Europe Revamp

[wcaclimbing]

Hi guys.
I am revamping the Europe map, mostly making small changes to it.

Here are the maps as they are now:




First, i would like everyone to post about things in the map that need to be changed, so i can get a complete list of things to do.


My list so far (to be updated):
-Fix the Albania-Italy Border.
-Replace Croatia with Yugoslavia. (maybe. have to get permission for this one)
-change mountains.
-possibly new army shadows.
-A few XML tweaks.
-Change the arrow between Moldova and Romania.
-Clean up borders where Continents touch the water.
-[post more ideas so i can add to this list]


Please post any other changes that need to be made so i can have a complete list of everything I need to do before i start working.

[pepperonibread]

This is official? It's hard to believe that Andy and KEYOGI approved this. Anyway, if it is, then you probably need the PSD file if you want to do minor changes. Or do you already have that?

[wcaclimbing]

This is official? It's hard to believe that Andy and KEYOGI approved this. Anyway, if it is, then you probably need the PSD file if you want to do minor changes. Or do you already have that?

No, i dont have that.
If i cant get it, i could do the changes by hand. it wouldnt be too hard.

[wcaclimbing]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24365
In that thread about the europe map, Keyogi said:

The connection problem has been well known for some time. The map is in need of a revamp, but nobody has stepped forward to volunteer. It would also take a revamp to possibly solve the Croatia/Yugoslavia debate, but that would be up to the original cartographer if it could be changed or not.

Europe is fine for the most part. It needs some new army shadows, XML tweaks and new mountains. If anybody wants to attempt a revamp or even just a touch up, announce it in the Revamps thread.

So i announced the revamp in that thread and then started my own thread for the map here.


Is there anything else that needs to change thats not on my list?

[Bad Speler]

Well, if this is going to be touched up a bit, there are a few annoying white dots in the west continent, where the land touches the sea.

[nagerous]

I like many others am of the opinion I'm afraid that Europe should be left alone and kept as it is. Its already a popular map in its current state. Concentrate on revamping something crap like crossword

[wcaclimbing]

I like many others am of the opinion I'm afraid that Europe should be left alone and kept as it is. Its already a popular map in its current state. Concentrate on revamping something crap like crossword

We are basically leaving the map the same. Just doing small touch-ups and border fixes. It will look the same, just a bit cleaner after its done. I wont do anything drastic.

[snufkin]

Europe is fine for the most part.

I disagree. It´s horrible. The gameplay is ok but it´s not Europe. It´s an uneducated chaos of different timelines and lazy errors.

Several of the errors have no effect on the gameplay so that excuse/argument is not fully valid:

The border between Denmark and Sweden.

The name of the Benelux area. When several countries are merged into one for gameplay reasons then it should be named after the largest country. That would be Holland or the Netherlands in this case - not Belgium.

old Czechoslovakia is named Slovakia.. Why?
Czechia is larger both by area and population (almost twice as many citizens).

same with the former Yugoslavia - Serbia is larger than Croatia both in area and population (more than twice as many citizens)

same with Estonia/Latvia.. Latvia is considerably larger than Estonia both in area and population.

The former British mandate of Palestine.. I guess it´s not so bad - even if Jordan covers a considerably larger area, Israel did have roughly the same population as Jordan during the second half of the 20th century and Israel has a larger pop and certainly is more powerful today..

I could give you tenfold as many errors on this map but those are too many to mention and would involve tampering with gameplay.

..and that is not allowed with revamps, so it´s a catch 22..

I support a revamp anyway. Polish the turd - it can´t get much worse.

[cairnswk]

Its a very dark map isn't it?

[wcaclimbing]

@snufkin
um.... ok?

Well, anyways, country name changes arent allowed without consent of the original map maker.

1. whats wrong with the denmark/sweden border?
2. We arent fixing gameplay. We are only fixing visuals in this Revamp, unless I can contact the original cartographer.

@cairnswk
Yes, it is a very dark map, but i wont be changing that. Personally, i dont like how dark it is, but changing it would require completely re-doing the map. And also, there are many people that like it as dark as it is now. so changing that is a NO.

[snufkin]

@snufkin


1. whats wrong with the denmark/sweden border?

Look at a real map..
the original cartographer obviously didn´t do that. Doesn´t seem to have done any research either.

[wcaclimbing]

@snufkin


1. whats wrong with the denmark/sweden border?

Look at a map..
the original cartographer obviously didn´t do that. Doesn´t seem to have done any research either.

The original person that made THIS map put that border in. Unless we get permission from him, we arent allowed to change any gameplay!

[cairnswk]

@cairnswk
Yes, it is a very dark map ... so changing that is a NO.

[snufkin]

The original person that made THIS map put that border in. Unless we get permission from him, we arent allowed to change any gameplay!

read my post again.. it wont affect gameplay - it´s only cosmetic.

I only listed the errors that wont change playability - other errors would be a huuuge list..

[AndyDufresne]

I haven't received word from Keyogi, and he hasn't endorsed this thread, like he usually does, so for now, until it's cleared up, I'm going to lock the thread.


--Andy

[KEYOGI]

Definately a misunderstanding here. Me suggesting that anyone interesting in revamping the Europe map should announce their intentions in the revamp thread is just a way to volunteer. This needs to be run by the original cartorgrapher to seek permission first. I'll leave this thread open for another day and then delete it, it has no place here at the moment.

In response to snufkin, there are a number of geographical/political issues with this map, just like there is with the Middle East. The map got through the foundry the first time in this state for a reason. If the revamp is approved and the original cartographer doesn't want any name changes that will be the end of it, no discussion. People are always entitled to make some variation of the Europe map themselves, making it as realistic and accurate as they like.