Logic dictates that there is a God!

[happysadfun]

Where does it say that the Pope is holy in the bible? Maybe in the Catholic edition. The word "pope" is not used at all in the bible.

[vtmarik]

*shrugs* I don't know, it's your book. How about you find some passages. I've got better things to do with my time, like eating food.

[strike wolf]

It's in the catholic edition probably. The pope isn't even supposed to effect Lutherans and other christian beliefs out side of catholicism.

[vtmarik]

It's in the catholic edition probably. The pope isn't even supposed to effect Lutherans and other christian beliefs out side of catholicism.

Ah, yeah. Forgot about that.

[carl]

Right, i for one am baptist, and don't have any involvement with the pope at all. but that doesn't make baptists any less of a christian than others.

[Truman]

It's just that all kinds of people consider Catholics to be Christians. I even heard a few scholars say the same. But it is simply not true. Others say that Christianity was a spin-off from the Roman Catholic Church, when this is also not true.

[Pilate]

It's just that all kinds of people consider Catholics to be Christians. I even heard a few scholars say the same. But it is simply not true. Others say that Christianity was a spin-off from the Roman Catholic Church, when this is also not true.

I think you mean that people consider all christians to be catholics?

[Truman]

No, I mean some people consider Catholics and Christians believe the same thing, especially back in mideval and ancient times.

[strike wolf]

back in the mid-evil (spelled that way for a reason) times Roman Catholicism was the only form of christianity, other than Greek Orthodox.

[vtmarik]

Um... let's see if it meets the litmus test for being Christianity.

1) Christians consider Jesus to be the Messiah.


Yep, it's Christianity. Any questions?

[Truman]

2) Christians believe Mary had a sin nature like every other person and had other children. The Bible says this also.

Yep: Catholics aren't Christians.

...Any questions?

[jay_a2j]

I love how Christians always try and squirm out of this one. Look, if you're going to use Biblical passages to condemn the behaviour of others (e.g., homosexuality, abortion), you'd better be willing to apply it to yourselves just as rigorously, if not more so. It's right there in black and white - sell your stuff and give to the poor. In essence, jay, according to your own assertion that the Bible is the word of God, God HAS told you to sell your stuff. JC did not qualify what he said.

Do you think God wants all his people to walk around naked, owning nothing? You see, you are twisting scripture. The "sell everything" verses are pointing out that you cannot serve both God and money. I can't speak for anyone else but I personally am not a homosexual and don't have abortions either. God has NOT told me to "sell my stuff" , but I would hope that if He did , I would be obediant to Him. Everything that I have He gave to me...its all His. Now lets be realistic when we are interpreting scripture.

Turn the other cheek is another good one. How many times have you heard a Christian say, "Yes, I follow the Bible but I support the war"? jay, I believe you have asked rhetorically if the US was just supposed to sit back and do nothing following 9/11. The answer, according to your own assertion that the Bible is the word of God, is a qualified yes. I say qualified because your religion also requires you to forgive your enemy, love your enemy and show him the other side of your face so that he can slap it. Now, from a pragmatic standpoint, the war may or may not have been a good move (although I must say, I am very happy my country was not part of the coalition of the willing - I would not even follow Bush into a line-up at the grocery store); however, according to Christ's teachings (and Christian means followers of Christ, just so we don't forget), supporting and engaging in war and other acts of violence is immoral. The only way I can think of to reconcile the "turn the other cheek" philosophy with the "Bush doctrine" is to rack it up to the separation of church and state.

Really now? "Turn the other cheek" is a personal commandment. As far as Govornments go....look at the OT! God was WITH Israel when they conquered their enemies! The truth of the matter is, is life went as God had wanted it to go to begin with there would be no wars at all. Be He let us half-wit humans have free will and look what happens? As a Nation we have the right to defend ourselves... if you don't believe in that France has some vaccancies.

Sure, the religious right is real serious about getting prayer into schools, 10 commandment statues into courthouses and nativity scenes on public property at Christmas but I don't hear too much from them when it comes to lobbying against war and for the fair distribution of wealth. If I'm not mistaken, the Christian right spent a lot of money fighting gay marriage up here in Canada (some of which was raised by US groups and sent here to support anti-gay marriage groups). Do you suppose they thought for a second about whether or not that money might better be used to feed starving people. I doubt it because if they had thought for a second, that money would never have been spent on lobbying. This is the hypocrisy you always hear the non-Christians laughing about. If you really want to "spread the news" and convert people (which you are required to do under the terms of your religion), maybe try adhering to your religion yourselves and teaching by example rather than spouting off about sensational issues and mindlessly telling others how to live their lives.

Now get out there and sell all your shit!

Come on. First of all there is no Christian on Earth that is perfect... (If there was he wouldn't NEED Jesus). There is nothing wrong fighting against immoral legislation, ie. gay marriage, abortion and the like. And believe it or not, some Christians can "feed the poor" and fight against immoral things. I pay taxes..... and the govornment spends some of my money on things I am against..... but I can't stop that. I can support those who are speaking out against these things and still tithe my 10% and give where God leads me to give.


On a side note, I am against things like shouting at people "You're going to hell!", protesting with signs that say "God hates Fags". This is NOT the love Jesus had in mind when He said, "Love thy neighbor".

[jay_a2j]

Yep: Catholics aren't Christians.

I have to disagree with that. There are born again Catholics. However I do not understand why they would continue to attend a Catholic church. They go to confession..... where as Chritians can confess directly to God. Not all Catholics are Christian..... just like not all Christians who attend church are "Christian".


Christianity is not defined by what denomination it says outside in the church lawn. Christianity is a relationship with God that can only be attained through Christ.

[lilwdlnddude]

There must be a God.

grimreaper wrote:
Some sort of consciousness linking us all together, perhaps. A man in the sky who sends you to a fiery pit when you don't do what he says (but he loves you)? I don't think so.


Now if you'd like to talk theology I'm game. Your view of God is twisted to say the least.

God doesn't "send you to a fiery pit"... you CHOOSE the fiery pit by rejecting God.

Why doesn't God just allow everyone in heaven???

Cause God can not live with SIN. So if you are a sinner... ya just can't live with him. Your choice, not his. And He doesn't force you to love Him.(Cause that wouldn't be love would it?)

Excellent answer Jay. And just to let you all know, I dont want you all to go crazy on me because I'm siding with Jay, I just thought that was a good answer. It made sence to me.

I also have a question. Since everyone always refers to evelution as "when the monkeys turned to humans", does that make evolution a prosses of changing species?

Wow, I just relised that I got that quote from page 1. lol

[cowshrptrn]

I love how everyone twists the Monkeys turning into humans argument into making Evolution sound like some crackpot scheme. Using evolution we have seen that monkeys and humans stemmed from a relatively close ancestor. Every life form stemmed from a clump of bacteria, or some other single celled organism billions of years ago.

The scientific definition of theory is pretty soild, many of these microprocessors and hardware that you use work "in theory", it jsut means we're not 100% positive that things work the way they do, but we know it works well enough to apply it to practical applications

If you look at micro-organisms we see evolution taking place, medicine resistant strains of bacteria and viruses that were in the shadows, or even nonexistent have popped up all over the place.

I guess if you crumpled evolution into a few sentences then, yes, evolution often leads to new species, but Darwin's theory mainly stated that organisms will adapt to their environment through natual selection, whether this led ot a new specie, or jsut a modified form of an existing one depends on the degree of change of the environment

[jay_a2j]

If you look at micro-organisms we see evolution taking place, medicine resistant strains of bacteria and viruses that were in the shadows, or even nonexistent have popped up all over the place.

Thats adaptation not evolution.

I guess if you crumpled evolution into a few sentences then, yes, evolution often leads to new species, but Darwin's theory mainly stated that organisms will adapt to their environment through natual selection, whether this led ot a new specie, or jsut a modified form of an existing one depends on the degree of change of the environment

A fish is a fish is a fish.... it will never be a lizard. We are talking about adding or subtracting chromosomes. Point me to a scientist that can prove this can be done.

[strike wolf]

My opinion. Yes there is evolution but the theory behind it is flawed. The actual way it happens is probably more god-friendly from what I've seen.

[heavycola]

2) Christians believe Mary had a sin nature like every other person and had other children. The Bible says this also.

Yep: Catholics aren't Christians.

...Any questions?

you are a muppet.

[macwin]

this link is for the muppets

http://www.shoutwire.com/comments/24854 ... t_Atheists

[Jolly Roger]

I love how Christians always try and squirm out of this one. Look, if you're going to use Biblical passages to condemn the behaviour of others (e.g., homosexuality, abortion), you'd better be willing to apply it to yourselves just as rigorously, if not more so. It's right there in black and white - sell your stuff and give to the poor. In essence, jay, according to your own assertion that the Bible is the word of God, God HAS told you to sell your stuff. JC did not qualify what he said.

Do you think God wants all his people to walk around naked, owning nothing? You see, you are twisting scripture. The "sell everything" verses are pointing out that you cannot serve both God and money. I can't speak for anyone else but I personally am not a homosexual and don't have abortions either. God has NOT told me to "sell my stuff" , but I would hope that if He did , I would be obediant to Him. Everything that I have He gave to me...its all His. Now lets be realistic when we are interpreting scripture.

If the Bible, as you assert, is the word of God, it makes no difference "what I think" or what you think. This particular passage is quite clear and leaves little room for interpretation. It says sell all you own. It doesn't say sell all you own unless it means you'll end up walking around naked. You're the one twisting scripture so that you can own as much stuff as you want. Like I said, if you're going to comment on or tyr and change anyone's behaviour from a Christian standpoint, start with your own. Then, once you're perfect, you can start commenting on others. The same goes for the religious right in general. If you're going to politicize your religion and try to use it to mandate how other people live, then you'd bloody well be ready to follow it yourself first. Given the "sell all you own clause", this is clearly not the case. I don't see too many poor people in their ranks. As you said yourself earlier, the democratic party is supported by the poor whereas the rupublicans are supported by the rich.

[Jolly Roger]

Turn the other cheek is another good one. How many times have you heard a Christian say, "Yes, I follow the Bible but I support the war"? jay, I believe you have asked rhetorically if the US was just supposed to sit back and do nothing following 9/11. The answer, according to your own assertion that the Bible is the word of God, is a qualified yes. I say qualified because your religion also requires you to forgive your enemy, love your enemy and show him the other side of your face so that he can slap it. Now, from a pragmatic standpoint, the war may or may not have been a good move (although I must say, I am very happy my country was not part of the coalition of the willing - I would not even follow Bush into a line-up at the grocery store); however, according to Christ's teachings (and Christian means followers of Christ, just so we don't forget), supporting and engaging in war and other acts of violence is immoral. The only way I can think of to reconcile the "turn the other cheek" philosophy with the "Bush doctrine" is to rack it up to the separation of church and state.

Really now? "Turn the other cheek" is a personal commandment. As far as Govornments go....look at the OT! God was WITH Israel when they conquered their enemies! The truth of the matter is, is life went as God had wanted it to go to begin with there would be no wars at all. Be He let us half-wit humans have free will and look what happens? As a Nation we have the right to defend ourselves... if you don't believe in that France has some vaccancies.

If you want to follow the OT, I hear that Judaism is looking for people. Since you keep calling yourself a Christian, let's stick with what your boy JC said.
I'm not saying you don't have the right to defend yourselves - all I'm saying is that, according to YOUR religion, you're supposed to turn the other cheek. If you'd prefer not to turn the other cheek, that's fine but don't turn around and point out someone else's shortcomings from your religious perspective. In short, I'm not saying that you shouldn't go to war; I'm saying that, as a so-called Christian, you should be saying that you shouldn't go to war. You just said yourself that, if God had it his way, there would be no wars. If God didn't want any wars, it's funny that he'd be choosing sides or actually going to war.

[Jolly Roger]

Sure, the religious right is real serious about getting prayer into schools, 10 commandment statues into courthouses and nativity scenes on public property at Christmas but I don't hear too much from them when it comes to lobbying against war and for the fair distribution of wealth. If I'm not mistaken, the Christian right spent a lot of money fighting gay marriage up here in Canada (some of which was raised by US groups and sent here to support anti-gay marriage groups). Do you suppose they thought for a second about whether or not that money might better be used to feed starving people. I doubt it because if they had thought for a second, that money would never have been spent on lobbying. This is the hypocrisy you always hear the non-Christians laughing about. If you really want to "spread the news" and convert people (which you are required to do under the terms of your religion), maybe try adhering to your religion yourselves and teaching by example rather than spouting off about sensational issues and mindlessly telling others how to live their lives.

Now get out there and sell all your shit!

Come on. First of all there is no Christian on Earth that is perfect... (If there was he wouldn't NEED Jesus). There is nothing wrong fighting against immoral legislation, ie. gay marriage, abortion and the like. And believe it or not, some Christians can "feed the poor" and fight against immoral things. I pay taxes..... and the govornment spends some of my money on things I am against..... but I can't stop that. I can support those who are speaking out against these things and still tithe my 10% and give where God leads me to give.


On a side note, I am against things like shouting at people "You're going to hell!", protesting with signs that say "God hates Fags". This is NOT the love Jesus had in mind when He said, "Love thy neighbor". :wink:

If there are no perfect Christians, then according to JC, none of you should be "throwing stones".

In my understanding, Christians are not expected to be perfect; they are, however, expected to be repentent and to try and change their ways. Is this correct?

[Truman]

I have to disagree with that. There are born again Catholics. However I do not understand why they would continue to attend a Catholic church. They go to confession..... where as Chritians can confess directly to God. Not all Catholics are Christian..... just like not all Christians who attend church are "Christian".


Christianity is not defined by what denomination it says outside in the church lawn. Christianity is a relationship with God that can only be attained through Christ.

I understand this. But I'm talking about Catholics that follow the true Catholic religion. Sure, there are Catholics who aren't true Catholics with all the superstition and rubbish, but that's not the issue I'm discussing.

[jay_a2j]

Sure, the religious right is real serious about getting prayer into schools, 10 commandment statues into courthouses and nativity scenes on public property at Christmas but I don't hear too much from them when it comes to lobbying against war and for the fair distribution of wealth. If I'm not mistaken, the Christian right spent a lot of money fighting gay marriage up here in Canada (some of which was raised by US groups and sent here to support anti-gay marriage groups). Do you suppose they thought for a second about whether or not that money might better be used to feed starving people. I doubt it because if they had thought for a second, that money would never have been spent on lobbying. This is the hypocrisy you always hear the non-Christians laughing about. If you really want to "spread the news" and convert people (which you are required to do under the terms of your religion), maybe try adhering to your religion yourselves and teaching by example rather than spouting off about sensational issues and mindlessly telling others how to live their lives.

Now get out there and sell all your shit!

Come on. First of all there is no Christian on Earth that is perfect... (If there was he wouldn't NEED Jesus). There is nothing wrong fighting against immoral legislation, ie. gay marriage, abortion and the like. And believe it or not, some Christians can "feed the poor" and fight against immoral things. I pay taxes..... and the govornment spends some of my money on things I am against..... but I can't stop that. I can support those who are speaking out against these things and still tithe my 10% and give where God leads me to give.


On a side note, I am against things like shouting at people "You're going to hell!", protesting with signs that say "God hates Fags". This is NOT the love Jesus had in mind when He said, "Love thy neighbor".

If there are no perfect Christians, then according to JC, none of you should be "throwing stones".

In my understanding, Christians are not expected to be perfect; they are, however, expected to be repentent and to try and change their ways. Is this correct?

Jolly this is in responce to all your posts: Don't pick and choose verses that you claim are "black and white" as if you are an authority on scripture. There are countless of scholars on the Bible who know what these verses are talking about. Obviously by your posts you are not well versed on what Christians believe or what the Word of God means. Take some time to get some Bible studies, attend a church or something before trying to interpret Gods word. Questioning scripture is one thing but comming up with an interpretation and condemming those who don't READ it that way is another.


God Bless.

[Pilate]

Sure, the religious right is real serious about getting prayer into schools, 10 commandment statues into courthouses and nativity scenes on public property at Christmas but I don't hear too much from them when it comes to lobbying against war and for the fair distribution of wealth. If I'm not mistaken, the Christian right spent a lot of money fighting gay marriage up here in Canada (some of which was raised by US groups and sent here to support anti-gay marriage groups). Do you suppose they thought for a second about whether or not that money might better be used to feed starving people. I doubt it because if they had thought for a second, that money would never have been spent on lobbying. This is the hypocrisy you always hear the non-Christians laughing about. If you really want to "spread the news" and convert people (which you are required to do under the terms of your religion), maybe try adhering to your religion yourselves and teaching by example rather than spouting off about sensational issues and mindlessly telling others how to live their lives.

Now get out there and sell all your shit!

Come on. First of all there is no Christian on Earth that is perfect... (If there was he wouldn't NEED Jesus). There is nothing wrong fighting against immoral legislation, ie. gay marriage, abortion and the like. And believe it or not, some Christians can "feed the poor" and fight against immoral things. I pay taxes..... and the govornment spends some of my money on things I am against..... but I can't stop that. I can support those who are speaking out against these things and still tithe my 10% and give where God leads me to give.


On a side note, I am against things like shouting at people "You're going to hell!", protesting with signs that say "God hates Fags". This is NOT the love Jesus had in mind when He said, "Love thy neighbor".

If there are no perfect Christians, then according to JC, none of you should be "throwing stones".

In my understanding, Christians are not expected to be perfect; they are, however, expected to be repentent and to try and change their ways. Is this correct?

This is not correct. Christians are expected to pick and choose biblical verses according to whichever ones suit their biases best at the moment.