Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

[WILLIAMS5232]

i didn't read all the original post because it's quite a lot. i will chime in and say, late July 2018 i drove through Canada into Alaska, about a day or so before i got to Whitehorse, i was driving along a pretty long lake, and on the other side of it, i saw a fire burning. my estimate would say it was less than a hundred acres, could have been a thousand tho' as it was far away and it's hard to judge from a distance. but i am a surveryor if that helps you feel better about my guestimate. about 30 miles or so before i saw it, i just happen to see a sign that stated "please report wildfires". obviously canada is very remote and after i convinced myself i should really call it in, i had no service. i drove for quite a while (several hours before having service) and then lost the inclination to do so. assuming surely someone else had by then. after spending about 3-4 weeks up north i started back to the 48, and damn if all of Canada wasn't on fire. i drove like 5 days in a haze thicker in some areas, thinner in others, but it was always hazy, it didn't clear til i got to the pacific a little north of vancouver. i always felt bad about that, even though i''m pretty certain the fire i saw way up in the yukon had little to do with the one that torched Alberta and BC, it made me rethink my efforts in reporting the next fire i may see.

i grew up and live in Desoto National forest in south mississippi, control burns have taken place since i was a kid. i know longleaf pine has adapted to fire. while slash and lobblolly isn't as tolerant. naturally, they grew in the branches, while the longleaf would cover the ridges where the fire would be the worst.

show: lobblolly

show: longleaf

it's not hard to imagine in the image which one has a better chance to survive fire. anyway, it's plain to see that fire has always been apart of nature. as the OP did acually address. Desoto forest and lets say yosemite are vastly different and i don't know much about sequoias and other species that exist there, other than seeing them in person briefly. i know they are impressive. and where i live in the pine belt was logged to oblivion in the 1800's to a point where there is no native growth that remains. aside from some oaks, magnolia and cypress that are pretty damn impressive. the biggest pine i've seen with my own two eyes i'd say 2 people could easily wrap their arms around. i've seen some old local pictures that would rival the sequoia

show: historic photo mississippi

i'm not a tree hugger by any means, but it's a shame all those trees were cut. now they don't get much more than about 30" or less before theyre cut. and before you say "them damn conservatives" your precious democrats cut them too.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://e360.yale.edu/features/wood_pellets_green_energy_or_new_source_of_co2_emissions&ved=2ahUKEwirztaOlKyOAxWPSzABHVfILsoQFnoECBoQAw&usg=AOvVaw07kf8n6WokFoMes9Yg-zGn

anyway, about the fires, i dont think forest management is really going to help too much to be honest. we burn in mississippi about every 3=5 years or so on rotation. i don't think you can do that out west. i do agree there is probably more fires now than there was 100 years ago. i doubt there are that many hardcore denialists about things concerning the fact that we need to take better care of the enviroment. i think the biggest problem is the Al Gore worshiper type that think he(Al Gore) has planet earth in his best interest and go all bloodshot eyed and scream at you with a bullhorn for using a plastic straw. you're not going to strip the world of plastics and electricity until you find a better alternative. and that probably wont happen because no body likes being screamed at through a bullhorn. especially when it's made of plastic and uses electricity. everyone wants the light on when they hit the switch, and they cry like a baby if it's over 72 in the house with like 15 can lights in the kitchen burning so they can see good enough to put their poptart in the microwave.

[HitRed]

Is glass better than plastic?

[WILLIAMS5232]

Is glass better than plastic?

i think so, but i mean, i also think a warm shower is worse than bathing in a creek. or drinking water from a well only would reduce billions of tons of trash and reduce energy costs by thousands if not millions of percent. a lumberjack from 1800 had less of a carbon footprint than anyone on this site no matter how many trees he choppped down.

[jusplay4fun]

Upon our return to the USA, from Ireland and Scotland, my wife and I got into a discussion how wasteful we Americans are with packaging and so much more. We had 2 of our grandchildren and our daughter visit with us yesterday and that prompted the discussion. We bought two Happy Meals from McDonald's for the grandchildren and the amount of packaging to be disposed was rather large. Much of it was cardboard, better than plastic, but still lots for the local landfill.

One of my favorite fast food places to enjoy is Chick-fil-A. When I eat IN and get a salad instead of fries, there is LOTS of plastic packaging to dispose, including each piece of plasticware (or "silverware" or flatware) having its own plastic the bag (done for sanitary reasons, especially post-COVID). I should complain (to the local manager and to the corporate heads) that the company should make a greater effort to recycle, especially the TOPS of the salad that is PETE or PET (or polyethylene terephthalate) and a good one to recycle. The bottom is also the same, but it has all the dressing and food bits on there and would require significant cleaning to recycle.

From what I know and read, one of the best plastics to recycle and RE-USE is PETE. As stated in my post on July 6 in this same thread, my backpack from my Irish Tour Company was made from recycled material and is VERY likely PETE, and most often from one time used bottles for drinking water. I have more than one writing pens made from recycled PETE, and is called B2P, Bottle to Pen. For a while they were a good seller for the pen company. To this day, I have a few of the barrels and I buy refills, partly for environmental reasons and also to save a few cents. It is also my way to "Virtue Signal" since I cannot afford a Tesla vehicle.

I think the EU, including Ireland, has made a good effort to recycle and also to reduce one time use plastics. I mentioned already the 2 Euro fee at one location to purchase a one time use cup for a hot beverage. I had read several years ago that Germany has managed to "Close the Loop" in a signficant way by REQUIRING many plastic materials to use some minimum amount of recycled plastics. I use a brand of shampoos and conditioners that use recycled materials for the containers. (The products are VERY good and the container is only a SMALL reason for my use of them.)

Nearly everywhere I ate in Europe on this trip, they provided real flatware and we used glasses and ceramic (i.e., re-usable) plates and cups. In America, we use a HUGE amount of plastics ONE time only. We are profligate about such things.

Last notes, for now, on this point. I recycle at my small school. I get the cardboard, waste paper, a bit of clean plastics (a few bottles from my classroom) and a bit of aluminum and drive all that about 2x a month to a recycle dumpster in my own vehicle. The recycle dumpster is only about one mile away. About the only item I will reach into the trash to recyle is an aluminum can; that is worth the effort and my time to rinse out the can. I remind my students to leave their emptied aluminum cans for me to recycle. Also,the man who is our food manager for lunches recycles the cardboard boxes, mainly used to transport the food from local establishments.

Yes, I COULD recycle in the school cafeteria, but that would require LOTS of time and labor, likely by ONLY me. When I first got there, a really good student told me that she stopped doing that when she became the ONLY person to work and do all that is needed to recycle as a student initiative. Having seen what is in the recycled dumpsters in our community, I know what I mess that would be, especially from a cafeteria. One 4th grade classroom also recycled their paper waste, but I was always removing used paper towels and even worse, used tissues. To me that is worse than people who attempt to recycle used Pizza boxes. I even once posted a sign to discourage the Band kids from dumping those into the recycle dumpster (at my public high school) as those are not to be recycled, likely due to the vermin such things attract.

BTW: in addition to the recycle dumpsters, we still have curbside recycling where I live; some communities have stopped due to their expense. Before curbside pick-up, I did drive our home recycled things to our dumpsters to recycle.

I do what I can, within a narrow scope, to be environmentally responsible. I also encourage my students to be good stewards of the earth, from a Biblical perspective, since I now teach at a small private Christian School.

[jusplay4fun]

Is glass better than plastic?

i think so, but i mean, i also think a warm shower is worse than bathing in a creek. or drinking water from a well only would reduce billions of tons of trash and reduce energy costs by thousands if not millions of percent. a lumberjack from 1800 had less of a carbon footprint than anyone on this site no matter how many trees he choppped down.

Yes, we all could do better to reduce our "carbon footprint." We should all do what we can, within reason. We cannot all live as the Amish do, right?

As I said in my previous post, I do try to educate my students about good environmental stewardship. I was thinking after posting that I can "virtue signal" by buying each of my students a B2P pen this upcoming August and also one set of refills to also give away, as a way to make them aware of such stewardship.

BTW: I recall a story about some young environmental activists screaming and protesting for an environmental cause. But the irony was that they drove home in a vehicle with A/C to return to a house USING lots of A/C. There are complaints about many environmental activists JETTING to places all over the globe for pleasure and celebrities (who virtue signal for the environment) flying in private planes. Greta Thunberg took a boat to address the 2019 UN Climate Action Summit; she deserves some credit for that action. I did not want to take a boat to and from Europe for my vacation trip.

I have gotten into discussions in the past few weeks with several people about "first world complaints" such as whining about no electrical outlets in the bathrooms in our hotel rooms in Ireland and Scotland.

[WILLIAMS5232]

Yeah, packaging is a huge problem I think, but the root is overconsumption. I ordered To-go last night and got a loaded baked potato. They put the butter, bacon bits, cheese, onion, and sour cream in their own little solo cup with lid. I guess I understand why, but shit. I'm not a person that would care if my bacon bits got mixed with my onion and cheese. It's going to mix anyway.

Landfills are going to be such an issue one day, maybe 50 years, maybe 500. Possibly in 10, I don't know. As a kid, I always envisioned sending trash to space, and nudging it to the sun. I guess idiocracy movie is more truth than fantasy.

I personally can't imagine recycling having an impact to be honest. I think of it like actually adding to the problem. Think of all the facilities and products created to process recyclables. And then does having 10,000 recycled forks really stop them from producing 10,000 new plastic forks? I don't know, just seems like a scam to me. It's so much easier to have one metal fork and clean it, but our culture is at a point where that's not an option.

I know what you're talking about with the chic fil a salad. You get a big bulky plastic carton, 2 plastic pouches with dressing, a plastic pouch with granola. A plastic pouch with mixed nuts, a plastic knife wrapped in a plastic protective bag, a plastic fork in a protective plastic bag, 20 napkins, a big ass plastic bag to hold all the plastic. And let's say one chic fil a sells 100 salads per day. And there are 5000 chic filas..... amazing. Of course I'm just throwing numbers out there. That alone is the daily chic fil a salad only contribution to the landfill. I wouldn't expect much percent of that actually closes the full recycle loop. I remember Panerai bread used to use a paper box, I think if a landfill was filled with only paper products, it would eventually return to earth. But even Panerai bread caved to using plastic salad cartons.

I don't know, it's fun to talk about, but I think we're in a like a death spiral. Maybe we can reduce the throttle a bit. But the course is set. I'm not saying that humans are done for, I just mean that whatever is going to happen is destined to at this point. Too many people. And we're too comfortable, or too greedy, or too lazy to do anything about it.

When I was in high school I didn't think twice about flinging my coke bottle out the window. I look back and I can't believe I ever had the mindset that it was OK to do that. And now I see grown ass adults doing it. Or the ole "leave the mcdonald bag outside the car door at the Walmart parking lot while no one is looking and drive off" trick.

[jusplay4fun]

Yeah, packaging is a huge problem I think, but the root is overconsumption. I ordered To-go last night and got a loaded baked potato. They put the butter, bacon bits, cheese, onion, and sour cream in their own little solo cup with lid. I guess I understand why, but shit. I'm not a person that would care if my bacon bits got mixed with my onion and cheese. It's going to mix anyway.

You amplify my point: TOO much packaging for FOOD to be EATEN at that location. They package ALMOST as if all food is to be delivered or eaten AWAY and not in their dining room. TOO much packaging and wasted plastic, imo.

Landfills are going to be such an issue one day, maybe 50 years, maybe 500. Possibly in 10, I don't know. As a kid, I always envisioned sending trash to space, and nudging it to the sun. I guess idiocracy movie is more truth than fantasy.

This is simply too expensive; I have had students suggest that often when I discuss the problem of too much trash.

I personally can't imagine recycling having an impact to be honest. I think of it like actually adding to the problem. Think of all the facilities and products created to process recyclables. And then does having 10,000 recycled forks really stop them from producing 10,000 new plastic forks? I don't know, just seems like a scam to me. It's so much easier to have one metal fork and clean it, but our culture is at a point where that's not an option.

Exactly, William; use a metal fork and other flatware and WASH IT. We are too much in a disposable mindset for a SIMPLE meal in this country. When I went to a wing place (BW2) some 15 years ago, I felt insulted being given all disposable dinner ware. Now it is the norm in so many eating places in the USA.

I know what you're talking about with the chic fil a salad. You get a big bulky plastic carton, 2 plastic pouches with dressing, a plastic pouch with granola. A plastic pouch with mixed nuts, a plastic knife wrapped in a plastic protective bag, a plastic fork in a protective plastic bag, 20 napkins, a big ass plastic bag to hold all the plastic. And let's say one chic fil a sells 100 salads per day. And there are 5000 chic filas..... amazing. Of course I'm just throwing numbers out there. That alone is the daily chic fil a salad only contribution to the landfill. I wouldn't expect much percent of that actually closes the full recycle loop. I remember Panerai bread used to use a paper box, I think if a landfill was filled with only paper products, it would eventually return to earth. But even Panerai bread caved to using plastic salad cartons.

I totally agree.

I don't know, it's fun to talk about, but I think we're in a like a death spiral. Maybe we can reduce the throttle a bit. But the course is set. I'm not saying that humans are done for, I just mean that whatever is going to happen is destined to at this point. Too many people. And we're too comfortable, or too greedy, or too lazy to do anything about it.

I am not that pessimistic. We have turned around attitudes about litter and pollution over the years with PSA on TV and in the media. I am NOT sure this is NOW done today online, too, however.

When I was in high school I didn't think twice about flinging my coke bottle out the window. I look back and I can't believe I ever had the mindset that it was OK to do that. And now I see grown ass adults doing it. Or the ole "leave the mcdonald bag outside the car door at the Walmart parking lot while no one is looking and drive off" trick.

Shows that ALL of us CAN Change for the better, William. GOOD for you...!

I was driving home from the shopping mall some 2 years ago and was rather flabbergasted watching as those in the car in front of me fling trash every minute or so out their car window from an eating place. I wanted to call the police on these litter bugs, but I figured that they had REAL problems (Crime, such as robbery and speeders) to deal with instead.