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[Official] Freestyle Changes -- Give us your feedback!

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Do you approve of these changes?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:59 pm

Yes
61
64%
No
34
36%
 
Total votes : 95

Postby nagerous on Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:00 am

lackattack wrote:Yes, I should have done the poll differently, but I'm not going to drag this out.

It seems that the first change is quite controversial, so I'll shelve it and go with the 12 hour expiry on the block.

Oh, and I don't want to confuse people with multiple variations of freestyle, so let's forget about that proposal too :)

Thanks everyone for the feedback!



I agree with this. The second change is logical but the first change is not. Particularly in games like this one:

007-09-21 08:25:52 - nagerous attacked North American Ice from Barents Ice and conquered it from juventino
2007-09-21 08:26:05 - juventino ran out of time
2007-09-21 08:26:05 - nagerous ran out of time
2007-09-21 08:26:05 - Incrementing game to round 4
2007-09-21 08:26:09 - juventino receives 6 armies for 18 territories
2007-09-21 08:26:11 - nagerous receives 3 armies for holding Ice Cap
2007-09-21 08:26:11 - nagerous receives 5 armies for 16 territories

in a speed game we both ran out of time and because he started his round first if the first change was implemented it would bugger my game up as I would lose lots of my bonus. The setup as it is would be much fairer, the 12 hour idea is good though.
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Postby yeti_c on Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:28 am

Actually - you would've been able to play your turn as he would've been playing over half way through the time limit...

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Postby lackattack on Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:43 am

nagerous wrote:I agree with this. The second change is logical but the first change is not. Particularly in games like this one:

007-09-21 08:25:52 - nagerous attacked North American Ice from Barents Ice and conquered it from juventino
2007-09-21 08:26:05 - juventino ran out of time
2007-09-21 08:26:05 - nagerous ran out of time
2007-09-21 08:26:05 - Incrementing game to round 4
2007-09-21 08:26:09 - juventino receives 6 armies for 18 territories
2007-09-21 08:26:11 - nagerous receives 3 armies for holding Ice Cap
2007-09-21 08:26:11 - nagerous receives 5 armies for 16 territories

in a speed game we both ran out of time and because he started his round first if the first change was implemented it would bugger my game up as I would lose lots of my bonus. The setup as it is would be much fairer, the 12 hour idea is good though.


You're wrong. Round 3 expired naturally, so there is no block. The changes have no effect on this situation.
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Postby insomniacdude on Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:34 am

You know, just because poor lack didn't have the foresight to see the problem in Freestyle gameplay (nothing personal lack :wink: ) doesn't mean that it's "right". He made a mistake in setting it up initially, and now because people are taking advantage of his uncharacteristic lack of foresight he shouldn't have the gall to fix his mistakes now?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the point of freestyle to speed up games in comparison to sequential? People wanted a turn every 24 hours, so Freestyle was concocted to give that to them. It was a way to ensure a person could have a turn every day. I highly doubt he was thinking of the hugely strategic implications and hugely underhanded tactics that many freestyle players now use to abuse the system when he actually did create it. The proposed change would bring Freestyle back into a more sensible playstyle that was originally intended.

At the very least it should be an alternate option. Some of us do want Freestyle, but I refuse to be abused by pointwhores because they refuse to legitimately win a game.

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Postby banana_hammocks on Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:08 am

Before i got premium i played entirely freestyle and i still prefer it but don't have the time for it.

I realise that lack has decided to implement the ability for the player who ended the last round to play after 12hrs (or when the other person starts). This is a very good change as it stops the ability of delaying in 1v1's. Which the player has no chance to stop. With this it may make it possible to have other double turns but at least the player has a 12hr chance to stop it.

I am very glad this has come in, i will play more freestyle games because of it.



The other suggestion of not letting anyone play until the previous player has finished, must not be implemented or if it is it must be done as a new setting. I am assuming everything is happening in the first 12hrs.

It has been brought in to stop "lurkers" (starting the moment someone else does), however it is going to just change the problem. In a 6 player ffa, one person starts their turn, everyone else can't start until they have finished. Everyone will be waiting for the them to finish so they can be the next player to take their go. This may mean that someone could be waiting for 3-5 hours to take their go, to me that is not freestyle.

If two people happen to have the same time for their lunch break as will happen a lot at school, only one of them will be able to play, leaving the others to have to find another time to play (which may not be possible, as the site is designed to give people close to 24hrs to make their move).

I would assume that team members could start at the same time, otherwise you lose a huge tactical part of the game, of real time shifting of troops from one team mate to the next.


The main attraction of freestyle as i see it is that it is far quicker - this is beneficial especially for non-premium members, as you can know you will get at least a go every day. The second is it is far more intense, you have to act quickly to block others making their moves, you don't have as long to create strategies, and have to be able to think on your feet. Please don't change freestyle to sequential just to please the premium members. Think about the non-premium members.
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Postby lackattack on Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:47 am

Hey banana hammocks!

I think you misunderstood me. You're describing the problem with "freesyle with locks". Indeed, to address that problem the game clock would have to pause when someone is playing, extending the round past 24 hours. But I have no plans to implement "freesyle with locks" in the near future.

Instead, my proposal was to have a lock that only applied to Player A, the member who was blocked from going first.

Just wanted to clear that up :)
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:05 am

I completely agree with these changes, just get on with it. Everyone who opposes it is not a lot better than a cheater anyway.

Ok, that was the short version. The longer version is that I think waiting to cheat someone out of his turn is the ONLY truly malicious thing that needs to be solved. I don't think the thing where you can get continent bonus by playing last, waiting for someone else to start and then starting your turn is all that bad.

But, the primary thing needs to be addressed so I'll readily vote yes and let's get on with it as proposed.
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Re: [Official] Freestyle Changes -- Give us your feedback!

Postby AAElite on Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:42 pm

lackattack wrote:The first change, extending the block to the end of the Player B's turn (instead of the beginning), is designed to prevent situations where Player A conquered a continent he can't hold and lurks around waiting for Player B to begin his turn, at which point Player A will immediately refresh, click Begin Turn, and gets the bonus before Player B has time to attack.


I think that this would be a fine idea for a change because, though i use this strategy myself on occasion, it does help to level the playing field a little. On the other hand, it kind of goes against the idea of freestyle. so its a trade off.

I am not opposed to the second change, per say, but i think that it is unnecessary. Why waste time encoding something that can be solved differently/easier? People who do not wish to play where this tactic can be used should just NOT PLAY 1V1 FREESTYLE. And everyone should be especially aware not to play anyone who has been known to use this strategy. It is not an issue in larger games because someone else if bound to move. And if no one does there is a much bigger issue of mulits/secret alliances.
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Re: [Official] Freestyle Changes -- Give us your feedback!

Postby Aerial Attack on Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:34 pm

AAElite wrote:I am not opposed to the second change, per say, but i think that it is unnecessary. Why waste time encoding something that can be solved differently/easier? People who do not wish to play where this tactic can be used should just NOT PLAY 1V1 FREESTYLE. And everyone should be especially aware not to play anyone who has been known to use this strategy. It is not an issue in larger games because someone else if bound to move. And if no one does there is a much bigger issue of mulits/secret alliances.


Actually, it IS a case of alliances, but NOT secret or multi. It is from Freestyle team games that most of the abuse stems.

And, as for not playing 1 v 1 Freestyle. That is IMPOSSIBLE - every game boils down to 1 v 1 at the end.

Finally, a lot of people who are new to the site are unaware that this kind of thing can occur. Lack wants to even the playing field a little for newbies.
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:50 pm

Why worry about newbies more than about the solid community of CC members who use the site daily, (or the whole day, and night. :) )

Anyway, I submit that even with the proposed change intended to stop people grabbing a continent, then quickly starting the new round: This doesn't stop it completely anyway. You can still get lucky with the next player starting (and finishing) his turn in an area nowhere near where you are, or without the ability to break you. Honestly I think this one is all in the game; it adds excitement.

I mean, same applies to people who are within an inch of being snuffed out; they'd want to start their turn ASAP as well, does anyone want to prevent that too? I think this is just part of the format; *IF* you can wait to play last, then you have the advantage of playing relatively early in the next round and even the proposed change won't completely remove that advantage. Really, people who are opposed to gaining a moderate advantage from playing late (last) then early shouldn't really be playing Freestyle games.
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adding an hour to the 24 hour go

Postby daveygodfrey on Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:10 am

Wouldn't this solution solve it:

If player A waits until 23h59m into the round to have their go, then the round should stay open for at least 1hour after the first person starts the round. This gives player B a window to take their go.

If player A wait 2 hours into the round then nothing changes.
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Postby Loudawg on Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:03 am

I think that that style of play can be fun as well ad that its all part of freestyle, many people still play it this way so I dont really think it "needs" to be fixed, maybe the new changes can be an option, or a new style of play can be added and this style left alone. my thoughts anyways
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Postby Twill on Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:57 am

Davey, the problem is that if you're asleep during that one hour, you still miss your turn, and people have become so good at doing this that they plan to move when people are already asleep.....

It's scary how much thought people put into these things :)

Have a good one
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:19 am

Surely everyone uses the Sleep-Analyzer greasemonkey script by now that quickly summarizes which of your opponents will likely be asleep, when?

I don't think I could live without it anymore.
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Postby poo-maker on Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:02 am

Are these changes going to implemented in the next update? If they are, could i suggest leaving freestyle as it currently is, but to also turn the suggestions into a new setting instead of changing the current one?
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Postby lackattack on Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:30 am

I prefer to improve something than have a good option and a bad one
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Postby Aerial Attack on Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:17 pm

lackattack wrote:I prefer to improve something than have a good option and a bad one


Introducing the new and improved LackAttack (1.02). In order to continue using the old "broken" lackattack (1.01) ... well, you can't - he doesn't want you to. Please insert payment (premium) to upgrade NOW. *smirk*
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