to get through. Who knows, flavour hunters might accidentally catch someone with flawed logic. I mean, penicillin was discovered by accident. My issue with it is this: When you based all your assumptions on flavour, you're not accountable for you actions.

E.g. Jmf wants Pika's blood. Let's say that jmf persuades enough people to lynch Pika and Pika flips town. What do we do then? We can't fault jmf because he thought he was doing the right thing because he felt he caught Pika using the flavour available. Scum would be able to sneak on to sucha wagon going, "Well, he didn't fit the profile of the dead townie and the other claimers, so..."

Essentially, basing our hunt on flavour in a game whose flavour the mod describes thusly...

The flavour text for roles is for story writing purposes.

...will lead to dead ends. We need to do what Strike is trying to do, and what I was trying to do yesterday (with no information readily available and everyone else (except for Pika) sitting on their hands). We need to analyse what people are saying and how people are voting.

Here are my two cents so far:

1 Pikanchion - needs to branch out rather than sticking to his D1 guns, but I still have him in my town column - town
2 dakky21 - I have no clue...SW summed it up pretty well: Dakky has done nothing but complain that no one is doing anything - don't know
---------------------------------------
4 Ragian - hugable and beautiful
5 strike wolf - good start to D2, but I missed him D1 - too early to tell.
6 chapcrap Replaced by JFM - engaged in the game looking town to me, although I'd argue he's going about it the wrong way - leaning town
----------------------------------------
8 blacky365 - has not done much either day except for defend himself against flavour - don't know
9 dgz345 - hasn't done much and then there's SW's thoughts - don't know, but I'll expect him to work his FOS off
10 Metsfanmax replaced by ZaBeast - has engaged in debunking using flavour but not commented too much on play - don't know
11 Tobikera - pulled a Tobi early doors (always eager to state that he's town when he is) which to me indicates town, but he has slipped away a bit. Probably moving

So, obviously, I'll be focusing my efforts on the don't know column: dakky, blacky, dgz, and beast. Right now, however, we need to start playing mafia rather than just talking flavour.

@SW, why only a FOS? Why not a vote?

[strike wolf]

In part, because I don't feel pressure to make it a vote yet. DGZ responded fairly reasonably to my first accusation. I would like to give him the opportunity to do the same with a fuller accusation before deciding if he has earned the vote.

Also on a lesser note, I am still wary on how that wagon blew up yesterday.

[Ragian]

Eh...blew up? To be honest, I wasn't wavering as I never saw Raz give any reason not to vote for him when he was called upon.

[Pikanchion]

E.g. Jmf wants Pika's blood. Let's say that jmf persuades enough people to lynch Pika and Pika flips town. What do we do then? We can't fault jmf because he thought he was doing the right thing because he felt he caught Pika using the flavour available. Scum would be able to sneak on to sucha wagon going, "Well, he didn't fit the profile of the dead townie and the other claimers, so..."

Really, can you not find fault there? jfm10's case effectively amounts to "Pikanchion is not a VT because flavour reasons", it's not even "Pikanchion is not Town-aligned because flavour reasons", regardless of how accurate such assumptions may or may not be.

[Tobikera]

First, concerning flavor, I do not disagree with the comments above. However, mod's, when setting up a game usually need some order to get everything right. So, a mod isn't going to call one townie George Blast and another townie "Likes to feel the packages". So, I look for some consistency in the way the mod names players. aage's name (The Tired Supervisor) was different from my name (which is more of an action) and Razor's name (Opening up all the packages). I suspect the scum's names are a bit different as well. Consider it a mod tell. We'll know more if this is a correct use of flavor as more folks are lynched or killed.

Second, here is the list of those voting for Razor:

ragoo, chap, pika, dakky, aage, dgz

Based on my minimal experience compared to some of y'all, there should be at least two scum on that list, all things being equal. aage was not scum, but rather third party. So, we might reasonably expect 2 of the remaing 5 are scum out of self interest. Doesn't mean it's true, just reasonable. Of course, substitute jfm for chap.

[Ragian]

Any idea who from that list is scum? I mean, that would be really helpful.

[dakky21]

First, concerning flavor, I do not disagree with the comments above. However, mod's, when setting up a game usually need some order to get everything right. So, a mod isn't going to call one townie George Blast and another townie "Likes to feel the packages". So, I look for some consistency in the way the mod names players. aage's name (The Tired Supervisor) was different from my name (which is more of an action) and Razor's name (Opening up all the packages).

While I agree that flavor is not important, I also agree mod tells are important. Tobikera never claimed (if we don't count VT), he said that his role is like "Singing Hawk While Soaring" but while it is flavor and while it is action instead of "The Tired Supervisor", I don't see why not claim the full role name?

[dakky21]

I mean why did he mention aage's name and Razor's name but put his name "as an action" when we should know by now it is all flavor and the name is not important?

[jfm10]

I mean why did he mention aage's name and Razor's name but put his name "as an action" when we should know by now it is all flavor and the name is not important?

Because his name is the action just as my name is.

[Tobikera]

I mean why did he mention aage's name and Razor's name but put his name "as an action" when we should know by now it is all flavor and the name is not important?

Because his name is the action just as my name is.

Correcto, jfm. I don't see that my name matters at this point. I am a townie called:

Asking for where a product is

(it seems I can't follow directions either).