Evolution vs Creation-Comparing each View

[comic boy]

what your saying is that i can do whatever i want...rob a bank, rape a friend, murder six million people in several years but then ask for forgiveness and be forgiven??? how is that fair compared to a friendly man who doesn't believe in god but lives hapily at peace with everyone, helping everyone, doing charity work, helping the homeless, donating to charity...but this second man is still going to go to hell while the first wouldn't? something is wrong here...

In a sense yes, but not like what your thinking. If the man who robs the bank etc., truly repents and accepts God, he will be accepted as a follower of Christ. You can't just do all that, then say forgive me God. You have to mean it. You have to realize that what you did is wrong and repent. The man who does good works does not necessarily accept God, good works will not get you into heaven. Only accepting Christ will. If you don't understand that, then it's your problem and I truly feel sorry for you.

Not as sorry as I feel for any children of yours who might be exposed to your nonsense

[Bavarian Raven]

Not as sorry as I feel for any children of yours who might be exposed to your nonsense

amen

[Backglass]

You guys are talking about things you don't understand.

Leprechauns are all loving and all forgiving, however they can only forgive you if you choose to be forgiven. You wouldn't want to let killers, rapists and other criminals live with you. You probably wouldn't even let them live with you if they repented, you would no doubt judge them instead by their past.

Leprechauns looks past what you have done in the past, if you ask for their forgiveness, you will receive it along with many pots-o-gold. Everyone has the chance to hear about Leprechauns, as for children who die before they can be exposed to Leprechauns, they are given pots-o-gold because they also do not realize that they are sinning.

Also, the main thing that sends you to hell, is rejecting Leprechauns, which is what many of you are doing now.

Magical gods have never existed. Leprechauns however are very real.

I feel so sad for all of you.

[jiminski]

what your saying is that i can do whatever i want...rob a bank, rape a friend, murder six million people in several years but then ask for forgiveness and be forgiven??? how is that fair compared to a friendly man who doesn't believe in god but lives hapily at peace with everyone, helping everyone, doing charity work, helping the homeless, donating to charity...but this second man is still going to go to hell while the first wouldn't? something is wrong here...

In a sense yes, but not like what your thinking. If the man who robs the bank etc., truly repents and accepts God, he will be accepted as a follower of Christ. You can't just do all that, then say forgive me God. You have to mean it. You have to realize that what you did is wrong and repent. The man who does good works does not necessarily accept God, good works will not get you into heaven. Only accepting Christ will. If you don't understand that, then it's your problem and I truly feel sorry for you.

Not as sorry as I feel for any children of yours who might be exposed to your nonsense

This is brilliant! I am becoming a Catholic tomorrow (after the raping and pillaging obviously)

On a more serious note though and digressing completely from the thread .. sorry...

I feel that Catholicisms greater acceptance of sin with repentance, without contradiction, is why it is more popular than the more honest Protestant branches.
(the born again American branch of Anglicanism allows for a similar kind of 'get out of gaol free card' hence perhaps its ability to be sustained by the imperfections in society)

Catholic societies can still remain staunch and go on with the sometimes sinful practice of general existence and living normally, where-as protestants have a more intellectual and active journey to embark upon after sin.

In my opinion this is why most non Catholic Christian societies have become secular. The possibility of hypocrisy is allowed for if you are a Catholic.

Back to subject: religion is a fairly selfish concept which drives people to rebel against common sense in order to receive peace of mind and spiritual zest.
In being so it contradicts what it purports to be.

Don't get me wrong it can be a wonderful and inspirational thing but placed in the context of biblical dogma it is utter nonsense.

Perhaps religion describes a part of man which hitherto has not properly been grasped but to ignore the growth of human knowledge to bolster antiquated teachings of the past is ridiculous.

Remaining true to the essence of Religion is good!
Indeed would we be what we are today without the evolution of religion. It gave us decency and the structures for social cohesion.

To remain true to outmoded ideas in order to maintain religious zeal, goes against the fundamental principles of humankind. It circumvents the prerequisite of personal and societal improvement!
More it rebels against our greatest instincts to learn from the travails of our ancestors.

[Snorri1234]

Snorri: What's with all the "that has nothing to do with evolution?" This thread isn't called evolution, it's called Creationism vs. Evolution, things about creationism have just as much right to be here. You missed the entire point of the parts pertaining to creationism, they were trying to show you how looking from the creationism angle, everything is in place, while from the evolution side there are holes.

No I meant is had nothing to do with disproving evolution or anything. It didn't even had anything to do with creationism, it was all about God and how cool he is and asking us why we don't believe in him.

Besides, with creationism everything falls into place because nothing is explained. It's all "God did it"! It's the equilavent of replying "because" to any question.

Those posts are an attack on Atheism, nothing less.

[Snorri1234]

Question: How is it that animals can't speak or do more "intelligent" things like that?

If we all evolved from basically the same thing, why are humans they only ones that can talk and build structures like we do? It doesn't make sense that we get all these traits while other animals have none of them.

1.) Because we killed most of them, or they died out. Neanderthals could fabricate stuff and at least had basic forms of communication, but they died out because we were better.
2.) You don't need intelligence or speech to survive. We just found a niche in it, while for example elephants got bigger so they could crush stuff and had less to fear from predators.

[Neoteny]

Question: How is it that animals can't speak or do more "intelligent" things like that?

If we all evolved from basically the same thing, why are humans they only ones that can talk and build structures like we do? It doesn't make sense that we get all these traits while other animals have none of them.

1.) Because we killed most of them, or they died out. Neanderthals could fabricate stuff and at least had basic forms of communication, but they died out because we were better.
2.) You don't need intelligence or speech to survive. We just found a niche in it, while for example elephants got bigger so they could crush stuff and had less to fear from predators.

I doubt that we are the only cause. Most animals aren't subjected to the same environmental factors as we are. And chimps are displaying basic "higher level" brain function, specifically tool use. Many primates also demonstrate complex social structures and bonobos participate in sex for favors, amusement, and also perform the act in various positions other than the "normal" position.

The thought that elephants got bigger so they could crush stuff is awesome. All elephants are direct descendants of the Incredible Hulk.

[Bavarian Raven]

...not to mention animals like ravens are clever and can figure things out, not to mention remember...

[Snorri1234]

I doubt that we are the only cause. Most animals aren't subjected to the same environmental factors as we are. And chimps are displaying basic "higher level" brain function, specifically tool use. Many primates also demonstrate complex social structures and bonobos participate in sex for favors, amusement, and also perform the act in various positions other than the "normal" position.

Yeah there are other reasons, the one I'm talking about is just that there were actual species like us.

[unriggable]

Also, the main thing that sends you to hell, is rejecting God, which is what many of you are doing now.

You're right. It doesn't matter if you beat your wife or steal from the poor or lie to get a good job, if you accept sky daddy you will be worthy. What a shitty system. You really believe that shit in the bible? You don't think that in Ezekiel when God said Tyre would fall, it would (26:7)? Because it didn't. There. Wrong. That is a failed prophecy, a false promise. What stops the rest of it from being that way?

Some of the more evasive christian biblefuckers on this site seemed to completely ignore this. I suggest you take a look before grabbing the vaseline and heading out to the bathroom for twenty minutes.

[Carebian Knight]

Carebian Knight wrote:
Bavarian Raven wrote:
what your saying is that i can do whatever i want...rob a bank, rape a friend, murder six million people in several years but then ask for forgiveness and be forgiven??? how is that fair compared to a friendly man who doesn't believe in god but lives hapily at peace with everyone, helping everyone, doing charity work, helping the homeless, donating to charity...but this second man is still going to go to hell while the first wouldn't? something is wrong here...


In a sense yes, but not like what your thinking. If the man who robs the bank etc., truly repents and accepts God, he will be accepted as a follower of Christ. You can't just do all that, then say forgive me God. You have to mean it. You have to realize that what you did is wrong and repent. The man who does good works does not necessarily accept God, good works will not get you into heaven. Only accepting Christ will. If you don't understand that, then it's your problem and I truly feel sorry for you.

so adding onto what i and u said, lets say for example person A was raised in a loving family that were atheists (sp) and that thought train was implanted in their mind at an early age. Then lets say at eighty after living a long nice life of helping people and the such he wants to become religous...

...so he goes down to the local Lutheran or Roman catholic or what not church and joins. He could pray every weekend, go to church every sunday and the such...yet there would always be a shred of doubt in his mind...and because of that shred of doubt he could never fully believe 100% with all of his heart... so then despite his "good" intentions is he going to hell???


ok then lets say person B lives a nice long full happy life of helping people and everything else nice but for some reason (isolation) he has no knowledge of "god". He was a nice lovely person who helped his neighbor and the such...is he too condemned to hell???


finally if the "creator" is omnipresent why do we have to go to church to worship him???


(sorry to be getting off topic but this needs to be "cleared" up once and for all)

Top two yes, I think, keep in mind I'm still sort of learning myself.

You don't have to go to church, you can go to church to help you stay on track, but personally I see no reason for it. I disagree with many things that my religion agrees with, but I still consider myself part of that religion because I have the same ideas, just not stupid rules

Not as sorry as I feel for any children of yours who might be exposed to your nonsense

Personally, I'd rather let my children learn the same way I did. Go to religion classes, then decide on their own. I hate it when people make the decisions for you, or tell you what you have to do. As far as religion, I will tell my kids everything I know, have them go to church for a few years, then let them decide. I won't force my ideas on them, as I've said, it's about free will.

[unriggable]

Umm, what separates stupid rules from ideas? And why can't you answer some questions?

[Carebian Knight]

Rules being going to church every week, confessing to the preist often, along with others. Ideas=beliefs. Belief in God, insert everything I've already said here.

I can't answer all questions because I'm one kid, I'd love to take the time to answer all questions but I can't, so I take the shortest responses and post them.

[unriggable]

Rules being going to church every week, confessing to the preist often, along with others. Ideas=beliefs. Belief in God, insert everything I've already said here.

I can't answer all questions because I'm one kid, I'd love to take the time to answer all questions but I can't, so I take the shortest responses and post them.

So you don't believe confessions are necessary but you do think science, as carefully studied as it is, is bullshit?

[Snorri1234]

I can't answer all questions because I'm one kid, I'd love to take the time to answer all questions but I can't, so I take the shortest responses and post them.

That wasn't the shortest response.

[Carebian Knight]

Rules being going to church every week, confessing to the preist often, along with others. Ideas=beliefs. Belief in God, insert everything I've already said here.

I can't answer all questions because I'm one kid, I'd love to take the time to answer all questions but I can't, so I take the shortest responses and post them.

So you don't believe confessions are necessary but you do think science, as carefully studied as it is, is bullshit?

I don't believe confessing to a priest is necessary. If you want to confess, talk to God, you don't have to go through a priest.

[unriggable]

Rules being going to church every week, confessing to the preist often, along with others. Ideas=beliefs. Belief in God, insert everything I've already said here.

I can't answer all questions because I'm one kid, I'd love to take the time to answer all questions but I can't, so I take the shortest responses and post them.

So you don't believe confessions are necessary but you do think science, as carefully studied as it is, is bullshit?

I don't believe confessing to a priest is necessary. If you want to confess, talk to God, you don't have to go through a priest.

Why confess if there is a divine plan?

[joecoolfrog]

Carebian Knight wrote:
Bavarian Raven wrote:
what your saying is that i can do whatever i want...rob a bank, rape a friend, murder six million people in several years but then ask for forgiveness and be forgiven??? how is that fair compared to a friendly man who doesn't believe in god but lives hapily at peace with everyone, helping everyone, doing charity work, helping the homeless, donating to charity...but this second man is still going to go to hell while the first wouldn't? something is wrong here...


In a sense yes, but not like what your thinking. If the man who robs the bank etc., truly repents and accepts God, he will be accepted as a follower of Christ. You can't just do all that, then say forgive me God. You have to mean it. You have to realize that what you did is wrong and repent. The man who does good works does not necessarily accept God, good works will not get you into heaven. Only accepting Christ will. If you don't understand that, then it's your problem and I truly feel sorry for you.

so adding onto what i and u said, lets say for example person A was raised in a loving family that were atheists (sp) and that thought train was implanted in their mind at an early age. Then lets say at eighty after living a long nice life of helping people and the such he wants to become religous...

...so he goes down to the local Lutheran or Roman catholic or what not church and joins. He could pray every weekend, go to church every sunday and the such...yet there would always be a shred of doubt in his mind...and because of that shred of doubt he could never fully believe 100% with all of his heart... so then despite his "good" intentions is he going to hell???


ok then lets say person B lives a nice long full happy life of helping people and everything else nice but for some reason (isolation) he has no knowledge of "god". He was a nice lovely person who helped his neighbor and the such...is he too condemned to hell???


finally if the "creator" is omnipresent why do we have to go to church to worship him???


(sorry to be getting off topic but this needs to be "cleared" up once and for all)

Top two yes, I think, keep in mind I'm still sort of learning myself.

You don't have to go to church, you can go to church to help you stay on track, but personally I see no reason for it. I disagree with many things that my religion agrees with, but I still consider myself part of that religion because I have the same ideas, just not stupid rules

Not as sorry as I feel for any children of yours who might be exposed to your nonsense

Personally, I'd rather let my children learn the same way I did. Go to religion classes, then decide on their own. I hate it when people make the decisions for you, or tell you what you have to do. As far as religion, I will tell my kids everything I know, have them go to church for a few years, then let them decide. I won't force my ideas on them, as I've said, it's about free will.

You hate it when people make decisions for you and therefore you will take your child both to church and religious lessons in order that he can make an unbiased, balanced decision......priceless

[UCAbears]

That's really sad. You know there is a god, yet he doesn't do anything, he doesn't say anything, he doesn't show up, he doesn't do shit. Either that or he isn't actually there. The fact that a book written, interpreted and translated by people speaks for itself. It's not a god you worship, it's the bloated ego that blocks the facts from reaching your brain.

Spoken like a true non-believer. God does talk, you just have to be tuned to the right station, you can't say he doesn't do anything either you just have to watch the signs. You can ask anyone that knows me, believer or non-believer, there is absolutely nothing wrong with my brain.

Does he talk? Do you hear him speak? Why would it be in English? If its not words you hear, how do you know its god? This is the same load of bullshit which claims that the sun stopped in the sky at one point. Literally. Impossible.

because he speaks to us through the bible and everyday signs.

[Neoteny]

That's really sad. You know there is a god, yet he doesn't do anything, he doesn't say anything, he doesn't show up, he doesn't do shit. Either that or he isn't actually there. The fact that a book written, interpreted and translated by people speaks for itself. It's not a god you worship, it's the bloated ego that blocks the facts from reaching your brain.

Spoken like a true non-believer. God does talk, you just have to be tuned to the right station, you can't say he doesn't do anything either you just have to watch the signs. You can ask anyone that knows me, believer or non-believer, there is absolutely nothing wrong with my brain.

Does he talk? Do you hear him speak? Why would it be in English? If its not words you hear, how do you know its god? This is the same load of bullshit which claims that the sun stopped in the sky at one point. Literally. Impossible.

because he speaks to us through the bible and everyday signs.

Hey, the last big post (pg 44-45) says no Bibles. And most signs I see everyday say "STOP." I usually do.

[UCAbears]

That's really sad. You know there is a god, yet he doesn't do anything, he doesn't say anything, he doesn't show up, he doesn't do shit. Either that or he isn't actually there. The fact that a book written, interpreted and translated by people speaks for itself. It's not a god you worship, it's the bloated ego that blocks the facts from reaching your brain.

Spoken like a true non-believer. God does talk, you just have to be tuned to the right station, you can't say he doesn't do anything either you just have to watch the signs. You can ask anyone that knows me, believer or non-believer, there is absolutely nothing wrong with my brain.

Does he talk? Do you hear him speak? Why would it be in English? If its not words you hear, how do you know its god? This is the same load of bullshit which claims that the sun stopped in the sky at one point. Literally. Impossible.

because he speaks to us through the bible and everyday signs.

Hey, the last big post (pg 44-45) says no Bibles. And most signs I see everyday say "STOP." I usually do.

Ok sorry. Would you call it theoretical signs? I'm sure you know what im talking about. Not literal signs.

[Neoteny]

That's really sad. You know there is a god, yet he doesn't do anything, he doesn't say anything, he doesn't show up, he doesn't do shit. Either that or he isn't actually there. The fact that a book written, interpreted and translated by people speaks for itself. It's not a god you worship, it's the bloated ego that blocks the facts from reaching your brain.

Spoken like a true non-believer. God does talk, you just have to be tuned to the right station, you can't say he doesn't do anything either you just have to watch the signs. You can ask anyone that knows me, believer or non-believer, there is absolutely nothing wrong with my brain.

Does he talk? Do you hear him speak? Why would it be in English? If its not words you hear, how do you know its god? This is the same load of bullshit which claims that the sun stopped in the sky at one point. Literally. Impossible.

because he speaks to us through the bible and everyday signs.

Hey, the last big post (pg 44-45) says no Bibles. And most signs I see everyday say "STOP." I usually do.

Ok sorry. Would you call it theoretical signs? I'm sure you know what im talking about. Not literal signs.

I was being sarcastic. I've been told that my tone (particularly in text messages) is hard to discern. I apologize if that is the case. I knew what you meant.

[Backglass]

Personally, I'd rather let my children learn the same way I did. Go to religion classes, then decide on their own. I hate it when people make the decisions for you, or tell you what you have to do. As far as religion, I will tell my kids everything I know, have them go to church for a few years, then let them decide. I won't force my ideas on them, as I've said, it's about free will.

Bullshit. You are indoctrinating your kids now and have been from the day they were born. Maybe a manger in the front yard during christmas? Grace before the meal? A few stories about "baby jesus"? You are making them go to "religion classes"? Muslim classes maybe? I think not. Yes you are certainly letting them make their own decisions.

If you really want your kids to make their own decisions, leave them alone until they are adults instead of brainwashing them from birth like you were.

If you want to teach your kids to be christians, fine. But don't delude yourself into thinking they just happened to choose it on there own 18 years later.

[Bavarian Raven]

i like how they brainwash u from birth...

[Carebian Knight]

Personally, I'd rather let my children learn the same way I did. Go to religion classes, then decide on their own. I hate it when people make the decisions for you, or tell you what you have to do. As far as religion, I will tell my kids everything I know, have them go to church for a few years, then let them decide. I won't force my ideas on them, as I've said, it's about free will.

Bullshit. You are indoctrinating your kids now and have been from the day they were born. Maybe a manger in the front yard during christmas? Grace before the meal? A few stories about "baby jesus"? You are making them go to "religion classes"? Muslim classes maybe? I think not. Yes you are certainly letting them make their own decisions.

If you really want your kids to make their own decisions, leave them alone until they are adults instead of brainwashing them from birth like you were.

If you want to teach your kids to be christians, fine. But don't delude yourself into thinking they just happened to choose it on there own 18 years later.

1. I don't have kids, I'm 15.
2. If I didn't take them to church and religious classes, they would never go and never care. Either way I do it, their decision would be based on what they've learned in the past, So make them go to religion classes, about 7 years. Then don't make them go for 7 years. This puts them at 18, they can make their decision then. They've spent time in both, they can decide which is better.