New Jedi Order Mafia MOZ & VONG WIN

[nagerous]

umm moz, you said before you got the info about Hans before IC's role claim. lemme see if I can find that quote....

Yes I got the info on Han Solo at the beginning on the day. I was not saying that Mandy sent me info after he role claimed I'm saying that Mandy said in general that it was not a good idea to role claim. And I see my role as one of those reasons. You never know what information has been given out.

Its an odd roleclaim you've made and I'm guessing its likely to be genuine, of course theres a great deal of coincidence involved. I'm just wondering how reliable the information you receive can be. Mandy is so against role claims he may have put these kinda barriers and confusions in just to screw over those who try and role claim.

[wicked]

Oh I knew that was the quote you were referring to, I just didn't interpret it the same. I took that to mean names are powerful info to have, as moz claims to have been given a name.

Now I'm even more suspicious of freezie wanting me to quote my PM.

[wicked]

Sure. You know how it is usualy not a good thing for a townie to role-claim because they are more likely to get killed? Well, in this game it is 2 times more likely to get you killed. Also, because some people know SW lore better then others, I have made role-claiming completely useless as well as dangerous. (BTW, just because you don't see how role claiming can hurt you, doesn't mean that it won't affect you when your role changes or you get a mission. )

So that doesn't seem to go along with your "natural causes" remark in the rules, but whatever.

[Anarkistsdream]

Tres, I have hurled abuse at nobody... Except you. And that's because you are playing like a fool-hardy noob.

The fact that you won't pay attention to ANYTHING else around you and are still attacking me shows that you are looking for something here- either you are a lyncher or you are Mafia- my guess is on the latter.

Wicked and I cleared everything up, and I am pretty confident that we both trust each other. Why you can't get over that and actually try to help the Jedi is beyond me.

You look scummier with every post.

[Koesen]

I don't suspect you much Koesen, its just kinda funny you've been scum in every game I've played with you (even the one I modded!) I'm keeping my eye on you just incase.

You'll have to agree though that whenever you join my side, the result is Greatness

I did get a few scum roles in a row, and I was wondering how long it would be before people started assuming I'd be scum on principle. I guess we're there, hehe. Oh well, neither of us is in danger now, so I guess there will be time to clear the air between us

Especially since it looks like this day will go on forever.

[Selin]

Ok, now I have read all the rest of posts of the last two days. I post here all my notes through this reading in the chronological order:

- AK claimed he is jedi, he had a one-shot ability to search someone and found a scum. Although the probability is not so high (maybe 20-30%) to find a scum in a single shot (mandy wrote he assigned roles randomly), it is still possible. In this case his declaration and vote makes sense because he won't be able to use his ability again.

- wicked roleclaimed (as the first one) to be jedi knight with two options that was correct.

- mandy wrote 'you may quote everything' which makes me nervous,
because it is against the general principles of mafia games and i don't want to doubt his warning that 'we will be doing a MASSIVE favour to mafia' by doing so.

- In contradiction to some of the comments of others on this issue, i am not the opinion that one of wicked or AC must be necessarily scum, if the other one turns out to be townie.

- the counter vote of wicked on AC does not make sense to me. Let's think AC is scum. What should be his motive behind declaring wicked to be scum (and this already during day 1)? There was already a stupid discussion between wicked and AD and they were already in the middle of attention of most players. My conclusion > AC tells the truth from his point of view. Of course he may be insane or something else, not knowing that his findings are not accurate.

- post of exile1 on page 26: I don't see that mandy wrote somewhere that he will provide fake name claims !! On the other side that make sense because mandy wrote he won't care about quoters. But Exile wrote he remembered those fake name claims from initial hype of mandy which is not true. Probably he remembers his fake name from his role post.

- just read aimless' post on page 28, he made a very detailed analysis there.

- now read AC's post on page 37, which verified my thoughts on exile1. he just skipped exile's post on page 26. but he made a good analysis of 2 bandwagons, where exile1 is the most suspicious one.

- grrr... read moz dropping the hammer for AC. i wished i could posted yesterday. moz was smarter in previous games, was that vote intentionally done?

- and AC, you made a good move if you are a townie, but a very stupid one as a cop, if you are really a cop! that cop claim and the wrong vote count, that was probably miscounted intentionally by you (in the role of mandy), made me suspicious about you for the first time really. I simply can't believe that you would like to play such a dangerous game as a cop.

- now I read moz's post on page 44 about han solo. that may explain his vote. if AC is really a cult leader, he may want to lynch him before he starts recruiting and makes this complex mafia game more complexer.

FINAL CONCLUSIONS: after reading last 2 day's posts

I believe that wicked is jedi knight as she role claimed.

I'm almost sure that Exile is scum. He already made two very suspicious posts (page 26 and 27) and than became silent. I would have voted him, if i hadn't read moz's posts. If we lynch exile today, we will probably have 1 scum less and a cult having at least 2 members (AC and the one he will recruit), if it started with AC only. I think lynching exile tomorrow won't hurt us much as he is not the only mafia for sure. So my vote for today goes to AC. Depending on the result of AC's lynch (his role), moz may be added to my vote list, if it turns out wrong what he explained us.

Vote: AC

On day 2, I will vote Exile1.

.

[ga7]

Argh so much to thing about. I'll try to reread again but I wanted to react on Nag's posts. I wasn't sure I understood your first post, now I'm sure I didn't understand it at all, and your post from today is even more obscure to me Care to clarify?
About Moz's claim, well I'd tend to think that if he was scum after his failed hammer he would stay submarining. I don't think he would hammer then claim impulsively like that at least... I have to check again for the timing that seems a little too good.

[nagerous]

You sounded like you understood my post so I got suspicious. If you don't understand it then it doesn't concern you for now

[MountainLion]

As I've said before Han Solo being a cop doesn't make sense, but then again Han Solo being a cult leader doesn't make sense either. AK is the most questionable player right now. Moz said that he was told that Han Solo is for neither side, that he is on his own side. That does make sense. Bottom line is whether he's a cult leader or not, a third party always confuses things and I don't like confusion. I would vote AK right now, but I'd like to know how many votes he has on him.

Vote count please?

[MountainLion]

AK is at 9 votes, so I will vote AK_Iceman

[MountainLion]

BTW some of you question Moz, but I think his reasons for roleclaiming and voting AK are understandable...especially after this explaination:

Well neutrino like I have said I got information on a person that could spread across the town if he was allowed to live so I thought it best to get rid of him as quickly as possible.

If you'll look at my posts I was wary of going ahead and lynching AK until he revealed that he was Han Solo then I was in such a hurry to get rid of him that I forgot to unvote.

I was hoping to get rid of him without having to role claim but with him claiming cop I felt he was going to be misleading the town and that it was in the towns best interest to get rid of him. Thus I came out with what I have.

[The1exile]

But, we now have 2 pretty good bandwagons to compare and figure out who is most likely to be mafia. The1exile deserves an honorable mention for this post....

Don't lynch me if I'm wrong (because it's late and i'm tired) but couldn't the jedi who's doing the duel vouch for wicked being a jedi, since they can;t be lynched and might not be alive nyway?

It seems to be that would be the best way of verifying wicked's identity, though I don't have a reason to distrust AK really (a mislynch on day 1 will hardly kill us even if it is a powerful jedi).

He clearly isn't a part of the Jedi group, as he didn't know whether the Jedi could communicate or if they knew each other.

Players that were on both the wicked and AK bandwagon are:
nagerous, ga7, jnd94, The1exile, freezie, Fircoal, and kwanton.

The1exile stands out yet again as being on both bandwagons... Strike 2?

Anyway, I'm tired from writing this twice, so I'll finish it as I think of more.
Unvote - wicked
Wicked's role claim and PM seem legit, and I believe that she's a Jedi.

Vote - The1exile
You're switching bandwagons left and right, posting that you have no idea what the Jedi can do, and basically acting scummy while hiding behind the action.

Switching bandwagons? You bullshitted your way through a claim which seemed pretty believable, so I followed that. Given no reason to unvote (I didn't/don't really trust wickeds roleclaim) I waited longer than the others for you to explain yourself, which you then took absolutely ages to do, thus attracting me to follow the logic that you were wrong.

Yes, I'm not part of a jedi group, good deduction genius. I wouldn't be surprised if the jedi were power roles such as doc, cop and vig, while bounty hunters were serial killers/lynchers, and your standard trooper/citizen/other are townies. But if you want to investigate me tonight, feel free. Since you've just managed to endanger possibly the most powerful jedi *and* put yourself, the cop, in danger, I wouldn't have too much faith in your judgement anyway.

In case I need to, unvote.

[MountainLion]

I didn't believe the Iceman roleclaim because I thought it was faked but with moz's post I'm actually more confused as I can't quite fathom the concept of someone like Han Solo not being pro-town and it appears Iceman's claim of Han Solo is genuine. unvote At any case I don't think we should lynch moz and I wouldn't reccomend he gives a name claim, from what Mandy said.

nagerous, how familiar are you with star wars? I would say overall that Han Solo was on the good side, but his deep down character is selfish. Remember at the end of the first star wars movie when Luke and the others were headed for the deathstar to take it out Han was leaving with his money. Then at the last moment Han helped Luke by shooting Vader off of his back.

Han is a selfish good guy. I could understand Mandy making him either a good guy or on his own side. Also I don't know if this is set at a time earlier than the first star wars, in which case Han would not really be a good guy yet.

[The1exile]

- post of exile1 on page 26: I don't see that mandy wrote somewhere that he will provide fake name claims !! On the other side that make sense because mandy wrote he won't care about quoters. But Exile wrote he remembered those fake name claims from initial hype of mandy which is not true. Probably he remembers his fake name from his role post.

Nope. If I was scum, why would I draw attention to the fact I had a fake claim ready? That seems daft to me. If I really need to, I'll try a forum search to find where mandy said the scum would have fake claims, but it's also entirely possible that he mentioned it when requesting my help for setting up the game, in which case the message has already been pushed out of my ever chockablock inbox.

[nagerous]

Cheers for the heads up MountainLion. I know very little about star wars. I haven't seen any of the movies in about 5 years approximately. I just think when I hear the name Han Solo he must be a good guy as opposed to someone saying Darth Vader lol but I obviously know jack. I get Han Solo confused with Obi-wan Kenobi I think. If anyone has any american civil war questions feel free to ask me but not on star wars.

[Skittles!]

Too much reading, but it's worthwhile.

unvote. just to make sure i have a vote up my sleeve when i need one.

[nagerous]

As far as I'm aware this is set after the star wars movie series as it mentions something about chewbacca dying.

[Selin]

Correcting my vote in my last vote (i wrote: vote AC instead of AK),

Vote: AK_iceman

.

[Selin]

- post of exile1 on page 26: I don't see that mandy wrote somewhere that he will provide fake name claims !! On the other side that make sense because mandy wrote he won't care about quoters. But Exile wrote he remembered those fake name claims from initial hype of mandy which is not true. Probably he remembers his fake name from his role post.

Nope. If I was scum, why would I draw attention to the fact I had a fake claim ready? That seems daft to me. If I really need to, I'll try a forum search to find where mandy said the scum would have fake claims, but it's also entirely possible that he mentioned it when requesting my help for setting up the game, in which case the message has already been pushed out of my ever chockablock inbox.

I can't know what you talked with mandy in private. What I know is that I couldn't find anything about fake claims on our forum.

.

[MountainLion]

I think I forgot to unvote

vote AK_iceman

[AK_iceman]

Well I'm probably pinging pretty high on everyone's sumdar right about now but let me try to explain myself here.

Each day sequence I am given insight into what a characters motives are. I am not a fully fledged Jedi but as I am in touch with the force I get insite into the near future. So for my clue today I was told that Han Solo was not the hero that he has been portrayed as and that he was playing both sides in order to recruit for his own side.
Of course this information didn't do me a lot of good since I had no way of knowing who Han Solo was in this game. But then AK claimed Han Solo and I knew I could get rid of what I think is the head of a third group of indepentants.

Anyways with all that said I am going to do what I should have done before
unvote pancake and vote AK

That's pretty far fetched moz. For one thing, my role says nothing about recruiting anybody. And also my role color and win condition are the same as wickeds. I'm definately pro-town, not independent. It's kind of funny how you got info on 1 of the 2 players who shared their role today, no?

Well as I said my insights are not completely clear but from what I was told I got impression that he was cult leader thus the reason I thought it good to get rid of him before he had a chance to recruit anyone.

Yeah, about as clear as muddy water. You got the wrong impression, big time. However, you just moved up a couple notches on my scumdar.

Yes, I'm not part of a jedi group, good deduction genius. I wouldn't be surprised if the jedi were power roles such as doc, cop and vig, while bounty hunters were serial killers/lynchers, and your standard trooper/citizen/other are townies. But if you want to investigate me tonight, feel free. Since you've just managed to endanger possibly the most powerful jedi *and* put yourself, the cop, in danger, I wouldn't have too much faith in your judgement anyway.

In case I need to, unvote.

Ok, we've discussed the Jedi roles a little bit, and the regular townie role would be a no-brainer, but where did you come up with bounty hunters=serial killers and lynchers? I'm guessing you got one of those roles? Yeah... I'll keep my vote on you for now.

[firth4eva]

after reading up i have deduced...

that AK could have said he was han solo a lot earlier but didnt. not sure why just saying his name would make a difference

then moz comes in and says that he got a message saying solo was scum. why would he do this if ak was really just a cop?

so...

my vote stays

[mandalorian2298]

ANOUNCEMENT

Willis is replaced by Kalishnikov.

[AK_iceman]

after reading up i have deduced...

that AK could have said he was han solo a lot earlier but didnt. not sure why just saying his name would make a difference

then moz comes in and says that he got a message saying solo was scum. why would he do this if ak was really just a cop?

so...

my vote stays

What with Mandys warning at the beginning of the game, and moz's role claim, it's kind of hard to believe that you don't see how revealing your name makes a difference. I only revealed my name because I was at Lynch -1 and I was asked for something solid to prove my innocence. Instead of giving out my entire role, I just gave up my name.

And moz didn't say I was scum, he thinks I'm a cult leader or something. Perhaps Mandy is misleading him and giving him false info, maybe he just intrepeted it wrong, or maybe he's lying.

[got tonkaed]

some random star wars banter....

in NJO Han Solo although he departs on some of his own business, really never strays all that far from the good side so to speak. He also works with a variety of independents to try and work for the New Republic against the Vong. Although he is stricken by a personal crisis and has family issues, he never sides with the Vong...so Han Solo should necesairly be pro town.

Its quite possible that Moz is an information broker, which was fairly common in the Star Wars Universe. I know who he probably could be name wise....but that is only one possiblity. The person im thinking of is fairly independent, but probably would not side with the Vong unless there was an enormous incentive.

However it is important to know that there might be a higher necesity to lynch some of the non-jedi affilates in this game. Frequently in NJO non-jedis stood in opposition to the Jedis and many of them tried to kidnap jedis so i actually am in favor of voting those who are not that aware of what jedi are doing, though in some cases this could be an error because there are some non jedis who are pro new republic.

As of now i will unvote, vote exile

though clearly there is a lot that should be placed on wicked, ak, nagerous, moz, and anarks shoulders as they have been heavily active in the game thus far at different times.