Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

[Beastly]

It's not a pity party, and it is very immature of you to state that. It doesn't matter how many people pity whoever, IT has to do with people like you who don't know anything, you come into a thread with a topic directed towards believers, and try to prove there is no God...But you have no evidence..

All you want to do is show your ignorance, and lack of a spiritual life.

[comic boy]

It's not a pity party, and it is very immature of you to state that. It doesn't matter how many people pity whoever, IT has to do with people like you who don't know anything, you come into a thread with a topic directed towards believers, and try to prove there is no God...But you have no evidence..

All you want to do is show your ignorance, and lack of a spiritual life.

And your not ignorant for saying the same as I did.



It is extraordinary that you think that a lack spiritualism is some form of weakness when it is in fact entirely the opposite. Unlike you I am content with the material world and am happy to live with the tangible, your need for an emotional crutch is understandable but it most certainly is not anything to boast about.

[satanspaladin]

Faith is a wonder full thing to have ,if it gives you comfort in your life
and helps you deal with the wold .

But when it becomes dogma and you can not see past your belief to
the exclusion of all other ways of living then to me it is just a dangerous
obsession.

I feel that religions do have a vital role to play in the world today,
just not the teachings of a higher being .

But in the bringing of hope to mankind,that one day we all may evolve to the point that no mater what happens to us after this life as long as we just try to improve life for every one on this planet in some small way
we have not wasted the life we have now.

[comic boy]

Faith is a wonder full thing to have ,if it gives you comfort in your life
and helps you deal with the wold .

But when it becomes dogma and you can not see past your belief to
the exclusion of all other ways of living then to me it is just a dangerous
obsession.

I feel that religions do have a vital role to play in the world today,
just not the teachings of a higher being .

But in the bringing of hope to mankind,that one day we all may evolve to the point that no mater what happens to us after this life as long as we just try to improve life for every one on this planet in some small way
we have not wasted the life we have now.

Very well put indeed

[Beastly]

It's not a pity party, and it is very immature of you to state that. It doesn't matter how many people pity whoever, IT has to do with people like you who don't know anything, you come into a thread with a topic directed towards believers, and try to prove there is no God...But you have no evidence..

All you want to do is show your ignorance, and lack of a spiritual life.

And your not ignorant for saying the same as I did.

No because I was not copying anyone, and I was not talking for the conscience of the whole, by saying WE think you are pitiful. If you read my posts I define why! I also explained further that this thread is not for you to come and disprove there is a god,

Why don't you disprove it to people in another thread? without throwing immature insults.

This is not a thread saying State why you don't believe! is it? so bugger off.

[comic boy]

It's not a pity party, and it is very immature of you to state that. It doesn't matter how many people pity whoever, IT has to do with people like you who don't know anything, you come into a thread with a topic directed towards believers, and try to prove there is no God...But you have no evidence..

All you want to do is show your ignorance, and lack of a spiritual life.

And your not ignorant for saying the same as I did.

No because I was not copying anyone, and I was not talking for the conscience of the whole, by saying WE think you are pitiful. If you read my posts I define why! I also explained further that this thread is not for you to come and disprove there is a god,

Why don't you disprove it to people in another thread? without throwing immature insults.

This is not a thread saying State why you don't believe! is it? so bugger off.

Must I keep asking you to quote these ficticious insults of mine !
Yet again you resort to abuse, you really must learn to control yourself when you feel your fantasy existence threatened. As you are not yet a moderator you can please stop telling others what they can or can not comment on, I understand that name calling is frowned upon though so maybe I better alert somebody about your hysterical reactions. We really dont want you to have another breakdown , there are only so many fables and myths for you to take solace in.

[unriggable]

Beastly, you're such a bitch.

[muy_thaiguy]

Well, this was sidetracked quickly, again.

[silvanricky]

This is not a thread saying State why you don't believe! is it? so bugger off.

I'm still listening then. Just ignore people who are obviously just trying to get your goat. If you make good points I'll concede, but if you come back with some statement like love the sinner not the sin then I'll call you on it. Fair enough?

[Backglass]

I didn't say you were stupid??? I said I pity you...

As I do all adults who still believe in fairy tales.

Having Pity on you, should not insult you unless you feel there is a reason for that pity.

Not insulted in the slightest. These debates make me laugh.

I pity that you live your life with no spirituality...No matter what differences there are with different beliefs, We all... Got that there is something bigger than us!

No we all don't. It sure would be nice wouldn't it? We don't have to die and we live forever! With marshmallow dreams and tangerine skies! It would also be nice if the tooth fairy existed. FREE MONEY from a FAIRY! And Santa Claus! Gifts for everyone from a MAGIC SACK!

I prefer an adult life based in reality.

(BTW, I actually HAVE a Magic Sack but thats another thread entirely. )

If you don't believe there is nothing more powerful than you, then you are a AntiChrist.

Ummm...OK. Call me what you want, but I don't believe in magical gods OR magical demons. This is it choochy!

And you will never have what I got. And you don't even know what that is, because you choose not to seek out what you believe.

I don't need the crutch, thanks. Unlike yours, my life is damn good without the need for make believe.

I also lived a Godless life as a unbeliever, and Now I believe, I can tell my life is more enriched, blessed and I am not worrying about if there is a god or whatever you want to call it..

I believe you 100%. Good for you for enriching your life. Some people do it with Yoga. Some people start jogging. Some do charity work. You chose to believe in magic. Whatever works for you.

I do indeed believe in Miracles.....

I truly believe you do.

I believe that God intercedes on our behalf. I don't know how it works, but most people that have miracles asked for them. Knowing that God wants them healed. God, doesn't want his love ones to Lack for any good thing. He wants us to relieve all! Death is for everyone!!!!!!

Now, now you are getting all worked up. Take a deep breath and RESIST the EVIL temptation that IS the exclamation point!

Your magical god wants all these things, YET he hides in the shadows, nobody ever see/hears it and when by happenstance something comes your way you immediately attribute it to "him". Much like Jay and his well known TV Healing. Millions of people watching. Preacher says "ONE OF YOU is receiving a MIRACLE right NOW!" One persons cancer goes into remission spontaneously. It MUST be GAWD!

if we lived without sin, we would never die. What causes that Cancer, what causes the diseases. And don't tell me God created sickness and disease, because you can't back it up and prove it to me, and your the type that has to have evidence, and you cannot possible prove that statement.

Such a massive double standard. "Just look around! Can't you see the beauty everywhere? How can it not have a creator"....but that cancer? the famine? the death? the pain? the suffering? THAT wasn't created by GAWD."

Such selective bullshit.

Here is your recipe and you will most likely say "YES! Thats it!".

• "All things Good"? = Magical god made it.
• "All things bad?" = Magical god did not make it...but we don't know who.

Am I close?

As far a "supernatural winged serpent." have you ever read and studied the orininal writings of what you speak? Hebrew? Greek? Who wrote that in the bible??? what language was that? And what did it really say? The example is good enough, why would I base my faith on 1 word? Like a supernatural winged serpent. I have never even seen that before, where did you see that word?

The Aztecs believed that the earth was ruled by a magical winged serpent. You are worshiping the wrong god. The Aztecs were here before the christians so they must be correct!

What? Never mind that nobody has ever SEEN this magical winged serpent. It doesn't dance like a puppet for you! It wont bow to your demands and show itself! It is a GOD! It is real...just as real as your magical god.

You see, you are full of ignorance, and that's not a flame, IF you are not a studier of something you don't believe in, then you are ignorant in that subject. Not that your stupid... Just you haven't studied what you are so against.

. I am not "against" anything. I just don't believe in magical supernatural creatures from the great beyond...unlike you.

BUT YOU!!! You are full of ignorance of Leprechauns. Have you STUDIED THEM? How can you claim they do not exist? You are full of ignorance because you have not devoted your life to our little green friends. If you would take the TIME to actually let them into your heart you would be filled with such JOY...and POTS-O-GOLD! But since you hate them so due to your disbelief you will never reap the joy of these tiny miracle men.

I pity you!

And cultists never cease to amaze me with their rationalizations.

[I GOT SERVED]

You all need to read this.

Haha, you're funny aren't you?

Just trying to lighten the mood a bit.

[MR. Nate]

Jesus Freaks,

Are any of you familiar with the concept of the rapture? I have finished the books of John and Romans now. The old testament got kind of boring so I'm taking a break from that. Now I'm reading Thessalonians and when I got to chapter 5 I was obviously a bit confused. After talking to some Christians that I work with they explained that there's a prophecy about when God will finally deal with the entire world's wickedness. It's supposed to last for 7 years and it will begin with something called "rapture". I guess all the true believers in Christ will disappear and go to heaven while the earth goes through 7 years of hell so to speak.

Do any of you believe in this prophecy?

Yeah, I do, and here's why:
The book of Daniel is so accurate that anyone who denies predictive prophecy has to date it about 400 years later than they want to, to account for the accuracy of it's prophesies. Some of the later prophecies are unfulfilled, and lend credibility to the rapture view.
The alternative view within Christendom is that the world will get better and better and more Christian until finally, Christ comes to earth and rules physically. I don't see that happening.
Ultimately, it become very difficult to reconcile a lot of prophecies without accepting the rapture.

If anyone has done research on this, I'm only barely dispensational, so don't ask me to defend that system.

[CoffeeCream]

The book of Daniel is so accurate that anyone who denies predictive prophecy has to date it about 400 years later than they want to, to account for the accuracy of it's prophesies. Some of the later prophecies are unfulfilled, and lend credibility to the rapture view.
The alternative view within Christendom is that the world will get better and better and more Christian until finally, Christ comes to earth and rules physically. I don't see that happening.
Ultimately, it become very difficult to reconcile a lot of prophecies without accepting the rapture.

If anyone has done research on this, I'm only barely dispensational, so don't ask me to defend that system.

I appreciate your honesty. Ambrose also told me that he didn't know the answer to another question of mine. It's refreshing to see you admit this. As I see it, there's nothing wrong with not being an expert on every single detail of your faith or else it wouldn't be a faith to begin with.

I must admit that this concept of a rapture is pretty scary if it is true. Others have told me that this tribulation period after the rapture will be God's final effort to get his message through to men, but then others say it's all going to focus on Israel. Not sure if Armaggedeon happens at the beginning, middle, or end of this 7 year period.

I have come to the conclusion after reading that if the Bible is true then I have indeed offended God with my sins. I can't deny that I've done bad things. I'm just not sure if I believe that Christ is the answer to forgive them. I know what you Christians are going to say to that, but it's not a very easy thing to figure out.

[got tonkaed]

its been a while, but i was under the impression that there were three major interpretations to the rapture idea of varying degrees of belief among some more current believers.

1) the tribulation view which i think most rapture oriented believers believe in, the idea that it gets worse before it gets better

2) was the world gets better idea that nate suggested, in a way that Jesus would not come back until history had fufilled itself in a lot of ways already

3) (most hazy) some notion that tribulation would start and that part of the way through Jesus would rapture believers away.

I guess the noncritical part of me wonders about number 2. If your gonna make the world fix itself in a lot of ways before you start the millenial kingdom...why is it then you rapture away the believers once they finally get it right?

[unriggable]

I thought the rapture was invented by the guys who made the 'left behind' series.

[unriggable]

I just realized, does God have one hand? 'The hand of God' implies he has only one hand.

[Guiscard]

I just realized, does God have one hand? 'The hand of God' implies he has only one hand.

Nah. Isn't jesus on his right and the spirit on his left? Or something...

[viperbitex]

Backglass, I think I love you.......

You know, I cannot think of one single act of kindness that "God" ever did in the bible. He was actually a pretty sadistic dude. Jesus was a good guy though, his character in the book did all sorts of good stuff.

G-Dog though....not so much

And can someone please explain the dinosaurs?!?! This question is for those who believe in the Bible, why the heck did God create those darn thunder lizards??

[Neoteny]

You know, I cannot think of one single act of kindness that "God" ever did in the bible. He was actually a pretty sadistic dude. Jesus was a good guy though, his charactor in the book did all sorts of good stuff.

G-Dog though....not so much

And can someone please explain the dinosaurs?!?! This question is for those who believe in the Bible, why the heck did God create those darn thunder lizards??

For people to ride on... der.

[Mr_Adams]

Backglass, I think I love you.......

You know, I cannot think of one single act of kindness that "God" ever did in the bible. He was actually a pretty sadistic dude. Jesus was a good guy though, his character in the book did all sorts of good stuff.

G-Dog though....not so much

And can someone please explain the dinosaurs?!?! This question is for those who believe in the Bible, why the heck did God create those darn thunder lizards??

This is actualy very easily explained. God created the "thunder Lizards" as you say, because they were part of the creation, they did not go extinct when the flood came, rather they have shrunk. where do you live? I bet it's somewhere where there are lizards right? if those lizards were to be put in an artificial enviroment (It is belived that the atmospheric pressure of Earth was much higher, nearly doubled) After 7 or 8 generations, you would have very large lizards, or if you will, a Dinosaur.

My turn, how do you explain such things as pine tree trunks sticking upside down through "millions of years of soil"? Human foot prints INSIDE dinosaur foot prints? Animals who's skeletons are found in soil layers that are supposed to be millions of years before they "evolved"?

oh, and check out this picture I just found on the internet!

[Backglass]

This is actualy very easily explained. God created the "thunder Lizards" as you say, because they were part of the creation, they did not go extinct when the flood came, rather they have shrunk. where do you live? I bet it's somewhere where there are lizards right? if those lizards were to be put in an artificial enviroment (It is belived that the atmospheric pressure of Earth was much higher, nearly doubled) After 7 or 8 generations, you would have very large lizards, or if you will, a Dinosaur.

wow...I mean...wow.

I am utterly speechless because I know you believe this 100%. If this is what the masses believe, there is no hope for our country.

I thought the rapture was invented by the guys who made the 'left behind' series.

No. It is a song from 1980 by Blondie, regarded by many as the first mainstream song to feature rap.

"Cause now he only eat's guitars, GET UP!"

[MR. Nate]

Sorry to disappoint you CoffeCream, but I've studied this issue quite extensively. I was saying that the common outline of the dispensational point of view is not one I agree with, although I agree with their theology of the future. I'm more of the "If you don't know, than study" than the "take it by faith"

I must admit that this concept of a rapture is pretty scary if it is true. Others have told me that this tribulation period after the rapture will be God's final effort to get his message through to men, but then others say it's all going to focus on Israel. Not sure if Armaggedeon happens at the beginning, middle, or end of this 7 year period.

Armageddon occurs after the 7 years. It is the nations of earth combining forces to wipe Israel off the map. Christ appears and destroys those armies because they are in rebellion.

I have come to the conclusion after reading that if the Bible is true then I have indeed offended God with my sins. I can't deny that I've done bad things. I'm just not sure if I believe that Christ is the answer to forgive them. I know what you Christians are going to say to that, but it's not a very easy thing to figure out.

I'm not sure what you expect, but my reaction is pleasant surprise. I am curious if you think there is a better way, or if you're simply unconvinced of Christ.

its been a while, but i was under the impression that there were three major interpretations to the rapture idea of varying degrees of belief among some more current believers.

1) the tribulation view which i think most rapture oriented believers believe in, the idea that it gets worse before it gets better

2) was the world gets better idea that nate suggested, in a way that Jesus would not come back until history had fufilled itself in a lot of ways already

3) (most hazy) some notion that tribulation would start and that part of the way through Jesus would rapture believers away.

I guess the noncritical part of me wonders about number 2. If your gonna make the world fix itself in a lot of ways before you start the millenial kingdom...why is it then you rapture away the believers once they finally get it right?

The covenant view (2) doesn't believe in the rapture, they only accept one coming of Christ. the 3rd view is called mid-trib, and is generally considered a variant of dispensationalism.

I thought the rapture was invented by the guys who made the 'left behind' series.

Even the most liberal scholars will admit that at the very latest, it was invented by John Nelson Darby.

[muy_thaiguy]

Maybe I should reiterate from my last post, I believe it will hapen, but not in the way that certain people are brought straight to Heaven. Sorry if I wasn't to clear before.

[unriggable]

I thought the rapture was invented by the guys who made the 'left behind' series.

Even the most liberal scholars will admit that at the very latest, it was invented by John Nelson Darby.

Well you learn something every day (I am ashamed to have it be this thread).

[CoffeeCream]

I am curious if you think there is a better way, or if you're simply unconvinced of Christ.

To be honest it's because I would have to submit to a whole new life according to what I've been reading. Just don't know if that's possible for me. I would like to think I could be humble enough to do that but in all honesty it seems like a tall order.