CoffeeCream wrote:OK I've been reading the Christians go back and forth with the nonbelievers or whatever you want to call them. I find the whole idea of eternal bliss or eternal damnation an interesting topic. I'm taking a world religions class. If the JF's here are willing I want to engage them in a discussion because I've got some questions for them.
I should define what I believe so we're all clear here. First of all I think the idea of evolution to be silly. Nature just magically selected certain species to survive and thrive? No way! There's too many holes in the theories and nobody's been able to prove it. The people who believe in it are welcome to it, but they've been given enough time to produce the evidence and they never are able to. There's too much complexity and design in the world for me to deny that there is some type of supreme being or higher power. If you want to call it God then go ahead.
On the other hand, you've got the Christians claiming that God loves everyone. There are so many inconsistencies with their claims. Let me just point out a few that I think are bogus.
1. God is omniscient. Ok if that's true then why did he create Satan knowing that he would one day rebel? Doesn't that mean that God indirectly created evil? Then how could He be considered a good God. Also why did he allow for man to eat the apple? That seems a little cruel to me - sort of like teasing a child into doing something that's bad for them.
2. If God is all powerful then why doesn't he just show himself to everyone? Either that or perform some miracle which would prove to everyone once and for all that he is actually interested in us. I think he exists by the way, but Christians tell us that he loves us. Why doesn't he get involved in all the wars here and put an end to them all? I don't think anyone can prove that this supreme being is really directly interested in our affairs.
3. Since Christians believe in free will, then why do they constantly want to legislate morality? Shouldn't people be free to do pretty much what they want as long as it conforms to the law or aren't killing anyone?
4. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like that someone can live the absolute worst life but then 'accept' Jesus (whatever that means) and still go to heaven (wherever that is). On the flip side, someone can live the absolute best life but not 'accept' Jesus and still go to hell. Huh!!! Oh yeah, and how can a loving God send someone to hell in the first place?
If any Jesus Freaks or Christians want to discuss this I will listen and not call you a name or make fun of you. My position is that there is some type of God or supreme being but it's impossible to personally know him as he stopped caring about us or is apathetic. I await any of you.
1.He created angels, Satan happened to be one of them. He gave them (like how he gave humans) the right of free will. After a while Satan figured he was more powerful than God, and he rebeled. There was a HUGE battle between Gods angels and the angels that sided with Satan. Gods side won, and banished Satan to hell with all the other angels who wished to go with him. Those angels we now call devils.
2. He is interested in our affairs, but if u look at what the USA goverment has been banning (no praying in school etc.) then u would know why, most goverments dont want Gods help at all. So God, being the kind gentleman he is, backed off. Soon after that happened, bad things started happening to the USA (9/11 attacks, hurricane Katrina, school shootings) and that sort of stuff is happening more and more because of it. And God once showed himself to Paul, a non-believer of God and a Christian persecuter, and Paul went blind. He doesnt get involved because the world leaders refuse his help, and he doesnt show himself to everybody because he is to magnificent. And he dos perform miracles, and he sent his only son, Jesus Christ, to prove that he was real.
3. They should and they are, but its just the goverment tries to stop them. All people down deep want to do good, not evil. Usually when they do evil they are possesed by demons, but that is people who kill.
4. that is not true, u cannot go around killing people (or anything like that) and then go to heaven. And if u live a life of good, u still will go to heaven. If u dont do any mortal sins (kill people, steal stuff etc.) but u still sin alot, then u will go to Pergatory. (dont know if i spelled that right)
Pergatory is a place between Heaven and Hell. Before u go there after u die, u get a brief glimpse at God. In Pergatory, God slowly makes u a better person (well, since your dead, its your soul he is making better)
and once all that is done, it might take centurys, u can go to Heaven.
And what u said for #4 was a protastants point of view, which is a breakoff of the real church, the Catholic church. Most protastants convert back to the Catholic church.